BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 03:11 AM

Pfr an example from the gruniard:
But when asked on Tuesday by the chair of the foreign affairs select committee, Tom Tugendhat, whether there had been policy advice on whether to participate in the EU ventilator scheme, the FCO’s most senior mandarin appeared to contradict the government line.

McDonald told the committee: “It was a political decision. The UK mission in Brussels briefed ministers about what was available, what was on offer, and the decision is known.”

His remarks appeared to blow a hole in the original defence of a “communication confusion” previously put forward by the Cabinet Office minister, Michael Gove.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/uk-refusal-of-eu-ventilator-offer-was-political-decision

But we find the Gruniard not only relies on inuendo but also tells a pack of lies unlike the highly esteemed Mr Guido!
How else to explain the following?

Top civil servant is forced into embarrassing U-turn after claiming ministers made a 'political decision' to DELIBERATELY snub EU schemes to buy PPE – and now accepts Downing Street just missed the email

    Sir Simon McDonald made the claim to MPs in remote committee meeting today
    It directly contradicted previous explanation offered by Downing Street
    Matt Hancock later said that the civil servant's version of events was not right
    Health Secretary: 'There was no political decision not to participate in scheme'
    Today Sir Simon wrote to Foreign Affairs committee chair to say he was wrong   

And humiliatingly, Health Secretary Matt Hancock confirmed there was 'no political decision not to participate in the scheme' during this evening's Downing Street press conference.
Sir Simon McDonald told MPs it had been a 'political decision' not to take part in Brussels-orchestrated efforts to bulk-buy protective equipment, but had to U-turn this evening
This evening Sir Simon McDonald sent a letter to the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee in an embarrassing U-turn

In the letter, addressed to chair Tom Tugendhat, Sir Simon admits the 'facts of the situation are as previously set out'.

He says: 'Unfortunately due to a misunderstanding, I inadvertently and wrongly told the Committee that Ministers were briefed by UKMIS on the EU's Joint Procurement Agreement scheme and took a political decision not to participate in it.

'This is incorrect. Ministers were not briefed by our mission in Brussels about the scheme and a political decision was not taken on whether or not to participate.'

He went on: 'Owing to an initial communication problem, the UK did not receive an invitation in time to join in four joint COVID EU procurement schemes.

'As four initial schemes had already gone out to tender we were unable to take part.'

Previously, Sir Simon, the permanent under-secretary at the Foreign Office, told MPs on the committee that officials briefed ministers on what EU schemes were still open to the UK, even though it left the bloc at the end of January.

So we have a sh*t stirring civil serpent and a paper ready to print dirt without fact checking.
Looks like typical lefty politics to me. Utterly disgusting. "quelle surprise" It would appear my first description of the Guardian was seriously in error. The rag is even worse than I initially portrayed it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 03:10 AM

A further point Iains
Anybody who automatically dismisses a paper of the standing of The Guardian without presenting any evidence as you constantly do, yet relies as heavily as you do on a professional propagandist who employs people to gather his propaganda undermines any chance of his having own credibility accepted in discussions such as this
Nobody with any sense does this without offering back-up argument
I'm not making this as an insult - I'm offering it as a piece of advice
I share the views of those who believe that rational right-wing argument presented in a reasonable if not friendly manner would be a tremendous asset to this forum
As things stand, you don't begin to qualify - sorry
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 02:10 AM

"full of malicious inuendo and shy on fact"
Sez the feller who who baosts about being reliant on blogs from a convicted criminal professional right wing blogger with links to the ultra-right British National Party (and can't spell innuendo)
Yeah - well - I'll have to think long and carefully about that argument
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 01:56 AM

All heart aren’t they, those billionaire private landlords?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 08:44 PM

Soft faces, hard cases, hit you with their deadly smile...

And so to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 08:39 PM

Wonder if the tory govt classify bailiffs as essential workers...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 08:35 PM

Don't bring a shrimp to a fish fight...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 08:33 PM

In the meantime, take in this little snippet about what Toryism really means:

Tenants who asked their billionaire landlord for a rent reduction during the coronavirus pandemic were told to use the money they would have spent on lunches and holidays to pay the full amount due.

More than 100 residents living in a block in Somerford Grove, east London, signed a letter addressed to their management estate agency and the building’s corporate landlords asking for a 20% reduction in rent and an agreement that no tenant would be evicted during the coronavirus pandemic.

