BS: The US lunatic right

Subject: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 04:46 PM

1.   http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/10/rick-santorum-wins-kansas-republican

2.   http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/10/america-war-on-sex-hots-up

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 05:47 PM

Yes.... we know.... this is by far the strangest election *I* have seen...and I remember back to Eisenhower/Stephenson, and voted for JFK in 1960.

Someday there will be doctoral theses written on how the far right-wingnuts got so much traction.

I have MY theories... namely that the Republicans proceed by pandering to several single-issue groups,(gun nuts, anti-abortionists, anti-tax zealots, ..and let's face it...racists) and this time some of those groups got semi-organized as the "Tea Party", which used the modern media to promote this "anything goes if we can beat Obama" movement. They felt 'empowered' by winning a bunch of seats in Congress and then......... when it became obvious that Obama was going to be VERY hard to beat, many of the half-way competent conservatives decided not to even try...leaving the primary selection to the strange assortment we now see.

   What remains to be seen is whether all these odd groups will 'hold their nose' and vote the "Anything but Obama" route. Most of us think not...and hope not...but we KNOW at least 40-45% would vote for Beelzebub if he promised to support their single-issue causes.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 05:59 PM

I think they will vote at the Repub convention and not select a nominee, so they will vote a second time and not nominate anyone. Before the third vote, a new guy will show up and everybody will immediately jump on the bandwagon for this new Republican-du Jour and that's who will be nominated. I can't figure out if it's likely to be Palin or Jeb Bush or Rush or somebody else, but it's going to be someone who falls out of favor just as fast as all the previous momentarily popular republicans... but they'll be stuck with their choice.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Bert
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 06:18 PM

Don't even think about another Bush, Jeri.

That's all America needs, another George III.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 06:23 PM

I think they all been sipping the coolaide ... I mean there is a wave of stupid running around this country and not just from one party either to fill several oceans ... bizarre is all I can say .. never saw anything like it and don't think anyone will again

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: gnu
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 06:25 PM

"and don't think anyone will again"

Wanna bet?

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: saulgoldie
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 06:57 PM

You know, I have a recurring thought. Yes, a thought. I know they are dangerous, but I can't help myself. I just think.

Anyway, my thought is...we *know* these people are fact-averse, logic-phobic, and rejecting of anything discovered by the scientific process. But somehow, somewhere we *have* to talk to them and help them see the error in their ways.

I am totally without clue as to how to do this. I mean, how do you lead someone through a fact-based logical sequence when they think that facts and logic are some sort of anti-Christ program? I don't even know what passes for logic in their paradigm. But until we crack the formula, we will have to accept this ninniness as part of the American political landscape.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 07:02 PM

The "compromise candidate" from an unlikely source was how Margaret Thatcher's favourite TV series "Yes Minister" transmogrified into "Yes Prime Minister. It's worth a watch.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 07:27 PM

The problem is (and I know this is oversimplification), they've elevated 'stupid' to a virtue --for voters, not necessarily candidates. They label the belief that all parents should be able to send their kids to college as 'elitist', they tell people there's something wrong with making health care affordable to everyone, that taxes are unnecessary and evil, they invoke people's fear of differences so Obama STILL might be a Muslim, STILL might not really have been born in the US, and if he was born in Hawaii, that's STILL not in the US--and the list of things is nearly endless--
and they have SO pandered to stupid people because they LIKE sheep, and stupid people raise more stupid people because education is, after all, elitist, that this is where we are now.

This is the grown-up generation of Jerry Springer-watching people who've jumped on whatever conspiracy theory fad is being reported by owned talking heads giving them the 'news', that people seldom think for themselves and actually question what they're being fed. So even the ones who might possibly be able to think have knee-jerk reactions and close ranks against the enemies of stupidity and falsehood.

It isn't that difficult to see through lies, but you have to look, and the people who do are not the ones who are likely to believe it in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 08:37 PM

Let's take a look at the Mississippi voters shall we? We need to remember that everyone who votes is not on the same page and as we sit around passing lofty gas back and forth there are other people, sort of, who are not all as enthused.

