BS: Britons shall be slaves?

Subject: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:31 AM

DWP just won case over forcing job seekers to work 30 hours/week for no pay.

Story here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19146347

Discuss

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:32 AM

Sorry should be in BS Section

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:49 AM

Sounds like slavery to me.
(:-( O)=

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:50 AM

Ditto

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:59 AM

Of course they are not working unpaid. They receive benefit support which can include living allowance and rent and other stuff.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:07 AM

"Of course they are not working unpaid. They receive benefit support which can include living allowance and rent and other stuff. "

If there's a job to be done, then pay them a job's wages.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: meself
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 08:18 AM

"But one of the main providers of the programme, A4e, is currently the subject of a police investigation into allegations of fraud related to government schemes. In May, the government ended a contract with the welfare-to-work company."

Do you use the term "boondoggle" in the UK?

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 08:23 AM

"Of course they are not working unpaid. They receive benefit support which can include living allowance and rent and other stuff."

Well I get sweet fuck all - and that's after paying tax and NI for 44 years. If they ask me to work for nothing I'll tell them where to stick it.

You're right, Mr Happy, it's slavery all right. What has this country come to?

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 08:56 AM

'Well I get sweet fuck all - and that's after paying tax and NI for 44 years'


Moi aussi!

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 09:18 AM

i wish you lot would stop moaning.We have got the Olympics aint we..this generating billiions for the country. People are queuing up to get into this country. For all its faults they pay you to sit at home on your arses doing nowt.Why shouldnt you get out and do little for your food and rent and cheesy chips and gravy, mobile phones and sky telly etc...you have had it soft for to long..long live this government i say.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 10:47 AM

I hope this is satire. Is this 'Poe's Law' in action? I'll bite in any case...

"i wish you lot would stop moaning.We have got the Olympics aint we..this generating billiions for the country."

That's yet to be seen. If it does actually generate £billions, whose pockets will it end-up in, the taxpayer that forked out £9 billion in the first place? That's fairly unlikely.

"People are queuing up to get into this country. "

And yet London's tourism is down whilst Paris', Berlin's &c. is up. The expected throngs have failed to materialise in the way that were touted.

"For all its faults they pay you to sit at home on your arses doing nowt. Why shouldnt you get out and do little for your food and rent and cheesy chips and gravy, mobile phones and sky telly etc..."

Ridiculous argument. Part of the problem with 'workfare' is the way it's been sold. The 'voluntary' nature of it is incredibly ambiguous. The idea of doing a "little" is misleading as often people are working 30+ hours a week on these schemes, as well as having to meet JobCentre requirements regarding finding non-existent paid work*.

It's also often for far longer than is often believed, not the 4 weeks usually spouted by the government. There's a lot of rumours that mandatory 6 months periods of workfare will be announced in the Autumn. Also, workfare comes in various flavours: one of which (the one that a lot of disabled, long term sick, mental health issues &c are being pushed on to) is pretty much indefinite. Basically acknowledging most of them wouldn't find a normal job under normal circumstances but without employers paying them, not to mention a new benefit rate far below what they were receiving before.

Refusal to do any of these schemes can now lead up to as much as 3 years with no benefits at all. It's not even as if benefits afford the luxurious standards of living the right-wing press claim. A few minutes with a pen and paper will show that JSA minus gas/electric/water/food &c doesn't lend itself to a luxury lifestyle of plasma tellys, being in the pub everyday, takeways every night, having all the latest phones, foreign holidays and whatever else right-wing fantasists believe.

Even the idea about who are on these schemes is distorted. Often it's people that have worked for long periods of time already, perhaps all their adult lives. Other times it's people that have done as the government has said, gone to college, gone to university and still can't find work. This 'get them into a routine and out bed' bollocks, is just that, bollocks. As is the 'not looking for work' arguments: proof of job seeking has been required (and the lack of penalised) for a long time now.

Perhaps the worst of this is that even government's own studies have shown that having been on these schemes you're less likely to find a real job with real money than if you didn't. In the meantime, firms like A4E rake in £millions of taxpayer's money to do what the JobCentre &c. was already doing and the taxpayer gets nothing for it.

The whole thing is a scam. Any worth in the 'work experience' it provides cancels itself out. If 1000s of people have done exactly the same jobs in exactly the scheme in exactly the same shops (and it is mainly corporate, chain-based retail work) then the more people that do it, the less 'edge' or 'competitiveness' it provides. cf arguments about the worth of degrees the more people took them. As is the idea that it leads onto paid work at these places. How or why should it be the case when there's now an endless conveyor belt of workers that don't need to be paid? Some of the chains, like Holland & Barrett, that utilise workfare have reports of workers now unable to find overt-time, extra shifts &c because those times are now filled with unpaid staff.

It's a sop to Daily Mail readers with no real argument other than 'I work so they should too', neatly forgetting we're in economic meltdown where the private sector has failed to step in as promised.