But the letting agent, Tower Quay properties, told them their request was “unreasonable” and “unrealistic”, adding that any drop in tenants’ income would be minimised by a reduction in spending on holidays, entertainment, travel, clothes and lunches.

“Subsequently, when all of this is taken into account, in most cases we believe the impact on disposable income will be minimal, and there is therefore no justification for any reduction in rent, especially considering that whilst tenants are isolating the wear and tear in properties is increasing, which will be at the cost of the landlord,” the agent said.

Nice!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 08:23 PM

You're not wrong, mate. But let's not allow the hypocrisy of that thread pass us by...We are ghettoed whereas they can sneer superciliously from outside the fish tank with impunity... At least, I'm guessing that the cod-metaphor in that thread will be not only allowed to stand but will quietly be celebrated by many a yank who can't bear our lustiness...

Hey, see but I did there? Fighting fish? Cod? I mean, whaddam I like!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:58 PM

Steve - well we've been pushed into and penned up in this quarantine ghetto..
while 'they' freely stride in at will,
poking us with sharp sticks for their own petty amusement,
so convinced they are too righteous and superior to leave us alone...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:44 PM

Sorry, mate, I'm staying here. Helen patronises, and she's doing it in that thread. She's a bit of a mod manqué.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:41 PM

Steve - Siamese fighting fish thread...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:35 PM

Go and have another vat of wine, Donuel. You glaringly don't belong in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:33 PM

"Not a big fan of the Guardian." Y'know, I've posted about stuff like this several times before. When you read any news source you are imbibing what an editor has decided is most important. If that editor decides that an item isn't important, he'll either not tell you about it at all or he'll put in on the bottom of page 27. As soon as I see any front-page item about devastatingly-unimportant shite about Megan, Vicky Beckham or the queer old dean, I know that an attempt is being made to mass-manipulate us to buy their paper. And why not. Unless they can sell papers, we wouldn't have papers. It's even worse wth the Beeb. They have half an hour to tell us what they've decided is important for us to know. At the moment they're telling us overwhelmingly about deaths caused by coronavirus. You'd think that little else was going on in the world. They don't even tell us not to worry, only about one in a hundred will actually die, and that flu, which they never mention, will see just as many of us off, pro rata, every winter.

But here's the rub. The Guardian, the Indy and the Beeb, imperfect and arbitrary tho' their news coverage is, strain themselves to separate news from comment. There are news items that read neutrally, and there are opinion pieces. It's impossible to confuse the two (except for poor Iains, who is so bamboozled by his constant resort to his far-right criminal muse that he can't tell news from comment, as he's just demonstrated, a bit like champions of the Daily Mail). Like it or not, you have to educate yourself to be very discriminating as to what you accept from the mass media, and your default mode should be total scepticism. Bejaysus, the Guardian gets me hopping bloody mad at least one a day. The very worst thing is to indulge in confirmation bias. Go to Staines and he'll always tell you precisely what you want to hear. That's how he makes his money. Poor Iains can't see it. He's never tried to discriminate. He wants to hear only what his puppet-masters have decided he should hear and what they've told him he must pass on. Hence the post at 05.17 PM.

That'll do for now...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:07 PM

Facts are scared not sacred. In this day and age they might be fake.
The main thing is to obey Steve's all powerful facts, preferences and self proclaimed infallibility with profound sacred respect. ;^]

All Kidding aside, THROWING the bums out even if they are guilty of genocidal manslaughter is nearly impossible. Even Isreal and the US can not get rid of their discredited leaders. The last leader who got his just deserts was who, Mousselini , Kadaffy?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:04 PM

"As soon as the Guardian is quoted we know it is an opinion piece, full of malicious inuendo and shy on fact."

well.. I'm not a big fan of the Guardian either..
so I can try to see that as an attempt at a jokey wind up..


But if you seriously believe your accusation is true...!!!???

that's exactly the same kind of crazily biased nonsense
parroted by fanatical far right BBC haters..

oh well.. each to their own conspiracy theories...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 05:42 PM

You really do have to stop this. The piece I quoted is a news report, not an opinion piece. Comment is free. Facts are sacred.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 05:17 PM

As soon as the Guardian is quoted we know it is an opinion piece, full of malicious inuendo and shy on fact.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 05:00 PM

More evidence that we are in the hands of a dangerously-incompetent government. From today's Guardian:

"The government has missed opportunities to secure at least 16m face masks for NHS staff in the past four weeks, amid growing frustration from companies who say Britain is losing much-needed equipment to other countries.

