Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 04:52 PM

[Sigh] "God help America" or something like that, now quasi-obligatory during baseball's Seventh Inning Stretch.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 03:54 PM

Talking about Irving Berlin.
Didn't he, in the 40s? compose some USA patriotic song?
I guess that will endure!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 03:35 PM

OK, here we have a definition of "legacy".

"something that is a part of your history or that remains from an earlier time"

Now, if am right, and the Zoo song is the only song of Tom's that will survive in the public's consciousness for a long time, then it will be his legacy.
His name will appear along side the title of the song in song books.
When, played on the radio ( or future equivalent) a dj/presenter will now and then name the composer of the song

Let's take another example,

Irving Berlin is a giant of the popular song BUT a hundred years from now, I would bet that, of all his countless songs, only "White Christmas" ( if we are still celebrating Christmas) will be remembered in a big way.

For the general public, it will be all that is left of his great music legacy

Of course, there will always be a revival of interest in songs from an earlier time.

"The Entertainer" was amazingly plucked from a dusty obscurity when used in "The Sting" and gave birth to a huge revival of interest in Scott Joplin and ragtime music.

Tom's music could be "rediscovered" a hundred years after his death.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 02:27 PM

Well, let's try another example: Patty and Mildred Hill's best known song--far better known than the Zoo Song--has nothing to do with their legacy. I doubt that they can even be said to HAVE a legacy, since their (disputed) composition of [the melody of] "Happy Birthday to You" is known by a miniscule percentage of those who sing it. Or so I believe.

Or . . . Dave Van Ronk is hardly renowned for his largest seller, "Bamboo," which made him a small fortune (on a Peter, Paul, and Mary album).

They both made a lot of money for various people (and I'm very happy for Tom Paxton, too) but I don't think they did much for their composers' legacies.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 01:58 PM

Well, I'm the wrong side of 70!

The "Chinese Ears" is clearly aimed at the fact that Chinese poster Jason will have been exposed to huge amount of Chinese music which might make him more open to the Jimmy Newman "awkward" ( to my ears) chord/melody connection.

As to legacy! The Zoo song is surely the one song that has the best longevity prospect of all of Tom's compositions.

It's nowhere near Tom's best song ( in my opinion, ) and it's not the most loved but it will endure because of its subject matter/ target audience,

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 01:08 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to agree with Tattie Bogle, the ad hominem and innuendo kind of spoil the fun:

"Wrong side of 60," "Chinese ears," "I think you simply can't admit you're wrong. Not a very healthy trait. Interesting," "I'm beginning to think too much exposure to folk music dulls a person's reasoning faculties," "a number [sic] of Mudcat posters live in a 'folk bubble' and need to get out . . . more..."

And

"What is now interesting, is why posters [sic] are resisting the fact that the Zoo song will undoubtedly be Tom's most well known song.
Is it because they don't want to acknowledge that Tom's main lasting legacy will be a "silly" children's song and not one of his great love songs or social comment songs[?]"

I do take issue with this: Even though the Zoo Song is the most sung and best known Paxton song, it does not follow that it will be his "lasting legacy." Chuck Berry's sole million-seller was "My Ding-a-ling," and as a popular bawdy party song, it was probably sung all the way through by more people, if not performers, than any other.

But basically I don't get the irritation: If it's a matter of opinion, then everyone gets one vote, right? If it's a matter. of fact, then why sweat others' mistakes? It's like getting worked up at someone's incorrect spelling or punctuation.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 11:37 AM

Tunesmith, please stop it! This is cyber-bullying.
What IS unhealthy is not respecting others' opinions, or reading their posts properly.
Over and out.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 05:07 PM

Tattie Bogle,

Proof! Just use the reasoning power that God gave you.

I stopped singing The Last Thing in folk clubs back in the late 60s ( it had been driven into the ground by then...along with Blowin' in the Wind!)

