BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..

Subject: BS: Alcoholic neophew detoxing on my couch..
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 11:32 PM

Hospital said he was ready to go to rehab, there is no rehab till tomorrow, so they discharged him anyway! What idiots, this is dangerous stuff! Any advice for overnight?

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic neophew detoxing on my couch..
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 11:43 PM

stay in the room with him, keep him well hydrated and watch out for seizures. If he seizes, call 911 and make them take him to the nearest ER because detoxing from ETOH ain't the same as detoxing from heroin or Cocaine. I've had friends do all three (at separate times and separate people) in my presence. Seizures are the largest risk as is dehydration.

Sending you all my love and admiration for your willingness to take charge of this vulnerable young man.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic neophew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 12:05 AM

Was he discharged with any medication from the hospital?

If he is on nothing, have you got any alcohol in the house that he can take if he starts to feel he is withdrawing? Assuming he can take it in, better that and start the re-hab tomorrow than a seizure.

Jon (who has been 999ed in due to a seizure caused by alcohol withdrawal)

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic neophew detoxing on my couch..
From: Janie
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 12:07 AM

What Dave's Wife said. If he is in fact, medically detoxed, he should be ok, medically speaking. (which is different from being a happy camper and also different from feeling well or being peasant to deal with, physically.) If he was not sufficiently medically detoxed before discharge to be medically stable, and there are any signs of seizure, psychosis, or other detox symptoms you are concerned are life threatening or which you simply are not physically or psychologically equipped to deal with, call 911.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic neophew detoxing on my couch..
From: Beer
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 12:08 AM

Dave's Wife, if I may say thank you for the advice for Mrrzy as I was lost in wanting to give help. You obviously know what you are talking about and I'm sure that your post will help.
Mrrzy, hope you can get a little sleep and wish you better times ahead.
Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic neophew detoxing on my couch..
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 12:15 AM

If he has not had any ETOH in at ;east a few days and is not already vomitng and shaking, I sure as hell wouldn't advise starting THAT all over again. We don't know the circumstances and we don't know if the hospital just "turfed" him to you to open up a bed. If he has not genuine;y been medically detoxed, he should not have been released but in the USA, they drop withdrawing addicts in their hospital gowns at bus stations and occasionally at an all night eatery near my home. Soooo.... that said, we know very little.

If he is on the couch, have him rest elevated so he cannot aspirate on his own vomit and make sure somebody is with him until morning as in sitting in a chair nearby. Unless you are a medical professional, you should not have been left with this. This is 1970s style stuff. If he begins have symptoms that alarm you or if he becomes combative and wants to leave - please, put him back into the systems hands by calling for an ambulance and always state you are unqualified to deal with this and you are worried for his life. That often works.

With a little time, he'll be in a facility better equipt to handle this. Take care and again, bless you for caring so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic neophew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 12:19 AM

I'd agree Dave's wife and perhaps missread the first post - perhaps the rehab is a follow up from a completed detox.

When I posted my message, I was reading it as if he had been booked in for the detox but then turned out, perhaps with nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic neophew detoxing on my couch..
From: Eiseley
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 12:52 AM

Give him water, if he'll drink it, and keep him warm. He may not have much resistance to a cold or any other bug right now, so blankets are good, maybe a hot water bottle. He'll probably be pretty trembly and weak. If he is hungry, some light food like applesauce or toast, but nothing heavy or fried---if he's been on a mostly liquid diet, his digestive system is probably quite shaky.

If he is talkative, listen, but he may or may not remember anything you say, so it probably won't help much to delve into any kind of heavy topics. Therapy can begin in rehab, it doesn't need to start on your couch.

Good wishes during this hard time.

Eiseley

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:20 AM

most alcoholics lack vitamins, as a result of them generally not eating properly,I do not claim to be an expert, but I would suggestSMALL QUANTITIES of vitamin b and vitamin c tablets, and perhaps Echinachea to help the immune system.
small quantites of Epsom Salts, EPSOM SALTS CONTAIN POTASSIUM AND MAGNESIUM and according to some articles i have read are supposed[along with vitamin c] to help prevent or alleviate delerium tremens.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Amergin
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 07:09 AM

I don't have any advice for you, Mrrzy...but I'll keep you and him in my thoughts tonight....

