Subject: Lyr Add: CREMATION OF SAM MCGEE (Robert Service) From: GUEST,RB Date: 05 Oct 06 - 02:37 AM Here's a creepy one I haven't noticed on the list yet, by Robert Service. The great California singer Mary McCaslin recorded this back in the seventies. THE CREMATION OF SAM MCGEE There are strange things done in the midnight sun By the men who moil for gold; The Arctic trails have their secret tales That would make your blood run cold; The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, But the queerest they ever did see Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge I cremated Sam McGee. Now Sam McGee was from Tennessee, Where the cotton blooms and blows. Why he left his home in the South to roam 'Round the Pole, God only knows. He was always cold, but the land of gold Seemed to hold him like a spell; Though he'd often say in his homely way That he'd "sooner live in hell". On a Christmas Day we were mushing our way Over the Dawson trail. Talk of your cold! Through the parka's fold It stabbed like a driven nail. If our eyes we'd close, then the lashes froze Till sometimes we couldn't see; It wasn't much fun, but the only one To whimper was Sam McGee. And that very night, as we lay packed tight In our robes beneath the snow, And the dogs were fed, and the stars o'erhead Were dancing heel and toe, He turned to me, and "Cap," says he, "I'll cash in this trip, I guess; And if I do, I'm asking that you Won’t refuse my last request." Well, he seemed so low that I couldn't say no; Then he says with a sort of moan: "It's the cursed cold, and it's got right hold Till I'm chilled clean through to the bone. Yet 'tain't being dead -- it's my awful dread Of the icy grave that pains; So I want you to swear that, foul or fair, You’ll cremate my last remains." A pal's last need is a thing to heed, So I swore I would not fail; And we started on at the streak of dawn; But God! he looked ghastly pale. He crouched on the sleigh, and he raved all day Of his home in Tennessee; And before nightfall a corpse was all That was left of Sam McGee. There wasn't a breath in that land of death, And I hurried, horror-driven, With a corpse half hid that I couldn't get rid, Because of a promise given; It was lashed to the sleigh, and it seemed to say: "You may tax your brawn and brains, But you promised true, and it's up to you To cremate those last remains." Now a promise made is a debt unpaid, And the trail has its own stern code. In the days to come, though my lips were dumb, In my heart how I cursed that load. In the long, long night, by the lone firelight, While the huskies, round in a ring, Howled out their woes to the homeless snows -- O God! How I loathed the thing. And every day that quiet clay Seemed to heavy and heavier grow; And on I went, though the dogs were spent And the grub was getting low; The trail was bad, and I felt half mad, But I swore I would not give in; And I'd often sing to the hateful thing, And it hearkened with a grin. Till I came to the marge of Lake Lebarge, And a derelict there lay; It was jammed in the ice, but I saw in a trice It was called the "Alice May". And I looked at it, and I thought a bit, And I looked at my frozen chum; Then "Here," said I, with a sudden cry, "Is my cre-ma-tor-eum." Some planks I tore from the cabin floor, And I lit the boiler fire; Some coal I found that was lying around, And I heaped the fuel higher; The flames just soared, and the furnace roared -- Such a blaze you seldom see; And I burrowed a hole in the glowing coal, And I stuffed in Sam McGee. Then I made a hike, for I didn't like To hear him sizzle so; And the heavens scowled, and the huskies howled, And the wind began to blow. It was icy cold, but the hot sweat rolled Down my cheeks, and I don't know why; And the greasy smoke in an inky cloak Went streaking down the sky. I do not know how long in the snow I wrestled with grisly fear; But the stars came out and they danced about Ere again I ventured near; I was sick with dread, but I bravely said: "I'll just take a peep inside. I guess he's cooked, and it's time I looked"; . . . Then the door I opened wide. And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, In the heart of the furnace roar; And he wore a smile you could see a mile, And he said: "Please close that door. It's fine in here, but I greatly fear You’ll let in the cold and storm -- Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, It’s the first time I've been warm." There are strange things done in the midnight sun By the men who moil for gold; The Arctic trails have their secret tales That would make your blood run cold; The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, But the queerest they ever did see Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge I cremated Sam McGee. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST,mg Date: 04 Oct 06 - 01:03 PM I thought I mentioned this in this threaed before but maybe another thread. Kate Long of Washington State. Puyallup??? wrote this absolutely wonderful song about a disfigured child who only felt normal on Halloween and joined in the activities and then became a recluse for the rest of the year. It was very moving and very subtle so you don't get it till the end. She has a CD out. mg |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Cats Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:45 PM A couple of years ago on 31st October, Jon, Mike O'Connor and I did an evening for some people from the USA who were over in Cornwall looking for their spiritual roots. We did an evening for them in a hotel overlooking the sea at Tintagel. The weather outside was seriously rough and the sea was crashing on the rocks just outside the window, gales blowing in... get the picture? We did a lot of local folklore ranging from a Celtic blessing with candles being lit to open the evening, I told the story of Mr Fox's Wedding and as well as Tam Lin [only 42 verses of it] we did Reynardine and in one part just sang the vowel sounds to get a very spooky effect!! Very spooky. This year Mike and I are playing in Bodmin at the Local History Society. I am doing the true story of Joan Wytte, the witch from Bodmin who ended up as an exhibit in the Museum of Witchcraft and Magic in Boscastle [if you've seen the skeleton, you'll know who I mean. Mike has written the music for it and has written a song about her called Spirit in the Storm. If you're anywhere around the area come along as it will be a very poignant evening. If you want to sing the songs, please do. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: The Sandman Date: 03 Oct 06 - 12:32 PM the annual general meeting of the ghosts by john m garrett is good.it used to be available in a book called Jims yolk songs, from the EFDSS. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Scoville Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:41 PM I was just thinking "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" might qualify, even though it's not folk. Somewhere I've got a Bob Beers recording of "The Black-Haired Lass" that features a ghost, too. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:03 AM Help! We just continued our 6-year tradition and visited Dorney Park (in Allentown PA) on the first Sunday of October. The park theme, of course, is Halloween. Every year now, I hear the same soundtrack played on the park's loudspeakers - and there are a few songs that I just HAVE to have a recording of! I (sort of) know the names of two of the songs: "The Great Escape from the Planet of the Apes" and "Moonlight Shadow". Another is by "The Cure", while another is an instrumental with a high, tinkling piano in some oddball time signature. I know that this description is fuzzy, but if anybody can help me find recordings of these songs (without asking the Park), please let me know at zteam@dejazzd.com! Bob Zambanini |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Jim Dixon Date: 18 Jan 02 - 02:26 PM And to make things even more confusing, in chapter XXXII of Bede's Ecclesiastical History, Gregory seems to contradict himself. He instructs King Ethelbert to "overthrow the structures of the temples"! To me that sounds like "tear them down." |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Murray MacLeod Date: 18 Jan 02 - 02:10 PM You sometimes confuse me as well, Jim ..... Murray |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Jim Dixon Date: 18 Jan 02 - 02:03 PM Joe Offer: On 28-Sep-01, you asked "Can anybody supply leads to historical documents that prove the Christian feasts were established to counteract pagan celebrations held on the same dates?" This doesn't exactly prove the statement you were questioning, but it does sort of validate the underlying philosophy. In Chapter XXX of Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation, Book I, Bede quotes a letter from Pope Gregory I to Abbot Mellitus, A. D. 601. In it, Mellitus is instructed to carry a message to Augustine, Bishop of Canterbury*, saying that Augustine is to destroy only idols, and not the temples of the idols, but rather to convert the temples into churches. "For there is no doubt that it is impossible to efface everything at once from their obdurate minds; because he who endeavours to ascend to the highest place, rises by degrees or steps, and not by leaps." The letter doesn't say anything about the dates of festivals, but I think the letter is probably the source of the belief that pagan festivals were converted to Christian festivals in the same