I tend to agree with James Carville. Lester Maddox once said that that what Georgia prisons really needed was better prisoners. Well, what the Republican party needs is better voters!   I mean take a look at the assholes involved in the circus car circular firing squad they have for candidates and then consider who in the fuck would vote for them!

What we need to remember though is just how much some of these people hate Barack Obama. Click here and then click videos at the top of the page. See the green house from March 9? Play that one....................


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 08:41 PM

All thru history, people have used the process of "placing the dart, then drawing the bullseye where they want it" to defend positions.

Any being that can comprehend 'logic' can also ignore it by substituting rhetoric, peer pressure, vested interests, superstition and plain old *fear* to help them make decisions.

As Jeri says, they have to look for truth ... and then be willing to act on truths that they don't like.

What ever happened to "The greatest good for the greatest number"?

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 08:47 PM

Mill lived in the ozone and Bentham died. It was a valiant attempt but foredoomed to failure.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: KHNic
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 08:58 PM

Mitt Romney lost out to Mc Cain, last election.
Mc Cain lost out to Bush.
The Republicans are now voting for a man who is not as good as the man who is not as good as Bush.
Says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 09:14 PM

What's interesting is that the Pub party is not sustainable in its current form. This single-issue/god-hates-liberals run party does not resonate with the average voter--even the ones who detest Obama. That's a huge problem. They may try to sneak Ron Paul in at the last moment and give him the nomination but that won't work even if they pull it off. The party itself has to change the way it thinks and does things--the individual candidates don't matter as they'll trumpet any party line to get the nomination, they don't care. But the current party line just isn't making it and has no relevance in the lives of the vast majority of Americans. The pub party is spending more than it's taking in and that is simply unsustainable. What I want to know is what is going to happen when it implodes which is inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 09:30 PM

The Repubs have attacked JFK, women, anyone with an education, etc, etc... As we speak they are trying to find a new group to piss off...

The are done in November and maybe forever...

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 09:41 PM

From this side of the pond , its a bit scary ! Its bad enough here in UK where we DO have a decent percentage of the population who are Passport Holders and DO travel to other countries , even if its only
to Spain for Sun , Fish and Chips and Roast Beef .
But even here we have people who dont seem to be able to think for themselves - Look at the Blessed Maggie = Buy your Council house and
you HAVE to become Right Wing !!
What percentage of US Citizens now have passports ? and even worse , how many have never been outside their STATE ??
All I can say is God (IF he Exists) help you all

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 10:00 PM

The right wing nutcases in America just made it illegal to protest. Somehow they forced Obama to sign the bill, the bastards. Just like they made him sign the bill that gives the military the authority to detain and kill me. The bastards. Hate those right-wing pricks. They made Obama keep the prison open at Guantanamo, over his objections, and now they're forcing him to start wars in Syria and Uganda, the bastards. They're making him spend billions for the election too, the bastards, because the country NEEDS him to keep Washington honest.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 10:06 PM

I don't read leftist shit, sorry. There just might be an agenda there. No more believable than the rightwing nutcases.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 10:06 PM

Now ya know who the FEMA camps are for. Anyone who protests.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: number 6
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 10:11 PM

The lunatic right is evolving into the Taliban of the U.S. ....good luck in November guys ... whew.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 10:18 PM

Left, Right, Left, Right

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: number 6
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 10:26 PM

good one 999 ... a lotta truth to it.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 10:37 PM

Put that together with Executive Orders for the past thirty or so years and America can be locked down tighter than a drum.

HR 347 pertains to government buildings or property where the president may be. However, that could be a town or city or anything so designated by government. The SS (interesting initials) is part of HS and Executive Orders already 'on the books:

""A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry." Congress can still attempt to block "by passing legislation in conflict with it" refusing to fund or enforce the law. Even with that the President has the power of the Veto. Congress can attempt to override the veto but that requires a two-thirds majority. Only two executive orders have ever been overturned.

Here are just a few Executive Orders that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President."