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:54 AM

Perhaps the thread title is causing some confusion?

Detox generally means the process of getting a person through the physical difficulties of withdrawal from ingestion of something. The hospital apparently believed that he's past the point of physical/medical (toxicity) withdrawal symptoms.

Rehab is generally the process of teaching the person how to resume a functional existence without recourse to the poison that put him/her in the hospital for detox.

If the person isn't safely through the immediate physical problems of withdrawal, no competent professional would expect them to be ready for rehab. It's pretty much a requirement for beginning rehab that the person be physically functional and able to participate in therapeutic treatment that's mostly psychological and educational.

If you're concerned about the need to do anything beyond providing a place for him to rest until he "goes to meeting" tomorrow, you're best move now might be to look up the phone number of the local AA (Alcoholics Anonymous to be perfectly clear) and have it handy. If you feel that it's needed, many groups have people on call 24/7 for "emergencies," and if you think you might need advice you might call just to see if they're open "after hours," and if they are you can inquire about what immediate advice they can offer.

An alternative, if you know one, would be to contact a friend or acquantance who's an active AA practicioner. (The difficulty with that is that you're not too likely to know who they are unless you're also a member.)

Your contact with AA doesn't obligate him to go that route for his rehab, but it is a resource that you can use to get him through anything that might come up before he can get started on whatever plan he has for his rehab. The active members there are all likely to be quite knowledgeable about what he faces, since they've all been there or they wouldn't be members. The ones who will answer the phone will be those with an interest in helping others with the same problems they've had.

It would be a lot better for you to take advice from someone actively associated with many persons who've faced your nephew's situation in your own community than to take random advice from any of us here who can't see and assess your immediate needs.

Some of us may have experience that can be helpful, but we're not close enough to be of immediate help.

We can (and do) send good wishes, but can't help lift and carry or whistle up the hounds where it will do you much good.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 10:39 AM

I knew of one alcoholic who replaced one addiction with another,he took up smoking cannabis.
The result was worth observing, he became much less aggressive,His liver and kidneys suffered less abuse although the abuse to his lungs increased, However he became an easier person to interact with.
The problem for some alcoholics might be learning to cope with an addictive personality.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Amergin
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 10:43 AM

I've known alot of alcoholics who replaced their addiction with AA....and while it was not physically damning...it was detrimental to them socially...as they pretty much cut off ties with anyone who wasn't in the program...it was like they had a cult mentality.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 10:45 AM

Having dealt with an addict and his addiction as well as helped others do the same, my first advice is take care of yourself. If he manages to find a drink, toss his ass out at once. If he steals anything toss his ass out.
The tendency for an alcoholic on his way into rehab is to have one last fling.
Take care of yourself and your own first.
Harsh but real advice.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 10:48 AM

I agree with SINSULL. Watch him and be prepared to call your emergency services in the event he has an episode.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:06 AM

The tendency for an alcoholic on his way into rehab is to have one last fling.

Really????

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:19 AM

Oh my gosh how sad, you are in my prayers. I hope he does well. It is heartbreaking when someone you love has such problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:27 AM

Mrrz, a hard but necessary line to teeter-totter on (for you) is that you want to respect his freedom/choices but you also have to remember that detox is just the start of getting the stuff out of the system and the brain not yet physically able to be in charge-- so keep in mind that most of what he says at this time will be the addiction talking, no matter how much it may mimic the person you know and value. Your best bet in that circumstance is to be sure his bodily needs are met and encourage him not to talk much-- by seeing to him briefly and then getting on with your own stuff and then checking back often. Stay detached and in your own reality-- busily nearby but not "in it" with him. The advice to contact AA people for onsite help is also good. They have seen it all and know how to do what is best as it comes up.

