BS: Shooting tragedies and guns

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 09:01 AM

We can probably close this thread now.

The idea was that no more "assault weapons" (a term that was never defined with any specificity, but appears to mean semi-automatic shoulder weapons designed to look like military assault rifles, but are not really since they have no full-auto capability) should be sold. This has been accomplished. There was such a run on them that every gun store is sold out. Q. E. D.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 04:39 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZiPCJrd0_4

i love a friendly thread drift. and love this song which starts 'i was walking down the high road and this guy stops me - 'i'm just in from new zealand and i'm looking for mushy peas......' and then develops into the best page on t'internet. beautiful song from the great joe strummer

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 04:06 PM

Libby's, Clarke's, Grave's... we got em all here... wait... hmmm... I gotta check on Libby's next time I am at the stores. I have been known to make mistakes. But, I ALWAYS apologize... >;-)

I have a whack of Clarke's with maple slurpup on accounta Mum likes it and when it's on sale...

I have a SHITLOAD of Grave's with pork and molasses... comes on sale here for 50p a tin in late summer (six packs). I got about 150 tins. HGey... they are nearly three times the price I paid when they are regular price and the Bank of Nova Scotion won't give Jesus a dime of interest on his gold. Myrrhcy me, it just makes Friggincense.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 03:45 PM

Backwoodsman, you were in some beautiful country. I lived about 80 km NNE of Jasper for 10 years. Worked a few MVCs with their EMS and Fire Department. The problem with Banff and Jasper is that while being scenic they are also quite expensive. The Banff-Jasper Highway has a few of the most beautiful spots I've ever seen. I expect you'll recall that gaping big turn in the highway where if ya look up you can see Dall sheep--solid white--on cliffs where there is next to nothing to hold on to.

The Penticton/Kelowna area is something else. Great fruit orchards there. You were in some wild bits of the country a little north of there on The Yellowhead (Hwy 16). We also have a few wild areas here in the east. Anyway, if for some reason you decide to return, there's lots more to see. I've been many places in this country (except Yukon, Prince Edward Island and Labrador) and truthfully there isn't an area I can't say good things about. The people are friendly, but I expect you'd get along well regardless of where you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 01:51 PM

999 - we only touched the tourist route in the far west of AB, Banff, Lake Louise, Icefields Parkway, the Athabasca Glacier, Jasper etc. it was part of our fly-drive from Vancouver, through the wine country around Penticton and Kelowna, into the Rockies and on through Prince George and Smithers to Prince Rupert, by ferry down the Inside Passage to Port hardy on the Island, Campbell River, Victoria and back to Vancouver. Magnificent scenery and very nice, friendly people everywhere we went. Best holiday we've ever had.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 01:37 PM

Hey Kendall, I apologised first! But no matter, we sorted our differences and the Anglo-Canadian entente is cordiale once again, and that's what's important. :-)

Heinz' beans no good then? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: number 6
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 01:04 PM

@Bobert .... good one !!   *lol*

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 12:50 PM

Well, if not the beans, the aftermath of them, bILL...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: number 6
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 10:50 AM

Well .... there ya go ... another long winded thread here in the 'ol Madcat turns into nothing but a can of beans.... ;)

so

on the subject of canned beans ... I recommend you bean fans try Bush's Beans.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 10:42 AM

I'm not 100% sure, but half really sure and half pretty darned sure. Looks are pretty fancy beans for a guy eats 'em out the can half the time. I really miss Libby's. Man, now I'm hungry. Back in a bit.

So much for my memory. I have the can of Clark's in my hand and they're made in Canada. So it probably was Looks you mentioned years back. Guess those folks was right when they said I don't know beans :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: kendall
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 10:00 AM

Clarks? never heard of them.Are you sure I didn't say Looks? Packed in Whiting Maine?

State of Maine used to be my favorite but can't find them anywhere now.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 09:41 AM

Dang. I just wrote the best post I ever composed and it went poof!

Backwoodsman, there's lots of this place left to see. You get back here and I'll help you as much as I can. Right now we're up to our waists in snow, and if it wasn't for roads we'd all be on skis or snowshoes. You mentioned being here in June which is fortuitous, that being the month that houses our two weeks of summer.

