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English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)

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GUEST,henryp 20 Mar 24 - 07:22 PM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 20 Mar 24 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,henryp 20 Mar 24 - 05:31 PM
Joe Offer 20 Mar 24 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 20 Mar 24 - 01:34 PM
The Sandman 20 Mar 24 - 05:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 Mar 24 - 04:26 AM
Joe Offer 19 Mar 24 - 06:35 PM
Joe Offer 19 Mar 24 - 06:30 PM
Joe Offer 19 Mar 24 - 05:45 PM
The Sandman 19 Mar 24 - 05:38 PM
The Sandman 19 Mar 24 - 05:34 PM
Dave the Gnome 19 Mar 24 - 05:33 PM
Joe Offer 19 Mar 24 - 04:51 PM
Joe Offer 19 Mar 24 - 04:20 PM
The Sandman 19 Mar 24 - 03:17 PM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 19 Mar 24 - 02:32 PM
GUEST 19 Mar 24 - 12:53 PM
The Sandman 19 Mar 24 - 11:43 AM
GUEST,Archie 19 Mar 24 - 11:30 AM
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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 07:22 PM

I'm not making a judgement.

I'm just trying to answer an enquiry!

"I seem to remember a folk album from the perspective of a fetus or just generally being pro life. I think it’s English, from the revival period…"

Well I can’t get hold of that dish of glass
Though I’m all geared to cling to it fast
It’s my first and only home and my last
And I’m dying


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 06:15 PM

Vin was brave enough to share his (to me, wrong-headed) opinions. He won't have changed many minds I suppose. But I far prefer to remember his friendliness and his corset-busting humour and sense of fun. It was a privilege to know the ould bugger. That'll do me!


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 05:31 PM

Vin Garbutt released “Dish of Glass” in 1986 on The By-pass Syndrome.

He describes an "in vitro" embryo about to be destroyed in a laboratory. It is not clear - to me, at least - whether the song is totally opposed to "in vitro" fertilisation and "test tube" babies.

Well I can’t get hold of that dish of glass
Though I’m all geared to cling to it fast
It’s my first and only home and my last
And I’m dying

Full words can be found on the pro-life site https://www.lifenews.com/2017/06/08/pro-life-folk-singer-vin-garbutt-passes-away-he-gave-a-voice-to-unborn-children/


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 02:05 PM

I agree, Steve. Since I'm an active Catholic and a Democrat, I get a lot of that shit. The crap rarely comes from priests or nuns. It's usually Trumpist lay people who are the anti-abortion fanatics. And they're scary. I'm teaching two classes on Catholic Social Justice Teaching next month. I hope the Trumpists don't gang up on me for that. They think that stuff is "Communist." Wish me luck.


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 01:34 PM

The term "pro-life" is an insult to those who support women's right to choose. We are not anti-life. So-called "pro-lifers" are no more than anti-abortionists, no more, no less. That doesn't sound so good, so they prefer to insult us instead.


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 05:33 AM

no problem glad to help Archie


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 04:26 AM

As I said, Joe, pro life but not in the way of Little Innocents


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 06:35 PM

The album notes don't give the lyrics, but here are the notes for "Leslie":

    LESLIE (Just a Lone Stick of Wheat)
    An all too common tragedy these days with so many people walking the streets and wondering ‘what it’s all about’. Perhaps Leslie had so much more to offer the world than his depraved industrial society required of him.
    Like Calum More Leslie was a gentleman when sober but a stranger to all when drunk. At the age of 29 Leslie died of exposure in a derelict building.

The recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gOWwReAX8g

Can't really see how this is an anti-abortion song, but it certainly is "pro-life."


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 06:30 PM

The album notes don't give the lyrics, but here are the notes for "Lynda":
    LYNDA
    This is a song of optimism and amazing courage.
    Lynda is based on the mother of a Middlesbrough boy suffering from Spina Bifida. There are two ways we can rid this world of handicap. One is to destroy the handicap, the other is to destroy the handicapped.
    The society that the many Lyndas of this world are fighting has opted for the latter.
    I sang this song in the north of England recently and a young woman in tears said to me, ‘Don’t ever stop singing that song. I was expecting twins. They told me one of them was deformed… they took both of them…’


The recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLDlzgUSI9E

And as I said above, I think it's completely proper to express an opinion about abortion - but it's a travesty to legislate against this very personal opinion that must be made by the pregnant woman alone.