Even you admitted that your grandchildren know the Zoo song!

And, millions and millions of children around the world will have been introduced to the song in the past 50 years.

Have, I ask you, millions and millions of children been introduced to The Last Thing in the past 50 yrs.

Youtube viewing figures must surely be a guide to how well known the song is.

The Zoo song has had millions and millions and millions of more viewing than The Last Thing.

And, as you pointed out there are other songs, not written by Tom, with the title Last Thing on my mind.

And, guess what! They have much larger viewing figures that Tom's song.

I think you simply can't admit that you are wrong.
Not a very healthy trait.



Intersting

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 04:34 PM

All I am saying is that "The Zoo Song" is A LOT more well known than "The Last Thing."
Proof, GUEST, Tunesmith, Proof? Just your opinion: different from mine: you are getting into elder abuse now with your comments re over-60s! Lay off!
I took my grandchildren (ages 6 and 3) to the Zoo just 2 days ago: they don't they know that song: not taught in their school or nursery AFAIK. Grannie can sing it to them, but they prefer "Wheels on the Bus" and "Coorie Doon".
Final answer: I'll say no more, as it's getting just a wee bit ridiculous!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 03:25 PM

I still see "Jimmy Newman" as an experiment that went wrong.
I wouldn't say that I only like pleasant sounding songs e.g. I love a lot of blues music and that can be very edgy but I would say that both Tom, and Phil's most loved songs have strong, plaintive melodies/ chords.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 02:58 PM

Tunesmith, I believe that the reason why Tom threw that awkward F chord in "Jimmy Newman" was because the song was meant to be written awkward, as the guy in the song was facing an awkward situation.
Of course that song is not one of those pleasant-to-the-ear kind of songs, and it shouldn't be. It's pretty much like "Crucifixion" by Phil Ochs, done in a less technical way.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 01:12 PM

Jason, "Jimmy Newman" should be a very famous song. and the fact that it's not, I believe, is down to the awkward - on the ear, chord movements.
I wonder if your " Chinese" ear is more open to that particular sound.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 12:39 PM

Yes Tunesmith, I'll agree with you on that. I've seen a homemade video of a Chinese kid, about 5-yr-old, dancing to the Zoo song sung by an unknown female singer!

By the way, I have a 80's songbook published in China, which has "What Did You Learn in School Today?" marked as written by "Woody Gathrie": http://ddpro.ucoz.com/tabs/07.png

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 12:33 PM

And I'll agree that it was those "awkward" F major chords that made Jimmy Newman such a great song.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 12:03 PM

Jason, I was going to mention that the Zoo song is used all over the world to help younger children learn English.
Apart from being a fun song, the use of actions would reinforce the meaning of the words/ lyrics.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmth
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 11:38 AM

Oh dear! Elmore, you're missing the bloody point.

How the heck can you compare the odd concert performance of the song ( probably sung to a bunch of people the wrong side of 60 yrs old) with the day by day, year by year, encounters that countless numbers of children, parents and grand-parents have with the Zoo song.

I'm beginning to think that too much exposure to folk music dulls a persons reasoning faculties.

BTW, if the Zoo song was performed at ANY concert ( from the Proms to a heavy metal show ) I bet MOST of the audience could sing along with it...and waves their arms like an elephant's trunk!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 11:33 AM

Aach, yeah. Even some children here in China know the Zoo song.

Not many here know "Last Thing...", and 99% of those who know, only knew it because of the Llewyn Davis film.

JXW

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Elmore
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 11:24 AM

Haven't heard Tom play the Zoo Song in concert in decades. He never fails to play "The Last Thing". The audience knows all the words, not just the chorus.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 09:30 AM

All I am saying is that "The Zoo Song" is A LOT more well known than " The Last Thing."
As to the artistic merits of the two songs, well that's a different question.

The "Zoo Song" is terrific. A beautifully written song that really engages children.
Today, all over the world, children will be swinging an arm in lieu of a trunk, and pretending to scratch themselves like a monkey.

