BS: man's best friend

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 12:39 PM

Twenty-two of the fifty-one dogs rescued from Michael Vick's business
were taken to the Kanab, Utah animal sanctuary of the
Best Friends Animal Society, over ten years ago.

Of their twenty-two admitted animals,
sixteen have "crossed the Rainbow Bridge,"
some of them -- like 'Mel' and 'Layla' -- lived until this year, 2019.

This link goes to the Best Friends webpages and particularly
to the onsite links to follow-up stories
about the 22 "Vicktory" dogs, deceased and living.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:48 PM

Cesar Milan has done much to rehabilitate the image of the pitbull in particular,
and dogs in general.
It made an enormous difference when
the criminal investigation began
concerning Michael Vick and his breeding of pitbulls for dogfighting.

Cesar Milan's well-publicized work
made it possible to see the poor dogs as innocent victims
rather than as a pestilence to be eradicated,
although there are still people with that mindset.

As it is, various diseases have done for
many of the rescued Vicktory dogs,
such as the disease "babesia;"
quite a number of the rescue dogs have since died.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Charmion
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:21 AM

I like dogs, especially those (well) cared for by other people. I will happily scritch and make much of them. But I’m with Steve on the subject of frantically barking sofa-scramblers whose humans coo and chuckle as the wretched hounds destroy any attempt at conversation. I am keenly aware of the constant effort required to keep a dog happy, confident and engaged, not unlike a small child.

I love cats, although they are not always quiet, sometimes irritatingly intrusive, and — okay, I admit it — sometimes *really* hard on the furniture. It’s their air of self-possession that gets me, and the sleek beauty of their form. The sight of Watson (black short-haired tomcat) leaning into the kitchen sink to drink from the tap never fails to make me smile.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 07:45 PM

12.40 am just taken our greyhound for 10 minute walk, her body clock is all over the place as a result of fireworks and her shaking fright. Hopefully she will settle down now!

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 11:43 PM

I don't imagine any dog being that desperate.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Neil D
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 07:21 PM

Speaking of people who don't like dogs, Trump is the first president since the 1890's who does not own one. Maybe if they tie a porkchop around his neck they can get one to play with him.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 07:06 PM

I've lived in this house for 33 years now, and no dog has ever, or ever will, darken my doorstep. The occasional visitor with cur has objected. Arrogant bastards! My house, no canine contamination!

(No-one has ever partaken of tobacco in our house either...)

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 06:59 PM

Apart from the puppy mayhem --
well, pups will be pups --
I believe that sort of canine thinking is often called
'problem-solving,'
as when your Cookie figured out
how to get into the compost containment.

As for instance,
some breeds of terriers,
who don't give much thought to certain things in life,
but who become monomaniacal when given certain puzzles to solve --
a combination of
problem solving and prey drive, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 05:12 PM

Read The dog that bit people by James Thurber. Well worth the 5-10 mn.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 01:04 PM

As a rule greys don't play fetch, especially if they are ex racers. Our Dreamy has some small fluffy toys, all of which she has killed (!!) and sometimes throws them around as part of her zoomie routine. She also has a giant fluffy caterpillar which also gets thrown around, but she has shown little or no interest in a ball.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 12:32 PM

This puppy has been here for seven weeks and has basically left a path of destruction. I don't recommend Steve get a puppy if he ever changes his mind about dogs. She is still a sharp pooch who figures out how to get into the compost (I reinforced it over the weekend after she pushed down the side and simply walked into the enclosure), was chewing up a tree I'd been planning to prune to a single stem (I did that, then wrapped it and staked a piece of chicken wire to keep her from girdling the tree), and tore up the cushion on my old leather chair. I'll have to stitch it together again then reupholster the seat with something she can't dig through).

As we have gotten to know each other better the other dogs have totally accepted her as one of the pack, and recognize she's a puppy, clear in how they play with her. They haven't figured out how to tell her not to do stuff, but they have taught her important things like the boundaries of the Invisible Fence (she's trained with the collar that gives a noise and a sharp static charge if she gets close to the signal around the edge of the yard).