Also-- who has told you his status? Do you have medical talking directly with you.... or is this "I just need a bed today because..." "news" some maybe-more-complex reality filtered thru the nephew's perceptions?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:47 AM

Amergin, if he is to choose between spending his time with alcoholics who are getting their lives together and making a new start, and who are willing to help him do the same, and spending time with alcoholics who are still drinking themselves into oblivion, he is probably better off with the former even if they do come across to us as fanatical at times.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:51 AM

Here's hoping we get an update this morning saying Nephew has been thru Intake procedures at the rehab facilty. Bless and thanks to all people who kindly take in troubled people and see them safely to their next place of help. Without you folks, so many more people would never reach recovery.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 01:11 PM

Unfortunately, yes, Jon. But I am talking about court ordered or imposed rehab. That is where my experience has been. That is also what recovered alcoholics/drug addicts warn when advising a friend on how to proceed with helping an addict. Three in my office are dealing with it this week - helping friends and relatives between the hospital and rehab.
M

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 01:13 PM

One just discovered that his unopened newly delivered three month supply of antidepressants is missing.
Try to get a doctor to refill that without an explanation.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 01:33 PM

The Adele Davis Stress formula realy helped an alcoholic in our family. Sorry I don't have a recipy for it here. I'm not at home right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 02:15 PM

I'd guess that could be different then Sinsull. In my detoxes and one follow up stay/rehab, I've not been aware of that. I did come across one who while in hospital on a chlordiazepoxide detox had a mate smuggle alcohol in and I heard of another case of smuggling from someone on the rehab program but I've always been under the impression most want to get through these stages without complicating matters.

Personally, I have found the hardest is when I get home afterwards. With me, it's not a craving for alcohol when life is running smoothly (days can pass without me even once thinking I'd like a drink) but what mental defences/coping strategies are not up to what little strength I have when things go wrong. I think it's quite a vulnerable period to get through. But we with drink problems are all different - there is no one standard type of alcoholic or single fixed solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 04:50 PM

Well said, Jon.

One`s too many and a hundred`s not enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 04:54 PM

Not for today or tomorrow, but for the rest of his life....
How to develop a new social group - one that does not drink. Maybe this is the major gift of AA. Meeting others who are committed to a non-alcoholic life style. I have spent hours with individuals who needed to find "something to do on the weekend". "I can't even go fishing! Everyone I go fishing with..."

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:13 PM

If he's squirrelled away three months supply of antidepressants he's planning suicide. And with many antidepressants he will succeed. If you can't locate them, you have a life or death emergency on your hands.

It's unbelievable that any hospital would discharge somebody in that state with that much medication. Might as well issue him with a loaded gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: maeve
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:26 PM

It's two different people; Mrrzy's nephew, whom we hope is now safely into Rehab, and a different person in a different country mentioned by Sinsull.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 11:50 AM

Whew, yes, he made it to a rehab place, and no, he wasn't detoxED already, he had only been in hospital for 24 hours, he'd gone in with a torn esophagus from over-barfing.... he had Librium, but nothing else.
That was a scary night. Thank you all, let's not do this again any time soon!

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: maeve
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 11:57 AM

Well done, Mrrzy. You've earned a rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: fat B****rd
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 03:12 PM

Good news, Mrrzy. I hope things are positve for you and yours from now on.
Best thoughts from Charlie.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 04:38 PM

Not a fun time.

Hope things get better.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 05:17 PM

If he had gone in with a torn esophagus, why did they release him before he had a chance to heal up? 24 hours is not enough and they could have begun a medically controlled detox while he was healing up. The whole thing sounds unethical.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 10:30 AM

Oh, unethical is right. Can you say, no insurance and in the US? They had originally been going to keep him for three days! Then he's out without a detox bed! Well, then. Now he's in a detox place for a week out of town, then he comes back to another inpatient place. He seems to be ready for the long haul, though... which is what it will take.
You got to walk this lonesome highway
You got to walk it by yourself
Ain't nobody else can walk it for you
You got to walk it by yourself...

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 01:36 PM

Have some decisions in place beforehand, such as what you will and will not accept in your house, because chances are he will appear on your doorstep. Best to discuss this while he is in a treatment place. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 01:02 AM

The above is a very good suggestion!

