Lyr Add: They're Not Writing Folk Songs Like ...

Subject: Lyr Add: THEY'RE NOT WRITING FOLK SONGS LIKE...
From: GUEST,Stephen L. Suffet
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 09:05 PM

THEY'RE NOT WRITING FOLK SONGS LIKE THEY USED TO ANYMORE
Tune: "Danville Girl" (traditional)
(the same tune Woody Guthrie used for "East Texas Red")
Words: Jeri Corlew & Stephen L. Suffet © 2000

In a age when sex and violence,
Are intimately entwined,
I'd expect to hear a lot of songs,
About jealousy and crime,
Introspective navel-gazing,
Is such a bloody bore,
But they're not writing folk songs,
Like they used to anymore.

In days of old the minstrels told,
Of Lord Arnold's cheating wife,
And of Matty Groves whom she led to bed,
And of how both did loose their life.
I would expect today the song of O.J.,
Like the balladry of yore,
But they're not writing folk songs,
Like they used to anymore.

Folk singers once sang of outlaw gangs,
And of union-busting thugs,
Of wild windy plains and fast freight trains,
And of little critters and bugs,
Of pretty young girls with their Tennessee curls,
And the oppression of the poor,
But they're not writing folk songs,
Like they used to anymore.

The Irish rebel songs are gone,
And the Scots and Welsh as well.
The music company executives say,
That stuff just doesn't sell.
But synthesized pseudo-Celtic crap,
Lines the shelves of my music store.
And they're not writing folk songs,
Like they used to anymore.

---

Line breaks added. --JoeClone
Steve, to get a line break, you can type
at the end of each line, or copy one and paste it repeatedly.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 09:10 PM

I'm going to hold back my temper on this one!

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Bugsy
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 09:17 PM

Good one GUEST,Stephen L. Suffet, Just about covered the whole folk music spectrum there, apart from Queen Jane getting her side ripped open to "Save my baby".

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 09:31 PM

And Mary Hamilton getting hung. Covered it all. Maybe Max should limit the Mudcat to blues.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 09:31 PM

AND our own Jeri there too!!!! Very cute Jeri...and Stephen! They just had a hit with the "Murder on Music Row"........I think you've written the folkie version.

Yeah, yeah, yeah....I know, ya' can't write a folksong, but we all get the drift!! Jeri, we're proud of you!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 09:52 PM

Awwwww, Matt. It's OK to let loose - just use your own words and make it rhyme.

We wrote this a while back, but Steve has edited it and put it to the tune. Steve is responsible for starting quite a few "cybersongs" over in the newgroup rec.music.folk - a wonderful idea. He'll name the tune and start with a verse or several, and other folks will add verses.

Thanks for posting this Steve, and WELCOME!

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 09:59 PM

Can't. Too P.O.'ed to rhyme much of anything.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Gary T
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 10:47 PM

At the risk of opening Pandora's box here, what are you P.O.ed about, Matt?

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 10:58 PM

There should be no obligation for anyone to HAVE to write folksongs. You write what you feel. If you feel sythesizer Celtic music, then that's how you choose to express yourself, it shouldn't be attacked. I write what I WANT to, and have no desire to write memorable folk-ish songs about things I don't care about. There is a right to choose how you represent yourself in music. It shouldn't be criticized because SOME people don't like it.

--Matt

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 11:53 PM

Hmmm....most folks feel things like "synthesizer celtic music" because they feel the bread floating into their wallets....

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 11:56 PM

Tell that to Phil Cunningham!

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:28 AM

Stephen,

I couldn't've said it better myself. You, sir, have hit the nail right where it needs to be hit to drive home the point. Many of us agree with you pretty much totally. It is sad that so many these days are content to be so deluded, wrong and generally incapable of seeing the truth of it and/or the folly of their ways.

At least you and I know what a folksong IS.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 08:21 AM

I'm with Matt on this one. This sanctimonious message that keeps repeating itself in these type of threads -- "we are the true folkies," basically -- gets pretty grating to some of us. Besides, it's kind of silly to write a song complaining about how "they" are not writing folk songs any more. Wouldn't your time be better spent writing the kind of songs you feel are lacking, rather than complaining that "they" aren't doing it for you? You think we need a song about OJ? Write one!

