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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Tattie Bogle Date: 03 Feb 16 - 09:19 PM I learned this lovely song from the DT version, which omits the second verse: I have since heard others sing the whole song. It was amended to include all the verses way up this thread,so could it possibly be revised in the DT to include all the verses? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Gavin Paterson Date: 03 Feb 16 - 03:09 PM I have to say, Jim McLean if you see this, your name has cropped up all over the place in the past week or so. I've been asked to sing this song so I came here to re-search it and found your name. I recently watched The Eskimo Republic concert from 1994 on Vimeo, again your name is attached to these songs. And I've been reading the Singing From The Floor book and there you are again! Smashing song, thanks for making it. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Jim McLean Date: 25 May 11 - 06:45 AM Thanks, mulv, but the song had been recorded correctly many years before BD recorded it. It has also been printed with the correct music. I am very grateful when people sing any of my songs but quite a bit of effort goes into marrying words to music and I just feel it is important to do a bit of research before singing any song. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: GUEST,mulv Date: 24 May 11 - 10:09 PM Jim - I've not heard BD live or bought the album since the 'resurrection'(any more than I'd spent money to watch Man U or any other Prem Lge team at exhorbitant prices)...but I expect she sings it just like I have it in me head.....which is probably wrong by your reckoning of course....this might explain what I was talking about earlier....though I seem to recall the 'change' was on 'Where is our proud....men'.Anyways,still a magic song and lyrics...and now standing the test of time ! And that's a massive test ! Don't forget,I heard this song 30+ years back a la BD and it still lives ! If I was you,I'd take that as a real feather in me cap ! Ask B/hoven if he reckoned his music would be around in 200 years' time !! Actually,what pisses me off now,of course,is that when I warble 'Hush Hush','Jamie Raeburn','Bonny Ythanside' everyone will think that I've just knicked them off her latest album......forgetting totally 'Shipyard App/Westm'land/Her Father/International/Steamboat/Johnny etc' ...just all great songs from Fisher/Rafferty etc that she really did do really great justice to. Loved (rather than love) her ! And thanks for giving us all marvellous lyrics to a tremendous air ! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Jim McLean Date: 01 Apr 11 - 01:16 PM I have just listen to a snippet of Barbara Dixon singing a verse from Smile in your Sleep. I wrote the song as verse, chorus, verse chorus and so on. Barbara sings the verse "We stood with heads bowed in prayer...." to the chorus melody. I am pleased when people honour me by singing my songs but why don't they get them right! The verse is sung to the 'high' part of the complete melody deliberately as it appeals more, a cry almost. The melody of the chorus is more relaxed, suitable for the lullaby part. I just despair sometimes. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: GUEST Date: 31 Mar 11 - 07:39 PM Indeed Barbara Dickson does put Smile In Your Sleep on her new album Words Unspoken. Has such a beautiful melody. This version maybe too produced for many but I understand Barbara wants to take traditional music to a wider audience, so certainly you'd describe most of the album as accessible. No denying the quality of her voice though, she sings Will Ye Gang Love unaccompanied. Beautiful. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: GUEST,mulv Date: 25 Jan 11 - 09:20 PM WELL - I Never !! Seems BD has found her roots and released a CD which includes this terrific song.....not heard it yet.....but all ears.....with the qualification that she has also put 'Jamie Raeburn' on the CD...and I've only as yet listened to her website blag....not heard 'Hush Hush'....but BD's version of Jamie R (on website) has changed since years back....and left me disappointed ...grieves me to say it BUT (a la website) it's over-produced and slower in tempo (which didn't impress me).Based on my old tape record,memories and what still spins in me head (AND entrance fee !)....I'll probably give her tour a miss,go and watch Worcester City FC and stick with the memories (or maybe not ! .....bloody assertiveness courses are not worth the fees...or are they ?...what d'ya think ?) She's still a singer and a half...but I fear that all her 'recent' background has 'uprooted' her.Shame !! But with her talent I'd have done exactly the same and become a professional footballer (OR...would I ?,the course lecturer laughed).Err...I'll see if the wife will buy us some tickets and then I can say I went 'invited'.I'm sorta undecided ! Seriously - won't go but might buy the CD for curiosity's sake....Barbara,thanks 'cos I didn't expect my love affair to last this long ! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 21 Nov 10 - 08:11 PM I get it on the iPlayer over the internet, but as I said, the main problem is getting listings of what's on. Usually I just have to trawl through every now and then. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Jim McLean Date: 21 Nov 10 - 07:28 PM Hi Dave, I live in London but can get BBC Alba on Freesat .. a god send. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 21 Nov 10 - 05:37 PM Hi Jim. I assumed you knew the background. I put the link in for other people. The trouble I have with BBC Alba is trying to get programme listings. I get Scotland on Sunday and it doesn't mention them at all. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Gallus Moll Date: 21 Nov 10 - 05:22 PM Thanks Jim, have emailed you! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Jim McLean Date: 21 Nov 10 - 05:37 AM Dave, I have heard the gaelic song "Chi Mi na Morbheanna" sung many times and always enjoyed its beuty. It illustrates the melodic difference to "Mist Covered Mountains", the pipe tune, which I used (with modifications) for "Smile in your Sleep". "Chi Mi na Morbheanna" uses basically the same melody for verse and chorus whereas "Mist Covered Mountains" is a two parter. The program was of course about John Cameron's lyrics, beautifully wedded to the tune which has already been pointed out to be a variant of "Johnny so Long at the Fair". Big Gallus Moll, I produced a booklet of 25 Scottish Rebel songs, with music, in 1968 and still have some. Email me at JawMac@aol.com and I'll see what I can do .... my attic is full of them! I had to print thousands to get a price I could afford. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 21 Nov 10 - 03:33 AM I don't think so, and it's only available till Monday at 21:00 GMT. The next (and last) episode is songs from Skye. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Gallus Moll Date: 21 Nov 10 - 12:57 AM Is this programme repeated on a Sunday evening, i.e. tonight? Think I saw it listed - --? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 20 Nov 10 - 06:59 PM PS I didn't put a blue clicky for Tir nan Oran as it'll probably only be on the iPlayer for a week. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Gallus Moll Date: 20 Nov 10 - 06:51 PM Is there a book of Jim Mclean songs? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 18 Nov 10 - 06:22 PM Tir nan Oran on BBC Alba covered Argyll this week, and the first song they did was "Chi Mi na Morbheanna" and how it was written. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: GUEST,paul Date: 01 Oct 10 - 03:28 PM anyone got the guitar chords for hush hush |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Smile In Your Sleep / Hush, hush From: Jim McLean Date: 16 May 10 - 05:23 AM The answer to mally is 'yes' (more commonly known as the Highland Clearances). |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Smile in Your Sleep (J.McLean) From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 16 May 10 - 01:43 AM Jim McLean is a fellow Mudcatter. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Smile in Your Sleep (J.McLean) From: Murray MacLeod Date: 15 May 10 - 05:36 PM you will find out all you ever wanted to know about the song on this thread |
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Subject: Origin: Smile in Your Sleep (J.McLean) From: mally Date: 15 May 10 - 02:40 PM Would I be right in thinking that this is about the Scottish clearances? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: GUEST,mulv Date: 28 Feb 10 - 08:10 PM Thanks for the clarification,Jim (Mc) To clarify,Wendy's verses are as BD's THIRD VERSE (only)- clearly BD 'alternated' the airs between the two mentioned,so to speak.Also,Wendy's chorus is not as BD sang,either.Anyways,my original question has been answered,thanks very much.When I do sing this,I will stick with the BD version since it is what I *know* (got very used to this version after 35+ years !!) - but will of course acknowledge the lyrics.Hope that causes no offence to anybody and my curiosity has been well explained.But I know that the 'mixed' BD version works well. Thanks to all who contributed - especially Jim for taking so much time to follow all this up personally. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:43 AM Sorry the clicky should have read Rankin Family. By the way there are other versions of Chi Mi on Youtube which don't use the 'official' version of the tune but mix it up with the pipe version, especially for part b, which I call the verse. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:39 AM Thanks for that, Jack. The Rankin family sing Chi Mi'correctly' to my ear. You can hear the difference in the first two bars and in the first line of the chorus as to that of the pipe tune Mist Covered, which is the setting I use. I chose the pipe version because I felt it suited my verse to go up high when making an appeal rather than stay on the same not as in Chi Mi. Rakin Family |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jack Campin Date: 24 Feb 10 - 09:04 AM Here for comparison is the "official" version of "Chi mi na mor-bheanna":