"you have had it soft for to long..long live this government i say. "

Governments of the last 30 years or so have had it "soft".

Again, if there's jobs to be done, then pay job's wages.

*to pre-empt any 'them foreigners find plenty of work!' type arguments, it's worth checking out charities dealing with homeless East Europeans who are finding it difficult to find work in places like London, Manchester &c. Also, a lot of East Europeans are 'only' doing seasonal or temporary work before going home: think of 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in reverse.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:02 AM

Where can I get one of these Government slaves? I've got loads of housework they could be doing. Perhaps they are only available to them big firms that support the Government.

'Gaining valuable skills and experience' my arse! There's nothing that Poundland could teach you that would take more than half an hour. Except poor English skills. 'Everything's a Pound'. Its 'each thing's a pound', you pillocks.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,16 tons
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:30 AM

hmmm.. an effective legal Govt endorsed way of circumventing 'Minimum Pay' levels ???

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:31 AM

It's a typical tory ploy, force people to work for their rich friends for nowt, we call them ' slaves '

It's the same the whole world over,
It's the poor wot gets the blame,
And the rich wot gets the pleasure,
Aint it all a fucking shame.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:34 AM

Rule Brittania, Brittania rules the waves,
In the year 2012 Britons shall be slaves.

The person who wrote Rule Brittania must be spinning in the grave.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:36 AM

......& disabled people too!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19046447

They'll be re-introducing the Poor Law & workhouses next

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:44 AM

To quote another song, perhaps off topic.

'When will they ever learn......?'

The answer is never. It's part of human nature to exploit each other. Call it inbred greed, whatever you like, but it's there. That doesn't stop the nobler amongst us from trying to restrict it, but whatever we do it re-emerges elsewhere.

Defeatist Steve.

PS, didn't that nice man, Dave somebody or other, say he didn't expect his housekeeper to work for peanuts?

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 12:02 PM

Nice?

Man?

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:20 PM

If a recipient of benefits is able to work, I see no objection to requiring him to work in compensation for the benefits.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:22 PM

I thinkyou are all missing the point.These people are already getting morE.money for shirking than some people are for working.Why else can they afford the things i have outlined as well spending their days in the pubs and betting shops and their nights clubbing? How can we hope to achieve a fair society when this nanny statism is allowed to continue? Why is it fair when polish wokers come in their droves to do jobs work that these leeches on society refuse to get out of bed to do.? Iam all for a fair shake but some of these unemployable homineds can trace there unemployment. . Or lack of it back three generations.Let us see more fair play... Stop blaming the government...hard working employers who pay vast amounts of tax to float the boat... Andlets have less of this soppy sloppy thinking...work you slackers work!!!!

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:10 PM

[quote]
..hard working employers who pay vast amounts of tax to float the boat.
[/quote]
What fucking planet are you on. Employers are dodging tax through highly suspect offshore operations and sending our jobs to Bangalore.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:15 PM

'I think you all are missing the point'. That's how democracy works - the majority view is the one that prevails. I presume that you are presenting your views based on scientific study. I would dearly love to see the results of your work.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:23 PM

Oh no....!! Not that old pseudo socialist claptrap about tax evaders again.if you earn loads you pay loads.If you aint doing that you are breaking the law and if you know they are doing it, name names, else you are going along with this lawbreaking..put up or shut up "comrade"

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,thick as pig shit chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:33 PM

Oh yes....!! birch & flog all the lazy scroungers back into work !!!

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:34 PM

Research, forsooth!!! results of that is everywere.....your Hull for example Les..Bransholme, Orchard Park, North hull estate, cornbeef island.. wall to wall.dossers..wont work. Cant work cant make me and two fingers to the rest of us hard working stiffs...I rest my case...

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:39 PM

If you are not claiming job-seekers' allowance, they can't ask you to take such work.
This girl was doing voluntary work, but many young unemployed have nothing to get up for, and that is unhealthy.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:40 PM

"I thinkyou are all missing the point.These people are already getting morE.money for shirking than some people are for working"

Er no, stupid toryboy, it's you who is missing the point. You're talking total shit like the rest of your rightie crew - get out and find out what it's like in the real world. My son, having worked his balls off for 3 years to get a 2.1 at uni, comes out with a debt of over £20,000,to say nothing of the over £18,000 it's cost us and his grandmother, gets £57 a week - or would do if they ever got round to paying him as they're 6 weeks behind. He spends most of working hours applying for jobs, doing telephone interviews, attending face-to-face interviews and he still hasn't been able to get close to any job. So you expect him to go out and, in addition, work 30 hours a week at some dead-end job. Well, just fuck off you ignorant, selfish tory twat because it isn't going to happen.

Oh, and why not tell you useless, incompetent government to sortthe country out - probably by getting rid of useless thick scum like you.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:44 PM

"Nothing to get up for¨ my arseif we all had said that in 1939 we would now be living under the nazi ajckboot

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:56 PM

So just uninformed opinion then?

