BS: Damian Green

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 10:40 AM

Jim and Keith, you've done it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:33 AM

"I do not know what question you are talking about, and I am sure no-one else does"
You are either lying or very stupid Keith - pleaser do nort involve others in your lying stupidity
Try my question regarding the link "THEIR POLICY HERE"
"30 Dec 17 - 10:05 AM
I have answered your question - all incidents of antisemitism appall me - I don't believe there have been any major examples of antisemitism in the Labour Party recently and if there have they are virtually impossible to distinguish from your own antisemitism of regarding all criticism of Israel being an attack on the Jewish people
Of the two you mentioned - Livingston stated a historical fact known to Jews and non-jews alike - maybe not a tactfult time to do so, but that doesn't make him an antisemite
Naz Shah actually quoted respected American Jewish political scientist, Norman Finkelstein, when she suggested that Jews move to America - the maps that accompanied her suggestion were actually his.
It was a gaffe made when she was a young woman - she apologised and withdrew it - end of story until it was used by the anti-semitic anti-BDS crowd in their efforts to absolve Israel from its ongoing racist criminality
The real anti-semites here are those who accuse the Jewish People of being responsible for Israel's crimes by making criticism of those crimes "anti-semitic"
Count yourself firmly among that number
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:13 AM

Jim,
I do not know what question you are talking about, and I am sure no-one else does.
If you were serious you would just restate it.
I have promised to answer, but you are clearly afraid that.

You have ignored my question.
Here it is again,
"Now you say you are appalled by recent incidents of Labour anti-Semitism. Which ones appal you? Which do you still deny?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 06:03 AM

Just put it again and I will."
Nope Keith - no intention of being part of your attention seeking obsessiveness any more
= you know what it is and you are stalling for time
It is why you hastily departed the scene and hoped it would be forgotten as you always do
Kindly get a life - for your own sake - you have now become a permanent spectre haunting this particular feast
Nobody here cares what you (don't) think any more
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 04:52 AM

Steve,
Mail On Sunday has been crudely editing texts twixt Green and Maltby in Green's favour.

How do you know this?
They deny it and it will be easy to prove.

Jim,
Never fails Keith - if you find a question too difficult, pretend one hasn't been asked

I do not. I assume I missed it. I am willing to answer. Just put it again and I will.

I have never denied there was any antisemitism in the Labour Party or anywhere else

You denied every incident of Labour anti-Semitism. Now you say you are appalled be recent incidents. Which ones appal you? Which do you still deny?

Corbyin's position (on BDS) is laid out in the link you are spinelessly avoiding.

I know what it is.
Guardian,
"Jeremy Corbyn would be happy to buy goods from Israel and does not support a blanket boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) policy"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/13/jeremy-corbyn-does-not-support-boycott-of-israel-bds-movement

No British party supports BDS.
Nor does any EU state or any democracy.
You people here are political extremists beyond the fringe of reasonable politics in what you believe.
It is a travesty that you dominate this forum when you are so divorced from the beliefs of real people.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 04:34 AM

"There is no BDS in British politics."
Don't be more stupid than you ever are
BDS is a protest movement, non political humanists and politicians of all parties support it whatever stance their leaders take
Corbyin's position is laid out in the link you are spinelessly avoiding.
"Previously you have all denied there was any!"
I have never denied there was any antisemitism in the Labour Party or anywhere else - I said the antisemitic campaign you and Bobad have ridden over the years bears no relation to the age-old bigotry that had permeated this planet for millenia
It is people like you who are part of that - people who use the Jews as an excuse to carry out or defend political excesses - particularly despicable in the way it is being used by the present Friends of Donald Trump in Israel.
That was never a major problem within the Labour Party as you fanatically sought to prove it was
The protests against ethinc leansing and mass murder that are taking place in the Middle East were defended by the perpetrators and defenders by them and oyu hiding by the Jewish People and claiming that criticism of those mass killings and land seziure was "antisemitic" - an act of anitsemitism by definition
A few Labour members were unwise enough to take Israel's word for it and mistakenly swallow Israel's line that what was happening in Gaza was "Jewish", but once it was pointed out that it was simply right wing terrorism, they withdrew from that position and apologised
Since The Israeli Justice minister openly declared that to criticise Israel was @antisemitic' the Israeli regime became and openly declared state led by anti semites - by definition.
In the last week or so, its support for and adulation of Trump has placed that regime among the world's most extreme right wing states (if its actions hadn't put it there already that is)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 04:09 AM

