BS: Cultural genocide

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Musket
Date: 04 Jun 15 - 07:11 PM

Dunno. Reading bullshit from a PE teacher seems to be the norm here. Why would anything you read piss you off?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jun 15 - 07:38 PM

Because Musktwat the three have your view and that is it - signed , sealed and delivered.

Only problem is for you collection of twats - it isn't.

And the likes of myself, Keith A, Akenaton and quite a few others are here to challenge you and keep you honest, and time after time and time time after time you keep ducking. Carry on you are only proving what complete and utter wankers you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jun 15 - 08:28 PM

You regressing back to third form, T-Bird? Sure reads like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jun 15 - 09:27 PM

Hell freezes over, pigs fly, now this: United Nations Secretary-General condemns rocket firing from Gaza into Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 06:21 AM

"Can you say that every single historian, even by your exacting standards, agree with your points?"

No, and can you show me anybody apart from you lot who has ever made that claim? I believe the phrase originally used was that there was a "consenus" among historians writing about the First World War in recent times. Now to my understanding of that it qualifies what group of historians we are talking about - (Not every single historian - your invention) - the group we are referring to are/were all historians whose area of specialisation IS the First World War, whereas the historians your "camp" dragged up were not. Historians writing post 1970 on the "Great War" had far, far more detailed information than any who wrote on the subject previously - yet all that has to be discounted and we are all expected to sing from the same hymn sheet based on "Made Up Shit" swallowed "Hook-Line-and-Sinker" by you, the Musktwats, Steve Shaw, Jim Carroll and Raggytash. Got news for you Gnome - it ain't going to happen. You lot keep coming out with your myths, misrepresentations, half-truths and lies and you will be pulled up on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 06:57 AM

Musket,
Err. Keith.. The UK is one of many EU countries supporting UN censure of Israel.

Wrong.
made up.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 07:02 AM

Yep - Got me there, Teribus. I accept that the 'all historians' is purely from memory. Keith may or may not have said it and I am not going to trawl through all that crap.

You lot keep coming out with your myths, misrepresentations, half-truths and lies and you will be pulled up on them.

Pretty much like the "myths, misrepresentations, half-truths and lies" that you are coming out with about me and I am pulling you up on by any chance? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 07:41 AM

Hardly Gnome - your card is well and truly marked

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 08:01 AM

By whom? You? Hehehe. Thanks for the laugh, anyway, back to the point. I take it you have not found any evidence of your accusations yet or you would have provided links. I don't even expect you to withdraw now. It is enough that everyone has seen that you are happy to lie about other people in a feeble endeavour to prove yourself. To coin a phrase from your mate, you lose :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 08:11 AM

Keith has made the "all historians" claim multiple times in multiple threads.

Fact.

At times, he has modified that to "all living historians.

Fact.

vide the "Christmas Truce", "Armistace Day" and "Irish Famine" threads, among many others.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 08:24 AM

No, fair's fair, Greg. I cannot provide links to Keith saying "all historians", to prove that is indeed what he said. I am therefore happy to concede that my memory could be at fault and I withdraw the accusation. Teribus cannot provide any links to me "ignoring historical fact, logic and reasoning" but still insists that I do so. It is there for all to see so I cannot understand why he does not withdraw it. I am no psychologist so will not speculate why he persists but I am happy to let let him continue digging if he wants :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 08:40 AM

Indian Act facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 08:58 AM

It was a very long discussion and short hand was required.
I always acknowledged that the historian and Tory grandee Niall Ferguson believed Britain should have stayed out of the war.
It hardly needs saying that most historians have written nothing about that period at all, so are not included in the statement, "all historians."
I also made clear that I only included professional historians whose work could be found in libraries and bookshops, and was recognised by other historians.
I did say "all historians" but it was always clear what I meant by that.
It was not necessary to spell it out every time, every day for over a year.

I also requested at least 2 or three times a week for a year and a half that someone find such a historian with differing views.
Still none.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 09:10 AM

Not disputing any of that, Keith, but always worth pointing out that by "All Historians" you actually meant all historians that have had work published, have done research in the last 30 years, you consider to be eminent, that have no political axe to grind, that can be found in book shops, excluding on-line bookshops and are recognised as historians only by the group as just detailed. Which is what I meant by your exacting standards. Glad to see you say that you did say all historians though. Means my memory is not at fault after all. Maybe you can now help Teribus find where I disregarded any facts or disputed any of your three statements?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 09:30 AM

s find where I disregarded any facts or disputed any of your three statements?

You openly supported those who did, even when they were actually caught making fake quotes, while ridiculing me for reading and believing the historians.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 09:39 AM

I thought this was you Dave.
The threads cut off before you came out.
It does suggest you disagreed with my points.



