Is Pentangle overlooked??

Subject: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:22 PM

Why isn't Pentangle a bigger issue in the history of music? Wasn't they creative enough? Or am I wrong?

Morten.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: BlueJay
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 11:43 PM

GUEST- Are you referring to the group featuring John Renbourn? If so, you ask a very good question, which I can't answer. Back in the 60/70's, I believe they did have a considerable impact on the music scene, even though they didn't seem to have a "broad market" appeal. They were played on FM radio at times, not as much as they deserved, IMO. I have always loved Renbourn's guitar playing. Thanks for the memory jog, BlueJay

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: BigDaddy
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 12:32 AM

Pentangle rates right up there with Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span. As Jacqui McShee's Pentangle they continue to evolve, keeping much of what was good in the early days, as well as adding some new touches. John Renbourn and Bert Jansch are two other (original) members whose solo and varied group projects are prolific. They, too, continue to record and tour. You just have to watch for them.

J.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST,John in Brisbane
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 01:01 AM

Australia's finest double bass player, the redoubtable Peter Howell, was a big fan of Pentangle and their bass player circa 1975. His endorsement is good enough for me, but I'd agree that they got little exposure. Regards, John

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: BlueJay
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 01:04 AM

BigDaddy- Thanks for the info, I'm glad to learn that they are still together! I didn't think they were. Of course, I'm sort of isolated; I haven't heard of Pentangle lately and I doubt if they appear in southern Colorado regularly. I'll have to get some of their newer stuff. For that matter, I'll have to get some of their older stuff as well. None of the vinyl has survived. A favorite of mine is possibly titled, "A Maid Who's Deep In Love", at least that's what I call it. I play it as an instrumental, considering the words are long lost, and it works really well as a jam number.

BD, I agree completely that they have always been right up there. Regarding GUEST's original question, I've always felt the Pentangle was so creative and inventive, that the main-stream music industry couldn't see it, therefore they never got the credit due to them. I may be wrong, I'm sort of isolated. In any case, I doubt if Renbourn et al are too concerned. Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 04:02 AM

I think that Pentangle rather fell between stools, at least in the UK. Their music was too 'folky' to make it in the mainstream, and too smooth for the folkies of the time, who were much more (I think) than today into a raw, direct approach which we thought of as more authentic. So the Pentangle fans tended to get bracketed with washing machines, Radio 2 and demanding a bed when you went to stay with someone.

Cheers Paul Burke

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 08:09 AM

Another incarnation of sorts was the John Renbourn Group, which existed around 1978-83 (I think). Jacqui McShee handled most of the lead vocals for them too. In a sense it was a continuation of Pentangle, with a little more of the old English folk orientation and a little less of the blues (I always thought the former was Pentangle's strong suit; never felt that Pentangle or Renbourn as a solo handled the jazz/blues end of the spectrum particularly well). The group featured Tony Roberts (?) on flute, and at various times they also included violin, tabla, and additional vocals. I saw them in concert in 1980; great performance.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 08:13 AM

I agree with you, Whistle Stop, about the folk being their strength. I've kept up with Pentangle a bit, but have felt that since John Renbourn left the ooomph has been missing. The work he did with the Ship of Fools etc. almost recreated what was missing. Pentangle had a huge influence on me at an early age; thanks for this thread!

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 08:23 AM

They were a big influence on me too, Animaterra. I started as a classical guitarist, and for me Pentangle/Renbourn were an important bridge to other styles, showing me how I might use the technique I had worked so hard on in other musical contexts. I met John Renbourn a few years ago -- bought him a drink after a show, and spent a few minutes talking with him. He was a very nice guy, who offered me a lot of encouragement at a time when I really needed it. One of my musical heroes.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 12:44 PM

They always sounded so OLD to me. Not the players, the music. I got the impression that listening to, say, Joan Baez, you hear what folk songs have become today. Listening to Pentangle was more like getting into a time machine and hearing them the way they were written, lo those many moons ago. Compare their Trees They Do Grow High, for instance. Love them, quoi.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: BigDaddy
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 01:19 PM

Ok, all you Pentangle fans, the official Pentangle site is at: http://www.folkcorp.co.uk/pent/welcome.htm Also, all of the material that was on vinyl is available on CD.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 08:14 PM