Incidently there are plenty of cases of tax evasion for you to research, both corporate and personal. And, I assure you, the amounts involved make the cases of benefit fraud (whic I also deplore) look like chicken feed.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 03:12 PM

guest sensible chap in my humble opinion is a troll just having a laugh
at us, lets face it no-one could really be such a cretin.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 03:35 PM

No cretin, no troll, just someone who is hardworking who probably speaks for the majority of hardworking people of this country... oh excluding those self rightouse pseudo commies who tossed it of at university for three years and then got a nice comfy job in management

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 04:35 PM

Well said leveller.

And as for Captain Sensible - you tell others to provide evidence - yet hide who you are. You say you work. I don't believe you. You are another adherent of the jackbooted scum who fraudulently claim yet accuse any of a different skin colour of parasitism no matter how hard they work. And accuse those on acres of hopeless jobless estate of avoiding work when there are no jobs for them to do.

If you want us to give you any credence, tell us your true name, your address, your job, and the name and address of your employer.

You and your clones know who I am and what I do. Don't hide in the shadows, coward.

Keith - if people are doing a job, pay them a proper wage. The workfare regime provides free workers to capitalists. Every such worker prevents another worker having a paying job. Even you can see that that is unjust. But it is also counterproductive as it reduces the velocity of circulation of money (to keep it simple for you I'll explain, the rich have a greater marginal propensity to save than the poor so extra money in the hands of the poor creates more economic growth than extra money in the hands of the rich) so reducing any tendency to economic growth. There is only one explanation: spite.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:41 PM

if you are out of work you get £65 ish pounds a week - food, heating bills and everything else. if you qualify for housing benefit your landlord will receive the bulk of it from the state. it is not a lot. we have 3 kids with degrees and they work hard -retail, child care, bar work -on very low wages- they have no realistic prospect of ever being able to afford to buy a house, have large debts and are destined to paying wicked landlords stupid amounts of money for the foreseeable. i have worked most of my life with some periods out of work. i now work long hours in a care job for just over the minimum wage. we have betrayed a generation of young people and carelessly thrown away the security of a properly functioning welfare state that, with a less aggressive capitalism, provided (nearly) everyone with a home and a health service-a job and some degree of security. those of you 'hard working' types who sneer at those less fortunate than yourselves and blame them for existing are beneath contempt. i would like to be able to ignore you -obviously you crave attention-and would want to feel compassion to everyone but here i am again, buttons pressed and wasting my time stating the bleedin' obvious for people not interested in even trying to think how life may be for others. far more benefits go unclaimed than are paid out as a result of fraudulent claims.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:59 PM

I think we need public works projects and would expect to be on one if I should become unemployed...in fact I am only 3/4 time and would love to just be placed on one for 1/4 time. If they are well managed, and this is a big if (but certainly some of the unemployed could be potentially good managers) we could use some of the same money we are now spending, supplement it so there is a reward, employ people, especially the chronically unemployed and those who have given up, those who are not competitive in today's job market..and solve all sorts of social problems at the same time. Parks need maintaining, children need daycare, elders need care, libraries need cleaning, trash needs picking up. These things are not sufficiently taken care of now and for the near future at least it is not taking away a union job etc. We need to screen of course, but many people could be chore workers for disabled etc... We need to have a group of adults and older teens who expect to work and provide for their families. I am for giving them as much support in this as possible..we need a high ratio of workers to people who are unable to work for economic and societal reasons...Hours could be flexible depending on person's vigor, age, health, activity in looking for jobs. Many problems are solveable. My family survived in the depression by doing public works and I would expect to do the same.mg

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:06 PM

mg - here in England the involuntary jobs are not additional work in the public sector. They are menial tasks in for profit enterprises. There is no justifying it.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:11 PM

unless you are born to wealth or are very lucky (and drop dead on your last day of work) at some points in your life you and your family will rely on the state. why support governments to dismantle it and discredit those who work for it and need it?

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:27 PM

They are menial tasks? I was hoping they were upgrades, training for different/better positions. If a clerk, say, is out of a job and has to go push a broom in some factory in order to qualify for continued unemployment support, I would agree most definitely that it is demeaning and shortsighted. If however, the clerk was put to work learning computer repair, for instance, I'd say that it is a step upward.