If I find something she has destroyed and/or dragged out into the yard (the list is too long to enumerate) she gets scolded and put in time out in her kennel. I'm always careful to simply put her in there, no swats or scolds or anything to make the kennel seem a bad place. It's where she spends the night so she doesn't chew up the house or play with the other dogs as I try to sleep. When she hears that tone of voice she heads straight for the house and now, straight into her kennel, putting herself in time out. This morning I found her in the kennel THEN found the destroyed sock nearby. Counting the days till she grows up and stops so much of this destructive puppy stuff, because she really is a very good dog. She has learned the mealtime routine (I put food on the floor, then tell them when they can eat) and is much better, more patient, than the blue heeler, who I've been correcting again and is also finally improving from pacing until I put the food down. After the first week she learned that a nap on the couch is just that - my afternoon power nap is when she needs to plop down and go to sleep, not play. My goodness but that dog can sleep! She's still a terror to the dogs who want to play fetch (she chases and takes away the bumper), but one of these days she'll figure out about bringing it back and I'll have to be sure to have enough of these heavy plastic bumpers for all three of them to play the game.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 11:44 AM

The world is pathogens fighting each other. Eat healthy and keep a good gut flora going and you'll survive.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 09:32 AM

Good luck with that. You still left plenty of pathogens lying around.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 09:01 AM

Problem this morning - side effect of the calming paste given to our Dreamy the last couple of days is very loose poo, which she decided to do on the pavement just a few yards from the park! Good job I had a supply of kitchen roll and poo bags to clear it up - went back after the walk with water & disinfectant to properly clear up. You see that's what dog owners should be doing!

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 02:20 AM

I do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 01:43 PM

Oh, it happens. But I don’t blame the dog which, when all’s said, knows no better - I blame the selfish, inconsiderate, anti-social A-hole that’s the dog’s owner. And, if I see someone walk on without picking up when their dog’s just had a dump, I call them back and offer them a poo-bag - works wonders!

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 01:36 PM

What, Maggie? I did that on purpose!!! I could say I hope HE walks into one... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 01:29 PM

You walked right into that one, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 01:09 PM

I always do, Steve, I always do...!! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 12:57 PM

I love you, John, you know I love you, but "hysterical?" Look to thyself and thine own reactions! Anyway, 'nuff said from me. Next time you tread on a turd, think of me... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 12:09 PM

If truth be known, Steve’s ‘colossal dislike’ needs to be focussed not on dogs, but on their owners. Every complaint in his long, hysterical list is a comment on, and criticism of, dog-owners’ anti-social attitudes and behaviour

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 10:43 AM

When individuals go out for a walk around here, they often carry a golf club or umbrella to chase off any stray that might approach, but it doesn't happen often. Loose dogs can be a menace to anyone walking dogs on a leash; they can charge my dogs and create quite a tangle, and I've given more than one charging stray a swift kick. But it doesn't happen often. It sounds, Steve, like you need some municipal or county legislative remedies to your problem - if rules don't exist, write them, regarding loose animals and picking up droppings. Enforce leash laws. Train people to train their dogs. And while you're working on it, put a few animal cruelty laws into place, they are probably needed.

I'm "pack leader" because, first and foremost, I control the food. When the dogs are fed their bowls are put on the floor and they wait until I tell them to eat before lunging forward. And with any of them, I can tell them to stop and they will, mid meal. I can pick up the bowl of food without a growl or a bite. This is part of Millan's training, and it carries forward, meaning that when you're out walking they have the same level of attention.

The new puppy was a typical hungry dog who would try to dive into any bowl of food, but after a few days began to understand what she was supposed to do, and within two weeks had mastered the routine. She's actually quite calm because she knows she'll get fed and she knows which bowl is hers.

There is no winning or losing this debate; there are a number of us putting up information as antidote to Steve's colossal dislike of our canine friends. Readers will have to choose for themselves whose truth to respond to.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 09:20 AM

John:

"Your mendacious claim that owners habitually leave their dog’s shit unless someone is watching them."

