BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 11:45 AM

Donuel order order always utilizes sources that can be checked elsewhere. None of the lefties have been able to accuse him of lying. Much as they may wish to.

Labour of course has the damocles of antisemitism hanging over them.
The Jewish Labour Movement’s closing submission to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission has been leaked in full.

The conclusion – based on testimonies of 70 serving and former Labour party officials – damningly says “The Labour Party is no longer a safe space for Jewish people”.

100 additional testimonies from party members say they have suffered or witnessed antisemitism at party events. Labour were desperate to change the final election week’s narrative – this might make that difficult…

Corbynistas were approached this week with anti-Semitic quotes to see if they think the person who said them is fit for office. But there’s a twist! When the Labour activists were told the quotes were said by Boris they said he was unfit for office. Upon being told the truth their squirming is excruciating…
https://order-order.com/2019/12/05/corbynistas-react-think-corbyns-anti-semitism-said-boris/

To this must be added the fact that momentum only tried to register with the electoral commission after being reported by Guido.
Back in Mar 6, 2019 - The Electoral Commission finds Momentum guilty of "multiple breaches", but the group says the fines levied are "disproportionate".(This was for offences committed during the last election in 207)

Slow Learners or what?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 10:29 AM

It's a wonder that any caption generator can get the greased albino piglets incoherent babble right. There is that much umming and ahhing amongst the propaganda and senseless drivel that most people would only be able to translate half of it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 10:13 AM

Make's you wonder if watermelon smiles, piccaninnies, letterboxes etc were all mistakes too.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 10:07 AM

While there is no doubt the captioning was a problem, and that went viral, I doubt if it was intentional on the part of C4. It often happens that the captions that are automatically generated get it wrong and then have to be manually corrected. I have seen it many times: one of my favourites was when the presenter said "here are the latest borrowing figures" and the caption came up "Here are the latest boring figures." Mistakes like this happen when you are trying to do this automatically. This is a particularly unfortunate one and C4 corrected it and apologised quickly, but not quite quickly enough to stop those who want to capturing it and making complaints about it (and there may be different people in each group)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 10:05 AM

(order-order.com) utilizes emotionally loaded language
It follows the disinformation campaign protocol known by many.

Still shilling for the russains huh Iains
I expected more desperate measures

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 09:36 AM

Channel 4 have been caught out smearing Boris – by mis-captioning his speech from yesterday and replacing the word ‘talent’ for ‘colour’. Is it any wonder the Tories are waging war with the propagandists…

Boris, speaking in Derbyshire, said he was “in favour of having people of talent come to this country”, however when Channel 4 uploaded the clip they claimed he said “people of colour” – listen for yourself above.

Boris uses the quote so often it could be considered his catchphrase (for example in this BBC interview), yet Channel 4 took it upon themselves to mislead thousands.


https://order-order.com/2019/12/06/channel-4-smears-boris-false-quote/

Very dishonest these lefties!
and for those that deliberately mishear the clip:
6 Dec 2019, 11:55 Updated:
FAKE NEWS Channel 4 forced to issue grovelling apology after subtitle error sparks Boris Johnson racism smears

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 08:11 AM

Thank you DMcG. I realize changing minds is not the point, but over here there are intelligent people who decide to 'go along to get along' and become like vampires, once bitten they are all in.

They become willing to knowingly lie about what they know to be false.
I thought perhaps Russain interference and murder was enough for a few to become extra weary and wary. Here. Trump fatigue has become Trump trauma.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:57 AM

That does not alter the argument. If it makes you happier, restrict it to those cases where it is the airline's choice. Then apply the argument there.

I should warn you I used to work for the Economic Regulation Group of the UK Civil Aviation Authority - this is not entirely off the top of my head.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:50 AM

But the refunds required means the point at which it is economic to cancel the plane changes,
In the vast majority of cases the reason the plane is not flying is outside the control of the airline. In aviation especially, safety over rides economic concerns.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:29 AM

I am more than curious if anyone of you have done a 180 or changed their minds since the original Brexit vote??

