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Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union

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GUEST,Nick Dow 06 Feb 23 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 06 Feb 23 - 02:43 PM
GUEST,Don Wick 06 Feb 23 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 06 Feb 23 - 03:32 PM
GUEST,Anne Lister sans cookie 06 Feb 23 - 05:02 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 23 - 05:17 PM
Rain Dog 06 Feb 23 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 06 Feb 23 - 05:53 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 06 Feb 23 - 06:07 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 06 Feb 23 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,Guest 07 Feb 23 - 03:54 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 23 - 06:41 AM
Nigel Parsons 07 Feb 23 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 07 Feb 23 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,Guest 07 Feb 23 - 10:16 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 07 Feb 23 - 11:02 AM
GUEST,Dave Hanson 10 Feb 23 - 03:15 AM
GUEST,Rossey 10 Feb 23 - 03:39 AM
Acorn4 10 Feb 23 - 04:02 AM
Rain Dog 10 Feb 23 - 07:42 AM
GUEST,Rossey 10 Feb 23 - 12:51 PM
GerryM 10 Feb 23 - 04:00 PM
GUEST 12 Feb 23 - 08:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 01:55 PM

No. Nobody wins. Bang on again Phil.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 02:43 PM

American footballers will kneel for 2 minutes to "wake" the folks to social issues... and then cash a very large paycheck to sacrifice their bodies for the next 2-3 hours putting the same folk back to sleep.

Long game, big picture &c &c... how progressive can a kinder, gentler cheer for the same old circus meatgrinder really be?


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Don Wick
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 03:08 PM

It is Censorship if a choir cannot sing a particular part of the song, mind you, the song is a lot of old squit.
But I defend the right of the anyone to sing any old squit they might want to including "Tiptoe through the Tadpoles"

Stop the nonsense, use your own name. ---mudelf


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 03:32 PM

If you start singing that Don I'll get back on the train with Ed Pickford. That's not censorship it's revenge! :-)


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Anne Lister sans cookie
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 05:02 PM

There are, of course, some interesting points of view being expressed here. Just a couple of points: firstly, incidents of domestic violence increase after both football and rugby matches. This domestic violence is mostly directed by men against women. Secondly, someone suggested the fans wouldn't sing the relevant lines in "Delilah" - seriously? Have you been at the events where it's sung? It's acted out and emphasised but of course it's all in good fun, isn't it, so let's not worry about that. Quite a few people have expressed quite a few reservations over the years, and the WRU have been discouraging it for quite a while, but this time it's got into the media so everyone is talking about it.
I don't know whether it should be dropped from the choirs or banned. It is good fun to sing and most of those enjoying the dramatics and the melodic side of it won't be going home to hit their partners. But yes, the WRU is acutely aware right now of the accusations of misogyny, so it is more of a complex issue than singing a murder ballad in a folk club.
Finally - I was an extra for the filming of "Dream Horse". One of our scenes was a karaoke in a night club, where Karl Johnson's character, suitably inebriated, leads us all in "Delilah", complete with raucous choruses and the dramatic underlining of the lyrics. In the film it is without dire consequences and simply highlights the Welsh Valleys culture, where this is such a normal part of a good night out. The women join in with the men. It is inconceivable that people will stop singing this song. It is, sadly, also inconceivable that most people will recognise just how uncomfortable that leaves women who have been subject to domestic abuse.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 05:17 PM

Well we could go back to the sixties and beyond to single out songs with dodgy lyrics ("of their time"?) The Beatles had some, the Stones had some, Elvis had some, Ol' Blue Eyes had some, Abba had one that I can think of. We can ban 'em, restrict 'em, moan about 'em. Or we can decide that most of 'em probably won't deprave or corrupt, accepting that humans are fairly resilient on the whole, and bite our lips. It's complicated and I'm not going to tell you what I think!


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 05:22 PM

It is not about censorship. It is is about when it is appropriate to sing certain songs at certain times.

The WRU have their own issues to deal with.

I notice that none of the usual posters have answered my earlier post about singing a murder ballad at the funeral of someone who has been murdered.

I suspect that none of you would even think of singing such a song in those circumstances.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 05:53 PM

From the MRU executive perspective, racist and nonracist agree, Delilah is bad optics for the product and bad for shareholder value. 'Banning' is zero overhead. It's a no-brainer, throw the dogs a bone.