Subject: RE: WWI, was No-Man's Land
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 14 - 05:11 PM

Consensus

noun, plural consensuses.
1. majority of opinion:
The consensus of the group was that they should meet twice a month.
2. general agreement or concord; harmony.

No mention of anyone studying anything. Just a majority opinion. Like the majority opinion that while most historians may agree on some points; Keith still talks through his arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 09:49 AM

Not me Keith. Even when logged out I used the consistent Guest name of Dave the Gnome. And I never went in anywhere to come out of...

while ridiculing me for reading and believing the historians.

I have already said I ridiculed you for coming across as pompous and arrogant. Still do. Nothing else.

So, maybe you can now help Teribus find where I disregarded any facts or disputed any of your three statements?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 10:37 AM

I think you misremember Dave.
You actually told me in a thread that it was you, posting as anon Guest, who introduced Neil Faulkner.

Are you now saying that you never posted to WW1 threads before Christmas?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 10:46 AM

I may well misremember, Keith, just as others do. I cannot recall that conversation but that does not mean it did not happen. Maybe your memory is better than mine but without the benefit of evidence we will never know. To be honest, even if it was so, you are clutching at straws bringing up posts by un-named guests who may or may not be me which do not disregard any facts anyway. Surely you can recall the fact that I said, often, that I do not dispute your three statements? Or is your memory selective on this?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 10:55 AM

The WW1 threads cut off on Xmas Eve and no Daves are among the contributors, so no point in you asking for examples of anything from you now.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 11:02 AM

I remember that you never discussed history on those history threads.
You said that you only went on them to mock and ridicule me, and that I should live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 11:03 AM

So, no examples of how I disregarded any facts then? What a surprise. Are you not even willing to confirm that you remember me stating specifically that I did not dispute your statements? My single contention in any of those threads was that you could not say that all historians agreed with you. You have pointed out that by all historians you meant only those who satisfy your exacting criteria, who's work you have actually read, agreed with you. I call that a win-win. You win with your definition of all historians. I win with my definition of all historians. Good news all round I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 11:07 AM

I have already said I ridiculed you for coming across as pompous and arrogant. Still do. Nothing else.

Well, there actually IS something else Dave: ignorant.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 11:09 AM

Dave, when you announced your real identity, I asked you, "Why all the subterfuge?"
You replied that there was no subterfuge, and that the mods were aware of what you were doing.

Coming back to you now?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 11:21 AM

No - Sorry. To be honest such things are so trivial that there is no reason I would have given it a second thought let alone remember it months later. If it was around Christmas time, it was when my Dad started to go downhill so petty little squabbles would have been even less significant than before.

You say you remember these things yet cannot remember that I said I did not dispute your statements? Maybe you consider that as insignificant as I consider your points. Fair enough. Luckily I find it marvellous that there is such a broad spectrum of thought processes :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 01:11 PM

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 04:56 AM

"why is it wrong for me to believe them (historians) and put their views here."

Equally why is wrong for me not to believe them and put my views here? The opinions of historians are still opinions, not facts. Opinions can and always will be disputed.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 02:51 PM

The point being? Still no disputed facts. As I said, opinions are to be disputed. Facts are not and I have not disregarded any. Really scraping the barrel now. Why bother?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 04:26 PM

"You say you remember these things yet cannot remember that I said I did not dispute your statements?"

"Equally why is wrong for me not to believe them and put my views here? "

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 05:23 PM

Why, certainly, I'll have your whelk. How do we do it? Volume!

See, I can make less sense than you. What on earth are you on about?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Musket
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 06:41 PM

I said that The UN contains EU countries and that there are over 45 UN resolutions condemning Israel.

Keith said I am making it up

Some say good old Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Musket
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 06:42 PM

Some say fuck him

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 07:09 PM

57 Muslim majority voting entities in the UN.....doh!

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 15 - 07:15 PM

Don't forget this is the same UN that aids and abets attacks against Israel by terrorists in Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 04:35 AM

Musket,
I said that The UN contains EU countries and that there are over 45 UN resolutions condemning Israel.

They are UNHRC resolutions and EU countries do not support them.
Only resolutions about settlements, not about human rights abuses, war crimes or massacres because that is all made up propaganda.

Dave, you asked for proof that you disputed my views, which are just the findings of the historians.
I showed you stating that you do not believe the historians.
Like Musket, you think you know more more about history than they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Musket
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 04:40 AM

Unlike The UK and Iran, all the rest have totally secular governments.

Two can play at that game. My statement above is naive but technically true. A bit like your counting votes based on the majority religion of the inhabitants.