Or even been nudged right or left??

That's a perfectly fair question. Donuel, but I can only answer for myself. I certainly haven't 180-ed. I doubt very many people do on any topic, but as you say it can happen. Those who do tend to be true zealots for whatever they have switched to, on the few occasions I have met them.

Have I moved further left? To some extent. I have voted for Conservatives in the past on a few occasions. Two that spring to mind: the local Tory MP was hard working and very involved in the local community. He really did his best to work for the constituency and I think that important. So I was happy to let him continue that in the next election. On another occasion I voted against my ward's Labour MP and for the person I thought most likely to defeat him (who was a fairly moderate tory). That MP was a rubber stamp: He voted on party lines 100% of the time and showed not one glimmer of independent thought. That is not how I think a constituency should be represented.

So imagine I was in that position today. Would I have voted for them? Most likely not. Not that my views of them would differ, but that the issue at stake is too great. And I am not just talking Brexit: I mean things like what is becoming known as the 'page 48' issue where the Conservatives appear to be trying to centralise all power in the Executive's hands, weakening Parliament, the courts, the Lords …

Am I far left? Definitely not by European wide standards I am very moderate. While nowhere is perfect, of course, I reckon the Scandinavian countries tend to do things a lot better than we do.

In so far as I am Tory, I am a one nation Tory. By which I mean when deciding whether to do something - support a factory for example - you look at the factory, and the businesses around it, and the impact on costs to the country of people becoming unemployed and so on, and assess the impact on the whole of the UK when making your decision. I contrast this with a mode of thought that asks if that factory is viable in its own right? If not, tough, and we will not think about any consequences for the rest of the country.


I can illustrate this with a discussion I had with Teribus some years back. Someone had mentioned EU airlines have to pay compensation to passengers if it is cancelled and he was strongly against this: it is up to the airline to consider its profitability and cancel or not in line with that. (As it happens, that is how it is done in many parts of the world.)

That is classic free market thinking, not One Nation.

A One Nation Tory says that for destinations apart from holiday makers, almost all the passengers on the plane are businessmen. And they are flying to conferences, to sales presentations, to trade shows and so on. And if they don't show, they are very likely to lose business. The trade show is on the Wednesday: there is no point showing up on the Thursday instead.

So the One Nation Tory says 'how do we share the risk?' And they do so by letting the airlines have a slightly higher fare so it includes a sort of insurance component to cover any refunds that arise. But the refunds required means the point at which it is economic to cancel the plane changes, so they are more likely to fly and these salesmen to get to the trade show and the UK gets more income. That's One Nation thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 06:58 AM

I am more than curious if anyone of you have done a 180 or changed their minds since the original Brexit vote??

Or even been nudged right or left??

In my country I have seen the reigious right do a 180 on the teachings of Jesus by supporting trump might over right.

after 5,000 posts or more has anyone changed their minds over anything?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 06:35 AM

Info on the rats in the sack!
Latest polls:

SavantaComRes: Con: 42% (-1) LAB: 32% (-1) LDEM: 12% (-1) BREX: 3% (-1)

PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

       Tories: 2/5 (4/9)
       No overall: 9/4 (15/8)
       Labour: 20/1 (20/1)
       Lib Dems: 250/1 (250/1)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 04:19 AM

I decided to sally forth into the Mail Online, the Express and others to see how they are treating the Andew Neil challenge to Mr Johnson. They do mention it, because I suppose they feel they have to, but they seem to have it as low down in the presentation as they can get away with. For example, one thinks a random Question Time audience member pointing out to a Labour panelist that there was a Brexit vote in 2016 is somehow a surprise to him, and so far more newsworthy. Another highlights Fiona Bruce challenging the SNP that the IFS thinks the Scotland might have more austerity if it votes for independence - as if they were not the strongest of supporters of another topic where some people feel that the risk of some austerity is worth it for greater independence.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 06:09 AM

Burger King marketing guy gets a bonus, I suspect!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 12:32 PM

I watched the dark satire movie "Death of Stalin" last night..