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 01:58 AM

adding my good wishes to those you & he already have

A self-help group like AA sounds very good (essential?) if medical treatment is limited.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 11:40 AM

Wishing you and your nephew the best, Mrrzy. He's lucky to have an aunt that cares enough to take him in and help him through this. He does have a long, difficult road ahead of him with few resources - but many have succeeded and pulled themselves out of a destructive pattern. He's young, which is in his favor. Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 04:24 AM

Mrrzy - bless you for sitting up with him after he was "turfed" to you.   Our system is broken and I know if first hand. Whether or not he will wind up with an AA type program, I can second the comment that AA'rs often now best how to keep a patient where they need to be whether that's in a treatment facility or in your living room. Calling them for advice is fine but the doctor who failed your nephew by putting his life at risk should be reported.

None of this is truly your job but I commend you for taking it all on. You must feel like a wrung out dish rag about now. Sending love to you and all the kind folks who find it in their hearts to care for society's unwanted and uninsured. Those who most need help in this our country are the ones who are most often turned away. I am so hoping this turns out with your nephew sober.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 10:13 AM

"the doctor who failed your nephew by putting his life at risk should be reported."

Let us keep in mind that everything the patient said needs to be verified before we set about ruining someone's occupation and reputation.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:28 AM

Hospitals, even private hospitals in the United States, are required to treat, even if the patient has no resources. One of the purposes of the new health care law is an effort to prevent hospital bankruptcies due to lack of reimbursement.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:30 AM

I was thinking about reporting them to somebody, myself. It wasn't the patient who told me about it, it was his Mom, who was furious. But she lives way out in the country so he really had to stay with me, if anything was going to go wrong better in the city and less than a mile from the hospitals.

He's out of detox and out of the inpatient after-detox thing, and is now in a half-way house; he seems pretty determined to get his life back together, but he's still only 22, so he has a lot of life left to either keep together or not... I do know that he's already looking at a job, so here's to kleeping our fingers crossed!

Thank you all for your support!

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:48 PM

finger crossed

wishing him the best health & good luck in his job search

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Max
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:04 PM

I believe in miracles. I started believing, without a shred of doubt, 2 years, 2 months and 18 days ago. I pray for your nephew, he has a hell of a fight on his hands. Winning that fight sure makes you feel like a bad motherfucker though, and if he can sustain that, and a tenacious desire to be awesome at life, he can win and be among some of the finest in the land. This here is the real crossroads. God spede.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:25 PM

Here in the UK we have Al-Anon, a branch of the AA for the partners, family and friends of alcoholics. It gives tremendous support for YOU and keeps things in perspective from YOUR point of view. Sometimes carers and families of alcoholics sacrifice almost too much of their own peace of mind and even safety, and this doesn't always help the sufferer. (I'm not for a moment suggesting this is what you do!) You'd meet other worried carers and get wise advice from those who truly understand. I can recommend Al-Anon, as a friend of mine attended for about a year and found it of tremendous value.

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:39 PM

He's doing great, I'm grateful to y'all for checking in with me. He has the better of his two old jobs back, not the one he just stopped going to, but the one he left under good auspices to take the other job... and it't at my favorite restaurant so I get a lot of info about him. He has a living situation with a bunch of other detoxed addicts of various substances which is supervised by the detoxers and has an absolute 0 tolerance policy, which he appreciates greatly. So I have hopes - he can stay there as long as he likes and is sober.
I'm thinking of a song but I can't remember it... if that makes sense...

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 04:03 PM

Great news, Mrrzy. Best thoughts for continuing success. Take care. Charlie.
Now, what was that song...?

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 04:19 PM

Sounds good! We need to keep sending him, and you, good thoughts.

Song? When things are really rough: "And the only reason I'm hanging around is to find out what in hell is going to happen next!" (Arkansas hard luck) There is always something around the bend but for now just whatever feels good - "Oh mister sunshine, wherever you are, that's the place I want to be... You chase my blues away!" (Chris Rawlings - chases my blues away.)

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 07:47 PM

definitely good news

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic nephew detoxing on my couch..
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 10:41 PM

So let the sun shine in
face it with a grin.
Smilers never lose
and frowners never win.
So let the sun shine in
face it with a grin
Open up your heart and let the sun shine in.

Good to hear the news.

Max, good for you. My son is working at it after some serious health scares because of it. He is doing some real good in learning to love himself and deeming himself worth salvaging, which is something we've been working on.