As ministers faced relentless questions over a shortage of personal protective equipment (PPE) in hospitals, suppliers said their offers to deliver UK-standard face masks were being met with silence from the government.

And on another day of chaos over the government’s PPE procurement, a senior civil servant said that its decision to stay out of a joint EU scheme was politically motivated. However he was forced to retract his claim within hours after he was contradicted by the health secretary, Matt Hancock.

Adding to the confusion, Hancock claimed that the UK had now joined the scheme – only for EU sources to note that that had happened recently so Britain would not benefit from the supplies of emergency equipment."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 04:24 PM

I should ask D. Abbot the queen of mathermagic!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 04:05 PM

"Apparently it is a big deal Boris missed a couple of meeting over the space of 2 months."

2 = 5

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 04:02 PM

Whatever spin the rabidly-deluded Tory-boys here attempt to put on Johnson’s abject performance so far (words like ‘lipstick’ and the gloriously-apt ‘pig’ spring to mind!), Polly Toynbee nails it in The Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 03:40 PM

According to this report in The Indepent the is a problem that much of the PPE is the wrong size for women.

I have referred to the book "Invisible Women" before which has a lengthy section on PPE being the wrong size and shape for women. It is mainly taking about army and police kevlar vests and similar, which only fairly recently discovered women have breasts it seems, since they made no allowance for them.

A completely different type of PPE of course, but is it plausible people are thinking more about numbers than whether they will fit? Absolutely.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 03:25 PM

buggering cross-post 3:18.. mine should have posted first.. bah...

but anyway..

"I would have thought the left would be better served seeking unity"

Don't worry about that, we are more likely to make genuine attempts seeking that after the crisis,
despite inevitable tory resistance and cover ups...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 03:18 PM

.. so what's the peace time equivalent of "War Crimes"...???

.. and not even against a foreign enemy, but your own nation's citizens...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 03:18 PM

So whether the PM did or did not attend is a good indicator if he did that plate-stepping.

Maybe maybe not. But Not enough data to judge either way. It is also important to note the meeting may have been charged to present the PM with reasoned options.As was said earlier it is not essential for the PM to be present. The meeting was in cabinet office briefing room A. We have no knowledge of the frequency of meetings, the subjects discussed, or the constituent members.
The only gaugefor comparison we have in the public domain, that I can find, is that Blair attended 3 cobra meetings in the fist five years of his premiership. Apparently it is a big deal Boris missed a couple of meeting over the space of 2 months. Without knowing the members, or matters up for discussion it is merely a smear from the left. More "window" thrown out to needlessly distract the government from their job, while they have to refute the more outlandish media distortions. I would have thought the left would be better served seeking unity than constantly sniping at thee government, because once those court cases start labour is going to be a busted flush - straight down the pan.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 02:41 PM

Philip Pullman in the Guardian:

Philip Pullman has said that the UK government “should be arraigned on charges of conspiracy to murder” if it is found that “for Brexit-related reasons” MPs did not take part in the EU procurement scheme to buy PPE.

The government has previously said it was unable to join the EU schemes as it had not received an email of invitation. But the Guardian revealed last week that the UK missed three opportunities to be part of the EU scheme to bulk-buy masks, gowns and gloves.

In a bitingly critical essay published by Penguin, the author of His Dark Materials says the entire front bench should resign if it is found to be true that MPs declined to participate “for Brexit-related reasons”. But Pullman predicted that no resignations would follow because the MPs responsible “have not a single grain of shame”.