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Feb 10 - 07:57 PM Can I make something clear - I am in no way implying that Junior plagerised the song - he was one of the most frankly honest people I ever met and would never do such a thing. We recorded Ewan MacColl in the early eighties and asked him how he approached his songwriting. He said that when you were involved in song and music, after a while you subconciously remembered and mentally filed everything you heard. When you came to make a new tune you drew from what you already knew and produced something different but identifiably yours. Junior, who was totally absorbed in his music, which was as much a part of his life as drawing breath, fits this description perfectly and I am convinced that any similarities to the song were totally due to this. This, I think, fits in with what Jim and Jack said. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jack Campin Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:33 PM Seven Old Ladies? There are only three in Britain. Are Irish lavatories a lot bigger? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 23 Feb 10 - 05:17 PM And not to demean the thread, but Johnny's So Long At the Fair is the melody (or variant thereof) of the Seven Old Ladies. This sort of thing goes on a lot e.g. Fáinne Geal an Lae = the Dawning of the Day = Raglan Road. Up the tempo a bit and you have William Bloat. The jig Donnybrook Fair slowed down to an air gives us Easy and Slow. Anyway, great song Jim! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jack Campin Date: 23 Feb 10 - 04:54 PM "Chi mi na mor-bheanna" was not published at first with a notated tune, as far as I know - the earliest source for it I've seen (a book of Gaelic poems from about 1880) said to use "Johnny's too long at the fair". Since then the tune has evolved - probably the one we're most familiar with first saw print in a Mod sheet a bit before 1900, it's in the 1896-1912 volume of "Coisir a Mhoid". Anne Lorne Gillies, in "Songs of Gaelic Scotland", adds to the confusion by printing a version of the tune which mixes up the Mod's one and the pipe version - at least she has the decency to say what she's doing. The least documented change is whatever happened between "Johnny's too long at the fair" around 1856 and the Mod's tune forty years later. They are more closely related than either is to Junior Crehan's jig, but nobody could confuse the two. The Mod book credits the arrangement to John Bell but doesn't say he wrote the tune itself. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 23 Feb 10 - 04:18 PM Jim, the time scale seems to be: Chi Mi Na Morbheanns 1856. Mist Covered Mountains of Home; Scots Guards Settings 1954. Smile in your Sleep 1963 (my song using the Scots Guards settings .. almost). Junior Crehan's tune First recording 1976 (according to Irishinfo). If you listen to Junior's jig with Mist Covered Mountains in mind you could be forgiven if you associate the two but it's a case of Junior playing within the 'contour' of Mist Covered Mountains of Home, and only a few bars, set in jig time, although the chord structure is not followed and one would have to insert starting places etc., hence he has created a new tune. But no one,unless his ears are painted on, can say Junior's jig and Mist Covered Mountains of Home are the same melody. Also to say that both tunes are accepted as being from the one source would assume another original tune, the source for both which is not the case. I remember Matt McGinn asking me to write a song with him. Matt's idea was to take a well known tune say, the Highland Fairy Lullaby, and from that create Coorie Doon. I didn't co-operate but one can see that he created a different tune albeit from an established melody, THE source. I would be interested to hear off line any comments regarding 'academic dissertation on the influence of Scots music on the Irish tradition' as you know this interests me. One point, which melody does your friend associate with the 'song air'? Chi MI or Mist Covered Mountains as they are not the same although often confused. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 10 - 08:32 AM Having said which, I just bumped into one of the directors of a traditional music school who pointed out that locally, the two tunes are accepted as being from the one source to the extent that they are paired in local sessions, the song air then the jig. The same thing happens with the song and jig "The Lark in the Morning", which are also totally different tunes. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Feb 10 - 08:24 AM All, Just in case I was losing the plot I dragged out Junior's double CD 'The Last House in Ballymackea' where the tune appears on CD 2 as 'The Mist Covered Mountain', paired with 'Scully Casey's Jig' - again, I have no doubt that the two tunes are related. However, I am not a musician and don't read music, so I must bow to those with greater knowledge and experience than mine. I have done some work on tune comparisons related to research on the origins of the tunes MacColl adapted for his own songs, but that was somewhat limited. Having said which, I just bumped into one of the directors of a traditional music school who pointed out that locally, the two tunes are accepted as being from the one source to the extent that they are paired in local sessions, the song air then the jig. He also pointed out that the comparison of the two is given as an example in an academic dissertation on the influence of Scots music on the Irish tradition (be happy to share the details off-line). I don't know if piper Peter Laban is observing this - I would very much value his input. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 23 Feb 10 - 05:32 AM Sorry Jim, there seems to be many titles for Junior Crehan's song. This from Irishinfo titles I think we are discussing three melodies here: 1. Chi mi na Mòr-bheanna was written (as Dùil ri Baile Chaolais fhaicinn) by John Cameron of Ballachulish (c.1856). The tune wasn't originally Gaelic; nor is it "ancient." It's an adaptation of Johnny's so long at the Fair, which itself probably isn't older than the second half of the 18th century, and may not even be Scottish.(copied from a previous post by Malcolm Douglas) 2. Mist covered Mountains of Home; a pipe version of Chi mi but differs on various main parts of the melody, used by me. 3. Junior Crehan's melody in jig time which has various titles but is definitely not the same as either of the two above. I agree with Jack that 'The strongest I'd put it is that Crehan's tune might be vaguely inspired by the Scottish one'. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 10 - 08:52 PM "Mist Covered Mountain" The title of Junior's tune is 'The Mist Covered Mountain'; that is what he called it when he first gave it to us back in the 70s and it was published under that title in the collection edited by his daughter Angela Crotty, released after his death (Martin Junior Crehan; Musical compostions and memories 1908-1998 - page 11). I have it in front of me as I type It refers to Mount Callan, which we can see from our back window - Junior lived about three miles from here and we recorded many songs stories, tunes and a great deal of lore from him over the last 30 odd years. Thanks for the tips for listening to the tune and for reading the ABC Jack and Jim - I'm having sound problems at present, but will listen to it when I get them sorted. The song I know as 'Mist Covered Mountains of Home' is the Scots one, I'm pretty sure it was recorded by Jimmy Shand; may be wrong on this, but I knew it long before I met Junior. I am happy to let anybody have a recording of Junior playing the tune. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Feb 10 - 01:47 PM Maybe what Jim knows as the (Irish?) song "The Mist Covered Mountains of Home" has a different tune to the Scottish "Mist Covered Mountains"? You don't need to read music to use ABC. Copy one of the ABC tunes (everything from the "X:" line to the end), paste it into the box at http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/abcconvert.php , and hit the "Submit" button. You will get the box filled with staff notation: click in it and you can hear a MIDI of the tune. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 22 Feb 10 - 01:43 PM Jim, If you listen to Wendy Arrowsmith on the YouTube link I posted then listen to this and no matter how you vary the speed, the tunes are not the same. Mist on the Mountain and the title of Junior Crehan's tune is 'The Mist on the Mountain' not as you posted 'Mist Covered Mountain' |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 10 - 12:26 PM "Almost identical?" Jack, Sorry; I don't read music, but I have heard Junior play it on many occasions, even have several recordings of him doing so. I have have also heard the song. It sounds the same to me, but we might be talking about different songs. Junior made the tune without being aware of having heard the song; but when the similarities were pointed out to a member of his family (a musician herself), she accepted totally that it was the same in different times. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 22 Feb 10 - 07:46 AM Mulv, I have listened to Mark Knopfler's version. He plays a,a,b but interestingly enough the first line of 'a' is actually of Chi Mi Na Morbheana while 'b' is The Mist Covered Mountains of Home, pipe version. The tune I use can be heard here, sung by Wendy Arrowsmith. She sings a few different lyrics but the melody is what I used. Wndy |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 22 Feb 10 - 07:15 AM Mulv, I can't play the YouTube version for some reason, but I will keep trying. The following is almost exactly the tune I use, the first part being the chorus and the second obviously the verse. X:323 T:Mist Covered Mountains, The L:1/8 M:6/8 K:Am A3 A3|e2 e e>dB|G3 G3|B>AB A>GA| c3 d3|e>fg B>AG|A>Be d>cB|A3 A3:| e3 e3|d>eg e>dB|G2 G d2 B|e2 e d>cB| A3 c3|d>eg B>AG|A>Be d>cB|A3 A3:| (only the F is sharp) This is almost the same as Jack's second tune, Mist Covered Mountains, as played as a pipe tune and is not the same as Chi Mi na Morbheanna as is sometimes claimed, the second part of the tune being different. I can only see a VERY vague resemblance to The Mist on the Mountains but would not say they are remotely similar under any form of scrutiny. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Feb 10 - 06:26 AM Almost identical?