Me:

"None of this means that some of you aren't responsible citizens who do the right thing."

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 09:15 AM

I have no choice but to interact with others' dogs round here. Their owners commonly defy the bylaws and let them run free to hassle around my feet and jump up at me. Dog fights are frequent, usually one off the lead attacking one on its lead. We have a local nature reserve here in which dogs must be kept on leads in order to protect ground-nesting birds and wildlife in general. On one occasion I counted, on a hundred-yard stretch of path, eight loose dogs (with eight individual owners) off lead, some running wild in the vegetated areas, and not one dog on a lead. In fact, dogs on leads in that area are a rarity. There is shit everywhere. It's a menace to pedestrians, kids and the elderly on mobility scooters. If a dog-owner is confronted either for having a dog illegally out of control or for not picking up the shit, the response is routinely abusive. I live at the seaside and the local beaches all have dog restrictions in summer. You can go down there any summer's day and you will see the rules being flouted routinely. Owning a dog does not confer extra rights on you, believe it or not, but it does confer a whole heap of responsibilities towards other people who don't necessarily share your desire for canine "companionship." Maybe the arrogant owners who shirk these responsibilities are not the majority, but they are a bloody big minority at best and they don't half bring the rest of you into disrepute.

"It's the owners, not the dogs." Absolutely. No dog-hater drivel from me. Dog-owner-hater drivel mebbe!

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 07:55 AM

I don't listen to dog hater drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 07:54 AM

And I respect your choice not to own a dog, or to interact with others’ dogs.

What I do not respect is...

1) Your selfish and wholly unreasonable wish to deny others the choice of having a dog, and
2) Your mendacious claim that owners habitually leave their dog’s shit unless someone is watching them. I agree that some do - the proof is there to see, and it annoys me just as much as it annoys you - but you have absolutely no idea how many responsible owners there are who, like me, pick up after their dogs, because there is no evidence that they have done so.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 07:40 AM

And Maggie's "territory marking" is a lovely euphemism for pissing up lamp posts and on my car wheels. The sort of thing that I'd be arrested for if I tried it. One law for me, one law for curs. And, annoyingly, I pay my taxes and dogs don't.

And somebody in Bude has an all-white poodle. Well I say all-white, except that it has a roughly circular area around its anus that's pale brown. I tell you, I'd sooner hack off my danglies with a rusty machete than have that thing sitting on my lap.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 07:28 AM

My wife says so, Steve. She’s always right about everything, but especially so where dogs and cynophobes are concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 04:24 AM

Good response, Maggie. You are in that small minority who are responsible dog owners, though I wouldn't care to spread out my picnic rug on your grass. Terrible response, John. Buttock-clenching response, Neil. But thank God we're not all the same.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 02:11 AM

Anyone who doesn’t like dogs has a serious, debilitating mental defect. End of.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Neil D
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 01:26 AM

Dogs have been companions to mankind at least three times longer than any other animals have been domesticated. They lived with us when we lived in caves. Proto-dogs living with proto-humans. For the last 40,000 years we have evolved together, and at every step the dog has acquired traits making them more and more useful, and appealing, to humans. Our relationship with these noble canines is part of what makes us human. I mean know offense to any here when I say that one who truly dislikes dogs has a disconnect with some part of their humanity.
They herd for us, they hunt for us, they protect us. They are the only animal that has ever been used to protect our police and military personnel. They will, and have, willingly give up their lives for us. But more than all that, there is the comfort and serenity they bring daily to our lives. I'm never more at peace than when my rangy 60 lb pit puts his front legs in my lap, I drape my arms lightly over his shoulders and we commune with our foreheads touching. It's like Zen. Or like when my little 12 lb chug stands up on her hind legs and does a rat-a-tat-tat on my knee, her warm brown eyes begging me to pick her up and hold her, her little apple head nestled under my chin. It's the most unconditional of all love.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 09:09 PM