"The Last Thing.." is one of the great "lost love" songs.

In closing, it's clear to me, that a number of mudcat posters live in a "folk bubble" and should get out into "the real world" a bit more.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 07:52 AM

I've no resistance to the Zoo Song's relative fame, just to depreciating that of "The Last Thing on my Mind" to make the case. Being his best known song is quite different from being the song he is best known for. As I said, I don't care for TLTOMM--I think the singer lets himself off all too easily--but I do think it's in The Great American Songbook for keeps.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmth
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 03:33 AM

What is now interesting, is why posters are resisting the fact that the Zoo song will undoubtedly be Tom's most well known song.
Is it because they don't want to acknowledge that Tom's main lasting legacy will be a "silly" children's song and not one of his great love songs or social comment songs.

The point is that the Zoo sung is current. As current as today. And, it will keep being introduced to every emerging new generation of kids...probably for ever.

Today, it will be sung by parents to their children; it will be played in cars on the way to school, and IT WILL be played/sung in schools... all over the world.

"The Last Thing" can't match that!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 08:40 PM

Also.....just sayin'.... I found 21 different singers of TLTOMM on Youtube - not all folk singers by a long chalk, nor all back in the 1960s, and I know of others who have covered it. Several versions of Tom himself singing it, and even a reggae version. 3 other songs by the same title, but obviously not the same song.
We have a gig on Mon 2nd Oct, at which we shall sing TLTOMM to a very mixed, non-folkie audience. Might also throw in the Zoo song to see which of the 2 gets the most joining in. So watch this space!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 07:36 PM

No, Last Thing on My Mind seems to be known by a huge number of people, folkies or not! And probably more people know more of the total complement of words than they do of the Zoo song! Don't quite know how you're going to prove your point Tunesmith, nor I mine, so let's not start a war over it...... life's too short! Meantime Trump, etc......! Time to rake up "Buy a gun for your son" instead?

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 07:28 PM

I thought I'd check out YouTube.
There is only one version of The Last thing... " to have just over one million views ((surprisingly it's by the The Seekers " ..from the 60s!

However,there many, many versions of the Zoo Song with over one million views, including one version with over seven million views.

Just saying...

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 07:13 PM

Well, I was talking from a British perspective, but, just think, tomorrow, it schools all over the English speaking world, The Zoo Song, will be played and sung.

Btw,The Zoo Song is still current - with children everywhere, whereas, for your average listener, "The last thing on my mind " is now a period piece known overwhelmingly only by people of a certain age!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 03:38 PM

Jimmy Gilmer and the Fireballs did "Bottle of Wine."

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 02:09 PM

Who was the garage-band from the 'Sixties who had a hit single
with "Bottle of Wine" ?

That was my first Tom Paxton song.
I still rejoice at the complete gleeful abandon of that performance.
And yes, I DID pay attention to the words


"... when you gonna let me get sober?
Leave me alone, lemme go home,
Lemme go home and start over."

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 01:35 PM

FYI, Bob Dylan once said his favorite Tom Paxton song was 'Annie's Going to Sing Her Song'.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 01:21 PM

"Why would non- folkies know 'The Last thing on my mind'?
Was it ever a hit? How often would the song be played on any tv/radio show?"

Maybe they listened to country radio in 1967 when Dolly Parton and Porter Wagoner's version hit #6 on the charts?

The song's wikipedia page lists over 40 cover versions, from Harry Belafonte's to one in German, including crossover folkies like Joan Baez and Judy Collins, as well as country and pop singers John Denver, Neil Diamond, Glenn Campbell, Graham Parsons, Willy Nelson, Johnny Cash, and Pat Boone.