[going soon from Amazon Prime]

That kinda puts leadership power struggles in perspective...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 07:28 AM

Priti Patel wishes to double the penalties for those who attack the police and emergency services. Strange that abbot minor has not hit the headlines! But Guido is Irish based and not subject to UK injunctions.

Meanwhile back at the ranch:
The Muslim Public Affairs Committee‘s (MPAC) campaigning for Labour has been reported to the Electoral Commission and they have been put on legal notice to answer concerns over its possible breaches of election, election finance and data protection laws.

MPAC will also be reported to the police and Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) if it does not give a satisfactory response to a seven-page legal letter sent on behalf of the new Campaign for Ballot Integrity, chaired by former Labour MP John Woodcock.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 06:29 AM

I think I prefer someone taking a bite at a policeman to those who have taken massive chunks out of the police force.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 01:49 PM

Mark Thatcher.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 12:54 PM

6 October 2018
Dianne Abbott was condemned by police last night for claiming that officers are using a ‘disproportionate level of force’ to arrest young black men.
1 hour ago
- The son of Diane Abbott, the Shadow Home Secretary, has been arrested for biting a police officer on Whitehall on Friday.

Does she hoard the household scran for herself only?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 10:42 AM

Q: How do you know when a Tory is lying?
A: He/she says, “The NHS is not on the table”.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 08:04 AM

From BBC: "Mr Raab suggested it would not be in the US's interests to hike prices if "you reduce the amount, the volume of purchases".


Utter and complete nonsense, of course. A company is interested in profit, not volume of sales. The whole luxury market exists and keeps its prices high precisely by restricting the volume of sales.   

Some markets run on scarcity pricing, some on the "stock 'em high, sell 'em cheap" principle. When you have a monopoly on something, and people's health can depend on your product, going for scarcity pricing can be tempting.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 04:23 AM

I should say I particularly liked the frame about it being a choice between a party that has not addressed anti-Semitism as quickly and thoroughly as it should, and one that has signed up all those who happily call themselves Nazis, since Farage effectively dropped out of the race.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 04:18 AM

Brilliant cartoon

In my opinion, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 03:01 PM

Latest polls:

Survation: CON: 42% (+1) LAB: 33% (+3) LDEM: 11% (-4) BREX: 3% (-2)
YouGov: CON: 43% (-) LAB: 34% (+2) LDEM: 13% (-) BREX: 2% (-2)
DeltapollUK: CON: 45% (+2) LAB: 32% (+2) LDEM: 15% (-1) BREX: 3% (-)

PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

       Tories: 1/2 (2/5)
       No overall: 7/4 (9/4)
       Labour: 20/1 (20/1)
       Lib Dems: 250/1 (250/1)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 07:10 AM

I think that there's a widespread misconception in the country about prison sentences, which makes it look like we've gone soft on crime. Typically, though with plenty of exceptions, a sentence will be spent half in prison and half on licence after release. Sentencing judges clearly have to take this into account so that, as they see it, the perpetrator will spend an appropriate time "behind bars."

In my view the current case represents a tragic mistake. In the vast majority of cases like this one the "early" release works just fine. We have to ask whether cutbacks in the services that assess, supervise and rehabilitate convicted criminals contribute to the mistakes. Considering that the Tories have been in charge for almost a decade, it is vexatious in the extreme for Johnson to try to blame the last Labour government for the terrorist incident. A shocking misjudgement.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 07:05 AM

I am not going to attempt to argue the what the law says - anyone can read it for themselves. But I think it a curious interpretation that minor criminals can be released subject to HDC, but that more serious criminals can be released with no supervision at all. The clause we are discussing can only reasonably mean they cannot be released, or a more thorough supervision than HDC is required if they are released.


