BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 04:14 PM

Aren't you forgetting the Double Taxation Treaty with Indiaaaah??

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 03:30 PM

I seem to recall that the Queen 'decided" to pay tax. Now the missus of The Chancellor has "decided" to pay tax. Great to have the choice, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 03:16 PM

I hope the gutter left is happy with itself interfering in Akshata Murthy's tax affairs.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 01:05 PM

i see her maj is not so well these days, i wonder if the government is waiting for her demise as a good day to bury bad news (see sue gray, p94)

seriously though, what could possibly be causing the delay for the 2 reports? maybe all our available met officers are on standby to storm into loads of newly-vacated properties of very wealthy russians in the event of some opportunistic crustie shinning up a drainpipe round the back.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 09:01 AM

I think Petty Prattle is outdoing the liar in chief at the moment. What a gross insult to the millions of people in the country who want to help Ukrainians in whatever way they can. She just lies through her teeth and thinks she can get away with it. I hope the antics of this current administration are fully remembered come election time. If Steer Calmer does nothing else, he should make sure every man and his dog remember the incompitence, lies and corruption that have become commonplace at Westminster.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 05:22 AM

Of all the most astonishingly ridiculous things Boris Bunter has done, knighting the benighted must rank among the top, er, more than several...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 05:04 AM

Just the sort of paranoia that Putin suffers from

Boris Johnson rules out waiving visa rules for Ukrainian refugees

Rather than do the humanitarian thing, lift all barriers and ask questions later, the complete dick in chief thinks believes that the UK will be inundated with Russian spies disguised as Ukrainian refugees.

There must be enough white powder in that cabinet office to float the whole population of Ukraine here

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 02:33 AM

We are living in strange times.

John Crace in The Guardian

A knighthood for Gavin Williamson? The UK has its own comedian as PM

Some reward for a friend, huh? Certainly not for his work in government.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 02:17 AM

From The Guardian

String of Lords defeats reflects concerns over PM and legislation

"In the aftermath of Boris Johnson’s landslide 2019 general election win, many assumed the political balance within the House of Lords had swung squarely behind the Conservatives after a decade of ennoblements by Tory prime ministers.

David Cameron and Theresa May had between them elevated 136 Conservatives to the upper chamber over the proceeding nine years. By November 2021, Johnson had ennobled 83 people to become life peers, 42 of whom are Conservatives, while many others were fellow Brexit supporters.

And so what has followed has been a surprise. Official figures show that in Johnson’s first parliamentary session from December 2019 to March 2021, the Lords defeated the government on 114 occasions. This is the highest number of defeats in a single parliamentary session since Harold Wilson’s government in 1975-76 was defeated 126 times.

On Monday, the policies at the heart of the Johnson government’s nationality and borders bill were defeated in the Lords on five occasions.

The vote removed a key plank of the bill, known as clause 11, which would have stripped refugees arriving here via irregular routes of full rights such as a right to a family reunion and access to a public safety net. Peers voted by 204 to 126, defeating the clause by a majority of 78."

And

"There is also concern on the red benches that there is a tendency for ministers to make laws that are constructed to avoid line-by-line scrutiny.

Two Lords reports issued in November, one entitled Government by Diktat and the other Democracy Denied, warned that bills often provided only a broad outline of the law, with the details to be filled in later through secondary legislation, which cannot be amended and can become law without parliamentary debate.

Dr Hannah White, the deputy director of the Institute for Government, said the growing number of government defeats appeared to reflect concerns about the government’s laws. “This could indicate concerns in the House of Lords about the quality of the legislation and the powers that ministers are giving themselves in primary legislation,” she said.

After so-called “ping pong” between the two houses – when legislation is pushed back and forth between the upper and lower chamber – the government of the day often pushes laws through eventually, despite Lords defeats."

++

It is worthwhile reading the article in full, as it follows on from my earlier post a couple of days ago.

As is the usual way in this country, we muddle along for so many years without making any changes. The two major parties are alike in that they are happy to leave things as they are. Sometimes the actions of the Lords suits them but frustrates their opponents. Other times it works the other way.

What a carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Mar 22 - 05:29 PM

More incisive argument from Bonzo

Still no justification for the incompetence and corruption of the current administration though

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Mar 22 - 04:57 PM

Hilary Benn makes speeches, Corbyn just waffles drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 Mar 22 - 04:26 PM

From The Guardian

John McDonnell and Diane Abbott pull out of Stop the War rally

"Labour backbenchers including John McDonnell and Diane Abbott have pulled out of attending a Stop the War rally in London on Wednesday amid pressure from Keir Starmer over the group’s stance on Ukraine.

The Labour leader told his party’s MPs on Monday there was “no place” in the party for anyone drawing a “false equivalence” between the actions of Nato and those of Moscow.