In the USA in order to retain unemployment benefits, claimants are required to actively seek work and if offered work that is comparable in skills and pay to what they had trained for or had experience in, they can be booted off the benefits.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:38 PM

Hmmm That didn't come out right. I was saying that if they didn't take the offered job they could be booted.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 03:32 AM

The sheme is, as with most of this incompetent government's policies, completely self-defeating. If someone is working 30 hours a week, what time left is there for them to look for proper work? This, as anyone who has actually done it will know, a full-time occupation. Thirty hours a week for the Jobseeker's Allowance of £57 a week is, as I'm sure even someone as profoundly ignorant as the troll GUEST: Stupid Twat should be able to work out, a fraction of the minimum wage. Perhaps said troll would like to change places and let someone more deserving enjoy his cushy little job whilst he tries to survive on a pittance. No? Thought not - typical tory supporter, all mouth and no balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:17 AM

Well, if you all are going to be offensive. Is that the way they teach you to argue st university. In a free society we are all.entitled to our opinionsyou lot are to smug and self centered to enter into proper debate.lets see your names abnd adresses and employers. You make me sick. I am a hard working labouring labour supporting person who does lots of unpaid voluntary work in my community. And just want to see some fair play that is all.seeing layabouts who wouldnt work even if it was hsnded on plate..and then sneer at us hard grafters makes mybile rise.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:18 AM

Just read some of the comments from our little troll friend above. Absolutely hilarious! He doesn't like unemployed people, doesn't like graduates, doesn't like managers, and anyone who doesn't share his right-wing views is a commie (not very original that, trolly). Poor chap has so many chips on his shoulder he should open a fish shop.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:23 AM

GUEST,sensible chap: " I thinkyou are all missing the point. These people are already getting morE.money for shirking than some people are for working."



Nobody is missing the point. Although, if anyone is, I think it's you. If people are getting more money for "shirking" than others are for working, you've identified a serious problem but picked the wrong target to whinge about. If you resent the amount of housing benefit that is paid - which, incidentally, goes straight to the landlord and recipients never actually see the money - then you want to question house prices and rents. Speculative buy-to-let landlords, high on 'property porn' TV, and governments over the last 30 years are to blame here not housing benefit recipients - the majority of whom are actually in work anyway. More housing, which is desperately needed, would sort this problem out. The problem is, home owners who are expecting massive returns on buying houses in the 1980s and 1990s, and maybe even the last decade, are unwilling to take the hit on any house 'value' following large-scale building programmes.

The real issue is not that benefits are too high, it's that wages are too low. The fact that working tax credits have ever existed is an acknowledgement of this, albeit a benefit that really supports/subsidises employers rather than employees.

"Why else can they afford the things i have outlined as well spending their days in the pubs and betting shops and their nights clubbing?"

Again, a nonsense. Sit down with a pen and paper, remove gas/electric/water/food/travel (necessary for job interviews &c)/phone (ownership of is expected at JobCentre &c) and see how much is left for "days in the pubs" and "nights clubbing" and whatever fantasy lifestyle you believe the jobless are living.

"Why is it fair when polish wokers come in their droves to do jobs work that these leeches on society refuse to get out of bed to do.?"

See my other post above. It's farcical to try and compare Poles and other Eastern Europeans to Britain's jobless. Many Poles themselves believe this myth that Poles can come here and find work on every corner. The fact that it isn't the case has lead to the creation of charities specifically for homeless Poles who can't find work or housing here. I have contact with Poles on a regular basis who are looking for voluntary work (hoping it will somehow lead to paid work) as they can't find paid employment in this country. The living/working conditions of many Poles in this country aren't 'do-able' long-term. Seasonal work is just that, and many contracts are temporary. The Poles in my town (and I know a fair few) literally live 6 or 7 to a single bed flat, squirrelling money away for short periods before going home. They don't expect to do it on a long-term basis as, long-term, they want flats/homes to themselves with regular, 'normal' work.

Also, if people don't have the skills that some Poles have and therefore can't do some of the work Poles do, then it's not necessarily the fault of the jobless either. A classic example is building work. A lot of councils ended their apprenticeship schemes in the late 1980s and starting tendering out building work to private firms which meant a traditional avenue for that kind of training was lost. This meant that local colleges then had to take up students wanting to go down that vocational training route. This created waiting lists of *years* to get on these kinds of courses. In the mean time, by the 1990s, businesses and government are telling everyone that computer-based skills are the new boom sectors so 'old-fashioned' vocational training is pared down at colleges. Years on, we're seeing a cull in ostensibly computer-driven office work (thanks to the government's 'non-jobs' narrative) and much IT/programming outsourced abroad. Since the 1980s loads of industries and employment areas have pretty much vanished in this country along with the training to do them and a lot of whatever was created to replace them is now going the same way (or at least to India). And yet, somehow, you still seem intent on blaming the unemployed themselves? Ridiculous.

"Iam all for a fair shake but some of these unemployable homineds can trace there unemployment. . Or lack of it back three generations."

For now, the numbers of generationally unemployed are very, very small. Practically neglible. Until the last couple of years, the amount of job-seekers out of work for 12 months or more was far lower than people most people expect.

"work you slackers work!!!!"

I see this kind of comment all over the internet. Yet whenever I ask anyone (of working age) are there jobs going at their place, no one has ever said 'yes'. Invariably, when people are pushed on this, either people are being laid-off or there's a recruitment freeze.

