BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:21 PM

WADDAYA MEAN DO I EVER LOSE MY TEMPER?!
OF COURSE I do......

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:50 PM

"If you do, you can't possibly win any debate."

The real object of life isn't winning debates. If you think it is, you're caught up in a competitive mental game that goes nowhere. A sufficiently clever and aggressive talker, after all, can seem to "win" many debates and still be wrong, still have a bad character, and still be someone most people would rather not know.

I say this because I've witnessed it in real life...many times.

To paraphrase an amusing old Peanuts cartoon from long ago...Charlie Brown is yelling at someone in the distance whom he's clearly had some difference of opinion with, and they supposedly "won" the debate. He's yelling at this person (Lucy?) who is apparently walking away having "trounced" him in the verbal fray...

Panel 1. Charlie Brown: "You think you're right, but you're not!"

Panel 2. (silent panel as he glares at unseen person who is probably receding in the distance)

Panel 3. Charlie Brown: "You just SOUND right!"

Charlie Brown almost always loses debates to more aggressive and confident and meaner people than himself, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're right and he's wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:11 PM

Among people who know my usual low-key demeanor and basically trust me, losing my temper can be a useful thing... it catches their attention and shows that something important is happening. It does NOT happen often.

When among people who don't know me, blowing up in anger will 'usually' be an excuse to ignore or reply in kind, leading to nothing useful. If I feel the need to really tell someone, or express my displeasure with their behavior (or lack of it), a controlled, tedious rant in a cold, focused manner will often get their attention, if not their cooperation.
I had to do this several times last weekend when *sigh*, I had to go to a hospital emergency room and eventually be admitted for 2 days (I'm fine now, thanks) The hospital staff NEEDED to be told a few things, and were sort of obligated to let me go on about several things. IF I had just exploded, they would have probably shifted into "deal with loud, nasty people with standard techniques" mode. I'm sure they get plenty of those.

Like Ebbie, if I just shout my equivalent of "bullshit", I usually end up frustrated and upset at myself.
I am not really sure why some people have shorter fuses and less self-control than others, but I do believe much of it is just habit.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:06 PM

Getting angry can be done selectively and deliberately as a mode of communication aimed at passive aggressive types. It can serve to make them crawl out of their holes. It is not, in this sense, the same as losing one's temper.

In the sense of just going out of rational socially-acceptable control, it has only happened a couple of times to me--once when someone waved a knife in my face and ended up on the floor, and once when an arrogant supervisor tried to lay undeserved guilt on my poor long-suffering butt for his own confusions. He also ended up on the floor. But that was many a year ago, by a different sort of sea altogether. :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:49 PM

I just remembered... the only times I ever came close to hitting anyone, and told them so, was years ago when many people smoked and it was not unknown to have someone intentionally blow smoke in my face. They NEVER did it again- I guess my reaction spoke for itself.
   I have not needed to physically 'defend' myself since the bully in the 6th grade decided to win 'status' by pushing me around after school. He grabbed me in front of the two ^{high status} guys, and I twisted around, put his left arm in a serious half-nelson, and pushed his face into the grass. I guess that was a 'loss of temper', but I never said a word.... and he never bothered me again.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:05 PM

I'm proud of my big sis, Eb, for losing her temper... Hey, if she had decked this boorish woman I would be a little prouder but still very proud...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:35 PM

"All you have to do is have the facts on your side.    If you do, sarcasm is perfect."

Sarcasm is probably even more useful to those who don't have the facts on their side. In fact it can be a very effective way of bullying an opponent who actually might be in the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 10:16 PM

Incidentally my loss of temper thankfully was a short one. The whole incident took perhaps three minutes.

I doubt I changed her mind or her audience but in future she may at least look over her shoulder to check who is listening. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:29 PM

Whatever you say, Kevin.

Ridicule works. And those who don't like it have to come up with facts to counter it. In Ebbie's case it would have worked just fine. And the woman had richly earned it. She had no facts.

As for the pious injunction that we shouldn't be interested in winning debates, welcome to the real world.   Again, Ebbie would likely have been interested in pointing out the idiocy of the woman in question.    Point is: it can be done without getting into a vulgar assault.

It's just a fact:   if the other person loses his or her temper, that's the end of the debate right there.

You don't go looking for trouble, but in Ebbie's case there's no reason she could not do something about the situation. And that seems to have been the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 07:20 PM

Best way to deal with an enemy is to make him look ridiculous.

When I was in high school, a group of us had been down town during lunch. As we were walking back to school, one of the town notables, also a drinker, met us, and he waved his hand toward us and spoke in a loud tone, "Well, look at the future of America".

I simply waved back and said, "While you are at it, take a look at its past". He couldn't get past us quick enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 07:41 PM

The wiser you are, the fewer "enemies" you have.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 07:54 PM

Nobody ever wins a debate. That's the real world. One party might succeed in silencing the other, but there's no particular reason to assume that's going to be the one with the better case. And the person who is silenced will virtually always continue to think they were in the right.

That's the difference from a discussion, where people can actual modify how they see an issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 12:09 AM

"modify how they see".   Right. Please cite some examples of this.

Sorry, Kevin, you seem to need a bit more acquaintaince with the real world.

Sometimes people seem to be so "evenhanded" they wind up standing for nothing. As has been said, if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.

More often, we have situations like that described by Kendall, by me--and by Ebbie.

Mouthing meaningless pious platitudes that "nobody wins" a debate does nothing but allow the poster to pat himself on the back.

If I can cut off someone on Mudcat who is sounding off that all political parties are the same, that all evil is due to religion/ capitalism/ or whatever the universal villain du jour is, that is worthwhile. And it has happened. Simplistic answers to complex problems--of which there are an amazing number on Mudcat here in the depths--deserve---and will continue to get--ridicule--from me and others.

If Ebbie managed to make this woman appear ridiculous--and thereby limit the converts to her idiocy--that also was worthwhile.

I know we can't expect saints to understand this--but that is the real world.

OK, time for the next platitude.