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Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
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Subject: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 24 Apr 19 - 08:42 PM RTÉ have a new TV series called Ireland's Favourite Folk Song which begins this weekend, on Sunday 28th April. After an initial open call for song suggestions, a panel narrowed it down to ten songs which will be featured on the series and then viewers can vote for their favourite of the ten songs. Any guesses on which songs will be featured and which song might win? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Guest Date: 24 Apr 19 - 09:55 PM Fields of Athenry Wild Mountain Thyme (Scots/Irish crossover) Danny Boy.(Irish/English crossover). Hackneyed, but truly Irish favourites. Do Pogues songs count.. ? what is folk what is pop? As soon as you use the word 'panel' then cultural bias and trendiness comes into it... the emperor's new clothes syndrome. It is no longer Ireland's favourite song but whichever writer or recording has kudos with the panel members and their own backgrounds. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 24 Apr 19 - 10:43 PM The Foggy Dew; that's a no brainer. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 19 - 05:16 AM I think, from the way 'folk' seems to be understood by the mass media (everywhere), that mumbling incoherently into guitars or shouting over a loud band will run off with the prizes here Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 19 - 05:49 AM Galway Bay Are we allowed Raglan Road? Mountains of Mourne (my grandad's party piece after a pint or six: my gran's name was Mary-Ann and he'd pat her on the head as he sang the first line, "Oh Mary this London's a wonderful sight..." upon which she'd snap, "Sit down you silly old bugger..." |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 19 - 06:19 AM "Galway Bay" YOU CAN HAVE THIS ONE - FAR BETTER IMO Not so sure about the other, even though my mam loved it Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Marje Date: 25 Apr 19 - 06:28 AM It'd be interesting to know how this list, when it appears, compares with the favourite Irish (or pseudo-Irish) songs ouside Ireland (e.g. in England or the US). I hope someone who sees it can post the final list on here. We'll probably pull it apart, saying, "That one's Scottish", "This one's by Ewan MacColl" etc .... ...but if you tried this exercise in England on national TV, outside the folk circuit, most viewers would struggle to name even a handful of English folk songs. Marje |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 19 - 07:19 AM These competitions are usually fairly useless and quite often damaging Thhey are run by people who don't know the first about the music in question and are usually decided by similar people who have the ear of the media Far more reliable to ask The Irish Traditional Music Archive or 'The Goilin' or 'The Cobblestone' clubs for advice, but these are usually the last people whose opinions are taken into consideration Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 25 Apr 19 - 07:33 AM To be fair Marje the title of the programme is seemingly "Ireland's Favourite Folk Songs" and not "Ireland's Favourite Irish Folk Songs" :-) Though I do kind of agree with others that it will end up as choose a favourite out of this list pre-set by some supposed 'experts'. It is like the recent Greatest People Of The 20thC which was recently on BBC. David Bowie was voted the greatest entertainer of the 20thC - but he was only up against another three people. Billie Holiday, Charlie Chaplin and Marilyn Monroe. Hardly representative of who the public at large might regard as their favourites. And I've always been a huge Bowie fan.... |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 25 Apr 19 - 08:01 AM Good chance 'Galway girl' is going to do well ;-) Because that's the point isn't it, it's not a competition to find Ireland's most appreciated traditional song. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 19 - 08:29 AM Yep Allen that Bowie one was ludicrous, as much as we all love Bowie at his best - he was not the greatest entertainer of his century, though he has his place among all the other figures. And in terms of recordings he made an amount of stinking material as well as total classics. Death and media sainthood makes people forget the trash. In the case of the Irish songs, Maybe they feel the public need guiding in case 90% of them go for 'Danny Boy' or similar. Also conceivably, without pre-selection someone could orchestrate a hijacking social media campaign to vote for an IRA or Loyalist sectarian politically themed song. I look forward to seeing this one unfold. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Thompson Date: 25 Apr 19 - 08:50 AM Apparently the shortlist is The Green Fields of France, The Foggy Dew, Danny Boy, A Rainy Night in Soho and On Raglan Road. . |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Marje Date: 25 Apr 19 - 09:02 AM Fair point, Allan, it doesn't say the song has to be Irish, so they're free to choose No Man's Land (the title that Eric Bogle actually gave to TGFOF) if they want to. Marje |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 19 - 09:02 AM Rainy Night is my favourite Pogues song. Sublime. I'll definitely go with Raglan Road as long as it's Luke singing it. And the Rising Of The Moon, Luke again. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 25 Apr 19 - 09:09 AM There's a shortlist of ten songs. RTE blurb for Ireland's favourite folksong Bear in mind this is not about musicians or singers' preferences, it's about 'what song will you sing along to at parties' as they put it when calling for submissions (although in fairness, there were a few other reasons given to nominate a song). |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 19 - 10:07 AM I think Shane McGowan's 'Rainy Night in Soho' makes my point perfectly - it may be many things but a 'folk song' it ain't Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 19 - 10:11 AM Hey, Jim, I always thought that a folk song was just a pop song with a fiddle in it... I'll get me coat then... |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 25 Apr 19 - 10:18 AM She Moves Through The Fair would be my choice. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 19 - 01:09 PM Any chance an Irish language song will be considered? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 19 - 01:13 PM "Any chance an Irish language song will be considered?" I doubt if any of those concerned can speak Irish - some of them have trouble with English since it went Estuary Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Thompson Date: 25 Apr 19 - 03:03 PM Nope, that's the shortlist. I don't know where RTE got it from. Mary Black is doing a series of programmes with two of these songs in each. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Steve Gardham Date: 25 Apr 19 - 03:10 PM Shawls of Erin? I'll get me coat! |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: peteglasgow Date: 25 Apr 19 - 03:41 PM my lovely horse? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jos Date: 25 Apr 19 - 04:16 PM According to Peter Laban's link that's half the shortlist - five more to come tomorrow (Friday): "The public nominated over 1,300 songs, giving the Ireland's Favourite Folk Song jury a mammoth task to whittle that down to just 10. The first five to make the Ireland's Favourite Folk Song shortlist are The Green Fields of France, The Foggy Dew, Danny Boy, A Rainy Night in SoHo and On Raglan Road. Voting opens tomorrow, Friday April 26th, directly following the announcement of the final five songs on the shortlist." |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: John P Date: 25 Apr 19 - 05:36 PM Why are we so obsessed with popularity contests? Does it really matter to anyone what someone else's favorite is? Music as competition has never seemed like a good thing to me. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 19 - 10:07 PM a load of baloney |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 25 Apr 19 - 11:07 PM "We're Off To Dublin in the Green" "Whack Fol De Diddle Dee/The Orange and the Green" "Come Out ye Black and Tans" "Wind that shakes the Barley " "Stick your Decommision Up Your A$$" "My little Armalite" "Amhrán na bhFiann "(The Soldiers' Song) "A Nation Once Again" "Arthur McBride" "Some Say the Devil is Dead" "The Fields of Athenry" "There's No One As Irish As Donald Trump" Sincerely, Gargoyle Well GUEST..it is certainly a load of.....putrid |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:55 AM Steve - more true than you think. Most "folk" songs we know seem to have been 18th or 19th century popular songs (or even 20th). |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 19 - 03:36 AM Ding Dong Denny O’Reilly and the Hairy Bowsies have two contenders. 1. The craic we had the day we died for Ireland. 2. The Potatoes aren’t looking the best |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Apr 19 - 03:40 AM "Music as competition has never seemed like a good thing to me." Amen to that - competitions are for winners - only the first three ever win anything "Most "folk" songs we know seem to have been 18th or 19th century popular songs (or even 20th). Nobody knows where most (or even a few) folk songs originated - all we know for certain is that they have been around for quite a while Most 18th, 19th and a few early 20th century songs either sank without trace or survived only in print - most popular songs tend to have been quickly forgotten by the people (popular only for a short time) Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 26 Apr 19 - 04:42 AM If the public nominated 1300 songs then one wonders why they need anyone to whittle them down to 10? You'd think it'd just be the 10 most nominated songs and take it from there. Unless they want to engineer what the 10 most popular are - which kind of defeats any purpose. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Apr 19 - 04:52 AM I think it will be a question of perception rather than anything. As has been discussed before, what the general public perceive as a folk song may not be a folk song according to aficionados. As we are discussing a 'popularity contest' I think there is little hope that the aficionados outnumber the general public. These things are light entertainment, not meaningful insights into a minority genre. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 26 Apr 19 - 05:28 AM When I played music & organised sessions in west Cork 1989-2000, the most commonly performed song by local people was 'Summertime' (and the livin' is easy) |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Apr 19 - 05:33 AM There is a great danger that this will end up as a market ploy to discover the most marketable folk songs The last thing the Irish folk scene needs now is another folk boom Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jack Campin Date: 26 Apr 19 - 07:11 AM "Summertime" has to be one of the greatest successes ever by someone Jim Carroll would classify as a broadside hack. It must have been far more widely transmitted orally than anything ever found by a field collector. (And the words are still in copyright: Ira Gershwin lived to 1983). Never mind Ireland, it must be close to being the Anglophone world's favourite folk song. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Apr 19 - 08:14 AM Unless George Gershwin changed his job in midstream, the beautiful 'Summertime' is as far from the output of 'broadside hacks' as you can get Popularity has nothing to do with songs being passed through a process to become traditional The fact that it remains the property of the Gershwin estate means it can never be claimed by the folk - it is not a folk song if the term 'folk' is to mean anything - sorry I was making a point - not trying to start a 'what is folk' argument Of all places, Ireland tends to not have the problem of identifying traditional songs and music that Britain now appears to have The media is a different kettle of fish Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 26 Apr 19 - 12:08 PM I'm not interested in another 'what is folk' thread either. But the 'folk' seem to have accepted 'Summertime' as the kind of song 'sung at parties' - isn't that one criterion deciding the winner of this daft competition? To eliminate 'Summertime' you surely have to define 'folk'?- count me out of that.... |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Apr 19 - 12:42 PM "But the 'folk' seem to have accepted 'Summertime' as the kind of song 'sung at parties' - As they have Abba's Waterloo and The Birdie Song This attitude robs folk song of its uniqueness and importance as a people's art You have given your own answer - by counting yourself out you can have no input in this subject Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Apr 19 - 12:50 PM I've heard "Summertime" done extremely well by a number of people at folk clubs. As well as Ted Edwards' parody "Suppertime" (and the liver is greasy) :-) I've never heard Waterloo or The Birdie Song at a folk club though. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Thompson Date: 26 Apr 19 - 01:18 PM Final list: On Raglan Road (poem by Patrick Kavanagh set to traditional air Fáinne Gheal an Lae) The Green Fields of France (ie No Man's Land by Eric Bogle) A Rainy Night in Soho (The Pogues) The Foggy Dew (by Canon Charles O’Neill) The Town I Loved So Well (by Phil Coulter) Óró Sé Do Bheatha Abhaile (by PH Pearse) Danny Boy (by Frederick Weatherly) The Parting Glass (Scottish traditional) Rocky Road to Dublin (DK Gavan) Only A Woman's Heart (Eleanor McEvoy) I'd lay good money on The Town I Loved So Well being voted in, given the rage and indignation over the shooting dead of young Derry journalist Lyra McKee last week in Derry (the town she herself called Legendary). |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 19 - 01:51 PM https://youtu.be/tZoqYZ2Hd9c |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Apr 19 - 01:59 PM That's a folk song "I've heard "Summertime" done extremely well by a number of people at folk clubs." Yeah - I've come to realise the English clubs don't know their folk arse from their pop elbow nowadays That's why people stopped going to the clubs - they didn't know what they were going to find when they got there What does being "done wellhave to do with anything ? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Cj Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:05 PM I was fully expecting to see a MacColl song in there, either Shoals / Shores or DoT. Still, no Ed Sheeran, which has to be a blessing. I wonder how close The Whole of the Moon came to be included? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Thompson Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:38 PM I'd love to see the other entries, and to know how high the votes were for different songs. I don't really want RTE to decide what are my country's favourite songs - the people of the country should decide that… |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:51 PM " no Ed Sheeran, which has to be a blessing" Amen to taht, but give 'em time " I don't really want RTE to decide what are my country's favourite songs -" Amen to that too It's not too long ago that RTE were contemptuously referring to Irish traditional music as "diddley-di" music It's probably not a coincidence that exercises like these have only come to the fore at a time when traditional music proper has made it on its own terms largely without the help of the media - cynical opportunism I know one of the ex directors of RTE - a man dedicated to traditional music - he often spoke about his struggles with 'them upstairs' The Irish language channel, TG4 has always given traditional music its share of airspace Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:58 PM In your own words, Jim, pop songs are quickly forgotten and don't last long. Porgy and Bess was first performed in 1935 and is still selling out nearly 85 years later so I guess it is not really a pop song by your definition is it? I wish you would make your mind up! Or at least just give us enjoying folk music in England a break for just one thread. Anyway, Morris practise calls. I shall just go off and play those tunes of no consequence that no one ever hears any more in England and leave you to cry into your beer over Englands past glories... |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 19 - 03:00 PM DtG 'Supper time' by the wonderful Ted. Remember it well. Whatever happened to Ted? Roger. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Apr 19 - 05:17 PM He is still about, Roger. Severely disabled after a stroke but still managing to get out to clubs regularly. I last saw him at Swinton early this year and he managed a floor spot and plugged his new book! The only bit of that song I remember is Suppertime and the liver is greasy Fish are jumping and the sausage is high... :-D |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 19 - 06:31 PM I may be an old fart, but surely more of the Irish people are likely to know songs like 'Wild Mountain Thyme' than lesser known Pogues songs, like a 'Rainy Night..' Then Bogle's 'Green Fields of France' is not quite on the public conscious scale of 'Wild Rover' 'Whiskey in the Jar, 'I'll Tell Me Ma' etc. In terms of the Pogues 'Fairytale of New York' is in a way now a modern seasonal folk song and known to everyone. Clearly the selection 'panel' have skewed the choices of the people. I'd love to see the actual proportional voting figures and not what the panel selected. Obviously sectarian/rebel songs on both sides would have polled as well. List programmes though are lazy programming. Not as bad though as Channel 5's Nation's favourite biscuit, sweets and other vacuous space fillers. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Apr 19 - 08:27 PM " I guess it is not really a pop song by your definition is it?" I have no definition of pop song other than popular Most disappear shortly after they have run their commercial value - others become 'standards' - still pop but old pop It's a great song - one of namy I play regularly, lik mid career Sinatra, or Billie Holliday, or Ella.... Dooesn't make them anyything other tha what they are - certainly not folk Enjoy Morris - or Bernard, or George... Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:02 AM I did, Jim. I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you. With your passionate views on maintaining the tradition I thought you may have refrained. Or at least come up with something more original. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:51 AM Rule Britannia! |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:53 AM Nah, not a folk song :-) |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Apr 19 - 04:09 AM " I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you." You give as good as you get where I come Dave - instinctive defence anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Stanron Date: 27 Apr 19 - 04:31 AM No folk song started it's life as a folk song. It started it's life as a song which was popular enough for others to want to learn. It started as a popular song. You figure it all out. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 27 Apr 19 - 05:14 AM Jim- we all know your trenchant & often stated views on what is a folk song. I disagree as you know. That is irrelevant, what I'm saying is you can't even set up a competition like this without defining your terms. RTE didn't do that, so the whole thing is ridiculous. At a singing session last night, I sang a 1910 pop song 'The Spaniard who blighted my life' which has survived in my own family and thrives among the people even after 109 years. I'm not saying it's a 'folk' song- I don't believe in such definitions but does it have any validity in the tradition in your book? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Apr 19 - 05:54 AM "RTE didn't do that, so the whole thing is ridiculous." I agree " I don't believe in such definitions " That's ridiculous as well - folk song is a closely researched and documented Musical/poetic form of creation - to say you 'don't believe in that sort of thing' flies in the face of logic The folk scene was based on a specific type of music and it produced some incredible and long lasting results in printed and aural form If you thin a long rejected pop song is suitable for a folk club you and I live on separate planets You insist on making it "my definition" - it isn't - it's the documented definition which happens to suit me I see a future in an Irish scene that has come to recognise the importance of its folk traditions - I see a rapidly declining British folk scene that puts up the same arguments as you do Your personal tastes atre of no interest to me as mine should be of no interest to you I'm attempting to document a lifetime's work in folk arts as internationally agreed on in order to make it available for future generations (as entertainment and as social history) - I'm no longer sure what the English scene is trying to achieve by by`digging up hackneyed comic songs that have about as much chance attracting a young audience as does be-bop or The Charleston JIm Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Apr 19 - 06:12 AM 'anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get' probably a gig on cambridge mainstage. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 27 Apr 19 - 06:15 AM Jim, I really can't see the point of even trying to engage with you- you have your views and I have mine- I never mentioned personal taste so that's irrelevant too! As previously, your main aim seems to be to insult me for no good reason and to start another pointless argument. I thought my question was polite and to the point- basically that if a song is still popular after 109 years, it must have some validity! I should have known what would happen and I'm not interested - have a nice argument. As I will no doubt get another abusive reply, may I get in first and suggest that you take your books, your recordings, your tunnel vision and Jimmy Miller as well and shove them up your Khyber. Good night- back to the thread..... |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:05 AM anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get Made up nonsense, Jim, and you know it. I said I would be happy to listen too a couple of Ed Sheeran's songs done acoustically at a folk club and I would be happy to hear the man himself performing traditional material at the same venue. I have never described him as a folk singer and challenge you to show where I have. Once again you know you are in the wrong and try to obfuscate the issue with wild inaccurate statements. Stick to the point. You are happy to take the piss out of Morris dancing yet go ballistic if anyone dare mention wooly jumpers, beards or, heaven forbid, fingers in ears. Why is that? One law for Jim and one for everyone else I guess. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,kenny Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:29 AM Sorry for the aside, but..... 'The Spaniard who blighted my life' which has survived in my own family and thrives among the people even after 109 years". Used to be a great favourite of Stanley Robertson. Meanwhile, back in Ireland........................ |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:49 AM " You are happy to take the piss out of Morris dancing" That was a joke Dave - I'm not a fan of Morris Dancing personally (for various reasons, (including the misogyny that has dominated up to now), but I've watched it with pleasure and have close friends who participate If you can be jokey about what a folk songs is and what's suitable for folk clubs, surely you're not going to throw your toys out of the param if I ake a joke about Morris - or maybe I've misjudged you. I've never commented on wooly jumpers and beards and my attitude to 'finger-in-ear' has been to explain it rather than "go ballistic (as you appear to be going now) Are people really suggesting a song composed for the music hall 1911 (by Billy Merton) - not "the folk" is a folk song ? The scene really must be in a bad way Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:57 AM That was a joke Dave Of course it was, Jim. So is "How many folk singers does it take to change a light bulb? One to do the work and 3 to sing a long boring dirge about the dead one. In unison." |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:23 AM My point exactly - jokes between folkies If you wish to find offence in a joke, you disappoint me Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Iains Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:24 AM I guess the "Unquiet Grave" won't make the top 10 then! |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:31 AM No offence taken, Jim. As I said, I was just a little surprised. Maybe you didn't see the exact words I wrote because there were tears of hilarity streaming from your eyes :-) I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:42 AM "I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing" I was a joke (a pun on the name 'Morris' actually) - not a piss-take Dave I do that sort of thing regularly I think I hit a raw nerve - for which, apologies Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 19 - 10:18 AM We were once walking from one venue to another, in full Morris gear, when a fireman leaned out of his fire engine window and asked, "which one of you is Morris?". Quick as a flash one of our number replied," Me. Which one of you is Dennis? ". No apology needed, Jim. No offence and no raw nerve. It is just that I get tired with the derision piled on Morris dancing by the popular media. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Elmore Date: 27 Apr 19 - 10:42 AM My favorite Irish folk song is "Summertime" rendered by that late great Irish lad Doc Watson. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Apr 19 - 11:46 AM "It is just that I get tired with the derision piled on Morris dancing by the popular media." I feel the same about folk song proper Dave :-> Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Thompson Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:16 PM Dennis? Why Dennis? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Colonel Fraser Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:27 PM Dennis fire engines. Google it. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:29 PM Dennis is the name of the makers of fire engines. its on the front of every fire engine in England. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 28 Apr 19 - 05:31 AM To return to the thread, I believe today is a significant one in the life of the ridiculous 'favourite folk song' competition on RTE? What sounds a LOT more interesting is the first of three hour long programmes about Seamus Ennis on the 'Rolling Wave' at 9pm tonight- marking his 100th anniversary next Sunday. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 28 Apr 19 - 05:44 AM Face it, Ireland is a weird place. They've been doing weird song competitions for many years. Theres a short story about one in The Dubliners by James Joyce. I've only been involved in one, but I rank it as one of the strangest experiences in a fairly strange life. After dragging me all the way from England as a a finalist - I seem to remember there had been a lot betting on the result in the surrounding towns, and there were dark mutterings about corruption in high places. One poor sod of a contestant was the guitarist in Crystal Gale's backing band - and he had come all the way from America to take part. The judge turned out to be a cleric who bore a striking resemblance to Father Ted. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM Face it, Ireland is a weird place." SURE IS Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM Face it, Ireland is a weird place." SURE IS Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe Date: 28 Apr 19 - 07:31 AM As most Irish people have very little interest in folk music of any kind, I don't expect this poll to have much relevance. No doubt one of the small number of token Irish songs people sung at musical occasions will win. Another thing, could this poll have been hijacked by some group with an agenda, as happened in the BBC poll some years back when "A nation once again" was selected as the greatest song of all time or some such title. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,patriot Date: 28 Apr 19 - 07:34 AM Forty Shades of Green must be I with a chance? you can't get more Irish than that, surely? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:13 AM "As most Irish people have very little interest in folk music of any kind," Considering the huge uptake of traditional music by thousands of young people (far in excess of anything that's happened in my lifetime), you have to be joking Stupid competitions such as these are a result of the increase in interest I've just seen a list of the panel - a political journalist and four total unknowns Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:39 AM That's what I'm saying Jim, you should respect the tradition of having weird song competitions. that's why they do so well in the erovision song contest - they're match ready! |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:45 AM With all respect Jim, that's an extremely silly thing to say. The Jury You have at least heard of Brian Mullins, Nuala O'Connor and perhaps Mary Black and Leagues O'Toole at least. Aside from those there's an ethno-musicologist from UCL included Whatever else we think of this competition, it's not really a bunch picked up randomly off the street. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:56 AM @Peter Laban, Thanks for link. I was a bit too negative in my former post. I thought wrongly 'twas just mainstream musicians were involved. Those people seem to know their business. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Apr 19 - 10:30 AM Sorry Peter The newspaper jut mentions five today, I (wrongly apparently) assumed they wre all "That's what I'm saying Jim, you should respect the tradition of having weird song competitions." Like Eurovision - you mean ? Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Apr 19 - 10:39 AM Disappointed that Brian Mullen has become involved in this nonsense - he's a fine singer with a great respect for the tradition (as will probably be seen tonight if he puts in a return appearance in the second Sam Henry programme) Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Thompson Date: 28 Apr 19 - 03:30 PM Some candidates? I'll start with a few: The Last Rose of Summer Wild Mountain Thyme Meeting of the Waters She is Far From the Land Bodenstown Churchyard Nell Flaherty's Drake Eamonn an Chnoic Cill Chais Slán le Máigh Liam Ó Raghaille Amhráin Mhuighnise Sliabh na mBan |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Georgiansilver Date: 29 Apr 19 - 02:29 PM I have read back over the thread and cannot see... or have missed this one which gets sung in bars all over Ireland and in clubs in England.....Has been performed by The Dubliners, Dick Gaughan and several other well known Irish singers....... would have thought it would have been a great contender. Song for Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Tattie Bogle Date: 29 Apr 19 - 03:52 PM Also crossed my mind as a strong contender,and surprised not to see it in the list. Mary Black's version for me! |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: The Sandman Date: 29 Apr 19 - 04:44 PM is this the fault of CCE jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Andy7 Date: 29 Apr 19 - 05:14 PM Andy7's Favourite Folk Song Competition: First I'll make a shortlist of my 10 favourite folk songs. Then I'll whittle them down, one at a time, until there's just one left. That will be my favourite folk song. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: olddude Date: 29 Apr 19 - 05:29 PM Wild rover |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 30 Apr 19 - 03:11 AM "is this the fault of CCE jim" Doubt it Dick - not enough money or kudos for them to bother Jim |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Thompson Date: 30 Apr 19 - 05:31 AM I don't think I've heard Song for Ireland sung in Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 30 Apr 19 - 05:34 AM I like the song The Rocky Road To Dublin but do these producers/panel really think that The Rocky Road to Dublin is more popular in Ireland than either The Fields of Athenry or The Wild Rover, neither of which seem to be included in the list. I would contend that you'd be far more likely to hear The Fields of Athenry or The Wild Rover being sung by an average Joe than The Rocky Road To Dublin. Maybe the panel thought those two songs were too 'common'? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 30 Apr 19 - 05:38 AM so what IS Ireland's favourite folksong after all this? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 30 Apr 19 - 05:45 AM There's no such thing. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 30 Apr 19 - 06:09 PM It's the Foggy Dew. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 01 May 19 - 02:07 PM the Bob Roberts version? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 01 May 19 - 06:17 PM Hi Thompson! Re "Song for Ireland"... I've heard it sung pretty regularly for a number of years at sessions - often, but by no means only, by visiting English singers. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 02 May 19 - 05:05 AM Don't know what stage this competition is at nor how it's decided. Nor any interest really- just curious about the answer. Ireland has the best and the worst of songs & music as far as I'm concerned- certainly it isn't the lost world of music promoted by some posters on mudcat, CCE and Bord Failte 'Song for Ireland' promotes an image which is very rare these days-- there's an awful lot of crap & suspect that aspect will emerge as the winner? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Iains Date: 03 May 19 - 07:50 AM Having just seen the shortlist, how many are actually folk songs sensu stricto? On Raglan Road Green Fields of France Rainy Night in Soho The Foggy Dew The Town I Loved So Well Óró Sé Do Bheatha Bhaile Danny Boy The Parting Glass The Rocky Road to Dublin A Woman's Heart |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 03 May 19 - 10:13 AM Isn't The Parting Glass actually a Scottish song? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 May 19 - 10:26 AM probably - its about a bloke who's hoovered up all the drink. but now its his round so he bids you all goodnight. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Mrrzy Date: 03 May 19 - 10:37 AM When I was in Ireland everybody sang Red is the Rose but laughed at any of our requests, all too old apparently. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Tattie Bogle Date: 03 May 19 - 01:56 PM Bob Roberts' "Foggy Dew"? Ha-ha Guest, but not, to be sure, to be sure! Better than Peter Pears, anyhow! |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Iains Date: 03 May 19 - 02:25 PM Do you think the parting glass was half empty or half full? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Connie O'Hayden Date: 03 May 19 - 03:04 PM https://youtu.be/uvsvPidMLT8 |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Thompson Date: 06 May 19 - 03:30 AM The version of The Foggy Dew they've chosen puts my teeth right on edge, because the singer has changed the words to suit himself. Did I really hear "perfidious Avion"? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: The Sandman Date: 06 May 19 - 05:06 AM could it be perfidious avon , in honour of avon reps |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 06 May 19 - 08:49 AM "...puts my teeth right on edge, because the singer has changed the words to suit himself... " Isn't that what traditional singers do - sometimes consciously, more often not? As a quick example, just think of "Off to Dublin in the Green" - a rewrite of a British Army recruiting song! In the end, of course, it's the listeners who decide what survives... Regards |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Jim Carroll Date: 06 May 19 - 10:13 AM I sang 'Foggy Dew' last night at our local singing session I love the puzzled expression on people's faces when you introduce the song and apparently proceed to singing something totally different Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 06 May 19 - 10:26 AM Indeed, Jim! I get good value out of announcing that I’m going to sing “The Fields of Athenry” - and launch into (my version of) the song John Flanagan wrote as a response to the original! Regards |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Niamh Bird Date: 07 May 19 - 07:42 AM Interesting thread – though goes off topic....Song for Ireland was made famous in Ireland by the great Mary Black, and it’s sung quite a lot – still…. Generally it’s not known it was written by an English man…. And in The Foggy Dew (great rendition by Daoirí Farrell), the verse he sings mentions Perfidious Albion - Daoirí would never, ever change the words to suit himself, he has too much respect for the tradition.... oh the night fell black and the rifle's crack made perfidious Albion reel mid the leaded rail seven tongues of flame did shine o're the lines of steel by each shining blade a prayer was said that to Ireland her sons be true when the morning broke still the war flag shook out its fold on the foggy dew |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 08 May 19 - 08:58 AM Do we understand that the 'Foggy Dew' is Ireland's favourite folk song'? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 08 May 19 - 09:05 AM 'Do we understand that the 'Foggy Dew' is Ireland's favourite folk song'?' I am not sure we understand the whole thing at all. What I do know is that the voting process is still in progress. But I say that without having followed much of it at all. Ireland's Favourite Folksong |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Stringsinger Date: 08 May 19 - 12:10 PM I'll vote for My Lagan Love or The Lark in the Clear Air. Also She Moved Through the Fair. (I dig mixolydian.) O'Carolan is high on my list too. Can there be a favorite song elected by the Irish people? I would tend to doubt it. There are so many beautiful Irish songs that it would be like trying to pick out the most beautiful looking person in the world. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,guest of 09.05 today Date: 08 May 19 - 12:18 PM I think the whole thing is crazy but still curious- when is the final result known- earlier posts are not clear at all... |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 08 May 19 - 01:47 PM From the website: 'Voting closes at 6pm on 27th May. The folk song selected by you as Ireland’s Favourite Folk Song will be announced live on The Late Late Show on RTÉ One Television on 31st May. Between now and then: happy listening!' |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 14 May 19 - 12:08 PM Ryan Tubridy is going to announce "Ireland's Favourite Folk Song" ??!! Things just got dramatically worse. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Jun 19 - 01:54 AM So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the choice was "The Parting Glass": The "short list" before the final vote, is a very nice selection of songs:
It's fun to have a vote like this, but I suppose it's hard on those who can only think in absolutes. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 19 Jun 19 - 01:59 AM Raglan Road You're right. I read it wrong. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Tattie Bogle Date: 19 Jun 19 - 02:24 PM Just back from a visit to N Ireland, including Derry/Londonderry, where there are some of the lyrics of "The Town I Loved So Well" on the information boards on the Walls of Derry/Londonderry, and the guide in the Presbyterian Church also quoted from them. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 20 Jun 19 - 09:33 AM ten decent songs, but folk? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 20 Jun 19 - 09:36 AM 'ten decent songs, but folk?' Taking into consideration the common distinction (in Ireland) between 'folk' and 'traditional', yes. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,patriot Date: 22 Jun 19 - 04:59 AM So 'traditional' songs are not 'folk' and hence excluded from this competition? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Father Fluffybottom Date: 22 Jun 19 - 07:04 AM "Traditional" songs are "folk" songs. Not all "folk" songs are "traditional". |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 22 Jun 19 - 09:37 AM In the sense that very few people in Ireland would have referred to Josie Sheáin Jeaic MacDonncha as a 'folksinger' or to Ronnie Drew or Andy Irvine as 'traditional' ones. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,patriot Date: 22 Jun 19 - 03:40 PM I think in the early days we WOULD have described such as Joe Heaney & Paddy Tunney as folksingers, just like Tom Paxton or Alex Campbell, or Christy Moore for that matter- We've all got much more sophisticated now but under the old naivety?? we had, we didn't make daft distinctions- it just didn't matter, a far healthier attitude I'd say |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Jun 19 - 04:51 PM It seems stupid to argue about this. People voted for their favorites - and quite likely, their favorites are not going to be performances from fifty or more years ago. If you have a different favorite, that's good - do your best to promote your own choice instead of denigrating the choices of others. Promoting Joe Heaney & Paddy Tunney is a great idea, and a poll such as this gives that an opportunity. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 19 - 04:33 AM "I think in the early days we WOULD have described such as Joe Heaney & Paddy Tunney as folksingers, just like Tom Paxton or Alex Campbell, or Christy Moore for that matter". You might have, but not in Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 23 Jun 19 - 06:00 AM RTE was quite specifically looking for 'Ireland's favourite folksong' and I think given that context it's sound to apply the usual distinction, as it is common in Ireland, between 'folk' and 'traditional' song/singers. For every day use I think it's safe to assume we all think more in more general terms of 'songs' and singers' without necessarily applying the genre bracket. But there seems to be a noticeable re-emergence of the F-word here in the past year or so, or am I the only one in thinking that? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 23 Jun 19 - 09:27 AM I heard John Bownan's excellent archive programme this morning which included an item about 'Raglan Road' featuring Luke Kelly and PJ Kavanagh singing his own poem/song. Interestingly, Bowman referred to the song as having won the competition for Ireland's Favourite Song. NO MENTION of the F word- was he wrong or just avoiding any controversy ? |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 19 - 10:41 AM Any song about being American, preferably sung by Daniel O'Donnell or any Irish singer into country and western. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 19 - 12:04 PM God help us... |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: gillymor Date: 23 Jun 19 - 12:26 PM If I had a vote it would be for Siúil A Rún Arthur McBride (aka Arthur McBride and the Recruiting Sargeant) Black Waterside A Pair of Brown Eyes Thousands Are Sailing (the Pogues composition, not the traditional one) ahead of anything on the RTE list, which does contain some very fine songs. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 19 - 01:39 PM Thousands are sailing, I'll give you. Phil Chevron was that rare thing, an Irish pogue and the song is about Irish people, albeit used in The USA. A pair of brown eyes was written by Shane McGowan, an English lad writing a song about London. |
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Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song From: gillymor Date: 23 Jun 19 - 02:13 PM I can't say I know what MacGowan was thinking when he wrote "A Pair of Brown Eyes" but I'm pretty sure that the main subject matter was not London, though it may have been the setting. |
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