If people are to work, there has to be jobs. And if there's jobs, then people should be paid a living wage. Benefits aren't that.

Anyway, last post on this as you're either a troll or some 'just world' Randroid fantasist.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:26 AM

one day you will all wake up.....then you'll be sorry.

.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:27 AM

Leveller, Richard - absolutely spot on on all counts. Ignore Insensitive C**t, he's a windup merchant and a wanker. The best way to deal with wind-up merchants and wankers is to ignore them

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,ever been had?
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:33 AM

Got all you smarty pants going though didnt he?... And gave me some of the best laughs ever on mudcat. To see all you smug self rightouse so called intelligent clowns rise to his bait! !!
Come on people chillax lfe is hard enough. ..lets all have a little snigger now and thenat ouselves.. eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:34 AM

You're right, John. Haven't had an argument for days and was just getting withdrawal symptoms :) Pity it wasn't with a more articulate opponent.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:40 AM

There is a typically Mudcat-ian hyperbole in the thread title. I realise the aptness of the deliberately tendentious misquotation OK; but to denounce expecting or requiring someone to contribute a bit of labour in return for benefits received as "slavery" is an idiotic exaggeration and overreaction, and a gross discourtesy to those who have actually had [and in some parts of the world still have] to live in conditions of real slavery.

It might arguably, depending on one's pov, perhaps be regarded as a bit exploitative...

...but "SLAVERY"! Away you!...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:44 AM

tee hee...!

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:44 AM

I've a strong suspicion that trolls such as 'insensible chap' are in reality stooges of far right/govt propaganda orgs, who scour sites like this, hoping to promulgate their urban myths aka lies in order to try to discredit truths such as I've titled this topic

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,ever been had?
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:48 AM

Nah John..... You are reading to much into this...refer my early post.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:48 AM

Ah well, they say small things please small minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:52 AM

Yes...well..you have just proved that mr.leveller.....aint you?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:06 AM

The Jobcentreplus site has many questionnable 'jobs' on offer. My husband took up one last week. (Minimum wage, £6.08ph, part-time only to avoid various obligations on their part) It was a very shady 'hotel' (more like a dosshouse) Given a bottle of neat bleach and told to wipe out toilets with his bare hands using the handtowel in each room. Filthy place, demoralised and very young staff. The 'manager' looked like an extremely dodgy used-car salesman. My husband rang me and I came and fetched him away. These people know that the jobless will take almost anything, and they are, in one word, Exploitative. I feel that Poundland (and others) see the present economic climate as a jolly good way to get workers for nothing (or next to nothing). My heart went out to the poor little lass and a grubby lad (both coughing) who continued to trudge round with their bleach bottle and a clapped-out vacuum cleaner. We've gone back to Dickens in his blacking factory!

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:08 AM

"Why is it fair when polish wokers come in their droves to do jobs work that these leeches on society refuse to get out of bed to do.?"

OK, I give in! What's a "polish woker"? A worker who polishes woks ... possibly? Presumably, all the Chinese restaurants are experiencing a dire shortage of wok polishers (sorry - polish wokers!) and are having to bring them in from abroad. Surely enough British worker/shirkers could be found to do this for nothing?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:15 AM

Judging by the standards of written language in some've the posts, I'd hazard a guess that given proper investment & commitment by govt. there's real potential for workers in remedial literacy skills

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:31 AM

If you set yourself up as a judge of the language of posts, Mr Happy ~~

"Some of the posts".

"Some've the posts" is meaningless.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:46 AM

MtheGM,

Clearly, your English language skills are incomplete.

'Some've' is an accepted abbreviation for 'Some of' in the same way that 'I've' 'I'll' 'We'll' are accepted forms of written or spoken word

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:54 AM

Oh! By whom? Provide me with a respectable precedent, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 06:09 AM

Sorry, Mr Happy, but 'some've' is not an accepted abbreviation. The apostrophe should be replacing a deleted letter or letters. 'Some of' , no matter which letters one deletes, cannot end up as 'some've'.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 06:29 AM

OK, show me where it's not acceptable - btw you've succeeded in accomplishing thread drift!

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:09 AM

It is not acceptable in a post beginning "Judging by the standards of written language"; it is an error of written language, whatever you may say, Mr H.

Thread drift is scarcely unprecedented on this forum, is it? And it's you who have 'accomplished' it, not we, by persisting in arguing with Eliza and me over a matter in which we knew better. You still haven't furnished a respectable example of what you claim, inaccurately, to be a correct and accepted usage.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:14 AM

You shouldn't polish a wok. Isn't there an old Chinese saying something like 'the blacker the wok, the better the cook'?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:34 AM

I have not yet been able to find an authoritative source to justify my abbreviation.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:47 AM

Nor will you.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 08:03 AM

Why is there never an old Chinese around when you want one?