I have made my point, you have made yours. It is now up to third parties to decide what they think.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 06:57 AM

Oh, and that was 400.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 06:56 AM

But as my links make clear (and the second one is to the legislation) your comment So those imprisoned for 16 years fall into the 'more than four years' exclusion. relates to HDC, it does not prevent 'early release'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 06:44 AM

It may be that the journalists, and party spokesmen, that you criticise are speaking from a deeper knowledge than your quick scan of some of the law allow

Well, that is always possible, of course. None of us are omniscient. But as far as a link goes, it was to the actual legislation on the government web site.

There are close links between early release and HDC, because it is release under supervision under the leglislation, and HDC is one of the means of supervision.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 06:31 AM

Sorry, first link didn't work, try:HDC

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 06:28 AM

DMcG:
You don't give a link to your authority for the last cut and paste, but it appears you may be confusing early release with HDC (Home detention curfew).
The fact that those with sentences over 4 years are not eligible for HDC (details >Here) they may still be eligible for early release:
Section 14: Definition of “requisite custodial period”
197.
Section 14 inserts a definition of “requisite custodial period” into the interpretation provision in Chapter 6 of Part 12 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003. “Requisite custodial period” has different meanings for different sentences. For the purposes of a standard determinate sentence (covered by section 243A and 244), the ‘requisite custodial period’ ends at the half-way point; for the purposes of an extended determinate sentence (imposed under section 226A or 226B) it ends at the two-thirds point of the custodial term, or the half-way point of the custodial term for extended sentences imposed under the previous regime (under section 227 or 228) From Here

It may be that the journalists, and party spokesmen, that you criticise are speaking from a deeper knowledge than your quick scan of some of the law allows.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 06:24 AM

More from car crash Corbyn


https://order-order.com/2019/12/02/jeremy-corbyn-expelled-labour-party/

within the hollow crown
That rounds the mortal temples of Corbyn
Keeps Death his court and there the antic sits,
Scoffing his state and grinning at his pomp,
Allowing him a breath, a little scene,
To monarchize, be fear’d and kill with looks,
Infusing him with self and vain conceit,
As if this flesh which walls about our life,
Were brass impregnable, and humour’d thus
Comes at the last and with a little pin
Bores through his castle wall, and farewell Corbyn!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 04:39 AM

Every time Corbyn opens his mouth he harms his party. We valiant Brexiteers merely sit on the sidelines and applaud his antics.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 04:27 AM

True, Backwoodman, but I find it occasionally useful when chatting to an ordinary voter or canvasser to refer to the actual document.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 03:48 AM

Oh come on DMcG, you know the mantra of the present Tory government, led by Dom & Dumber, as well as any of us - “Never let the truth get in the way of a Corbyn-bashing opportunity”.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 03:37 AM

I have just been reading the actual legislation for Early Release of Prisoners, rather than what a journalist or party spokesman may think:
Here is section 7.13 of the memorandum, which is saying people who should be excluded from the legislation for early release.
=====
Statutory exclusions apply, including all registered sex offenders, those convicted of a violent or sexual offence and serving an extended determinate sentence, and offenders who have ever been recalled to prison for failing to comply with the HDC curfew conditions. Those sentenced to imprisonment for four years or more are statutorily excluded from the scheme. Some offenders may be statutorily eligible to be considered for HDC but are, as a matter of policy, presumed unsuitable for the scheme in the absence of exceptional circumstances. Offenders presumed unsuitable for release on HDC include those serving a sentence for terrorism offences, cruelty to children and homicide.
===
So those imprisoned for 16 years fall into the 'more than four years' exclusion. Then there is 'Offenders presumed unsuitable … include …. terrorism offences.'
So no, there was no 'automatic release' for the London Bridge attacker.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 04:54 PM

I think you’d find we’d both be right.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 03:56 PM

I'd agree with you but then we'd all be wrong!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 03:51 PM

An excellent piece today on FB from Attila The Stockbroker, which I’m C&P-ing below.

”Had a long and fascinating conversation with Ed Miliband last night about press and media bias against the Labour Party and his experience of it, which obviously took a hell of a lot out of him at the time. The disgusting, yes, antisemitic slurs against his father, the endless seeking out of unfavourable photo shots, just one chapter in an endless campaign of vilification and abuse against the Left. Foot's donkey jacket, Kinnock's bald head, the sneers, the personal taunts...