Steve, have you ever heard of Cesar Millan, the "Dog Whisperer"? He has worked through the years with lots of breeds, but really got his start with the "dangerous" breeds, the ones people are afraid of. So when my pitbull arrived, I paid attention and we learned how to walk so I am the "pack leader" - I am in control. They walk beside me at all times, and if I stop to talk to someone they do the "calm submissive" act of sitting or lying down and waiting for me. I scoop in my 1/2 acre yard every few days, they rarely need to do anything other than mark territory when we walk, and I always have bags along for just in case. Yes, sometimes it seems a bit inconvenient, but on the other hand, if we were ever attacked while out there, a bag of dog droppings swung into someone's face is bound to be a deterrent!

The problem is your neighborhood and the attitudes of the humans there, not the dogs. Millan's general rule of thumb is that there are bad owners (or untrained owners) more often than there are bad dogs. If you visited here you would see a different approach to dog ownership and dog walking.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 07:43 PM

By the way, who's to say that the poo on those touchscreens isn't dog poo? I mean, we are talking about the frequenters of the awful McDonalds here...

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 07:03 PM

Whataboutery doesn't cut it, Maggie. Dogs are filthy, disease-carrying parasites, and the production of their dog food contributes hugely to global warming. You'd rapidly agree if you lived in Bude. Dogshit everywhere, and the rule seems be that (a) leave it where it is if no-one sees your cur shitting, or (b) if people see your dog shitting you (disgustingly) pick it up (leaving, naturally, an unhealthy smear) in an extremely thin environmentally-unfriendly plastic bag. Then you either endure the rest of your walk toting a grotesquely scrotum-like warm bag o' turd or, more likely, you look around furtively, decide that no-one can see you and abandon your packaged obscenity by dangling it on the nearest tree. The trouble is that the majority of you appear to follow this pattern of behaviour. Naturally, dog-owners confronted with this deny everything and affect insult. The evidence on our grass verges and pavements confirms otherwise. None of this means that some of you aren't responsible citizens who do the right thing. But there aren't many of you. And another thing. Hardly any of you can actually control your dog when out and about. I pay my taxes and your dog doesn't. To me, that means that your dog has absolutely no right to shove its filthy, germ-laden nose into my crutch, with you standing by grinning, inanely trying to tell me that you dog "is only being friendly." Frankly, bugger off!

I still love you anyway...   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:47 PM

Calming paste knocked out our Dreamy all evening, which left us with a puzzle as to how we were going to get her outside for a wee!! Had to pull her off the sofa (not advisable with 34 kilos of greyhound!) and take her outside on lead.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 03:37 PM

Aha, SRS, you have now admitted us through that link
to other Instagram posts,
so I have now gotten a look at Pepper and Zeke
AND Cookie.

Cookie looks sweet enough to nibble on.

And the photo of Cinnamon is precious.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 01:34 AM

My dogs are working dogs - I got one, then a second, in 2005 after the house was broken into. Their job is to keep an eye on things and bark at strangers. They don't lunge at the door or gate, they back up and bark. They also bark at the coyotes going past the other side of the back fence, and the blue heeler is incensed at the post carrier's truck, though she adores the postal carrier in person.

They're always happy to see me when I get up in the morning, when I arrive home from wherever I've been, and in general if I come in looking for someone's ears to scratch. They're particularly happy if I say the word "treat" or ask "is anyone hungry?"

Yes, they're tripping hazards, in particular when it is stormy or fireworks out (the blue heeler curls up beside my feet wherever and has accidentally been kicked many times that way). They're two black dogs and one dark brown, so walking through the house with the lights off at night isn't generally a good idea.

Steve's clinical characterization of canines doesn't take into account the world in general - and how unhygenic humans are (I just saw this evening a 2018 story about how every touch screen at McDonalds in the UK has "poo" on them when tested). He's not taking into account the capacity of a dog to worm its way into one's heart and provide great companionship. How they form a pack that is in existence to protect its person or people, and the synergy a household achieves with these relationships.