way that pagan temples were converted to Christian churches. I don't blame you for being skeptical about this belief. You are not alone. The Catholic Encyclopedia article on Christmas, which appears to be carefully researched and documented, is inconclusive about the origin of the date Dec. 25. I am also skeptical about the theory that Dec. 25 was chosen to coincide with the winter solstice. I don't think either the people who built Stonehenge or the Christians who proselytized them were such poor astronomers as to be as much as 3 days off in their calculations. *By the way, until I researched this topic myself, I never realized that Augustine of Canterbury and Augustine of Hippo were two different people! I had always confused them! |
Subject: Lyr Add: HALLOWEEN NIGHT SONG (Dahlov Ipcar) From: GUEST,Calico Date: 03 Nov 01 - 05:13 AM In a "cat hymn" thread, Charley Noble recently posted this song, which he says his mother sent him. HALLOWEEN NIGHT SONG (Words by Dahlov Ipcar © 2001; No tune)
My black cat cried to go out last night
A great orange moon hung there above
My black cat clawed and scratched the door
But when I opened the door he ran
So now I know that my black cat
If I were a witch on Halloween,
With my black cat I'd take my flight |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: SDShad Date: 31 Oct 01 - 03:54 PM Quick refresh for anyone putting together a last-minute Halloween playlist, and a posting of my complete playlist for this year (many repeats from last year, but oh well). I've got many new ideas from this thread to hunt down for next year's list, however..... Shad's 2001 Halloween Mix:
Jim Stafford - Swamp Witch |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST,Ghoulfiend Date: 26 Oct 01 - 10:34 PM Refreshing this, since folks will be looking for Halloween playlists. |
Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: BRINGING MARY HOME (John Duffey)^^^ From: Mark Clark Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:03 PM Walking Eagle and Dani mentioned John Duffey's great song “Bringing Mary Home” so I thought I'd post it here for collection later. - Mark
BRINGING MARY HOMEBy John Duffey
I was driving down a lonely road one dark and stormy night, (D,C,G)
She must have been so frightened all alone there in the night,
I pulled into the driveway where she told me to go,
A light shone from the porch, someone opened up the door,
But thirteen years ago tonight in a wreck just down the road, |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Barracuda d'Morte Date: 10 Oct 01 - 10:07 PM How about some nautical Halloween songs?
The Derelict (15 Men on a Dead Man's chest, Yo ho ho, and a bottle of rum) Well, you get the idea..... Also, someone early in this thread said "rickety tickety tin" and I think they meant "The Irish Ballad" by Tom Lehrer (About a maid I'll sing a song) |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Rory B Date: 10 Oct 01 - 05:07 PM I love the way Audience did that song (I Put a Spell on You) very awesome!! -Rory- |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Genie Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:49 PM Ah, guest! It worked! Your entry has been magically clickified! |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Genie Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:47 PM Abracadabra! |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:29 AM http://www.electricscotland.com/burns/halloween.html |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: BluesMojo Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:24 AM I've seen I Put A Spell On You posted several times as a CCR/John Fogerty Song, but I believe Screamin' Jay Hawkins was the one that wrote and did the definitive version of that song. I could be wrong though, it wouldn't be an earth-shattering occurrence :) |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Mr Red Date: 09 Oct 01 - 06:32 PM lyrics to a Halloween song, I hope the blickie works - IF YOU WANT TO FIND THE WARLOCK history to the song - John Duncan (JD) sidled up to me one club night at the Somers FC and showed me a song - a back of the envelope, half finished, but thouroughly meritorious jobbie. One which I could quite easily finish off for him, couldn't I? Hmmmm. Well, of course it can be done but on any given night the probability is low. I begged to be excused. However, at this juncture it dawned on me that I had no repertoire to do justice to the witching eve. So in that context I did in fact move into high gear and (as if by magic) those words came. (Casting a spell?) I sang it myself one hour later. Sorry John. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Mr Red Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:34 PM I wrote a parody of "The Old Barbed Wire" "If You Want to Find the Warlock" It took me about 30 minutes at the Folk Club. This included a lot of sing-along chorus songs as well so it is dead easy to learn. I will post as soon as I get a moment. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST,JD Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:27 AM Put a fork in this thread. It's done. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Genie Date: 08 Oct 01 - 01:56 PM This campfire thread has some scary, ghostly songs and stories, too. |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE PHANTOM SHIP (Julia Lane) From: Julia Date: 07 Oct 01 - 09:14 PM DUH! I actually wrote a supernatural song and recorded it on my album "Song of the Sea" My son came home with the story after visiting with some old fishermen near our home (in Maine)- this ship supposedly sails John's Bay on the full of the moon. Here it is for anyone interested THE PHANTOM SHIP © 1995 JULIA LANE BMI When you went down to the shore last night what did you see? Did you see a lofty ship sailing fast and free? Sail away, sail away, sailing fast and free Sail away, sail away, across the moonlit sea When I went down to the shore last night a ship I saw And the moon was like a shining sail there in the rigging tall Shine away, shine away, there in the rigging tall Shine away, shine away, a light to guide them all And there upon that moonlit ship did you see a man Who stood so tall upon the deck with sailors at command Standing tall, standing tall, with sailors at command Standing tall, standing tall so strong of voice and hand Alas I saw no captain brave standing tall and true Indeed I saw not a soul on board, neither captain or crew Not a soul, not a soul did man the ship as she flew Not a soul, not a soul, and the wind in the rigging blew When you went down to the shore last night what did you see? Did you see a lofty ship sailing fast and free? Sail away, sail away, sailing fast and free Sail away, sail away, across the moonlit sea Reminds me of an old poem called "The Dash" about a similar ship that shows up when a past crew member dies to take them away. Oughta make a song out of that one too |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Julia Date: 07 Oct 01 - 08:49 PM Oh yes and "Tom of Bedlam" and "Lowlands"... |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Julia Date: 07 Oct 01 - 08:38 PM How about "The Unquiet Grave", "Wife of Usher's Well", "Alabama John Cherokee" "Alison Gross" and "On Ilkla Moor Baht Hat" |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: DMcG Date: 07 Oct 01 - 06:22 AM This is the first timeI've read this thread, so this thread so I've a long of catching up to do .... Greyeyes said "Guy Fawkes night is not a big event in the calendar of English Catholics." I can see why, but in my English Catholic family it always was a big event. There are certainly places like Lewes where the anti-catholic aspects can be a major feature, but in the areas I came from the event was de-politicised and simply a great excuse for a neighbourly party. Is the date of All Souls (2nd Nov) a co-incidence or an attempt to replace pagen festival (like All-Saints on 1st)? I always understood that All Saints was a displacement of the pagan festival, but that All Souls was placed to be next to All Saints. The theological link is that All Saints celebrates all those who have 'officially made it' but have not been allocated a special Saint's day, whereas "All Souls" celebrates those who have not been recognised officially even though those who knew them recognise their saintly qualities, together with those who, while not perhaps particular saintly were not clearly destined for damnation. Therefore together the two days celebrate all those who have triumphed over evil. Finally some songs - The souling classics at the start of this thread, such as "A soul, a soul, a soul-cake" from lots of singers; "Guy, Guy, Guy" which I've only heard from Martyn Windham-Read (how can anyone have three parts to a name where you are unsure how to spell any of them?) and "Welcome Cold November". More generally, how about "Digging Graves is my Delight" [=Dust to Dust]? |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Firecat Date: 06 Oct 01 - 12:11 PM If you're wanting spooky pop songs, I recommend Backstreet Boys "Backstreet's Back" for it's "Thriller-esque" video. Another good one is by a five piece British pop group called allSTARS. It's called "Things That Go Bump In The Night" and it featured in their TV series STARStreet. "Beware of the full moon |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Peg Date: 05 Oct 01 - 01:14 AM "Are You Happy Now?" mentions Hallowe'en (a couple breaks up that day) I forget who wrote it.