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: number 6
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 11:02 PM

And what scares me is that we are living next door to the country that can enact these orders. We are in the same situation as Holland in the late 1930's.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 01:45 AM

shoot piffle snort bollocks

Those are key words.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 02:05 AM

Well, I wouldn't put too much faith in that list of executive orders. If you Google them, you will find hundreds of copies of this list, mostly at right-wing scare sites. If you look a little deeper into what these executive orders actually are, they are generally just boring documents about carrying out the day-to-day functions of government.


This statement is particularly misleading: These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen.

According to the numbering system for executive orders, it appears these executive orders were issued by John F. Kennedy in 1962, which means they were signed by the President and put into effect then.

Executive Order 10990, for example, was signed by President Kennedy in 1962, and has to do with worker safety. Several of the orders mentioned have to do with disaster preparation, but they don't sound all that ominous when you take the time to read them.

Not to worry.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 12:18 PM

Whether left or right, they're full of conspiracy theorists and therefore not to be given the time of day. It's amazing the numbers of people I know who believe in chem trails. But the lunatic fringe knows one thing perfectly well: repeat a lie enough times and people will accept it as truth.

I still encounter people who think Obama's going to send his secret police into our homes to confiscate all our guns and then throw us into the secret camps that have been mothballed since the 40s or 50s or 60s--depending on which nutcase whose blatherings you happen to be listening to.

I got sick of the Executive Order bs after the nutcases told me that Clinton was going to use them if he got elected, and then it became if he get re-elected, then it became Bush I after he dared to use the phrase "New World Order" during a speech. What was funny is that they were silent when Bush II made Blackwater into the very secret police force they warned us about--but then the Bush administration had a knack for ruining people they didn't like so all the brave conspiracy nuts shut right the fuck up until Obama became president and it was safe to ooze out of the woodwork and start warning us all about what a Hitlerian dictator he is which only proves he isn't or they'd be shutting the fuck up like they did under the real dictator that preceded him.

Enough already, people.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 12:21 PM

Interestingly, in the home of the brave and land of the free - and free speech - what was planned to be Doonesbury's cartoon for tomorrow has been dropped by a number of US syndicators, and publicly attacked by Rick Perry.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 01:22 PM

Many of the ones who pulled it from their comic section are running it on their editorial pages. GT is doing a full campaign in the best traditions of "Doonesbury." If you don't get a paper anymore, bookmark the site.

HERE is the site with the strip in question.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 01:27 PM

The race to find a candidate who isn't Mitt Romney is being clearly being won by Mitt Romney himself.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 01:42 PM

Thanks, Spawz...

As for the Repubs??? I think they got sucked into their own hot-air turbine and are now hopelessly mired in bad karma...

I'm sure they are "banking" on Super PAC $$$ to save them from themselves come November and though that is a concern if that doesn't happen they have more than likely David Carradine'd themselves...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Stu
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 01:54 PM

Is there actually a left of centre political movement of any size at all in the US?

By UK and European standards Obama is still a solid right-winger, and I was wondering if any sort of effective left is left, or had they all been scared off by the right?

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 02:20 PM

What is unbelievable to me is the rise of voters and candidates (Santorum) who would destroy our secular system with separation of church and state.

The lunatic left also is alive and well, e. g., the posts by Songwronger and 999.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 02:38 PM

I can't seem to get that first link Spaw posted. I get to the front page of HBO and then I get lost. Can someone tell me where to go?

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 02:45 PM

gnu, I get as far as the Bill Maher page (HBO.com), but I don't know where to go from there.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 03:03 PM

Found it on YouTube

Mississippi voters....HERE IT IS ON YOU TUBE


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Amos
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 03:33 PM

If that's the part of the South that will rise again, we better start building a giant vulva...

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 04:17 PM

Back a few years back my wife and took a road trip down through Mississippi on Highway 61 .... Greenville, Vicksburg, Natchez ... met some wonderful people along the way ... black and white. That video clip does some injustice to the people of Mississippi.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 04:27 PM

I am sure it does, sIx, but it's still scarey. Especially the racism... disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 05:02 PM

Racism is disgusting and intolerable, but it isn't just found in the South gnu. The song Rednecks by Randy Newman comes mind regarding this. Look them up if you wish.