Labour sources had suggested that if backbenchers made any comments at the Wednesday evening rally that were critical of Nato or sought to blame the western alliance for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it could lead to the whip being withdrawn.

McDonnell, the former shadow chancellor, subsequently released a statement saying he would not attend the event at Conway Hall in London despite being listed as a speaker.

“People are dying on the streets of Ukrainian cities. This is not the time to be distracted by political arguments here,” he told the website LabourList. “Nothing is more important at this time. Nothing should distract us from that. So I won’t feed into that distraction by going tonight.”

Abbott, the former shadow home secretary, told the Guardian she would not be attending either.

During the event, a man waving a Ukrainian flag interrupted the end of Jeremy Corbyn’s speech. The man was then forcibly removed from Conway Hall."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 02:00 PM

it's very inspiring to see the newly invigorated european parliament these days and the deep desire of the ukranians hoping to join. it seems a long way from the grubby and insular english parliament. is it too much to hope that the labour party might have a rethink, a bit of principle and a return to sanity and fully embrace a return to sanity in the EU? obviously, the tory party are a hopeless case but if the uk is ever going to get back on its feet we have to be able to rely on a competent labour party

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 01:43 PM

It's a worrying trend, Rain Dog. Putin seems to have started it. Trump, emboldened by his Russian pals, tried it in the US and has, I hope, failed. Bozo and his cronies here would love to grab that sort of power but either they are inept, we would not put up with it or both.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 01:28 PM

BBC Radio 4 - Law in Action

Worth a listen for the following item:

"Is our democracy being eroded by the government, by reducing parliament’s opportunities for scrutiny? Two reports from the House of Lords Select Committees, titled "Government by Diktat" and "Democracy Denied", say there is an urgent need to return power to parliament. They worry about power grabs and an increased use of secondary legislation - ie laws made by ministers, that can’t be amended by MPs or peers. One recent piece of secondary legislation made it legal in England for children in care aged 16 and above to be housed in unsupervised adult accommodation such as hostels. Joshua hears from a care-experienced writer what that was like, and the risks that vulnerable children might face in such housing. The law is now being challenged in the courts."

++

The following article at Constitutional Law Matters
gives links to both reports, though I could not get the PDF for the Government By Diktat report to open. An online report can be found here:

Government by Diktat

It is a trend that various governments have used in the last 40 years. Of course in the last few years with both Brexit and covid, it has been used even more often.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 01:05 PM

Agreed, Pete.

Is that all you have bonzo? Personal attacks? No justification for constant lies, mismanagement and corruption?

Doesn't surprise me really.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 12:13 PM

yes dave, this is far from the first time we have asked for sensible, coherent arguments say, for brexit, or for other tory policies. Sadly, we can't attract anyone with the wherewithal to defend reactionary shortsightedness in any coherent way. see above

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 11:55 AM

Why is it that this forum is subject to constant lefty drivel?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 11:44 AM

I see petty prattle is at it again. I was quite impressed when she answered a direct question about whether a specific Ukrainian refugee would be allowed to enter the UK and she instantly gave an unequivocal "yes". Wow, thought, never seen that before. Of course the illusion was blown apart when her own office confirmed that she was telling lies.

Why is it that, as crisis follows crisis and scandal follows scandal we are saddled with the most incompetent, corrupt and dishonest shower that has ever led our country?

Come on you Tories out there. Justify your party's antics if you can. BTW, Corbyn would have been worse is speculation, not justification

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 05:12 AM

With all the turmoil at Chelsea football club (I usually call them Chelski, but I'll refrain for now), he could well have a hand in their prospective defeat to Liverpool in the League Cup final later today. I hope not. I want to see a great game.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 03:06 AM

Steve :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 22 - 03:36 PM

He was probably behind the dirty foul committed on Mo Salah by Sergio Ramos which lost Liverpool the 2018 Champions League final.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 22 - 03:23 PM

Not just Britain leaving the EU, Stilly, but he had a hand in the Scotland leaving the UK referendum as well. Luckily the Scots were too canny to fall for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Feb 22 - 01:17 PM

I don't think that much meddling was needed.

The terms of the vote should have been made clearer from the start. Should have insisted on a clearer majority to leave.

There should have been agreement by all the parties on how they would implement a leave vote. We all saw the disruption caused when they tried to leave.

I still don't know what Cameron and his advisers were on when they thought they were going to win fairly easily. Might have helped if they had got out and about to speak to those outside London.