"Here I am Jim."
Come and devour me with you "embarrassing question.""
Never fails Keith - if you find a question too difficult, pretend one hasn't been asked
Hope somebody gave you some self-respect for Christmas - you seem to have none otherwise
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 06:23 PM

Ahem. Sorry about that, but, well, you know...

I notice that the Mail On Sunday has been crudely editing texts twixt Green and Maltby in Green's favour. She's no fool. Another very bad move. These bubble politicos really do think they're invulnerable...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 02:31 PM

Right, you bastards. This is my bloody thread and I told youse not to rise to Keith's bait. Christ almighty knows why I mentioned it meself, but ONE MORE bloody antisemitism post and I'm getting the mods to shut this down*. If you want to discuss antisemitism start your own bloody thread (and see how long it lasts). Knock it off, y'all!

*Naturally, I'll have to ask nicely...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 01:38 PM

Keith - well.. if you don't laugh...

..and i most respect folk who can laugh at themselves...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 01:20 PM

Here I am Jim.
Come and devour me with you "embarrassing question."

You are funny PFR.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 01:17 PM

Jim,
I've just criticised Israel's anti BDS interference in British politics

There is no BDS in British politics. No party supports it.
You people are an unrepresentative fringe. It is a travesty that you dominate this forum.

"Labour's "entire" NEC, which includes Corbyn, was appalled by the incidents of Labour anti-Semitism, so why aren't you people?"
We are

Previously you have all denied there was any!
Which example appals you?
Shah's?
Livingstone's?
Do you all agree on this?

There are almost certainly anti semites in the Labour Party

Which ones have appalled you?

If you are closer to Labour's core policy than I am,

I am. Like Corbyn and the NEC I am appalled by incidents of Labour anti-Semitism. You people deny it all.
Like Labour I do not support BDS and regard it as bigotry.

Keith has gone silent but will pretend that an embarrassing question hasn't been asked

I must have missed it. Remind me please. I promise to answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 01:17 PM

Yeah - but it's nice to see the fear in their eyes up close
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 01:11 PM

Jim - not much of a chase really, when they come to us so willingly..

Like little mice walking up to hawks and owls, and squeaking as loud as they can

"here we are, come and devour us"...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 01:01 PM

"no wonder you guys like this thread so much."
Nah - it's the thrill of the chase - a humane replacement for a blood sport
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 11:55 AM

"Another classic anti-Semitic trope "
From you
Jews are now the loudest critics of what is happening to Israel in the hands of an extremist right wing regime
It is very noticeable that non of you people have cared to comment on the fact that Israel's leader has climbed into bed with the most dangerous right wing monster on the planet and is now considering honouring him in The Holy City
Wonder what the dead of Auschwitz that you people shelter behind
d would have had to say about that one - but then again - if one of them would have dared to speak out about it they would havce been branded an "antisemite"
That's how low you people have sunk
ANTSEMITE HONOURED BY ISRAEL
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 11:04 AM

Religion Porn
Animosity Sex

no wonder you guys like this thread so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 11:02 AM

the ethnic cleansing that is taking place in Palestine

Another classic anti-Semitic trope - do keep it up you're making my case quite brilliantly.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 11:00 AM

"Blaming Jews, thinly disguised as Right wing 'New Labour' prompted by the anti BDS campaign,"
Hiding behind the victims of the Holocaust to defend the ethnic cleansing that is taking place in Palestine is as despicable antisemitic as it gets
Keith has gone silent but will pretend that an embarrassing question hasn't been asked
Then he will complain that too many embarrassing questions have been asked and ask that they be put out one at a time so he can cope with them
Nothing as predictable as stupidity
Ji Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 10:57 AM

Bob - got anything to say about Damian Green.. in a thread concerning Damian Green...???