Means fuck all either way.

The UN is The UN. Creaky but holding together and every country with a vote gets to vote. If The UN censures a country for attacking beyond its borders, segregating its population on cultural grounds and denying decent water supply to its neighbours, then noting its actions is what UN does.

Impotently until US politicians stop being bank rolled by Israeli interests, but The USA still thinks it has a world veto rather than a moral deficit.

Israel needs to be made safe. Guaranteeing that safety should be an international effort, not relying on the militaristic fools running the country and winding up its neighbours whilst playing the holocaust card. It is rather repugnant. Their "I thought he was going to hit me so I hit him back first" excuse merely leads to the most awful repression of the people of Palestine. Any wonder they hit back? Been there? I fucking well have. Many times and with humanitarian NGOs sorting out the problems Israel and The USA perpetuate.

My good friend Musket has been to Israel many times and notes how opinions are not so clear cut either. Repression using religion as an excuse. Where do we hear that I wonder?

A bit of a dog's dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 04:52 AM

My case was that proper democratic governments know that all that stuff about war crimes and massacres is false propaganda from Isreal's enemies.
You gullible lefty dupes lap it all up, but informed governments know better.

The fact that some of the nastiest regimes on Earth can unite to get resolutions though UNHRC does not challenge my case at all.
I absolutely acknowledge that it happens all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 05:03 AM

"The Holocaust card" unbelievable !

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 05:45 AM

The whole statement shows complete ignorance of the situation in the Middle East.

fools running the country and winding up its neighbours whilst playing the holocaust card.

As you say, unbelievable!

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 06:19 AM

Dave, you asked for proof that you disputed my views

Absolute perfect example of straw man, Keith. I asked for no such thing. I asked for examples of how I disregarded any facts, not how I disputed your views. On top of which the post you pasted states quite clearly that I was disagreeing with opinions, not facts. As you well know I have never disputed your three infamous statements but you seem to be ignoring that.

Still, at least you tried but there is still no substance to Teribus's accusations. No cigar this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 06:59 AM

Not unbelievable at all, totally in keeping with the usual bile emanating from this hatemonger.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 07:53 AM

Dave,
I asked for examples of how I disregarded any facts, not how I disputed your views.

"find where I disregarded any facts or disputed any of your three statements?"

" find where I disregarded any facts or disputed any of your three statements?"

(That one was repeated twice, 9.10 and 9.49 AM 5th June)

"I said, often, that I do not dispute your three statements?"

"Are you not even willing to confirm that you remember me stating specifically that I did not dispute your statements?"

"yet cannot remember that I said I did not dispute your statements?"

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 08:14 AM

No idea what you are on about, Keith. I have not disputed your statements. The post you pasted does not. Like I have often said, we seem to speak a different language.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 10:38 AM

informed governments know better.

Only living, eminent governments that write for the tabloid press and that are available in bookshops, I presume.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST,R Sole
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 11:01 AM

The good news is that with nothing to lose, Obama has started questioning the tactics of Israel. About time too.

There is a huge difference between Israel and Judaism. Those who mix the two play straight in to the hands of the hawks running Israel and its military objectives. When Jack Straw, as Foreign Secretary accused Israel of "playing the holocaust card" the reaction was similar to the reaction Mudcat members get for pointing out the same.

A very poor situation, and to read so much bias against the many countries making up The Middle East, and even in the disgusting hate filled words of some on here, (Muslim countries!) it really shows how shallow people can get.

I am back on Mudcat after forgetting it existed for a couple of years, but saddened to see the same tabloid inspired sensationalist comments. Some people, especially Teribus, Keith A of Hertford and Akenaton even assuming I am one of the those they shout at!

Their lives must be so shallow and unfulfilling. Has it ever occurred to any of them that it may be more than their usual detractors who question their input?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 11:54 AM

Meanwhile, back at the OP...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDU0yVhx18A

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 11:59 AM

Ditto.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 12:09 PM

Dave,
I have not disputed your statements. The post you pasted does not.

The post I pasted does.
My views are those of the historians.
That is where I got them.
If you disbelieve the historians, as your post stated you do, then obviously you reject my views too.

Guest R Sole, why did you change your name when you returned to Mudcat?
Please tell us, R Sole, what your old name was so that we can compare your past and present as you say you have done to us.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST,gnu on Google
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 12:10 PM

Ditto ditto... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-votes-no-as-un-native-rights-declaration-passes-1.632160

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST,>;-)
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 12:24 PM

Oooohhhh... fuck it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 01:14 PM

""The Holocaust card" unbelievable !"
HOLOCAUST CARD
Only the readiness of some people to use it - sickening
Jim Carroll