BS: Acoustic vs. Electric

Subject: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Froodo
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 04:53 PM

Hey all you guitar players out there, what are your thoughts on this Acoustic vs. Electric debate? Which do you prefer and why?

Me? Well, lately I've been 100% acoustic. A friend of mine who was really into WWII planes (loved the prop planes) once said, "Jets are for kids." I like to modify that a bit to, "Electric guitars are for kids."

Froodo...

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: MMario
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:01 PM

I think they both have their places. But what I would like is for the amplification to be turned down.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:04 PM

I think both have their place -- the electric guitar is the representative voice of a whole genre of music and backup. I did a Mudcat song parodying Dylan's very electric Highway 16 and the whole tenor of the song was built around the electric sound, so I used an electric. I don't own one myself so I borrowed Barky's!

But I would say for 90% of my preferred songs an acoustic setup is by far preferable.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:05 PM

I hate pick-ups!! Sometimes I have to use them.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Mbo
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:09 PM

I like acoustic and electric equally. They each have their own special qualities, which is a nice thing. When the situation warrants either electric or acoustic, use it to it's fullest. My, I'm acoustic...only because I'm too cheap to go out and buy an electric. Actually, I think an acoustic band with and electric guitar thrown in really makes a neat contrast. Try it today....unless you're CHICKEN! **BG**

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Bert
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:13 PM

Barky's got an electric guitar! Don't worry Amos, she'll grow out of it. ;-)

Mbo, Mbo, You're just sucking up to Barky again.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:15 PM

Depends on the pickup, don't it Rick... Or rather on how much scratch one is willing to drop on one... Don Ross has a wonderfull sound using (last I hear) a Fishman Dual system of magnetic pickup and Mic, balanced just so....
There's lotsa good electrionics out there these days... but most of the low to mid range stuff sounds exactily that... low to mid range!! LOL!!

{~`

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Mbo
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:16 PM

Ha ha! Girls with guitars RULE!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: MK
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:21 PM

Agreed they both have their uses.

I prefer acoustic. Electrics, especially maple necked ones like Tellies and Strats, can make your fingers awfully lazy and can undermine all the strength one might have spent years building up in ones fretting hand.

If I switched over now, to electric, in a short matter of time, I fear it would destroy my acoustic chops...and the styles I play right now are more suited to acoustic.

(I've always thought fingerpicking sounded ''silly'' on electrics....but I guess there are exceptions..I mean Chet Atkins doesn't sound silly now does he?)    8-)

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Kim C
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:27 PM

Well, the Mister and I play mostly 19th century music (we're living history reenactors) so we almost always go without amplification because is isn't authentic to the time period. Not a problem because I have a big voice - although a time or two I really wished for a microphone. I guess my answer is, I prefer to play acoustic, but I like listening to just about everything.

Here's one thing I don't understand, tho.... I watched an "unplugged" concert on PBS one night, and even though the band was playing acoustic instruments, they were plugged in! Wuzzupwiddat?

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Froodo
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:30 PM

I must agree with those of you who don't like the sound of "plugged-in" acoustics. Mics sound sooooooooo much better.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: MK
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:49 PM

Agreed Froodo.....here's a remarkable little story about one of my acoustic instruments, that surprised me for all the WRONG reasons.

I was working on a jazz/swing recording of an old standard, and wanted to put an archtop sounding guitar part on, for comping....and was toying with the idea of going out and purchasing, renting or borrowing an archtop....

I have a custom D-42, which I've had for about a year and a half...and when I ordered it from Martin (for reasons still un-beknownst to me) I had Martin install a Fishman Goldine under-the-saddle pickup, which I had never used or bothered to check out.

On a lark and a whim, I popped a battery into it, and instead of mic-ing it, took a feed from the pickup directly into the board...The result, a sound that totally mimicked an jazz archtop sound.

Ironically the pickup absolutely stinks for yielding any kind of a true acoustic sound (and if I was on stage with this instrument I use an external mic....but now, whenever I need a jazz guitar type of sound, I just run an out from the pickup on this instrument to get that specific sound. Go figure.    8-)

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: MK
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 05:55 PM

..sorry...it was a Martin Thinline Gold Plus pickup....but who gives a rat's ass?     8-)

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Froodo
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 06:15 PM

I have Fishman in my Martin, and while it's a decent pickup, it's just not possible to get that warm tone with out a mic. There are some cool tones to be made with a mic & pickup combo.

I'll keep that archtop trick in my bag!

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 06:22 PM

I have to admit that I never cared much for the Martin guitar--BUT--I have had a number of occasions to play tunes that required Jazz-style closed position chord accopaniments on a friends instrument--you get a surprisingly sharp, clean sound, both rhythm and lead--

Personally, I like electrics, but tend to play a miked acoustic(unless I am playing with a drummer)--more me, I guess--

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 06:25 PM

Stop and consider--nobody ever died in the acoustic chair!