Anyway the whole US lunatic left/right is very concerning.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 05:26 PM

"If the federal government were run more like the government here in Mississippi the whole country would be a lot better off" - Mitt Romney.

I suppose it might be even more frightening to imagine a man who could say that being elected president, if you thought he actually believed it. On the other hand a president so deeply corrupted he could say something like that without believing it is a pretty terrifying thought.

The quote comes from this sobering piece in today's Guardian which reminds us that it really is possible that today's strange Republicans could still win - Obama is still in a hole. It may yet be deeper than his Republican rivals'

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 05:40 PM

biLL.....I lived in the south for quite awhile and although I can assure you that the clip is representative in some cases, it is certainly not in all. Additionally, that type of attitude is prevalent all over the country with people who don't realize that they should be bonded together with others because of poverty and not with the GOP.

Why do they vote GOP? Not just in Mississippi but in Ohio, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, New York and almost everywhere in the USA...........Why? I think the one guy made the point best......For reasons that most of us can't fathom, they believe that they will somehow get a better shake from the Republicans. Ain't worked for 'em so far....."but it might/could!"


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 06:01 PM

http://front.moveon.org/the-last-honest-republican/

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 06:15 PM

"On 30 January 1933 Adolf Hitler legally became chancellor of Germany. Although he initially headed a coalition government, he quickly eliminated his non-Nazi partners and ruled as the sole dictator. The Nazi regime restored economic prosperity and ended mass unemployment using heavy military spending while suppressing labor unions and strikes. The return of prosperity gave the regime enormous popularity and made Hitler's rule mostly unchallenged, despite a growing resistance that culminated in the failed 20 July plot in 1944. The Gestapo (secret state police) under Heinrich Himmler destroyed the liberal, socialist, and communist opposition and persecuted the Jews. The party took control of the courts, local government, and all civic organizations except the Protestant and Catholic churches.[3]"

That is not about Jews or the Holocaust. Any of the rest sound familiar?

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 06:43 PM

Peter Horton put together the following 25 questions worth 4 points each. 'How to recognize a civilized country.' Thought a few of you would find them interesting.

1. The military-industrial complex plays no role in government.
2. Religion plays a very small role in society, not forbidden, but not compulsory.
3. Scientists, teachers, nurses, artists, are all valued more than sports people and celebrities.
4. Speech is free and the media varied.
5. There are few if any guns.
6. The environment is cared for.
7. The government does not execute its people.
8. Women have full social and economic equality with men.
9. Minorities are not persecuted.
10. Sexuality is not a criterion for human rights.
11. Education of children is universal, free and secular.
12. Other species are respected, valued and protected.
13. Everyone secretly votes, every vote is openly counted independent of government.
14. Regulation protects people from giant corporations.
15. Other countries are not invaded, war isn't glorified.
16. Wealth is not a criterion for political success, or social worth.
17. Art and heritage are valued; literature, film and television increase in quality over time.
18. Natural disasters bring massive state support for the hurt and homeless and helpless.
19. The old, the sick, the disabled, are cared for.
20. The government tells the truth.
21. Public enterprise is as valued as private enterprise.
22. The courts and police are independent of politicians.
23. Unions flourish
24. The balance between life at work and life at home is a healthy one.
25. Aspirations are achievable by all.


I recognize some of you will say piffle. That's life.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 07:37 PM

I mark the USA at 2 out of 50 for that.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: John P
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 10:36 PM

We have two things going for us. One is that the Tea Party showed how bad they are at governing, and lots of people got turned off by them. The other is that the Republicans have very openly declared war on women. They are losing Republican women over that one, except for the theocrats. Women are more than half of our voters.

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 11:56 PM

Question: What country would score more?

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 12 - 01:12 AM

I mark the UK at 20

Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 12 - 01:14 AM

By the way, what do people think about Santorum's views on the governance of Mississipi - the poorest state in the union and with death rates for children on about a par with Botswana? If the rest of the USA was like that how many more children would die?