I never much cared for it myself, but I heard that Doc Watson loved it, and not to take anything away from the zoo song, it was liked by a good variety of popular/talented singers and presumably their fans.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Elmore
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 10:22 AM

I think Tom's newer songs, those written in the last 15 years or so are every bit as well written as the golden oldies and deserve to be played and heard.

Subject: RE: "Awkward" chords in 'Jimmy Newman'
From: GUEST,Boot Leg
Date: 24 Sep 17 - 10:12 AM

Tunesmith,

I think the "awkward" chords in 'Jimmy Newman' that you referred to, are the bII major chords in every line - to be exact, the F chords in the song which is in the key of E.

Such chords are very unusual to use in songs. Tom Paxton and Bob Gibson are the only two songwriters who have used bII major chords that I'm aware of.

Contrary to your opinion, I believe it's none other than those F chords that made the song truly great, a real masterpiece. Those chords create a discordant, anxious, somewhat maniac atmosphere, which just suits the lyrics perfectly.

Another similar use of unusual chords to suit the lyrics by Tom Paxton is in 'I Don't Want Your Pardon'.

Boot Leg

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmth
Date: 23 Sep 17 - 06:12 AM

I wasn't talking "most popular" but - in the UK - "most well known".
Moving on.
One of Tom's songs that, I feel, needs revisiting, by Tom, is "Jimmy Newman".
Now, idea wise, and lyrically, this song is a masterpiece BUT I think the song fails to be really great by having a number of "awkward" chord changes the song.
I bet Tom was experimenting when he inserted those "awkward" chords, and was trying to escape obvious "folky" chord progressions.
But, unfortunately he ended up with a jarring effect that, for me, prevents the song being a true masterpiece.

Of course, Tom(now he's got more time on his hands) could have a go at a rewrite.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (nope)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 17 - 03:20 AM

I think it's hard to tell which Paxton sog is most popular. I think it's clear, though, that his 1964 debut album, Ramblin' Boy, has a good chunk of his most popular work. I put my favorites in bold

1. "A Job of Work" – 2:44
2. "A Rumblin' in the Land" – 2:59
3. "When Morning Breaks" – 2:55
4. "Daily News" – 2:17
5. "What Did You Learn in School Today?" – 1:44
6. "The Last Thing on My Mind" – 3:05
7. "Harper" – 2:52
8. "Fare Thee Well, Cisco" – 3:04
9. "I Can't Help But Wonder Where I'm Bound" – 3:41
10. "High Sheriff of Hazard" (Paxton, Traditional) – 2:10
11. "My Lady's a Wild Flying Dove" – 3:11
12. "Standing on the Edge of Town" – 1:43
13. "I'm Bound for the Mountains and the Sea" – 3:04
14. "Goin' to the Zoo" – 2:29
15. "Ramblin' Boy" – 3:59

I'd dare to say that almost all of his "greatest hits" are on that album. Two other favorites of mine, "The Marvelous Toy" and "Bottle of Wine," came out early in Paxton's career. He's still writing great songs, but most of his hits came out early.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 Sep 17 - 05:09 PM

Why would non- folkies know " The Last thing on my mind?" .
Was it ever a hit? How often would the song be played on any tv/radio show?
But, every year the Zoo song will be played to countless children. And, sung by countless parents to their kids.
It's not even a close contest.

Just had a thought. Sing "Mamas taking us to the zoo tomorrow" to any stranger in the street and ask them if they know the song.
Then sing the first line of " Last thing..." and ask them if they know that song.