I think that there's a problem if you're trying to depict the colloquialisms and regional variations common in spoken English in writing. My English is, of course, impiccable.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 08:18 AM

i think i'm fairly good with punctuation and grammar an' that - used to teach the stuff. but i have learned it doesn't matter much as long as the meaning is clear. i choose not to bother with capitals -just lazy- but can a bit superior when apostrophes are misused. i think we are free to do what we want -if it annoys a few pedants, so what. incidentally, franglais is good fun a temps en temps. as texting is so ennuing i rarely ecrivez anything else sur mon phone. fin

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 09:49 AM

well it seems "sensible ever been had chap" [ 1 or 2 individuals ???]
has wanked himself off
into a frothy dribble mouthed state of ecstasy throughout all this.

From his first posts, this was quite obviously a 'troll porn' thread
for the poor sad little socially inadequate chap
to get his hairy palms greased up for.......

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 09:58 AM

This: 'Gaining valuable skills and experience' my arse! There's nothing that Poundland could teach you that would take more than half an hour.

And this: "The workfare regime provides free workers to capitalists. Every such worker prevents another worker having a paying job."

How come needful charities didn't get brought on board this scheme, arguably everyone could have benefited?

Lots of experience and skills to be provided for them as actually need it (geology graduates probably not being among them) as well as the rewards to the community of course; from administration, gardening, cooking, shop work, writing articles, counselling/befriending, to repair work, decorating, canvassing etc. you name it!

And yet this government would rather see claimants wresting dull menial jobs from already low-paid workers at Poundland..

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 10:22 AM

Back in the early / mid 80s
the Tories actually came up with quite a useful and intelligent scheme
to manipulate unemployment statistics in their favour.

"The Community Programme" or some such similar name.

Basic details I can remember..........

Clever dick unemployed students and arty musician types like me
were put in this programme
where you got paid about 10 quid more per week than basic sup benefit,
didn't need to sign on,
got a few extra perks, etc,
provided you committed to genuinely work set hours on a valid local 'community' project.

The downside was that the more politicised amongst us were aware
we were being used to replace
what should have been properly paid and unionised local authority workers.

But we were at liberty to work fairly autonomously with quite decent project budgets
that were great for setting up radical lefty community arts spaces, photography darkrooms,
music band rehearsal facilities, theatre groups,
etc type projects..

Great experience and life style when you were in your early 20s
and lived a very active alternative arty lifestyle in an inner city.

It was a year or 2 before the tories realised their mistake,
funding a breeding ground for youthful cukltural subversion & dissent,
and promptly shut down the projects and funding.
and put us back on regular sup ben regime

Anyone else remember this scheme ???

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 10:59 AM

What a beautiful piece of vers libre, pfr.

And what creative vocabulary ~~ I particularly warmed to the clunkiness of cukltural!

And what masterly enjambement at

"we were being used to replace
what should have been properly paid and unionised local authority workers."

Has any poetry magazine or anthologist shown any interest?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:05 AM

thanks for the flattery MtheGM..



I did pass English "O" level with a "B" grade back in 1975
It's all been downhill since then.

BTW, never in my life seen or heard the word "enjambement"..


I'm off to look it up - hope it's not too smutty....

oh ok, hope it is...

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:11 AM

... and I shouldn't really take full credit for " cukltural"

put it down to clumsy typing skills and my stubborn refusal to ger my eyes tested
for close up reading lenses...

Optician's fees are too good money that could be spent on guitar fuzz boxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:12 AM

World English Dictionary

Enjambement

— n
        prosody the running over of a sentence from one line of verse into the next

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:30 AM

yaWwwwwwwwwwwwn..........

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:34 AM

excuse me you boring farts...... I have knob to Polish

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:37 AM

Quite so, sensible. Is there, though, anything more yawn-inducing than those perverse boobies who proliferate round here, who post on threads with nothing to contribute, but for no other purpose than to denounce them as boring? So go & polish your wotsit, and I hope it keeps fine for you both...

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:57 AM

Why has he a Polish whatsit? Should it be returned to the Poles?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 12:15 PM

""'Some've' is an accepted abbreviation for 'Some of' in the same way that 'I've' 'I'll' 'We'll' are accepted forms of written or spoken word""

Sorry to spoil your day Happy, but you have actually shot down your own argument with a single bullet, "I've"!

It is an abbreviation for "I have"and so is "some've"
an abbreviation for "some have".

As in "Some've died in battle, and some've died in bed!", it is mostly used in poems, though I have heard it on many occasions in colloquial speech.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 12:19 PM

""excuse me you boring farts...... I have knob to Polish""

Onanism is nothing to boast about senseless guest.

Still, whatever turns you on!......Go on, go polish your knob, and enjoy!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 12:23 PM

.......as in the way some folk spell 'should've' as 'should of'?

Perhaps I should begin a new thread about literacy?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 12:38 PM

well you could,

but I'd guess too many of us are reasonably content enough
with our careless misuse of written English
to be bothered much with it on such a sunny day..