Steve, consider yourself chastised.

When my first dog, Cinnamon, a pit bull who never ever mauled anything arrived, she was an injured stray big pup. I learned later that neighbors had been chasing her off because of her breed, so she lived for days or weeks in the prairie behind neighborhood houses, mostly eating bugs and trash. I saw her limp up my driveway toward the garage and I walked out to the porch and made a noise. She shyly came up to me, wagging, and I petted her head. She licked my hand. She stayed the rest of her life because it turned out that first encounter was a contract, and if I was nice to her, she was totally bonded to me from that point on. It really happens that fast. Here is Cinnamon about a year before we lost her; she had some kind of cancer, and had lesions removed from her tummy. We agreed that if I didn't put her in a cone she would wear the t-shirt and leave the stitches alone. My old "I Love NY" shirt never looked so good on me.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 09:24 PM

I read in the newspaper yesterday that the District Attorneys Office in Cook County (basically Chicago) has sworn in a new member, a Labrador retriever whose job it is to comfort victims, especially children and the mentally handicapped.

Her name is Hattie. In accordance with usual newspaper policy not to state an individual's race, they didn't mention whether she is a black lab or a golden.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 05:55 PM

Your best friend
has plenty of good company.
Poor thing.

The family pet dog of my childhood,
a hound-beagle mix,
was dumped by the side of the road,
beautifully house-trained -- in truth,
she trained US.

Whoever housetrained her
also rendered her gun-shy.
She not only had no defense against the noises from whatever source,
but
the very presence of a gun, be it unloaded and broken,
leaning against the porch wall, silently,
sent her into high anxiety.

A more companionable, biddable, loyal, comforting presence there never was,
she must have been exquisitely well-bred
even if she was a cross between hound breeds.
And then to mess her up like that --

some humans have much to answer for.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 05:27 PM

It made no difference at all, she is a shaking wreck, will not eat or go outside for a wee. Fuck the fireworks.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 01:27 PM

Yes, I walked her just after 4pm this afternoon before the firework mayhem starts. She is wearing her calming Thunder Jacket now and will have calming paste, which I collected from the vet earlier today, with her food at 6pm! We'll see if it makes any difference, otherwise this lady from the fastest dog breed on the planet will be a shaking wreck!!

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 05:15 PM

Ah, poor Dreamy the rescue greyhound!

She is reeling from the noises of Halloween,
and according to her Mudcat member owner,
she still has Guy Fawkes Day to look forward to

... 'poor little sausage' ...

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 04:28 PM

darn it ...

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 19 - 05:48 AM

There's a story of a Yank visiting a bar up the coast from here and getting shat on by a passing seagull while sitting outside having a drink
He went into the bar and asked the publican, the legendary Joe McHugh, for a piece of toilet paper
"I wouldn't bother too much about it" said Joe, "That feller will be over The Cliffs of Moher before you can wipe his arse"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Oct 19 - 05:31 AM

Dogs have unwiped naked bottoms, yet are allowed into pubs and eateries. I have to handle money and supermarket trolley handles that may have been touched by people who have picked up and toted warm dogshite in a bag with a germ barrier but a few microns thick. Oh, the irrationality of a human race that can even begin to countenance such horror.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 19 - 04:20 AM

We always had cats until we moved to Ireland - the boy racers soon sorted that one out for us
I found them comforting to have around but, unlike dogs, individual enough not to be demanding
I love all animals but there few I would want as domestuc companions - shit - I forgot to feed the donkey
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Oct 19 - 05:05 PM

I can understand people wanting dogs as companions but why do they have to take them EVERWHERE with them.

I sometimes drink in a very small bar, 20 people and it's crowded.

Not long ago I was in said bar, 18 people so quite full. There were 20 (TWENTY) dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Oct 19 - 02:54 PM

Like cats. Love dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Oct 19 - 11:12 AM

Once more, with feeling ...

Subject: RE: BS: man's best friend
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Oct 19 - 11:27 AM

refresh.