“So they should be arraigned on charges of conspiracy to murder. Nothing less will do. They knew the risks, and thought they’d rather appease the foaming zealots of Brexit..."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 02:27 PM

"Cobra is not a universal panacea"
This is real get-out-of-jail-freeism
Whatever the shortcoming of the present system (which only appear to surface hen the cock-up merchants need digging out of Klart-ups of their own making) that is what Briaish politics choose to work with and, if that's what they've got, they are to blame for it
I'd have had my arse kicled from here to breakfast--time if I tried "my screwdriver didn't work boss"
These fuck-pups are unacceptably life threatening (and taking) errors which have been noticed widely by the public and the press but are still being ignored
Perhaps it's time to re-visit Dr Ryan's film blog (Dave?) and note when he was demanding heads should roll

This is excusing the inexcusable for Party political purposes while far too many people are still falling ill and dying   
Maybe it can be pinned on Tony Blair or Corbyn ?
Nothing would surprise me anymore
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 02:16 PM

Funny, innit. When Labour were in power in 2008 and there was a GLOBAL financial meltdown going on, it was all Labour's fault. Why, we still occasionally hear them blamed, even today. Yet when the Tories execute an almighty screw-up, including ignoring a report from four years ago that shudderingly and precisely predicted that the NHS under the Tories was not fit for purpose and would be pitched into peril should there be a pandemic, it's all the fault of squabbling factions not in power who dare to criticise. We've done worse than every other country except for the US, and the light is not at the end of the tunnel. That can't be explained away by moaning about the opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 02:14 PM


Cobra is not a universal panacea. At the end of the day the day the question to be answered is did the government recognise the severity of the problem and did they step up to the plate?

That is so. But by the account you posted :
According to the Institute for Government (IFG), “COBRA’s purpose is high-level coordination and decision-making in the event of major or catastrophic emergencies, including natural disasters, terrorist attacks and major industrial accidents or disruption”.


That is, COBRA is specifically intended to enable the government to 'step up to the plate'. So whether the PM did or did not attend is a good indicator if he did that plate-stepping.

I agree with pfr that what happens from now on is more important than what went before, but it is unfortunate fact of life that if people make a mess of things, they often need to be faced with it to bring about a change. It is one reason why most businesses do 'Personal Development Interviews' or whatever the jargon is/was in your company. Loking back on what didn't work is an important guide to doing better in future. I don't hold with idea of just keep pushing forward without looking at what mistakes if any are being made ( (c) P Patel) and only when all this is over in who knows how long, have a inquiry lasting a year or two and preferably only reporting after the next election ...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 02:09 PM

Iains sounds very reasonable. Bottom line, we gotta change our ways.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 02:02 PM

Cobra is not a universal panacea. At the end of the day the day the question to be answered is did the government recognise the severity of the problem and did they step up to the plate? It does not matter if they met in the parlour or squatted in the outside bog. It is not about where they held the meetings as much as how did they deal with the issue.
I am quite happy for an enquiry when the flak settles. Inevitably lessons will be learnt and perhaps even acted on. The opposition constantly needling just illustrates what an absolute mess they are in. They cannot even present a united argument(see Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:32 AM) This is hardly surprising as they have split into a series of squabbling factions.
Just like the flu this virus carries a mortality rate with it. Some it will kill regardless of what medical techniques and equipment is thrown at it. This seems to be overlooked. Have the medical facilities been swamped?
No not yet
Have we run out of ventilators? It has not been reported.
Have we run out of oxygen? It has come close but the German company owning BOC has a similar problem. In Gernmany it is reported demand has increased 10 fold. Manufacturers are demanding regulations are relaxed in order to satisfy demand.
PPE shortagesj are a problem not unique to the UK. The US has been accused of runway piracy, an exaggeration I am sure. European countries have tried commandeering contracted supplies, namely France and Germany. Having outsourced most of its production to China and India, those low prices have come back with a sting in the tail.
Turning over production takes time and any existing contracts on home produced material requires honouring first. NHS procurement also has a part to play in this unhappy tale - they are certainly not blameless.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 01:32 PM

What is clear right now,
is that emergency contingency planning
has so far not been anywhere near good enough..

Retro blame games are too much of a distraction.
Now is year zero for starting over fresh, and getting it right for our future...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 01:23 PM

It would be reasonable, I think, to expect senior cabinet ministers, including the Prime Minister to attend all COBRA meetings.

These meetings are called to address urgent issues and again to my mind it would be essential that all senior staff would be au fait with the issue. All parts of that issue.

To receive any information "second hand" does not normally allow a full and clear picture of the situation to be arrived at.

Thus any minister, and certainly the Prime Minister, missing these meeting could be construed as a dereliction of duty.

Please note this applies to any government of any persuasion.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 01:20 PM

Absolutely, Jim. After ripping each other to pieces for two and a half hours we'd reassure ourselves that we were on the same side but that we merely had "different perspectives..." :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 01:19 PM

"Almost any yank here will do.. "
Surely we need English-speakers who aren't always late for everything ;-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 01:19 PM

Steve - "lefty love-in"..
you can guess which cheeky smiley emoticon
I would have used...