And why spoil the pleasures of correcting our dumb mistakes
which is a priority for a few more learned pedants & snidey snobs.


MtheGM is however excepted from my sarcasm
as he is the same age as my mum and I genuinely respect him
and enjoy his educated posts.

Mum brought us up to aspire to MtheGM's standards as a gent & scholar.

Shame I'm letting her down so badly, but there you go...


At least I am educated enough
to've resisted becoming a despicable resentful mean spirited tory lacky wage slave.......

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:37 PM

"That's how democracy works - the majority view is the one that prevails."

That's just not true. Even the minority of people who voted Tory voted for a party that swore blind not to do things it has done, and swore blind it would do things it hasn't done.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:26 PM

And it takes less votes to elect a Labour MP than it takes to elect a Tory.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 06:33 AM

the overwhelming majority of MPs on all sides of the house are pro-global capitalist tories (and/or Tories)there are millions of people who take a different view that is hardly ever expressed in parliament - well, one green MP maybe. i'm afraid until we disenfranchised folk organise ourselves properly and push for a real change then we britons will always be slavish.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 06:52 AM

Well, with luck it looks like Cable will scupper toryboy's gerrymander.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 09:40 AM

Sorry McGrath, I was thinking of a majority of people on this forum. Of course, politics stinks and you get stuck with them for the next five years. As we say round here 'they can make their gobs say owt'.

I just read in the latest Private Eye that David Blunkett gets 80k a year from A4e and News International, two firms under active investigation for shady work. And he's not even a bloody Tory.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 02:53 PM

Of course if it's in Private Eye it must be true.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 03:08 PM

There you go, smartarse Register of Interests David Blunkett

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: sapper82
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 04:24 PM

Wasn't one of the fears of William Beveridge, when he wrote his report that led to the foundation of the Welfare State, that we could end up making life on benefits more attractive than working?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 07:13 PM

are you suggesting that could be right? either you have had some really awful jobs or you are lucky enough to have never been out of work. on benefits you can exist but it isn't much of a life.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 05:13 AM

I truly believe that many people on benefits work 'on the side', sell drugs, commit minor theft etc because they are forced to by the total inadequacy of benefits to cover even the necessities of life. Even with all the additional 'help' such as housing benefit, no council tax to pay etc I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can pay for heating during a winter of minus ten degrees (here in UK), get about on public transport to find work or even to access the computer in a library for the notorious JobcentrePlus. Bus fares are expensive and there are no concessions for them. Even miserably basic food is quite dear, and charity shop clothes cost more than they used to. It reminds me of the philosophy of the introduction of the 19th Century Union Workhouses. Relief for the poor should be so miserable and untenable that they are forced to find work as quickly as possible. But where is the work? I'd love to see a politician live (not for a week, as on a TV programme) but for six months on benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 06:40 AM

The Beveridge Report was based on certain assumptions, one of which was full employment. It was the principle of less eligibility, as some seem to be suggesting here, that brought about the workhouse. At least there would be plenty of jobs created in building them!

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 07:00 AM

Only people who have never had the misery of trying to exist on benefits think it's more attractive than working.

Some years ago the then Tory MP Matthew Paris tried to exist on benefits for a TV programme, for one week, his conclusion at the end of the week was that it was impossible, but he wouldn't recommend paying them more, and that was after people in the North East who were genuinely existing on benefits treated him with kindness and compassion, what cunt he was.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 08:47 AM

so many brains...so little sence and humor...come on dudes.you wos more fun wen youa was abuseve

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 10:45 AM

I'll have some of what he's having...

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 10:52 AM

but he's having a wank !!!????

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 12:16 PM

or perhaps a heart attack...

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 01:33 PM

We have some old thought patterns that we need to break. Public works, despite our ancestral memories of workhouses, do not have to be abusive or horrifying or insulting to peoples' dignity. There is nothing inherently wrong about working in a greenhouse, a small dairy, a parks department, a library, a nursing home. I would gladly work any of those places in exchange for money a bit above welfare or whatever. I think itis something that we must plan for and expect for our own selves..there are ways of supervision and monitoring to eliminate most abuses, which we have frankly not eliminated from the regular job market. There are not enough jobs now it seems, probably never were, but there are people who are inadequately nourished, there are elders receiving poor care, there are blighted areas in every city. We can put the two together, offer people a choice in an area they wish to work in, give them modest training and opportunities for more if they wish to get certified, and solve several problems at one blow, while not spending much more than we do..but getting some valuable return for it. I don't see the problem and would sign up right now myself for 2 hours a day, since I work 6 or 7 anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 03:25 PM

Well I just read this

Prisoners could work in call centres in job opportunity drive

and dashed over to Mudcat BS thinking there would be a thread on it. However, it does kind of fit into this one nicely, so I have added the link for comment.

I am all for those who have served their time and been rehabilitated being given a chance when they get out, but what I would fear is what information can be passed to call centre staff and which companies/agencies would use such call centres?