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 05:45 PM

Here in the U.S., the pro-life movement believes they can legislate abortion away (and they have come dangerously close to success), and they expect pro-life advocates to buy into the entire authoritarian conservative agenda. On top of that, they seem to feel justified about giving false information to support their agenda. I am appalled by the dishonesty of the American pro-life movement.

I'm a lifelong Catholic, and I believe that abortion is not a good thing. If my daughter wanted an abortion, I'd advise against it, and then I'd make clear that I would accept whatever decision she made. The "Little Innocents" song is more-or-less in alignment with my thinking. I do not believe I have the right to coerce a woman not to have an abortion, but I do think I have the right to believe whether it's good or bad. That a woman's right to make that decision. I can speak my opinion, but that's her decision. As a Planned Parenthood physician once told me, an abortion is never a cause for celebration. But sometimes, it's the only reasonable choice.

And so I call myself a "pro-life, pro-choice Catholic." And everybody hates me for that. I also call myself a "radical moderate," and people hate that, too. But that's who I am.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 05:38 PM

before my post is deleted, Vin was entitled to his view and i am entitled to mine, its called freedom of speech


    Your post will not be deleted, and you know it. But you like to play the martyr.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 05:34 PM

Polemic.
how about the rights of women to make their own choices ,do they need a Man to preach at them


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Subject: RE: English pro-life album: Little Innocents (Garbutt)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 05:33 PM

Fear of imperfection/Lynda and Leslie are both pro life, Joe, though not in the same way as Little Innocents.


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Subject: ADD: Little Innocents (Vin Garbutt)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 04:51 PM

LITTLE INNOCENTS (A Civil Rights Song)
(Vin Garbutt)

In Roman days the law outlawed compassion
A word so rarely heard now with the unborn people’s plight,
Misguided ways set hearts ablaze with passion,
And Romans roared as lions gnawed their problems out of sight.
And again not quite so long ago it happened,
The Jewish Race were faced with an extermination plot,
Men swore and slammed the oven door behind them,
‘We’ve the right to prove we’ve the right to choose who’s human and who’s not.’

An unfamiliar freedom now belongs to common man,
It’s hard for us to say ‘No thanks’, we’re told, ‘You can, you can’.
We’ve even won the right that evil rich men always had,
It seems true forbidden fruit is priceless even when it’s bad.
So let’s scrutinise the package deals we’re offered,
Like anti-nuclear, save the whale, abortion on demand,
We may feel we’re so liberal and enlightened,
Like him who to defend his rights did napalm Vietnam.

One time when starving children stole, the law cut off a hand,
In desperation they’d ignore the strict laws of the land.
Oh, you wouldn’t change the law to make it legal for to steal,
No, you’d change the sensibilities of folk to make them feel.
But now those sensibilities are numbing once again,
Society has changed the law but not the hearts of men,
Yet only love and care can ease a troubled mother’s strife,
In a world that bids a doctor use a back street butcher’s knife.

Oh, the unborn child might be ill-treated, he might become a thief,
I’m told he might grow up unloved, might suffer untold grief,
Ah, but I might die of cancer in, say, ten or twenty years,
Would their misguided compassion kill me now to ease my fears?
No, they wouldn’t, ‘cos they’ve met me and society says no,
But the unborn child we’ve never met, his friendships never grown.
Oh, why must we at the friends we’ve never met point nuclear shells?
Oh, destroy the unmet friend, my friends, and we destroy ourselves.
Sure, there’s ifs and buts and possibles but they’re just not good enough,
With lives at stake you just can’t say smooth waters might turn rough.
Such ill-advice turns hearts to ice to freeze a poor girl’s hope,
We must change the world that would kill her child and steal her will to cope.
Oh, I know I’m just a man, I cannot share that mother’s fate,
And though I can’t apologise for Mother Nature’s own dictate,
I have to do my bit, I cannot bear those fascist views,
And I’ll defend the baby boy or baby girl whose death they’d choose.