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 06:30 PM

I've always viewed solid electric guitars as very different instruents and find it almost impossible to play an electric (seems to require a different technique) whereas I just struggle with an accoustic. I do think that they both have there uses.

I have mixed feelings about the use of pickups in accoustics. On one hand, some of the electronics used seem very effective. On the other hand, I bought my Fylde because of it's beautiful accoustic tone - surely any pick up is going to loose some of that.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Áine
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 06:42 PM

Doesn't it really depend on the sound that you're going for? For heart I go with my Ventura or my flamenco, for brightness I use the Takamine or the Washburn. It depends on the mood of the song and how I want it to effect the listener. Same goes for percussion -- depending on the song, I'll grab anything that makes the sound I want, including empty coffee cans or cereal boxes.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: jeffp
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 07:07 PM

I play both, but different music on each. I play in a rock and roll band on a 1972 Rickenbacker and at home and with friends I play my '67 Epiphone or 80-something Guild. I agree that electric and acoustic require different technique. Also, a well-set-up electric will not give you as good a set of callouses as an acoustic. Different strokes for different folks and different tools for different jobs. My $.02 worth.

jeffp

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Froodo
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 07:40 PM

Aine brings up an intersting point with the percussion thing. I don't see too many drummers playing electric kits these days...all acoustic. And, I've never seen electric coffee cans.

Long live acoustic instruments!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: kendall
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 07:57 PM

Couldn't have said it better myself Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Caitrin
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 10:00 PM

I like both. I think there's been some beautiful work done on both types. I wouldn't even try to choose. I prefer to play my dad's Alvarez, but there's a lot of electric rock that I love to listen to.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: ddw
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 11:48 PM

To me, the difference between an electric guitar and an acoustic is comparable to the difference between an organ and a piano. I've only owned one electric guitar in my life — for a total of about four hours before I sold it — but I've played quite a few, briefly each time. I just don't like them. Don't like the feel or the sound. The closest I'll come is plugged-in acoustics, which I also don't like, but will tolerate because so few people these days seem to know how to mike an acoustic without creating feedback or shoving it in so close to the sound hole it gets in the way. I have Thinline pickups in two guitars and use an external Fishman preamp and get pretty crisp sound out of the combo. I've asked other people to play them so I could listen from the audience and have been by-and-large pleased with what I've heard. But I still prefer just plain ol' acoustic....

My two cents....

david

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: BlueJay
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 12:37 AM

I play mostly acoustic guitar, but I also have an electric. Several people have mentioned they are not really happy withmost pick-ups, and use mikes instead. There's a new pick-up out, by a start-up company called Pick-Up The World, and I have one of their model 30's on my six string. It really sounds much more natural than any pick-up I've ever used. And they seem to have unlimited applications: they've been used on upright basses, cellos, mandolins and hammered dulcimers with much success, as well as drums. They basically stick on like a band-aid, so they can be mounted internally or externally. For more info: click here. This is also an experiment, as I've never tried the "Blue Clicky Thing" before. I think I got good instruction from Joe Offer's HTML instructions, but when I pasted it here, you can still see all the HREF's and

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: BlueJay
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 12:54 AM

Ha! It worked. Except it is purple, not blue. Back to the subject at hand: I have a really nice G&L electric, but I really prefer my Guild 6 and 12 strings. I just can't seem to get used to the feel of an electric, and having played unamplified most of my life, I'm still fumbling, trying to find an electric sound that I like. I know electric players to whom this is instinctive. I think that Jerry Garcia was one, (of probably many), gutarists to have mastered both. I love his electric stuff, (at least some of it), with the Dead, and his acoustic playing with David Grisman is top notch, IMHO

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: john c
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 02:09 AM

As for me, Im a through and through acoustic player. But after a crap day at work, or after another argument with the kids, or after paying good money to see my football team get beat again, there is nothing in the world to compare with plugging in the old imitation Strat and getting torn into some good old Chuck Berry licks.Loud. Best therapy there is!!
John

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Hyperabid
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 07:15 AM

Properly aplifies electro acoustic or miked acoustic with sensitive digital FX and solid state amplification can be the most soulful sound I've heard...

But then again the grunting machine-gun stacatto of highly overdriven electric guitar on tracks like Creep by Radiohead can be equally overwhelming... (If however more in the "I wanna be sixteen again and by the way what's wrong with stealing cars" emotion section)

Both have their place - I wouldn't be without either...