There was no proper debate. None of us knew what the terms of leaving would be. We could all guess but none of us could know for sure. Look how long the negotiations went on for before we finally left.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 22 - 12:58 PM

It's pretty clear that meddling in the whole Brexit process was part of Putin's long game.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Feb 22 - 12:48 PM

Labour Party seizes control of youth wing’s Twitter account

"Young Labour has had its Twitter account “restricted until further notice” by the Labour Party. Young Labour is the official youth section of the party, representing members under the age of 27.

A statement from the Young Labour Twitter account read, “We regret to inform you that access to the @YoungLabourUK Twitter account has been restricted until further notice. As an official channel for the Youth Wing of the Labour Party, we expect certain standards of behaviour from those with responsibility for this page’s output. In particular, it has become apparent that the account has recently become actively detrimental to the Party’s core objectives: to promote Labour candidates and policies, and to win elections.”

No similar posts have been made on other Young Labour social media channels at the time of publication."

And

"The move to restrict the Twitter account comes after Young Labour issued a statement on the Labour Party’s response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine that read, “especially concerned in this instance to see Keir Starmer pushing not only for further engagement with NATO, but celebrating it while attacking Stop The War and other pro-peace activists”. Young Labour also condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine – stating, “Young Labour condemns Vladimir Putin and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The actions of Russia, the use of force and the contravention of international law is utterly reprehensible.”


++

The Young Labour statement can be read here:

Young Labour’s statement to Starmer concerning ‘macho posturing’ over Russia

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 Feb 22 - 07:30 AM

i feel tony blair began the destabilising of europe, or at least our place in the EU. by siding with George W Bush and invading Iraq, he chose to refuse the arguments of Germany and France et al to pursue the foolish goal of a special relationship with the usa.

then cameron chose to take on the threat to the tories by farage and his wee gang of idiots by holding the referendum. then no-one felt the need to campaign to remain too vigorously and turned a blind eye to russian money and meddling.

of course we can blame the wealthy who didn't want their privileges, bonusses and tax breaks challenged by the tougher regulations coming from Brussels.

for whatever disaster and misery in europe that is to come it's sickening to think that our liberal democracies have lost due to our own complacency and to the likes of farage, trump, johnson and others. i wouldn't credit them with the intelligence to plan this current situation but their willingness to go along with putin and his plan to destabilise the west has been traitorous and disastrous

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Feb 22 - 02:37 PM

As we now know that Putin wants a return of the Russian Empire, including the Ukraine and Finland, and that destabilising Europe is a good way of making that happen, it makes a lot more sense of Moscow's interference in the Brexit debate. I always said that the whole leave campaign was built on lies and misinformation. We now know why Russian bots and trolls were involved as well. For those of you who are now feeling silly because leaving Europe has not provided the land of milk and honey that you were promised, please don't. It is not just you. Millions were not only duped by those wanting to make money out of chaos but we now know that Putin's imperialist goals played a major part in the biggest con trick of all time. Let us just hope it is not too late!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Feb 22 - 04:30 AM

Let us hope Labour back it. There is an absurd convention of not supporting motions raised by other parties that has given trouble in the past. To refuse to this time would be about the most damaging stance Labour could take.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 06:57 AM

I see there's talk of a humble address being tabled in order to get the Sue Gray report published unexpurgated. I wonder how many Tories would back it...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 22 - 10:47 AM

Thanks Legolas.

You did say wood elf..?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 04:27 PM

I find myself having to agree with Dave. We seem to have one poster deliberately posting inflammatory and abusive stuff to try to wind others up. Best to let the Mods do their work without comment from the rest of us, the thread will be a happier place.

IMHO, of course, and YMMV.

---

Specific references to racial slurs removed. Bonzo is on a little extended vacation. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 11:02 AM

Perhaps not Thatcher but how about Ted Heath or John Major?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 06:15 AM

So Matt Hancock broke the ministerial code by favouring his family when awarding contracts, broke the lockdown rules by snogging his lover on camera (!) and broke the law by appointing Dido Harding. All this on top of partygate, illegal proroguing and deliberately cultivating a populist culture of inveterate lying. We could lament the demise of the Tories as the party of Laura Norder, but that could mean wistfully looking back with affection on Thatcherism...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 05:36 PM

If you can cast you mind back as far as 31st January - I know, it seems a lifetime ago! - Dominic Cummings said Boris Johnson is obsessed with monuments in his memory “like the Roman emperors”.