I hope you saw The Rockies. I was looking for a good shot of the Nahanni River but got sidetracked in my head by the Fraser River--named for Simon Fraser by a fellow from Westminster, London, England named David Thompson. He was no slouch as an explorer either. Territory that Thompson mapped. I know some of that country fairly well and parts of it can be pretty rough. If you don't mind, where in Alberta did you get to? I lived there for thirty years and have very fond memories if it for the most part.

Anyway, I can be a pain when I get going about this country so I'll stop here. Thank you again for, well, you know.


Kendall, four years back you suggested Clark's canned beans on a thread that I think alluded to the fall of western civilization. Anyway, since I haven't been able to find Libby's anymore I have switched and while they ain't Libby's, they ain't bad. Been eating the kind with molasses when I have beans. I like them on buttered toast. Don't know what I've done with my trusty bean spoon, but cooking without it is not a hardship save for those around me. Thanks, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: kendall
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 07:32 AM

WOW! here's a guy who is man enough to apologize! Not surprising that he's a Canadian.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 05:23 AM

No problem at all, 999, thank you for your gracious reply. And I'm 100% with you there. I did think you're a US-ian, apologies too for that unfortunate misunderstanding! :-)

On a much more pleasant subject, I spent three weeks in your beautiful country in June, BC, a bit of AB, Vancouver Island and Burlington, ON. Retirement holiday - wonderful times!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:55 PM

Hear hear, brucie!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:50 PM

Backwoodsman, I owe you an apology also. I hope you accept it. I may have got a bit ruffled that you thought I'm an American. I'm Canadian.

I hear you loud and clear and in fact agree that no guns at all would be the ideal. I detest the thought of armed citizens walking around thinking they have the wherewithal in skill, training or knowledge to settle situations involving gun violence. And LaPierre is little short of being a shill for the gun industry. His NRA pay per year is about a million, but I still wonder if he gets gifts from arms manufacturers.

I don't know now many horrific incidents it will take to drive home the point that the more guns a society has the more killings will occur involving guns. Citizens with their guns didn't help the kids in the Connecticut school, and they sure didn't help the murderer's mom.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:22 PM

Not too sure of the 11,000 number, Don... I think it might be closer to 15,000... No matter... 200,000 Americans will have the distinct dis-pleasure of experiencing what it is like to be shot... Most will survive but that's a lot of people getting shot...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:16 PM

Bugger! Hit submit in error, (TWICE!). Mudelves please remove last two semi posts.

""Since you have shown that you cannot read simple English statements, a sane person would not waste time on you: There is no reason that anything you post could have any value.""

I read very well mate, and remember that English is the language we taught you, before you fucked it up!

11000 gun deaths in the US of A compared to 41 in the UK.

If you are claiming that your population is 268.3 times larger than ours, it is you who have difficulty reading and understanding simple English!

Unless of course you are admitting to being insane?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:09 PM

11 gun deaths in Japan last year...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 06:04 PM

BTW, bb...

The fact that the recent school shooting wasn't conducted with an AR15 in no way validates your argument...

Guess again...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:43 PM

BTW, Eb...

Redneck-small-penis-nation decided that the best way to show how manly they were a few years back in Northern Virgina and the entire circle-jerk-crew strapped on guns just like in the old western movies and went around barging into various restaurant just to ***prove*** how tough they were... I had read about them in the paper and how they would empty out the restaurants of other customers...

Not until I was in one of these restaurants with my wife and young son did I fully understand I fully understand just how disconcerting it was, told the waiter to box up our stuff and bring a check... I was so pissed that if I had had an AK15 I probably would have shot all of them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:34 PM

This idea that putting guns in schools is beyond stupid, shortsighted and and ill-thought-out... I won't work for the following reasons:

1. Unless you have a team of highly trained armed guards to guard every entrance then a wacko who has done a little homework will just enter the school thru an unguarded entrance...

2. There is an assumption that these wackos don't really know how to use these guns against someone who is trained... That is BS... These wackos have grown up playing video games and have developed all the skills needed to out-shoot a cop wantabee who is packin' a 9mm Glock...