I'd say they fell precisely between those two stools Paul Burke mentioned. Some of their stuff had a strong contemporary-jazz flavour, and that helped make them sound a bit intellectual for folkies. On the other hand it was famously impossible to decipher the lyrics when Bert was singing, and that should have won them folk brownie points in spades.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST,celticblues5
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 11:22 AM

It's easier to find Renbourn's stuff now that there seem to be more independent & used music stores around (maybe that's just my perception). Even some of the bigger chains are getting a little more diversified - still would be hard pressed to find a Musicland employee who would not fix you with a blank stare when requesting Renbourn, though - ha!

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: LR Mole
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 11:54 AM

I can't think of a prettier acoustic guitar/electric guitar/standup bass interplay than their song "Reflections", a lovely folk/jazz waltz with Jansch vocals.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Dita
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:12 PM

Jacqui's Pentangle does not feature any of the original members. Bert has just released a new album, "Crimson Moon" featuring a new version of the first Pentangle single "Travelling Song" now called "Going Home". John continues to gig with all sorts of people from time to time ie. Robin Williamson, Wiz Jones et al. Danny after backing John Martin, assorted Fairports and basicly anyone worth thier salt and fronting his own band "Whatever", had a stroke a couple of years ago prompting Simon Nicol to suggest his new band would be "Blokes with Strokes". No info on Terry.
A little John Renbourn story "for he is the nicest man in folk music" (joint first with Iain MacIntosh).
My band supported John at a gig in Coatbridge, Scotland. "Where's the nearest good hotel" says John. "Come home with us, if you don't mind the house being a bit of a guddle," says my bass player, Ian.
"Oh, a guddle, I've never seen one of them", quo John.
love, john

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 08:48 PM

Wiz Jones. Another blast from the past. Maybe I'm even older than I thought.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: rangeroger
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:15 PM

Danny Thompson has been playing with Richard Thompson quite a bit and his bass playing is as impressive as ever.

Pentangle was a great favorite of mine and I do understand older folkies feeling they were too smooth.I used to belong to the San Diego Folk Music Society. I learned Lord Franklin from a Pentangle album and sang it at one of the song circles. Was told I didn't do it in a traditional enough manner.

rr

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: rangeroger
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:18 PM

PS

Bigdaddy, thanks for the website.

rr

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Peter Howell
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 02:16 AM

Dear John and all, Personally I can never overlook Pentangle.I was introduced to their music by Gordon McIntyre in the late 60's. I had just started playing double bass in the Melbourne folk scene. When I heard Danny Thompson's playing, well that was it for me. I met him when they toured here in 1973 and we had a lovely chat. He asked me a bit about myself and my bass and strings etc. I was using classical strings at the time (didn't know any better then!)and he gave me a set of the ones he used and said "try these I'm sure you'll get what you're looking for".Indeed I did! I still have them in my "pool room!" Danny is still playing so beautifully. Saw him play here with Richard Thompson the other year - what an exquisite team. Then there's Bert Jansch - my most favourite of acoustic guitar players. And I love his voice!. We met in 1996 and again in 1998 and played some gigs together. The last of these gigs in 98 was recorded and released on cd as "Bert Jansch, Downunder, Live In Australia", on the Castle label. His playing and singing on this cd is great.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: VIN
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 05:25 AM

The original Pentangle sound was brilliant. As Peter k states, there music had a contempory jazz flavour, mainly thanks to the great playing of Terry Cox and Danny Thompson. Basket of Light blew my mind when i first heard it! In fact there sound was a kind of fusion, in my opinion of traditional folk song, blues and jazz with Jaquie as the main central voice - great stuff. Nice that they are still performing brilliantly either solo or occasionally together like the recent excellent Renbourne/McShee gig i went to. By the way, anyone know the current performing status or whereabouts of Terry Cox?