The strongest I'd put it is that Crehan's tune might be vaguely inspired by the Scottish one. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 10 - 04:10 AM "Junior Crehan's tune has no resemblance to the Scottish one that I can see." Junior's 'Mist Covered Mountain' is almost identical to 'Mist Covered Mountains of Home' but in jig time, although he said was never aware of the similarities. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: GUEST,mulv Date: 21 Feb 10 - 12:24 PM Might better explain what I meant about BD's singing of the song by reffering to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTdb6sEl0gI&feature=related part of Mark Knoeffler show,amazingly.The first set is the Mist Covered Mountains - let's call it in 4 phases,A,B,C,A A is exactly as the chorus was sung B is exactly as verses 1,2 & 4 were sung C is almost exactly how I recall verse 3 being sung only all substantially faster than the youtube clip. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 20 Feb 10 - 09:14 AM There is a version by the Fureys which pretty well mangles the song with sleeve notes saying "....English soldiers burnt down the houses while Irish defenders huddled like cattle ...". The song is about the Scottish Highland Clearances and the victims were abused by their own people, Scottish factors for Highland lairds. The Duke of Sutherland, one of the worst 'Clearers' however was an Englishmen. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: GUEST,Betsy Date: 19 Feb 10 - 08:04 PM Jim thanks for putting up with the great disection of your wonderful song. I read all the words ,but still, there was a part (I'm sure sang by Barbara Dickson) that went ......"Where are the men we call heroes". It may well be my shitty memory or perhaps she alter or add a verse to a part of the song. Nice to talk about a great song and thanks for adding all the backround . Cheers Betsy |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:26 PM I haven't heard Barbara's version but I've noticed some singers confuse my version of the tune with Chi Mi na Morbheana. I use, basically, the the pipe tune Mist Covered Mountains where the verse is different to the chorus and I have changed the melody occasionally to suit the mood of the words. The first recording of the song was in the mid sixties but I remember seeing Barbara Dixon in the Troubadour, London, about 1963/64 in the company of Anne Briggs when we all ran about together. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: GUEST,mulv Date: 19 Feb 10 - 04:19 PM Fabulous air and lyrics,which I've sung for many years now.I still feel very proud and enriched by bragging that I first heard Barbara Dickson singing this very song (with guitar)in our local Malvern folk club in either late '72 or early '73 and should still have the original taped recording somewhere in the house.This was,of course,when she were a 'proper folkie' (though she didn't have a beard !).She used lots of excellent material back then (e.g. Archie Fisher's 'Shipyard Apprentice')and was clearly destined. Just wondering - if Jim gets to read this - about the air for 3rd verse.Difficult to explain (since,though I can sing,I'm no musician)-but BD sang a slightly different air to the first two lines of that verse (than to any of the other verses) which,to fit the air/music scanned/sang as Where was our proud Highland mettle o' men, All once so famed in battle etc (back to the same tune as other verses) The tune change was also included in part of the original pipe tune.And the change just broke up the song to give it an extra 'lift' and catch the listener's attention even more.Has Jim or anybody else heard it sung in that sort of manner ? Or is that commonplace ? Thanks for any help - and thanks to Jim for writing it in the first place.Of course,if Barbara Dickson IS reading this,she's quite welcome to comment !! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: GUEST,Alyce Date: 27 Oct 09 - 05:10 PM I remember my grade three teacher, and now close friend, Sine McKenna taught us this song as part of our first music lesson. It has always stayed with me- its such a powerful song. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hush, hush time to be sleeping From: Jim McLean Date: 18 Sep 09 - 07:34 PM PS Alba Nuadh, those are all the verses I wrote. Cheers, Jim |
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Subject: DT Corr: Smile In Your Sleep (Hush, Hush) (McLean) From: Jim McLean Date: 18 Sep 09 - 07:32 PM This is from Joe Offer's posting of October 2003 (with a slight correction).
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