4 lefties in a room.. only 2 factions.. that's a bit optimistic innit...???

.. more like 6 - 8 factions - we're that good at it...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 01:17 PM

"We need to recruit some more conservative mudcatters to our UK BS debates"

You don't have to look far. Almost any yank here will do.. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 01:13 PM

"you'll end up with two bitter factions..."
You must have attended different meetings than I did
Only two ?
The left would have strolled home decades ago if they had stuck to socialis principles rather arm-wrestling over tactics
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 01:05 PM

My original question, "what do we think of Bozza missing 5 COBRA meetings" provides no surprise answers really. The right wingers on here try to justify it while those of us further left condemn it. The excuses given are hinged around whether it is common practice of not. The government supporters say it is but, as I have pointed out before, they are not to be trusted. Just look at the litany of lies I have referenced previously to see why that should be the case.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 12:43 PM

You should know by now that leftie love-ins never happen, pfr. If there's one thing I learned from those smoke-filled 70s rooms in East London, it's that if you put more than about four lefties in a room for half an hour, you'll end up with two bitter factions...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 12:32 PM

"Cobra ? cobblers.."
At least it adds a bit of sting to a somewhat circular discussion - where's me whistle
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 12:25 PM

As for Iains - for whatever mudcat mod's reasons, we are stuck with him/them,

..so let's at least get some use out of his/their 'contributions'..

I can and do on my own terms...

We need to recruit some more conservative mudcatters to our UK BS debates,
to prevent them stagnating into our own little lefty love-in..

Too much stress has been place on Iains to fill the vacuum left by ake, tezza, and dear old keith..

No wonder Iains shows signs of multiple personality disorder,
having to fill all their shoes...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 12:16 PM

Cobra ? cobblers..

just another time wasting waffle distraction..

..at least potatoes were tastier to think about...

Wonder what tomorrows distraction tactic will be...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 12:07 PM

"I recommend a perusal of the Chilcot report and the utter condemnation of Bliar blair taking us off to war under false pretenses.
More whataboutism - Blair was a political thug as is the present crowd
What he did has sfa to do with the presnt crisis other than to act as a diversioion
What about Chamberlain and that piece of paper? - about as relevant as that

I'm not surprised at you but I must say, I expected more from Nigel
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 12:03 PM

I described a simple way of testing whether it is true Brown and Blair never missed a Cobra meeting, while simultaneously checking Gove's claim that PMs missing such meetings is normal?
Would you support getting actual factual information about attendance at Cobra, rather than relying on Gove's assertions or other people's memory? If not, I am prepared to rely on the advisor's memory in the absence of anything better.

I would always favour facts over opinions. But Gove was not asserting that the PM was there (which would be the opposite of the The Scotsman claim), but that the PM was not required to be there. The frequency of Brown/Blair attendances does not influence that fact.
From: The Institute for Government
Who sits on COBR?
The composition of any COBR meeting will depend on the situation being discussed. It will be a mixture of officials and agency personnel, alongside ministers, from relevant departments and agencies. The meetings are often chaired by the most senior minister in the room, and the prime minister if he or she is attending, but not always.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 11:47 AM

What meeting Blair missed in relatively serene times measures minute next to the disgraceful way the present spider in the Number Ten web acted in a national emergency

I recommend a perusal of the Chilcot report and the utter condemnation of Bliar blair taking us off to war under false pretenses. Lack of PPE for troops,lack of dury of care to MOD personnel, not to mention Court action over troops being killed in death trap snatch landrovers. Would you like more?
There was precious little serenity back then as I recall - go ask an Iraqi !

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 11:36 AM

Whatt happened to Blair et-al has nothing to to with the almighty cock up that is still happening, other than to act as a convenient diversion
What meeting Blair missed in relatively serene times measures minute next to the disgraceful way the present spider in the Number Ten web acted in a national emergency - including refusing to be checked after he hobnobbed with virus sufferers - good example for the rest of us, eh what !
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 10:53 AM

No it was cobra meetings.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 10:48 AM

Hadn't realised there was a pandemin in 2002 - isn't that whet we're discussing ?
Jim Carroll