It is easy to take this too literally: I am sure he would not object to statues and monuments, but major bridges, "Boris Bikes" and things like that are, I guess, equally acceptable to him.   Anything that keeps his fame in perpetuity will do, I expect. That may well be more relevant than whether a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland does either of them any good.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 04:33 PM

I think the Labour Shadow Transport Minister hit the nail on the head when he said this was a totally unfeasible vanity project by a PM who has no respect for public finances. But hey easier to have a pop at the Scots instead...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 04:22 PM

The principle is the same but it is irrelevant as this was not a Scottish gvt initiative. It was a Boris feasibility study and nothing to do with the Scottish gvt. Why on earth should spending come out of the Scottish gvt's budget when this has nothing to do with the Scottish gvt? There are devolved matters and these are paid for out of the Scottish gvt's budget. This was not a devolved matter. It was the UK gvt's hair brained plan for a possible major project within the UK. I agree it was a waste of money but it was a waste of money by a UK gvt. The Scottish gvt targets its own spending and that did not involve these plans. As well as suggesting she thought Boris was simply throwing this as a diversion the FM, with tongue in cheek, suggested if the UK gvt was going to spend tens of billions on a bridge then they could just give the money to Holyrood and Stormont instead as there are other higher priorities. It has nothing to do with the Scottish gvt so of course it wasn't paid out of the Scottish gvt's budget.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 01:51 PM

The channel tunnel is in England? Only a bit of it Allan!

Don't get me wrong here, I know what you mean. But your argument about who pays is flawed in a number of ways. Firstly, the population of Scotland is 1/10th of England so, tax wise, they contribute only 1/10th towards any UK projects. Secondly, the people of Scotland receive a far higher return on taxes than us in England because of the Barnett formula. Finally, you have cleaner air, better scenery, free University education and less congestion. Give us a break! The only advantage we have is that we get cheaper whisky but thay is only because Nicola Sturgeon hates booze :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 01:14 PM

Well of course Scots and Irish people paid for the Channel Tunnel and are paying for the new high speed rail link even though they are in England. It is by the by. The money spent was spent on the feasibility of the so called Boris bridge without consulting the Scottish gvt. Sturgeon said she did even believe he was completely serious suggesting it was a diversion. I suppose meaning he was trying to appease the DUP about the so called border in the Irish Sea. All by the by. The point is if you (the UK gvt) carry out a feasibility study then you (the UK gvt) pay for it. How could it be any different.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 12:28 PM

why should people in London who did not vote for this government have there taxes wasted on Scottish/Northern Irish infrastructure projects?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 06:56 PM

Why would the Scottish Parliament pay for something completely cooked up by the Conservative UK gvt? A party which has no mandate in Scotland????

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 06:31 PM

I hope the NI and Scottish assemblies were forced to pay for this. I will not have my taxes wasted on rubbish like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 05:43 PM

It is quite straightforward, Bonzo. Most people will be able to identify at least one more issue with Johnson. For example, we could mention him telling people in Northern Ireland to throw any customs forms in the bin. Someone else might want to reference his time as Foreign secretary and his achievements, or the £900,000 wasted exploring the feasibility of a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland.   As I say, I am sure most people could do this if they paid attention.

But I cannot guarantee everyone can, so I said 'most'.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 01:05 PM

You mean us proud lefties? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 12:47 PM

"most" - who are these "most" you mention? Yet again I'm reading drivel from the usual suspects.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 12:21 PM

Apart from all that, he's just great
I am sure most of us can think of a few more.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 10:28 AM

He looks shambolic and he always seems unprepared. Unfortunately, concealed beneath that exterior is a man who feels entitled, a man who has surrounded himself with a bunch of arse-licking toadies, an inveterate liar and a serious threat to our democracy. He broke the law when he tried to prorogue Parliament, he screwed up the Northern Ireland brexit protocol which meant another breach of the law and he's been a serial breaker of his own rules during lockdowns. He tried to change the rules to protect a corrupt MP, he has defended the Home Secretary in the face of her bullying and has protected the useless Metropolitan Police commissioner who has overseen the perpetuation of a rotten culture at the core of the force. His poor response to the pandemic, especially in the early days, has cost tens of thousands of lives. Apart from all that, he's just great.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 09:50 AM

Many of us in the US suffered from coulrophobia while Trump was in office. He was a major scary clown. Evil.

He hounded Hillary, suggesting "lock her up" due to her using a personal email server because the State Department servers sometimes had issues. And now we learn it took a plumber to deal with Trump's messages after he tore and flushed them. Evil clown. Is Johnson as bad as that one? His clownishness seems to be of a more shallow variety. He seems to be a hedonist clown.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 06:55 AM

Having been a primary teacher all my long working life, I've dealt with many 'class clowns', and knew that their daft behaviour was always a means of hiding misdemeanours or shortcomings. Boris seems to me to put on his 'lovable buffoon' act when he's flustered or put on the spot by a searching question.
In my opinion, a leader, statesman, President. Prime Minister etc should at least possess the quality of dignity. That's why I really liked Obama and detested Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 06:25 PM

I imagine we can all agree the man is a clown. But people never seem to agree as to whether clowns are actually funny.