...as far as I know he's not Jewish...????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 10:54 AM

Oh look, it must be make-a-stupid-comment-day today.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 10:36 AM

I suspect if someone posted that they didn't like Jaffa Oranges Bobad would construe it as antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 10:19 AM

Blaming Jews, thinly disguised as Right wing 'New Labour' prompted by the anti BDS campaign, for what have been repeated, well-publicized acts of antisemitism by senior Labor Party members is itself anti-Semitic........period, full stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 10:05 AM

"But we never did."
Bobad just has - you have done so on numerous occasion especially in your persitant attacks on Labour's criticism of Israeli ethnic cleansing which you construed as "antisemitic"
"We both agree that it is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israel, "
I've just criticised Israel's anti BDS interference in British politics - Bobad immediately linked that to the Jews
"Don't be shy come right out and say it was the Jews."
Are you really so stupid as to deny something posted within the last half hour?
"Good, but I do not think you speak for Steve and the rest."
I condemn all antisemitism, wherever it comes from, just as I condemn antisemite like you who attempt to link criticism of the Labour Party with the Jewish people

There are almost certainly anti semites in the Labour Part as there are in every party, it is a question of how many there are
People like you use the Jewish People a political club by pretending there are more than there are.
ANTISEMITISM is a problem of the Risht, not the left
"You do kno that the Labour Party does not support BDS, regarding it as "bigotry."
I don't care what labour supports - I am not a member and I don't agree with everything they say
If you are closer to Labour's core policy than I am, perhaps you might like to express your support for THEIR POLICY HERE   
No?
Thought not!!
Now will do nicely
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 09:44 AM

You are trolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 09:39 AM

You are trolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 09:38 AM

Jim,
We are just as we are appalled at yours and Bobad's antisemitism in construing criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic

But we never did.
We both agree that it is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israel, as does Israel itself which embraces criticism from its free media and political opposition which no other country in the region has.

You say you too are appalled at Labour-anti-Semitism. Good, but I do not think you speak for Steve and the rest.

From Right wing 'New Labour' prompted by the anti BDS campaign

You do kno that the Labour Party does not support BDS, regarding it as "bigotry."
I am closer to the core beliefs and values of the party than you are. It is a travesty that the Far Left now dominate this forum when they have so little support in the eal world.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 09:38 AM

Just let Keith and bobad fester alone in their antisemitic rants, chaps (no, that wasn't a typo). I raised it only to highlight Keith's inconsistencies and hypocrisy in his demands for evidence in two different contexts. The bloody thing has long been a dead duck and we shouldn't fall for their efforts to revive it.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 09:17 AM

And now May has honoured four Tory timeserving brexiteer lackeys with knighthoods/damehoods, including the chairman of the 1922 Committee (who'll look after her if the other MPs decide to go for her jugular) whilst completely ignoring the heroes of the London Bridge and Manchester Arena attacks and the Grenfell fire. The lame excuse has been trotted out in the face of a storm of media outrage that they haven't had long enough to process the data. Bollocks. All those disasters occurred over six months ago. They managed it quickly enough (quite right too) for Keith Palmer. The woman can't put a foot right. God help us.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 08:33 AM

"As for Green, if he is guilty I hope he gets all he deserves."
Probably life membership of The Bunny Club
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 08:32 AM

Iains - if it didn't reveal my true location, I'd give you a googlemaps grid reference...