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 05:39 AM

Cor, Wiz Jones. I once saw him 'supporting' The Albion Band in the Half Moon in Putney. He sat down, took swig of his mug of tea, and said to the room, "Anybody want to hear anything in particular?" He played an hour or so, entirely requests, entirely on his own. Magic.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 07:41 AM

Wizz is still doing loads of gigs, often with his son Simeon. Saw him just a few weeks ago near his South London home.   He was full of stories about the early 1960s days in Cornwall along with Pete Stanley, Ralph McTell as well as Bert, John and Jacqui before Pentangle.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 09:37 AM

Maria Ouspenskaya did a fine job of overlooking the pentangle in one of the Werewolf films -- Werewolf in London, I think. Lon Chaney had the sign of the pentangle on his hand.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:41 AM

Hi everybody
Does everyone know the lyrics of a bert jansch's song :"Tell me what is true love" (Rosemary lane) because as I'm not a native Englkish speaker, I can't transcribe all his words...

Can anybody help me????

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: masato sakurai
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 09:16 AM

Gene, it's HERE. Click on "Tell Me What Is True Love - Side 2".

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 01:44 PM

I remember the Half Moon at Putney from the days of Royd Rivers, Cliff Aungier,Lisa Turner, and Gerry [Shit what's his full name!] I remember Danny Thompson pissed as a fart, chasing his bass across the stage, as the spike slid back in. I remember Jo-Ann Kelly and her brother, Alex Campbell, and many many others.
I remember the Levee Breakers, Martin Windsor, Redd Sullivan, Basically I'm getting old.
Anybody else remember Eclection with Dorris Henderson [lovely], and an Aussie base player called Trevor Lucas,[what happened to him?], can't remember any of the other group members.
John

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST,Peter Howell
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 04:07 PM

Trevor Lucas - He was a folksinger from here in Melbourne who went to London in th 60's.I remember him more from Fairport Convention And Fotheringay. He was married to Sandy Denny ( bless her heart)and when she died he moved back here. I'm sad to say he too has passed on. (Bless his heart).

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 04:41 PM

Gerry Lockran [sp?] I remembered. Yes I seem to remember that he was a big bloke with auburn hair. Surely he must have died young? I seem to remember him as being a similar age to me.
John
Where were you when I was in Melbourne in October?

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 04:42 PM

Trevor Lucas was the guy with the auburn hair not Jerry DOH!!!
John

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Adrianl
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 05:25 PM

Jaqui McShee's Pentangle have been booked for this years Banbury Canalside Folk Festival

Banbury Canalside Folk Festival

Adrian

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 05:35 AM

A great thanks to Masato sakurai for its response!!!
I wish to you all a good day.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: van lingle
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 07:32 AM

So Clear is among the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. Renbourn's guitars and vocal and that great rhythym section catch the mood just right. When I listen to Pentangle now some of their vocals and arrangements seem kind of dated and some timeless. You've got to admire a group that combined sitar and banjo (and made it work) in the same old ballad back in the mid-sixties. The John Renbourn Group was also amazing with their Guitar, Flute, Tabla, Fiddle and gorgeous vocal arrangements. I'm still wearing out A Maid in Bedlam (the album that is) which contains the best version of Black Waterside I've heard. My 2 cents. vl

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: fat B****rd
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 07:43 AM

As a footnote. Thompson and Cox were in Alexis Korner's remarkable band on 5 o'clock club in the Sixties (BBC UK) Danny said recently that it was a good gig and well paid !!

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 12:00 AM

As has been said, some/most folkies didn't regard Pentangle with the respect that they deserved back then, and I include myself in the number.
My own appreciation of them has grown steadily over the years, and now I include 'Basket of Light' among my favourite LPs, and Renbourn as my favourite guitarist. maybe I'm getting sophisticated, but Her Indoors says not.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 08:17 AM

I don't know if Gerry Lockran died young, but I do know he stopped performing many years ago after a bad stroke.

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: GUEST,Redhorse at work
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 08:34 AM

Danny Thompson can currently be seen (and heard) on BBC4 in the Transatlantic Sessions

Subject: RE: Is Pentangle overlooked??
From: Adrianl
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 03:59 PM

Earlier in the thread I said that Pentangle were coming to the Banbury canalside Festival this year.

BAD NEWS

They have had to cancel

GOOD NEWS

Jacqui McShee and John Renbourn are coming instead!

Also Meet on the Ledge
Strawhead
Mundy - Turner
Kevin Dempsey & Joe Broughton
Bob Fox and Benny Graham plus many others

Banbury Canalside Festival 2004

Adrian