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Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Dani Date: 04 Oct 01 - 10:26 PM Walking Eagle, what's "Bringing Mary Home"? Dani |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: iamjohnne Date: 04 Oct 01 - 01:53 PM I remember an old country-flavored tune, can't recall the artist though:
Just moved in my new house today. And of course, my memory fails me. I can't remember the rest of the song. I guess I am just gonna have to admit that I am old. Johnne |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST,JD Date: 04 Oct 01 - 01:41 PM Night Prowler by AC/DC, and Midnight Rambler by the Stones. And ANYTHING by Black Sabbath. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: VoxFox Date: 03 Oct 01 - 01:44 PM Here's a few more from the rock side:
The Dead Next Door - Billy Idol This is great and I'm picking up lots of ideas for future use. Keep 'em coming. VF |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Walking Eagle Date: 03 Oct 01 - 12:21 PM Ghost Riders in the Sky also comes to mind. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Peg Date: 03 Oct 01 - 09:29 AM How about "I Want Candy" by Bow Wow Wow?
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Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Genie Date: 03 Oct 01 - 03:02 AM How about "Bad Moon Rising"? Come to think of it, "Lookin' Out My Back Door" is pretty freaky, too! Genie |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST,Adrienne Date: 02 Oct 01 - 12:14 AM I don't think anyone has mentioned "Riders on the Storm" by the Doors. That always scared me to death if it came on the radio when I was home alone. Also, around 1970 there was a song called "Timothy" about a miner, trapped in a cave, resorting to cannibalism. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST,Johnny Dabone Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:25 PM How the heck can we get this far in the thread without somebody mentioning the mighty Black Sabbath? C'mon now! The song "Black Sabbath" itself works wonderfully on any Halloween mix tape. You could throw in just about anything by the Sabbs, including powerhouse numbers like "Children Of The Grave" and "NIB". If you don't have any Sabbath on a Halloween tape, you will quite likely and justly become the object of scorn by your more discriminating party-goers. C'mon now!! |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Peg Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:11 PM Thanks for mentioning "Vampire" as I was about to do the same. One of the best modern scholars on the subject of the replacement of old pagan feast days and festivals with church-based holidays is Ronald Hutton; may I recommend hsi books The Rise and Fall of Merrie England and Stations of the Sun. It is amusing to me that anyone doubts this... Winter Solstice/Yule falls on December 20-22/Christmas is December 25th. A great many secular symbols prevail here (candles and lights--solstice is the rebirth of the light--or the sun or "the son"; frankincense had been sacred to solar gods well before the age of Christianity; trees, holly, mistletoe...) Ostara/Eostre (feast of Teutonic spring fertility goddess) falls near full moon after spring equinox, as does EASTER (Eostre/easter???) and how about all those secular symbols we associate with easter which seem rather, ahem, fertile in their meaning (eggs, bunnies, flowers)? Samhain (Gaelic for Summer's End)/Hallowe'en/All Saint's Day/All Soul's Day, on October 31 thru November 2: all are feasts/celebrations of the dead.