Time was they exploited the Indian market but this could see call centres coming back to the UK. At what cost? And to whom?

The world we know is getting scarier by the day and harder to live in for fear of those elected to protected us!

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 03:35 PM

Slave of the Century

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 05:05 AM

I read about that, mauvepink. I quite agree. The customers using the call centres would be completely unaware that criminals (and that's what they are, after all) were taking down their details and would presumably have access to their records etc. Also, those are jobs that honest folk might be glad of. I have several friends with sons & daughters in their twenties who are finding it hard to get work. No-one is doing much for them, and they've never broken the law. I have visited many prisoners in eight prisons in the UK, both 'open' and 'closed' and I do see that they need rehabilitation, but surely common sense dictates that the opportunities don't compromise the security of the public? They chose to commit crimes, we don't owe them much really.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 10:25 AM

I have no problem with the idea of assigning welfare recipients or prisoners to work, as long as the work is for a govermental entity. But, according to the article linked to in the opening post, one of the claimants "...argued that making her work unpaid at a Poundland store for two weeks or risk losing her benefits was a breach of human rights." Isn't a store a private enterprise? Doesn't that mean said store is basically obtaining a free employee at taxpayers' expense? Doesn't that open a very wide door for political corruption? Did Pound Stores get a free worker for two weeks because they gave a government official a better deal on a plasma television set than did their competitor?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 01:53 PM

Actually, prisoners here in UK have the right NOT to work. They can choose, if they wish, not to do anything at all during their sentence, but of course they still get fed, clothed and heating,hot water, TV, lighting etc and the 'Basic' pocket money. Yet the Benefits claimant was threatened with withdrawal of her payments if she turned down the 'work' at Poundland. I call that discrimination.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 02:18 PM

They have obviously got to have food, adequate heating, &c. But I have never understood why they have got to have tv. How long has that been a necessity of life whose removal would be grossly inhumane?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 03:41 PM

You can't just sit at home watching the ( @ )( @ ) boob tube.
(:-( P)=

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 05:47 PM

I agree, Michael. But I suspect the prison officers need to keep them quiet somehow, and TV does that to some extent. I don't see why they should be given pocket money though. They get a 'canteen list' every week and tick off the things they want to buy. It's brought to their cells by an officer (room service?) Blooming cheek!

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 09:31 AM

Where do you draw the line between what prisoners (and by extension benefit recipients &c) need or should be given by the state? Where do you draw the line between punishment and rehabilitation? Lots of people are, perhaps justly, angry about training and educational possibilities in prisons at a time where genuine (re)training &c is out of reach of many law-abiding long-term unemployed.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 10:26 AM

My point is that BOTH prisoners and benefits recipients need to be provided with necessities. But while prisoners are protected from being forced to work for their 'keep', the young lady at Poundland was told to work the prescribed hours or forfeit her benefits. I find this difference hard to justify. I draw the line, GUEST, between the criminality (by choice) of prisoners and the honesty of benefits claimants. The one group have put themselves into their custodial predicament, the others are blameless for being unable to find work.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 10:45 AM

Yes, BWL, Poundland got a free employee - so could sack another paid worker.

If the state is the "employer" so called "workfare" also displaces a paid employee.

What Dave H said on the 10th at 7 Mudcat time is spot on the money.

I imagine that TV for prisoners does enable them to keep up with the world so that they are less disadvantaged on release - as well as helping to keep them quiescent. So it's probably beneficial overall on balance.


Oh dear MG - you need to see what actually happens. Your rose-tinted version of "public service" is a fantasy.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 12:14 PM

GUEST,Eliza,

My comments were more open and rhetorical and not aimed at you.

The earlier point I was making was, regarding the 'hang 'em and flog 'em' brigade', where do they draw the line? Does their need to see punitive 'justice' (no luxuries or liberties and, saliently, making them work for their keep) outweigh the needs of people on the outside who need training and jobs?

Similarly, for those generally more on the left, at a time when college courses, funding &c is being cut outside of prison, how does 'rehabilitation' and training work in prison when it's providing more opportunities inside than it does for people outside?

As for workfare &c., I made some long posts above that should clarify how I feel about workfare and the treatment of people on benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 02:10 PM

(Thank you Guest, I didn't see your post as being directed at me personally.) In an ideal world, prisoners would be given meaningful work (however, this would create serious security issues) and paid a wage, to encourage rehabilitation. Benefits claimants would receive a decent amount per week, enough to actually live on, and help & support to find decent and dignified work. Obviously this isn't an ideal world, and we're in a recession. BUT you cannot ever demand that a person work for benefits that barely sustain life, and threaten to withdraw the pittance if they refuse. That is slavery, and totally abhorrent. It's plain that Poundland and others are gleefully cashing in on the gift of slave labour. Also, as this practice is not nationwide, presumably many claimants are being given their benefits without having to be slaves. Not fair.