The contemptible individuals who write this stuff are a disgrace to the journalistic profession: they are the brown-nosing hirelings of billionaires and should have no place in a civilised society. The only Labour leader since my adulthood to have escaped the disgusting demolition of the right wing press is Blair, and he flew to Australia and prostrated himself before Rupert Murdoch to achieve it. That is not a democratic process, and in terms of the media, this country is not a democracy.

Everything is skewed in favour of the Tories since, obviously, rich media barons want to protect their wealth, and the most disgusting and hypocritical aspect of all this is that these proprietors feel entitled to be as biased as they like while vilifying public service broadcasters whom they accuse of favouring the Left.

It shouldn't matter whether a media outlet is privately or publicly owned: they are all supposed to be providing a public service and should be accountable as such. And no outlets should be owned by wealthy individuals, but should be shareholders' co-operatives like the newspaper I am proud to write for.

Across the board, and especially at election times, there needs to be a media watchdog with the teeth of a thousand Siberian tigers enforcing impartiality, fairness and the eradication of what is so laughably called 'fake news.' That doesn't mean that outlets should not be biased towards one side of the other. It does mean that, by law, there should be equal media representation of the ideas of Right and Left.”

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 03:20 PM

Who knows perhaps they will be honouring Mosley next. THE FASCISTLEADER AND PROBABLY THE LAST LABOUR MP WHO WAS AN ANTI SEMITE

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 02:59 PM

Funny how the Tories’ only tactic for the past few years is to hurl around accusations of ‘anti-semitism’ in the LP, yet Theresa May seems to have been perfectly happy about unveiling a statue to a ‘virulent anti-semite’. Boris Johnson also seemed very happy to visit the statue.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 12:50 PM

Five lies Johnson told on the Marr programme this morning.

He’s an absolute disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 12:44 PM

The full transcript of Johnson, on the Marr programme this morning, trying to blame Labour in general, and Jeremy Corbyn in particular, for the Terrorist attack on London Bridge on Friday.

I cannot recall a more nauseating piece of reading in my entire adult life. What a disgusting, lying piece of excrement Johnson is.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 19 - 07:09 PM

That last post of mine was mashed and prematurely posted before I'd reviewed it, then I got waylaid by issues beyond. Sorry about that. Please ignore!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Nov 19 - 04:13 PM

Quite an interesting leaflet of my ERG supporting Tory MP today: it didnt mention Brexit at all. The only mention of a Labour wanting a further referendum was, and I quote, "to break up Britain.' Even that was in the smallest font on the leaflet, though "SNP to back Labour government only with Scottish independence vote" was much larger and prominent (though still on the back
page).

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 08:46 PM

These Tories simply can't help themselves. Well, I suppose thst the Bullingdon Clud A remark by a Conservative general election candidate about a Sikh politician's turban is being treated by police as a "hate incident".
Philip Dunne, who is seeking to return as MP for Ludlow, Shropshire, said Labour rival Kuldip Sahota was "talking through his turban" during hustings in Church Stretton on Wednesday.
"It's disrespectful and ridiculing my faith. I'm pleased the police are investigating it as a hate incident," said Mr Sahota.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 08:14 PM

Watched the mostly-heat-little-light debate this evening. That big gangling brexit git is just risible, and the Tories sent a robot. Caroline was impressive, as was Nicola. But my hero was Rebecca Long-Bailey. A star in the making. And begod, she smiles. A Manchester girl (supports Man U, unfortunately, but hey ho), whose dad, like my grandad, worked in Salford docks. A proper northern leftie. Tekkit from me, she's the next Labour leader or I'll eat my hat! Great night for the women!   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:50 PM

Someone I know commented that when you see Bozza and his old man together you can easily figure out how to spell Pinocchio. There are two "C"s

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:17 PM

LOL! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:11 PM

Little pfr is deeply offended that you should associate cocks with that family...