Hyp

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Mbo
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 08:12 AM

"Creep" By Radiohead...thanks for mentioning it, Hyp. I LOVE Radiohead...Creep for me has more pent up energy and power in it than a lot of songs I've heard.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 08:46 AM

I love them both, play them both (in performance and at home), and don't feel a need to choose one or the other. I have to agree with some of the other folks who have posted to this thread -- they are completely different instruments, and require different technique. If you are an acoustic player, you can't just pick up an electric in passing and instantly expect to be able to make it sound good; it takes time, and practice, just like any other instrument.

As far as acoustic pickups, they've come a long way in recent years, but I've never heard one that really gives an accurate reproduction of the acoustic sound of the instrument. I don't much care for the under-saddle piezo-electric pickups (Fashman Matrix and the like), although they are the industry standard for now, and they're a whole lot better than they used to be. My current favorite is the Fishman Rare Earth magnetic soundhole pickup (double-coil) with the attached internal condenser mike and blend control (set at about 80 per cent pickup, 20 per cent mike). I run it through a Sans Amp acoustic DI, with the 1/4 inch out going to an on-stage monitor amp, and the XLR out going to the board. Putting a microphone in front of the guitar can give you a truer acoustic tone, but it is very dependent on positioning (you can't do this if you move while you play, and trying to sing, play lead, and stand completely still is more than I can comfortably handle). Besides, it really isn't an option anyway when the rest of the band is cranked.

But when we're playing rock and roll or Clapton-style blues, nothing beats my solid-body PRS through a tube combo amp. Like a said, it's a different beast, and when that's what the music calls for, that's what you need.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Fortunato
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 09:37 AM

I use: '97 American Standard Telecaster & '65 Fender Vibrolux with the band. '59 Gibson J45 on the porch with my lady and friends. The attack on the two instruments is very different, challenging, but more than worthwhile. Any on you 'acoustic only' folks ever heard Merle Travis? If not, you might enjoy doing so. The two instruments can infuse each other with challenging possibilities if you let them. I'm still struggling to do so. The learning curve is endless, and who would want anything else? Cheers, Fortunato

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: JedMarum
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 11:27 AM

I don't play an electric guitar these days (but I like them). I am an acoustic guitar player and I love the sound of my acoustic ... but as a performer, I understand that (frequently) mics are the enemy on stage - so I use a pick-up in my guitar. I do believe the pick up sounds great (a Fischman set-up) but I understand that I loose some of the finer qualities of acoustic guitar playing. Still it is a trade off I find acceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Hyperabid
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 11:51 AM

Ah Mbo!

You have already shown yourself to be a raconteur of top music m8!

Hyp

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 12:28 PM

Whistlestop--Boy you had me fooled--somehow I just didn't picture you playing Clapton licks on a PRS through a tube amp!!!

It is really rough to get anything like the unamplified sound of an acoustic guitar in an performance situation---

I think a lot of the reason that concert acts tend to used the dreaded "Ovation" option is that even though its actual sound is pathetic compared to the vintage and custom acoustics that we like to hear--the highs and lows are all there when it is amplified, and nothing gets swallowed up--so it is more predictable in any acoustic environment--

I play a lot of finger picking stuff--and have even resorted to using a solid body electric in performance situations because, even though the sound quality was different, it was much cleaner and more full than I could get with an acoutic, and it was much closer to plug and play--Only thing is that some people don't like the idea at all--

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 02:04 PM

Most people never realize that there is an almost constant hum behind the "silence" in almost any urban area (just like there is almost always some ambient light in the "darkness"). It's that hum-m-m-m-m-m that the electric guitar flourishes within; electrics, unlike acoustics can cancel out that maddening drone. To really appreciate a classic acoustic instrument you need true silence - room for the guitar's sound to fill. Try playing an old Martin on the back porch of a cabin on a lake in the woods, when the only sounds you compete with are those inherent in nature, and you'll know what I mean. That's when you regret the trade offs that you make when you choose to live so close to "what's happening".

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 02:49 PM

Don't give me that silence of nature stuff--I lived out amongst the deer, the foxes, the ocassional bears and wild turkeys--I can guarantee that the locusts, cicadas, crikets, etc make so much din on a summer night that you have to go inside and shut the doors and windows to hear your instrument--

And haven't you ever sat on the stoop and played along with the rhythm of the city--"the rattle of the subway trains, the murmur of the taxis"?

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 02:52 PM

Have to agree, Bartholomew -- an old Martin on the back porch of a cabin on a lake in the woods sounds pretty much like heaven to me. Now, if only I could make a living doing that...

M.Ted, I'm one of those "jack of all trades, master of none" types. The good thing is, when I go too far out on a limb playing the electric blues, I can look people in the eye and say "you know, I'm really an acoustic player..."