The athletes, fans, executives and choir will be no less prone to their individual human & general cultural failings than before. Ban happy Qatar ain't no Garden of Eden.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 06:07 PM

Rain Dog: I notice that none of the usual posters have answered my earlier post about singing a murder ballad at the funeral of someone who has been murdered.

Where I come from, funerals are held in church and nobody would ever dream of singing any ballad of any kind, nice or nasty.

Our wakes would, I suspect, leave you jaw-to-the-floor speechless.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 06 Feb 23 - 07:34 PM

Anne, About your post. May I politely and genuinely ask that unless (God forbid) your experience is first-hand, what qualifies you to describe the cause and effect, portray feelings of the abused, and delineate the gender of the perpetrators? I have been personally, very close to this subject for over fifty years, and would not claim any right to be a spokesperson.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Feb 23 - 03:54 AM

Abuse takes many forms, mental as well as physical.
Women also abuse Men.
Unfortunately it will probably continue regardless of Delilah, or any other songs where women or men are portrayed as objects.
There are many reasons other than music for it happening.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 23 - 06:41 AM

Livin' doll

Good luck charm hanging on my arm
To have, to hold, tonight

Does your mother know that you're out? ( just checkin'!)

I caynt get no girl reaction

I'd rather see you dead little girl
Than to be with another man

Pretty woman
Walkin' down the street
Pretty woman
The kind I'd like to meet

She was just seventeen
You know what I mean (wink wink)

There's a lot of it about...


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Feb 23 - 08:42 AM

I'm almost sorry that I started the thread. But it was being discussed on Mudcat Facebook, and a discussion here was requested.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 07 Feb 23 - 08:54 AM

No, don't be sorry. It has been interesting, and rather encouraging, given the diverse views here. So Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Feb 23 - 10:16 AM

These days abuse happens in all including same sex relationships, so how banning the chorus of that song will help, is a puzzle


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 07 Feb 23 - 11:02 AM

I `ad that Gwyllam Thomas from the Welsh Rugby Union my cab the other day. `e was carrying an enormous ring binder box. It was full of something `cos `3 was `aving difficulty in lugging it around.
I said, " Morning Taff, what `ave you got there? Entries for the next Eisteddford?"
`e said, "Oh no Jim Boyo. It`s a pile of songs we `ave to consider banning at the Cardiff stadium rugby matches. I`ve just spent a couple of days in Tin Pan Alley going through all the material that mentions cruelty to women, animals, murder, executions and all manner of nasties."
I said,"Oh. That`s what banning the choirs from signing "Delilah" was all about. Is that it?"
`e said, "Yeah, We don`t want to be seen as a group of unthinking people, not taking other`s feelings into account."
I said, "Pull the other one Taff. You`re already mired in accusations of mysogony and all sorts of "isms" found in corporate life. You`ve just pulled this rabbit out of the `at as a attempt to "virtue signal" and take the pressure off!!"



Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 03:15 AM

It should have been banned the day it was written.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 03:39 AM

The problem with this banning stuff is that it spreads to actual cancel culture. It's a slippery slope.   The Stones bowed to pressure and self-censored themselves by stopping performing 'Brown Sugar' live.   Tom Jones at least isn't bowing to the PC mob, and will keep performing Delilah despite the publicity and pressure to stop him singing it. Mind you I do agree with banning sectarian or racist songs in sporting and street contexts, as that does spread violence and hatred down generations.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: Acorn4
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 04:02 AM

I reckon if I tried hard enough I could find something to be offended about in any song lyric.


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 07:42 AM

On BBC Radio 4 right now

Antisocial - Delilah and cancelling songs


Should be available to listen to on BBC sounds


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 12:51 PM

Thanks Rain Dog for posting that programme link - a fascinating discussion which covers many elements of this thread including folk murder ballads.   There was still no acknowledgment that the lyrics were actually at least part ghost written by a woman!


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GerryM
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 04:00 PM

Acorn4 wrote, "I reckon if I tried hard enough I could find something to be offended about in any song lyric."

Or, as Tom Lehrer put it some years ago, "When correctly viwed/Everything is lewd/I could tell you things about Peter Pan/And the Wizard of Oz -- there's a dirty old man."


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Subject: RE: Delilah 'Banned' by Welsh Rugby Union
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 08:49 AM

shall they now ban mystery movies and novels?


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