Of couse it don't take much wit to make a pun of that dirty old man tory's name,
but it's irresistable when an ideal location to be named after him
genuinely exists in a perpetually conservative dominated provincial town...

btw.. there are approx 12 massage parlours within walking /short taxi ride distance of the Conservative club...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 08:31 AM

"Labour's "entire" NEC, which includes Corbyn, was appalled by the incidents of Labour anti-Semitism, so why aren't you people?"
We are just as we are appalled at yours and Bobad's antisemitism in construing criticism of Israel as antisemitic
Antisemitic, wherever it appears is evil - just as crouching behind the dead of Auschwitz to defending Israeli atrocities is
Isreal has the world's most powerful fascist as a SPONSOR
I'm sure you both treasure that particular honour
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 08:25 AM

"Jews."
That would make me as antisemetic as you
Definition
"Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 08:23 AM

Bob - 'the Jews".. what.. !!!???.. surely not all of 'em.. are you certain..???..

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 07:59 AM

From Right wing 'New Labour' prompted by the anti BDS campaign

Don't be shy come right out and say it was the Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 07:47 AM

Labour's "entire" NEC, which includes Corbyn, was appalled by the incidents of Labour anti-Semitism, so why aren't you people?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 07:33 AM

Re accusations of Labour anti-Semitism, they all came from within the Labour Party which none of you can even deny.
Hard evidence was presented for every case, or did I miss anything?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 07:30 AM

I don't see that many muslim mudcatters down here in BS banging on about how superior their religion might be..

Or any Christians or any other religion.
No-one here does that.

As for Green, if he is guilty I hope he gets all he deserves.
As of now there is absolutely no evidence of any wrong doing except for one person's unsubstantiated and very mild allegations which are denied.

Or have I missed something?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 07:22 AM

pfr    +10 for witticism!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 07:06 AM

There's a patch of grass [and dog shit] outside our local town centre errrrmmm.. massage & hostess club..

Actually it's not too far, about 30 seconds stagger, from the Conservative Club...

Maybe in the new year I could petition the council to name it "Damian Green"...???

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 06:50 AM

"PFR, all the accusations of Labour anti-Semitism came from within the Labour party, "
From Right wing 'New Labour' prompted by the anti BDS campaign
No serious antisemitism was ever discovered (unless you count Israel's insistence that all criticism of their Government is antisemitic) yet you opened and reopened thread after thread and still failed to produce evidence
"But only Christianity so far."
Christianity is the onbe we have on our doorstep and have to deal with, especially in the light of clerical abuses
Should they be absolved from these because they are followers of Christ?
"Green denies."
Just like he denied having porn on his computer - do you mean?
"No actual evidence."
There is evidence that he lied about the porn - if there is nothing wrong with his having it he must lave lied out of habit - he is a habitual liar
There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that he is a sex pest - acceptable in any court and there are now three women discovered as victims of his little hobby
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 06:41 AM

Ye gods, still not cleaned up! Too much Christmas pud and cheap port...but you get my drift...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 06:39 AM

Cor, what a garble! Yertis sans last night's copy and paste. Ahem:


You really can't help it, can you, Keith? Pathetically obsessive,

I predicted weeks ago that we ain't heard nuthin' yet apropos of Damian Green. Naturally, he has the protecting veil of the establishment and he's now hoping that this will all evaporate now that he's been sidelined. Well he's wrong. That is not the culture of the times when it comes to sexual indiscretions. The reality will seep out only slowly, but this is going to run and run. So far, two ex-policemen and a young Tory activist have had their characters assassinated by Green's lackeys in the gutter press. That was a very silly move.

As for insulting religions, my view is that organised religions have all been insulting and exploiting and trying to contrllingbhumanity for thousands of years do they'd bettervroll with the punches. Individual believers shouldn't be targeted as long as they're minding their own business and not trying to recruit others to their irrational beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 05:49 AM

Keith - think a lot of yerself dontcha...

We know from where within the labour party those anti corbyn accusers and aggitators lurked...
and what they hoped to achive by creating destabilising disruption and division..