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Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie) Date: 01 Oct 01 - 10:31 PM Here's an old round we liked:
Have you seen the ghost of John? And of course, we couldn't get through Mischief Night without, "There was an old woman all skin and bones...." |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Bert Date: 01 Oct 01 - 02:16 AM "Ain't It Grand to be Bloomin' Well Dead." is one. I usually resort to "Tom Pierce" [=Widecombe Fair?] or my own "Plastic Flower Seeds". Joe, Years ago the magazine "The Essex Countryside" published a very good article on the pagan stone at Beauchamp (pronounced Beecham) Roding. It told the legend of how the stone, which the pagans used to worship, was brought down to the village to be incorporated into the Christian church which was then being built. This was done so that the pagans would have to come to the church when they wanted to worship their stone. This was a common practice in those times and several other churches were mentioned which had 'pagan stones' built into their walls (Stratford is the only other one that I can remember). Legend has it that during the night, the devil came down (or would that be UP) and took the stone back to its rightful home on the top of a nearby hill. The church builders brought it back down again the next day, but it was returned to its hilltop again that night. After trying several times, the church builders finally gave up the battle and built their church up on the hill alongside the stone. When you next go to England, be sure to include Beauchamp Roding on your tour and see the pagan stone in the churchyard. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Folky1 Date: 30 Sep 01 - 11:16 PM I can't believe no one has mentioned Michael Smith's song "Vampire". Claudia Schmidt recorded a bang-up version of it early in her career. It's the most haunting song I know for this theme. Buddy Mondlock has a fun song called "Skeleton" about a skeleton in his closet. "The Unquiet Grave" is good too. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: HelenJ Date: 30 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM "Old Pendle" and " Matthew Hopkins". HelenJ. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST,Genie Date: 30 Sep 01 - 01:47 PM California Ghoul, We used to sing the "When I Die" song, "...the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out, the ants play pinochle on your snout ..." |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Walking Eagle Date: 30 Sep 01 - 01:26 PM Wow! I made it through this looooooooooooooooong thread and I still have a song to offer. Bringing Mary Home! I can't believe that I have something to offer that wasn't mentioned before. |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Kaleea Date: 30 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM My fav is the original--"Night on Bald Mountain"--you may recall this from Disney's "Fantasia", however, what I play on Hallowe'en to scare the trick or treaters is Gregorian Chant on low speed--backwards! |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: John P Date: 29 Sep 01 - 05:42 PM It seems like folks just sort of naturally have a harvest feast, a mid-winter celebration, a Spring-time celebration, etc., no matter what religion they are, or even if they don't have any religion. Of course, relgions try to make them into holy days . . . JP |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Blackcatter Date: 29 Sep 01 - 01:36 AM Hi Joe & All, Among the historians of the modern Pagan movement as well as esteemed individuals such as Joseph Campbell is is generally considered that the Christian Church did not create holidays or celebrations to directly counteract the Pagan celebrations. Insead, what usually happened was that the King, Prince or Chieftain of a certain place converted to Christianity and made a decree that everyone in his land had to convert. The cycle of celebrations would have their "meaning" changed but much of the ritual stayed the same. This was likely to be done to sort of wean the people away from the old religion. In place where that didn't work, the Christian Church killed people. Did the Church have malicious intent in taking over the ancient rituals? In many ways probably not, but the be honest, when you are a leader of the "one true religion" it is easy to treat other faiths as wrong, misguided or evil. Another bit of evidence for how the Christians approached the conversion of Pagans is that so many of the Catholic Saints are actually based on Pagan Deities. There was a whole industry in the middle ages in developing the biographies of invented saints. Haigiography is the name for that. pax yall
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Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 29 Sep 01 - 12:44 AM I'll be posting something under Watchfires...but anyway, on November 1 at 9 p.m. (your time) people around the world will be lighting watchfires...from a candle to a bonfire, to guide lost souls home. There is a lot of history and folklore associated with this. Vietnam veterans especially have been doing this over the last few years. Please join us and let us light up the world. mg |
Subject: RE: Halloween Songs From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:14 PM Can anybody supply leads to historical documents that prove the Christian feasts were established to counteract pagan celebrations held on the same dates? The Christian feasts have many elements related to their pagan predecessors - this would seem to indicate an evolution from the pagan celebrations, rather than something legislated to supplant the pagan feasts. I'll stick to my "folk process" theory until somebody comes up with solid evidence to the contrary. I've studied a lot of church history - most everything in churches happens by evolution, and then is eventually made official by some sort of decree. It would seem that people kept their traditions after they converted to Christianity, more-or-less putting a Christian "spin" on things they had done for centuries. I realize that it was once common practice for Christians to deny that their faith had in any way developed from earlier paganism, but more recent students of church history see a much closer relationship between Christian traditions and earlier pagan traditions. Christian theologians also have developed a much more favorable view of ancient paganism, and the earlier religions are no longer rejected as "evil." Perhaps those who call themselves pagans might consider doing the same favor to Christianity - to look to see what we all have in common, and to see where there is good in all systems of belief. -Joe Offer- |
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