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 03:29 PM

Good trick--

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Easy Rider
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 03:54 PM

There have been some GREAT electric guitarists, Clapton, Garcia, Santana, Etc., but it takes a lot more work and equipment to make an electric guitar sound good. With an acoustic guitar, it's a lot simpler. It's just your fingers and the guitar.

I like it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: MK
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 04:10 PM

Not sure I entirely agree with you Easy Rider. You said "but it takes a lot more work and equipment to make an electric guitar sound good. With an acoustic guitar, it's a lot simpler. It's just your fingers and the guitar."

Perhaps clarification is needed on this point.

To my way of thinking, it requires much more strength (and work) with the fretting hand, to get a good sound out of an acoustic (assuming one is doing more than just strumming a few chords ---I'm talking more about fingerpicking and flatpicking), whereas any electric I've ever played had ridiculously light strings on it, very low action, and required almost a feather light touch to barre or play well...anything on it, making the process relatively effortless. You also don't have to play particulary clean on an electric to get a decent sound, thanks to pickup, effects pedals and amplifier characteristics.

Granted electric especially played in the styles of the artists you mentioned, is an ENTIRELY different approach and to me, is a completely separate and unique instrument apart from a steel string acoustic. I'd love to be able to play electric blues and jazz but I fear doing so, and the ensuing amount of practise time, would somehow be detrimental to my acoustic playing.

Every pure electric player/friend I've known, has had a difficult time getting a good sound out of an acoustic...at least from what I have personally seen and heard.

I liked the analogy comparing an acoustic piano to an organ...in the same way one compares an electric to an acoustic.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Grab
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 08:35 AM

One thing no-one's picked up on is that electrics (or plugged-in acoustics) can be _harder_ to play. First time I plugged in, I was amazed how much assorted crap came through the speaker! On an acoustic, if you brush a string by accident on the way through, or if you happen to twing it a little with your left hand when you take your finger off, then you just don't notice - the loudness of the other strings hides it. But plugged in you notice all those glitches.

Maybe "harder" isn't the word - maybe it'd be better to call it "showing up flaws in your technique". Whatever, it's worth considering.

And on the pick-up side, there's distinct advantages in not losing the guitar sound every time you shuffle in your seat, or lean on the other foot! Anyone know if the miniature microphones they use on violins can also be used on guitars?

Grab.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 08:56 AM

Yes Grab, the miniature microphones can be used on guitar as well, and some people have been doing this for years. Audio-Technica came out with a small bracket maybe 20 years ago that slides onto the guitar top at the soundhole and positions a small condenser mike close to ths strings (kind of like the tie-clip that holds the lavalier mikes used by sportscasters, etc. -- but without the strong spring and "teeth" that would damage the instrument's top). The sound is very dependent on positioning and direction (millimeters make a difference), and feedback is still an issue, but it's definitely an option that can yield a very musical tone. I think the bottom line is that none of these options is perfect, none exactly duplicates the acoustic sound of the instrument, but all are worth exploring. My favorite local music shop (The Music Emporium in Lexington, Massachusetts, USA) has test instruments set up with a variety of their "most favored" pickup options, so you can compare and contrast -- which really allows you to identify what it is you like and don't like about each of the available options.

As for what is "harder" or "easier," there are a lot more factors at play here than how much resistance is under your fingers when using acoustic vs. electric strings. It comes down to touch, what you're trying to play, and how familiar you are with how the various components work together. On an acoustic guitar, you have fewer ancillary pieces of gear, but you still need to adjust your touch to get the sound projection and tonal nuances you're after. Same with electric -- for all the outboard sound-processing stuff people employ, it still comes down to conveying what's in your heart and soul by moving your fingers around on the strings. The best gear in the world won't make up for lousy technique.

I've never known an exclusively acoustic guitar player to be able to pick up an electric guitar and instantly make it sound good, nor have I known an exclusively electric player to be able to do this with an acoustic. They're different instruments, and each offers its own challenges and rewards -- all it takes is time and patience.

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Scotsbard
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 02:49 PM

I've found that plugging the acoustic pickup into an electric amp, setting the EQ completely flat and turning off all the effects is a good way clean up technique. All of the sloppy frettings and squeaks stick out like a sore thumb, and when they sound good through the amp, the pure acoustic performance usually sounds very clean.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Acoustic vs. Electric
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 06:08 PM

Actually, if you plug a GOOD acoustic with a GOOD pick-up into a GOOD equalizer, and you go to the trouble of finding exactly where the settings need to be, it is quite possible to get a GREAT amplified acoustic sound, without the noise and feed-back of microphones...it just takes doing your homework!

I use the Baggs Para-coustic DI/EQ, but there are other good brands, too...check out MXR, Boss and Alesis