When Martin Luther King said to the world, ‘I have a dream’,
That ignorance and prejudice would never more be seen,
The world stood up in praise but too few people understood
That colour, creed nor size can change the crimson of your blood.
Still they tell me we’ve the right to remain selfish if we please,
They ask me to respect that point of view and not be blind,
But I see the rights they claim have slaughtered countless Luther Kings,
And in Belfast shot a bullet in an unborn baby’s spine.
Ah, then, they say a foetus isn’t quite a baby,
But a baby isn’t quite a ten-year-old, it’s my belief,
And an adolescent isn’t quite a grown man,
But you just can’t choose to kill a man no matter what relief.
Without the right to life you couldn’t grow to make a choice,
Before you’re born you haven’t got a voice,
And innocents are silenced by good folk who live a lie,
With the might to prove they’ve the right to choose
who’ll live and who will die.
When Hitler changed the word from ‘kill’ to ‘exterminate’ the Jews,
The word was changed but it meant the same,
ANOTHER’S RIGHT TO CHOOSE.

CHORUS
Oh, cruel world, you try to make a beast of honest men,
You hand out rosy spectacles and then
You slaughter little innocents whose own lives can’t defend,
If you’d the right to choose would you do it to Jesus again?
(after last chorus:)
If you’d the right to choose would you end Luther King once again?
If you’d the right to choose would you push Steve Biko again?
If you’d the right to choose would you terminate Jesus again?
Like King Herod of old are we looking for Jesus again?

Source: https://www.topicrecords.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/TSDL428.pdf

Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8r1LGmTsL4


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Subject: track listing: Little Innocents (Vin Garbutt)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 04:20 PM

Interesting. Here's a link to Vin Garbutt's Little Innocents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8r1LGmTsL4.

Apparently, the ten minute "Little Innocents" recording is only one cut on the album. Here's the track listing. The rest of the songs don't appear to be pro-life.
  1. The Royal Blackbird
  2. The Fear Of Imperfection/Lynda (Written-By – Vin Garbutt)
  3. Calum More (Written-By – Alan Mitchel)
  4. The Coalman (Written-By – Vin Garbutt)
  5. Leslie (Written-By – Vin Garbutt)
  6. Dormanstown Jimmy (Written-By – Vin Garbutt)
  7. If (Written-By – Rudyard Kipling)
  8. Blue Sunset (Written-By – Graeme Miles)
  9. Little Innocents (Written-By – Vin Garbutt)

Album notes & lyrics: https://www.topicrecords.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/TSDL428.pdf


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Subject: RE: English folk pro - life album
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 03:17 PM

Hi Steve, outside the internet and certain forums, people show tolerance for views they might disagree with.
As you say Vin was a charming man, not a control freak, or a power maniac, he was extremely funny and is missed by many.
hope you are keeping well and look after yourself, best vwishes


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Subject: RE: English folk pro - life album
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 02:32 PM

I doubt whether Vin changed as many people's minds as the people he irritated with his "pro-life" song. We had him at our folk club (long gone, sadly) at least half a dozen times and he was just about the most personable and amusing bugger on the planet. He did his song, as he was entitled to, but folk club audiences don't necessarily care for being beaten around the head with someone's strong and possibly controversial views (Dick Gaughan, here's looking at ya, baby!). We just ummed and ahhed here in Bude but I heard that the song got him into hot water at some venues. But when I think of Vin I think of a cheery, upbeat, friendly and very funny man.


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Subject: RE: English folk pro - life album
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 12:53 PM

Thanks mr sandman

Exactly right. This website is unbelievable. What a strange album! “Little innocents”


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Subject: RE: English folk pro - life album
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 11:43 AM

vin garbutt?


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Subject: English folk pro - life album
From: GUEST,Archie
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 11:30 AM

Hi all,

I seem to remember a folk album from the perspective of a fetus or just generally being pro life. I think it’s English, from the revival period…

Thanks


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