3. There are over 400,000 schools in the US, plus even more preschools, nursrey schools, day car centers... Let's say that it costs $60,000 a year per cop wantabee, do the math...

Now, lets throw in some other factors...

I was a "food court" today in South Charlotte... If a wacko had wanted to he could have opened fired in there and killed a couple hundred people, half of them being kids...

Anyone go to see the local high school football team play??? Think on the bleachers... Couple hundred kids dead...

How about church or Sunday school???

Ya'll get my drift here???

The NRA's idea isn't even half-baked... It's stupid and moronic, at best...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: bobad
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:10 PM

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

In part by forbidding almost all forms of firearm ownership, Japan has as few as two gun-related homicides a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 04:30 PM

Ah yes, and Benedict Arnold's treason also did not make 1780 rosy for the rebels.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 04:07 PM

It's interesting. Even some of those who see the need for gun regulation have bought onto some of the more sloppy stereotypes of US history and guns.

Revolutionary War "won by a bunch of regular guys with guns".

Wrong.

Uncounted times Washington despaired at having to try to win a war with "a bunch of regular guys with guns."

'Baron" von Steuben (he claimed that title, mostly for employment reasons) was in fact essential in creating a regular army.   Washington pushed constantly, with marginal success, to make the "army" as regular as possible. And he realized the idea of national defense through militia was a dead loser.

And at the beginning of 1781, with mutinies, unpaid troops and defeats, it did not look good for the rebels--even with the "regular army".   Militia would not have done the job.

And without the British obsession with New York, combined with the French willingness to leave the West Indies undefended for a while, and the quick march by Washington's army to Virginia--and the inconclusive sea battle off the coast--which did however cut off Cornwallis' resupply or retreat--the outcome would have been different, to say the least.   The French, going bankrupt partly due to the American war, were about to seek an honorable withdrawal--independence for the colonies not guaranteed. 1781 was to be the last chance.    Without the constellation outlined above, there would have been no American victory that year.   Even with it, the expectation was there would be more campaigns after 1781. Only the UK change of government stopped that.

When the American cause relied on militia, the militia often failed the cause.

The drivel about "guys with guns" winning the Revolution is large part just part of the NRA mythology. The rest of us should know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: kendall
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:11 PM

Since this thread has become so nasty, and the same old opinions just go round and round ad nauseam, I have no more time to waste on childish name calling. I'm outta here.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:04 PM

2. Deter — Put police officers in schools, because with just one officer assigned to a school, the probability of a mass murder in that school drops to almost zero

One word, Beardie: Columbine.

You lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:03 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From:GUEST,Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:15 AM

I don't believe anyone here has suggested a total ban on guns, even the UK-ers....


Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From:Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:27 AM

... You asked for solutions, we gave you the answer.

"GET RID OF THE FUCKING GUNS!"...

*********************************************************************

Yeah... right.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:02 PM

Denial is a river in Africa, Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 02:51 PM

as a 'UKer' i would propose a total ban on gun ownership. here most people are very uncomfortable with the idea of a few of our police being armed. and with good reason -a few years back a guy was killed while carrying a table leg in a plastic bag- the police mistook this for a gun. and more recently jean charles de menezes was murdered by police - a brazilian electrician on his way to work, apparently mistaken for a terrorist suspect.
of course, there is a completely different argument in the states - and i feel very sorry for you - but a total ban would surely be an ideal to strive for.

incidentally, the landed gentry here are allowed to own shotguns for the pleasure of hunting and shooting our wildlife - disgusting gang of perverts that they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 01:01 PM

A policeman's opinion:


http://www.policeone.com/school-violence/articles/2058168-Active-shooters-in-schools-The-enemy-is-denial


"1. Denial — Denial is the enemy and it has no survival value, said Grossman.

2. Deter — Put police officers in schools, because with just one officer assigned to a school, the probability of a mass murder in that school drops to almost zero

3. Detect — We're talking about plain old fashioned police work here. The ultimate achievement for law enforcement is the crime that didn't happen, so giving teachers and administrators regular access to cops is paramount.

4. Delay — Various simple mechanisms can be used by teachers and cops to put time and distance between the killers and the kids.

a. Ensure that the school/classroom have just a single point of entry. Simply locking the back door helps create a hard target.
b. Conduct your active shooter drills within (and in partnership with) the schools in your city so teachers know how to respond, and know what it looks like when you do your response.