It's pityful that you are so brazenly obvious in your devious manipulations and distortions..

btw.. the reason I may appear to be more challenging to christianity at mudcat,
is I don't see that many muslim mudcatters down here in BS banging on about how superior their religion might be..

Happy New year...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 05:48 AM

You really can't help it, can you, Keith? Pathetically obsessive,

I predicted weeks ago that we ain't heard nuthin' yet apropos of Damian Green. Naturally, he has the protecting veil of the establishment and he's now hoping that this will all evaporate now thAnd for how long are you going to keep blaming Labour for that, Nigel? Another year or two? Decade or two? Century or two? Your lot have been at the helm for seven years, have broken every promise about getting the deficit down, etc., and about ending austerity (do I remember hearing something about 2015...?) You know as well as I do that the downturn from 2008 was completely beyond the control of the government of the time and that exactly the same fate would have befallen whichever government was in power. So cut the crap, Nigel. The last seven years of Tory rule have pitched this country into its worst state since WW2 (alternatively, blame Sir Nick bloody Clegg). We have the worst economy of the G7 and just about the lowest growth in the EU, and let's not even start to talk about productivity. Your Tory government is the biggest shambles for many a long decade and, mark my words, history will see it as such. Gosh, if we hang about for long enough you'll be blaming original sin on Labour as well. at he's been sidelined. Well he's wrong. That is not the culture of the times when it comes to sexual indiscretions. The reality will seep out only slowly, but this is going to run and run. So far, two ex-policemen and a young Tory activist have had their characters assassinated by Green's lackeys in the gutter press. That was a very silly move.

As for insulting religions, my view is that organised religions have all been insulting and exploiting and trying to contrllingbhumanity for thousands of years do they'd bettervroll with the punches. Individual believers shouldn't be targeted as long as they're minding their own business and not trying to recruit others to their irrational beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 05:34 AM

PFR, all the accusations of Labour anti-Semitism came from within the Labour party, and all were reported in Left Wing publications.
None of it came from me.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 05:22 AM

Keith - yeah.. and that whole sorry debacle of Labour being accused of anti-however-you-cynically-choose-to-define-it-as-ism...

I was once in an adult education dept job
when the manger tried to force me to appologise against my will to a stupid vain nasty old lady local official
who had it in for us.
She strategically chose to pick on me for some exagerated false offense to her dignity,
so she could cause trouble for our whole department.
I of course refused to appologise to the old cow and resigned...

Though I can understand why labour chose that prgmatic diplomatic option to publicly placate the hostile anti labour wankers who were outrageously & unfairly accusing them...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 05:08 AM

Keith - christians, muslims, jews, hindus, buddhists, trekkies, jedis, and every other daft cult I forget to mention,
are all a bunch of deluded irrational pillocks...

there you are.. happy now...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:55 AM

No religions are safe from the sarcstic wrath of PFR...

But only Christianity so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:53 AM

Jim,
I suppose they're all lying and your proven serial liar is innocent of all charges!!!

We have the less than scandalous accusations of Ms Maltby that Green denies.
We have Ms Maltby's further claim that there are two other women, anonymous and unnamed, who "considered" making accusations against Green.
So we just have unsubstantiated claims from one person which Green denies.
No actual evidence.

Steve,
There was no evidence against any of them except "evidence" that you vexatiously applied the wrong definition of antisemitism to.

You mean the definition accepted by UK and every other democracy!

The main case we discussed was Naz Shah who made statements on social media for which Labour suspended her for anti-Semitism.
She apologised and was reinstated.
Having been reinstated, and with no requirement to say more, she chose to make a fuller apology. She acknowledged her remarks were offensive and anti-Semitic, explaining that she had been ignorant of Jewish history.
Knowing and understanding more of that history she realised how offensive and wrong she had been and praised the Jewish community for their support.
You continued to insist she had done nothing wrong!