The Zoo song will win hands down.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Sep 17 - 04:29 PM

Tunesmith, shall we set up a poll? Guess it depends what age you were when you first encountered his songs: I was already in my early 20s, well past primary school! My grandchildren have the CD and book of "The Marvellous Toy", signed by Tom himself. And I think a lot of non-folkies know/recognise Last Thing on My Mind.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 22 Sep 17 - 12:24 PM

Did a gig in the street (!) with him in West Virginia back in the 1980's. He is a very nice man, who never forgot his roots.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 Sep 17 - 07:05 AM

Tattie Bogle said
"I'd have thought his singularly best-known/most popular song in the UK was "Last Thing on my Mind", tho' the Zoo song is also a favourite"

Well, I would suggest a huge percentage of the UK population will encounter "Going to the Zoo" during their primary school years.
Not so for "Last Thing on my Mind".
In folk clubs, of course, "Last Thing..." would be the one Tom Paxton song that you're sure to come across.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 Sep 17 - 07:04 PM

I seem to remember that he did a couple of "Farewell Tours" maybe as long as 10 years ago, but then posted on his website, "Forget the Farewell Tours - I'm having a ball!" and carried on! But guess this time it could be for real.
Got my first taste of his music when one of my flatmates brought me back one of his LPs from the USA back in 1966: that was me hooked. Saw him live several times in the early days, then a very long gap, until several Scottish tours in the last 10 years: Linlithgow, Edinburgh, Glasgow: always a heart-warming experience.
I'd have thought his singularly best-known/most popular song in the UK was "Last Thing on my Mind", tho' the Zoo song is also a favourite.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: GUEST,bignige
Date: 21 Sep 17 - 01:42 PM

I saw him in B'ham UK when he did say it was his last tour, but then a year later he was back in the UK doing a few concerts with a couple of female folkies (can't remember their names), can't keep a good down.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 20 Sep 17 - 06:37 PM

First time I saw Tom Paxton perform live was in the legendary Glasgow Apollo, the last time was in the intimacy of Greenock Arts Guild theatre where I bought his cd - my first ever cd! I didn't even know how to open it for an autograph!! (thank you Tom for doing that for me)
But - Tom Paxton's songs have been important throughout my singing life, even when I didn't know who had composed them or who Tom Paxton was!
What an amazingly gifted man. What a privilege to share his songs.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 Sep 17 - 12:19 PM

I bet, certainly in the UK, that his "Going to the Zoo" is his most well known song.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: GUEST,um, but he is touring
Date: 20 Sep 17 - 12:00 AM

http://www.tompaxton.com/tour

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: Elmore
Date: 25 Nov 15 - 10:45 PM

Went to his Facebook page yesterday and found him singing an old favorite, "My Lady's a Wild Flying Dove." on Sept. 23. Damn if he didn't sound as good as he did in the sixties.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 15 - 04:27 AM

I was just listening to Tom's album 6 last Sunday. He is not really quitting... Just not doing lenthy world tours anymore. He will still appear at folk festivals and go on short tours.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Nov 15 - 08:08 AM

I'm glad to have seen him when I did. He was in top form. A magical evening shared with good friends.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: banjoman
Date: 24 Nov 15 - 06:28 AM

Had the privilege of seeing Tom on his first UK tour (1965?) and his last this year and many concerts in between. Glad that he is still writing and able to spend time with his family. Sad that his wife is no longer with him but I am sure she is looking down on him and enjoying his music as we all do.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: Elmore
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 01:22 PM

Saw Tom play many times in a variety of venues, including Carnegie Hall on the night one of his daughters was born.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: Newport Boy
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 12:33 PM

We saw Tom in May in Bristol. He announced then that this would be his last visit to UK, so we were pleased to have booked that one. He was just as good as the first time we heard him on his first trip in 1965.

One of the best concerts was in 1984/5 in support of the striking miners in South Wales. I have spoken to him on a number of occasions and always been impressed by his willingness to spend time with every individual. Apart from being a great songwriter, he has been a better ambassador for the USA than most other visitors.

Phil

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 11:37 AM

Last Thing on My Mind by Tom Paxton and Liam Clancy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWMiFieDwsA

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring.
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 12:32 AM

We were especially honored that Tom came out of "retirement" so soon to join us last night at Jean Ritchie's memorial concert in Greenwich Village - just a wonderful human being, fun to be with, sing with, and especially listen to!

Dan