5. Destroy — Police officers and agencies should consider the following:

a. Carry off duty. No one would tell a firefighter who has a fire extinguisher in his trunk that he's crazy or paranoid.
b. Equip every cop in America with a patrol rifle. One chief of police, upon getting rifles for all his officers once said, "If an active killer strikes in my town, the response time will be measured in feet per second."
c. Put smoke grenades in the trunk of every cop car in America. Any infantryman who needs to attack across open terrain or perform a rescue under fire deploys a smoke grenade. A fire extinguisher will do a decent job in some cases, but a smoke grenade is designed to perform the function.
d. Have a "go-to-war bag" filled with lots of loaded magazines and supplies for tactical combat casualty care.
e. Use helicopters. Somewhere in your county you probably have one or more of the following: medevac, media, private, national guard, coast guard rotors.
f. Employ the crew-served, continuous-feed, weapon you already have available to you (a firehouse) by integrating the fire service into your active shooter training. It is virtually impossible for a killer to put well-placed shots on target while also being blasted with water at 300 pounds per square inch.
g. Armed citizens can help. Think United 93. Whatever your personal take on gun control, it is all but certain that a killer set on killing is more likely to attack a target where the citizens are unarmed, rather than one where they are likely to encounter an armed citizen response.
"

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:42 PM

GUEST999 - sincere apologies, I completely misinterpreted your post and took it to be in support of those who believe that they need guns in order to challenge your government. My bad - pax?

And arrogant though you may regard me as being, I'm sufficiently gracious as to admit when I'm mistaken and offer an apology, which I'm happy to do here.

However, my argument stands, and I apologise to no-one for making it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:31 PM

LOL. It can't be harder than trying to agree with one.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:24 PM

Trying to argue facts with a Liberal?

Is that what's got ya down, Bunkie?

Well, what the World needs is a good 5-cent nickel!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:13 PM

Subject: RE: BS: So Where Is a Gun Control Petition???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:12 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: So Where Is a Gun Control Petition???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:04 AM

The only purpose I have ever seen for semi-automatic or automatic guns of any sort (rifle or pistol) is to fire lots of bullets (projectiles) really fast. However, what many folks here are missing is the mindset of people who own guns like that. They DO fear their governments and many are stocking up for self-defense/survival. Someone on another thread said they are full of shite. That may be so, but it is their reality. We know the rule of law seems doomed given the degree of social breakdown that has occurred. So getting law back will have to be step one."

Note the fucking time!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:08 PM

Guest,Backwoodsman. For some fucking deluded reason you think I agree with that. I don't. I'd like to see no guns of either automatic or semiautomatic, and I'd like all handguns off the street. So before I get further into it, think about that. And as a btw, go fuck yourself you arrogant asshole!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:07 PM

#6.Ban "open carry" of all handguns except for police... I don't want to go into a restaurant and have a dozen cowboy wnatabees come in with pistols strapped to their legs..."

"Looking at the crime rate of places where open carry is legal, and the crime rate of placeswere carry is prohibited, I do not agree with you." BeardedBruce

Bruce, I can only tell you that if I saw one or more 'cowboywannabes' come into a restaurant or mall or Home Depot or wherever I would be out of there as quickly as I could manage. And so would most of the patrons- it would be an excellent way to clear an area.

It's bad enough knowing that some of the people have 'concealed carry'; I do NOT want to live in any place that allows civilians/people in with guns of any sort.

Back in the old Wild West, you recall, the dictum was to leave the guns at the desk. Men were not allowed to mingle while openly wearing.

Of course, the movies showed it differently- anyone get their information from them?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:59 AM

GUEST999 - the way to deal with a government you don't trust is through the ballot box, that's how civilised societies do it, not by waving guns around and getting a hard-on by talking big about taking on the government by force of arms.

So, how many times since the 2nd Amendment was put into the Statute Books has your 'we'll regulated militia' (ha, there's a laugh!) used the arms it considers its right to bear in order to whip your government into line? I'll clue you - it's a number that's less than one.

And should your 'well regulated militia' of rednecks, gun-nuts, sexual inadequates and paranoids (interspersed with a few farmers, hunters, target-shooters and retired cops) take up arms against your government, how long do you think they'd last before they got a bloody good kicking from your 'standing army' (along with your Air Force and navy) and started taking up residence in body bags?

FFS, get real! It's a ridiculous illusion which has been grabbed and peddled by the gun-nuts and NRA as justification for the proliferation of guns in the US. Anyone who truly believes it really should NOT be granted a permit to possess firearms, on the grounds that they are delusional to the point of being mentally defective.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:23 AM

So Bobert, help me out here.

Who ARE these racist scum that support your viewpoint?
Can you provide me with a list?

And which of your many viewpoints do they support?

Thanks-

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: John P
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:30 AM

We don't have any laws to keep someone who is not already a felon from getting a gun. I'm a good deal less worried about a criminal with a gun than I am about a "normal" neighbor or person on the freeway who loses their temper and has a gun handy.

If, most of the time, it was a felony to buy a gun, people would have to become a felon before opening fire. We'd have have a chance to catch them before they kill. As it is now, we don't find out they're crazy or out of control until they open fire. Also, most people aren't willing to become felons and wouldn't buy a gun in the first place.

One of the laws we have in many states that is always enforced is the "shall issue" law about concealed weapons permits - anyone who isn't a felon MUST be given a permit if they ask for one. One law we should have is to have anyone who wants to carry a concealed handgun to prove they need it, they know how and when to use it, and that they aren't very close to the edge of being crazy or just losing control.

Until you can guarantee that people who are nearly crazy can't legally get their hands on guns, please stop saying that we have plenty of laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:01 AM

"

7. Create a 24 hour waiting period for the purchase of any gun..."

That would be a decrease in waiting time here in PG County, MD- and look at the crime rate here.


I think the solution is to enforce the laws we have ( ALL OF THEM) and then make new laws AFTER WE SEE WHAT WORKS.

As long as it is acceptable to violate laws that we do not like, such as the ones against pot and drugs, there will be people breaking the law and not caring about societal standards. Like the graffiti cleanup in NYC, ENFORCING THE LAWS ( or changing them WITHOPU violating them) would establish a climate of law abiding, and reduce gun violence (WHICH IS ILLEGAL)

So how about it, Bobert? Ready to turn in those pot growers and moonshiners?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:00 AM

Why am I so constantly being reminded, by so may Yooser entries on all these lost-count-of-how-many gun threads currently ongoing, of the yokel [= US hayseed] asked the way to somewhere; who stopped, and scratched his head, and thought for a minute, and scratched his head again; and then delivered himself of the helpful observation: "Well, you can't start from here."?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 09:33 AM

Bobert,

Like the mandatory sentences have "won the war on drugs"? How about execution of all pot smokers, since they willingly violate federal laws?

The PRESENT LAWS and penalties ARE NOT ENFORCED- When they are, see if that makes a difference BEFORE you pass new laws that the courts will not enforce.

I addressed your comments- YOU do not choose to address mine.

The definition in law of "ASSAULT RIFLE" you have already denied as being valid.

You must think that the performance of a weapon is caused by the appearance, since THAT is what the previous law went by.


And you still keep silent on the racist scum that support your viewpoint. THEY would liove for you to be sure their next lynching victim was not allowed to have a firearm.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 09:07 AM

So, bb... You really haven't addressed my proposals other than the usual "it won't work" pablum of the NRA...

BTW, I have defined "assault rifle" over and over but rather than accept what I, and millions of others define it as, step right by our sane and reasonable definition and go to existing law...

******************Existing laws are the problem**********************

Now back to your "it won't work" defeatism defense: If you put some real teeth in the laws they will work... Slaps on the wrists, I agree, won't work... Mandatory prison term will...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:57 AM

Nothing like a rational conversation about guns.


"The drivel being touted by some about standing up to a government they distrust should absolutely not be a qualifying 'need or reason', it's just big-mouth bluster, and complete, utter shite."

Backwoodsman, you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but you are failing to see that many people who want assault rifles--rifles that fire lots of projectiles really fast--do so because they do NOT trust their government/police. Whether they would even try to fight back against a takeover is another matter, but that is part of their rationale for wanting the weapons in the first place. Which came first, the gun or the need, is up for grabs.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:55 AM

Bobert,

"I mean, there are a lot of very reasonable and sane adults who want to see the following laws enacted:

1. Ban military style assault rifles even though they are sold a semi-automatic..."

DEFINE "assault rifle" Since you do not accept the definition that the courts do. please define WHAT YOU MEAN- Black plastic stock and parkerized?

"2. Ban high capacity magazines (clips) that hold over 10 rounds.."

Since the killings in Conn were done with pistols ( the AR-15 was found IN THE CAR **AFTER** the shootings) I think making sure police never have more than 10 rounds might be good idea ( Glocks- 17 rounds)

.

"3. Close the gun-show loophole..."

OK, then the criminals will meet in the malls to exchange guns. FFL DEALERS have the same paperwork and registration requirements REGARDLESS of where they are selling.



"4. Require anyone who owns a pistol to register it and provide a "certificate of proficiency" to own it..."

How? If it is already impossible to keep FELONS from having guns illegally, how do you get them to register it? ONLY law abiding citizens are affected by this. You would, in effect, be arming the Klan and disarming the NAACP.

"5. Invest what is needed for background checks to work in a timely manner, which it currently doesn't do..."

THIS I AGREE WITH.

"6. Ban "open carry" of all handguns except for police... I don't want to go into a restaurant and have a dozen cowboy wnatabees come in with pistols strapped to their legs..."

Looking at the crime rate of places where open carry is legal, and the crime rate of placeswere carry is prohibited, I do not agree with you.



7. Create a 24 hour waiting period for the purchase of any gun...

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:43 AM

Don T

"Nothing to be done, according to Peedee and Bruce (ought to be a good cartoon series there)."



Bullshit!

Since you have shown that you cannot read simple English statements, a sane person would not waste time on you: There is no reason that anything you post could have any value.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Stu
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:31 AM

Don T has it right.

"Guns do not kill people"

They do if you point them at someone and pull the trigger. Guns make it easy for any fool to kill anyone. They make it easy to intimidate and murder and terrorise and maim and . . . ah well, it's been said so many times.

No guns = more difficult to kill people. Very difficult to massacre people without a weapon like a gun of any type.

Thinking about this whole business, the one thing that keeps coming back to my mind are the actions of Victoria Soto, the 27 year-old teacher who hid her class in the closet and faced the gunman as he came to kill those kids. She stood her ground with the sort of courage most of us pray we could muster in such a situation and she looked that murdering slimeball in the eye and with great presence of mind misdirected him, although she paid with her life, a price she both knew should would have to pay and was willing to pay to save those children. Her bravery and sacrifice gives me hope that out of this adversity comes a triumph of the human spirit, of compassion and intelligence and the understanding that we all live together, and need to look after each other.

Victoria Soto's selfless heroism shows that the greatest courage comes from people who don't have guns of any description; we see this in history time and time again.

Guns kill people. Gun support enables that to happen. End of. No more of this self-delusional "Guns don't kill people" bollocks. It's the lie that will condemn more innocents to a violent death they don't deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:33 AM

BTW.

The guns I'm referring to are the ones designed to kill people, especially handguns and semi autos.

Hunting rifles and vermin killers like .22s and shotguns are not included.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:27 AM

Well, that seems to be that folks!

Nothing to be done, according to Peedee and Bruce (ought to be a good cartoon series there).

So, load your weapons, lock all your doors and sit back and do NOTHING.

You can pass the time by making bets on whether your broken and prohibitively expensive medical system will weed out all the nutjobs before one of them slaughters your kids.

I don't give much in the way of odds there, since your medical insurers avoid long term cases like the plague, so make the most of the kiddies while you've got 'em.

You asked for solutions, we gave you the answer.

"GET RID OF THE FUCKING GUNS!"

Don't want to listen? Suit yourselves, but don't expect any sympathy at all the next time some gun happy arsehole massacres a whole school class

Our sympathy is reserved for the real victims, the children sacrificed to their parents love affair with guns.

I'm out of this, gravely disappointed in the nation which once had pioneer spirit.

Don T.