The beauty of "folk," in most people's definition (I believe), is that nobody gets to claim exclusive ownership of it -- not the navel-gazers, not the angst-ridden adolescents, and not the arch-traditionalists. We all write, sing and play what has the most meaning for us, and then we discover later what portions of it end up being added to the folk tradition. To put a different twist on an old saying, "folk is what happens to you when you're making other plans".

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 08:52 AM

Surely Stephen L's song does fit the bill for the sort of song it is requiring - ie its about a contemporary issue about which he feels strongly. So he has indeed written a song of the kind he feels are lacking. I liked it loads, well done SL.

kris

hope I don't sound sanctimonious though... oh well, never mind.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 09:09 AM

Whistle Stop, I think you missed the point. At least for my part in it, I tried to view the issue (long battles about "what is folk" that occurred on Usenet long before they started here at Mudcat) from an extremist point of view, although there's truth in the song. It was written with a sense of humor, which may not be evident to those who 1) have none, 2) don't think other people have one, 3) take opinions that differ from theirs as personal threats, or 4) would rather be offended (and dream up motives) than take the time to try to understand why people say what they do.

There is an equally sanctimonious opposite point of view - "Folk music = all music. It's folk music because we say so, and we're going to ignore any previous definition of the word, and anyone who doesn't agree with us is a big old poopy-head." This is also known as the "never heard a h*rse sing it" theory. I wonder what people who believe this think is the difference between all music they like and/or play and folk music...

Try this one:
If you never sing a new song, nothing new will get passed on
We'll only have the same old stuff we've sung since time began
Good thing the "please don't sing it" crowd weren't there then, or weren't real loud
Cause all the lyrics we would have would be "diddle daddle dan"

Chorus:
But somebody had to write the songs and somebody had to pass 'em on
So find the ones you like, and make them all your own
And someone will hear it anew, and learn the melody from you
And in this way tradition carries on

If a song is newly written, it may not worth learnin'
There's an awful lot of awful stuff, too personal and long
But all you really have to do is pick the ones that call to you
And let the test of time weed out the weak ones from the song

(somebody please tell me I'm not in another one of those pointless discussions again...crap...)

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: GUEST,Stormy
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 09:26 AM

Whistle Stop, I agree, and I love that last line. If you don't mind I will use it later. There are so many different types of song that have all been put into the 'country' category by the powers that run the music business. I never could understand why they did it. A ballad is a ballad, country is country, folk is folk, and traditional should be put in a class all by itself. I think it's all in the way you choose to view what is presented. I'm just old enough to know that there really is a difference, but I still love them all.
A rose is still a rose. Play and write what feels good. When you have time to get riled up over what type of song someone else likes, you aren't spending enough time writing or singing your own songs.
Slan, Stormy :)

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 09:42 AM

I should say I agree 100% with Whistle Stop's second paragraph. Folks, some level of irony should be evident in the song, because there are some great songs being written these days.

It may be more evident in the first verse I wrote, which was cut out because it didn't fit the direction the rest of the song went in:

'Tis true the pen is mightier,
Than any sword or gun,
And statesmen with their peaceful talk,
Are spoiling all the fun,
No more heroes, no more martyrs,
No more blood and guts and gore,
And they're just not writing folk songs,
Like they used to anymore.

<irony> Stephen, I agree with Art, and I couldn't have said it better myself.</irony>

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 09:46 AM

Great song. Thanks for sharing it. My folkie friends and I will add it to our repertoires.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 09:52 AM

They're not writing classical music like they used to either. Or making Jews like Jesus (and a tip of the Hatlo hat to Kinky Friedman!). They're not doing a lot of things like they used to, Grampaw.

I like your song, but to me it seems to be another Ode to a Half-Empty Glass (Or is it half-filled?)

I think I'll go home and write an "Ode to a Half-Empty Glass" (copyright pending). Enjoy your exercise in the right to gripe.
Bart

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Naemanson
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 10:02 AM

I wish someone would tell me when these "what is folk music?" threads were coming up. Then I could sell tickets to the debate. they are much more entertaining than the presidential debates. But then so is watching paint dry.

Here is an idea. Since this comes up so often why not have a REAL DEBATE? We could have a moderator, choose sides, and set up a thread specifically for the debate.

Here's how I see it working.

THR GREAT DEBATE QUESTION: What is Folk Music? Side 1 [List of Representatives] Side 2 [List of Representatives]

The moderator would start with a list of questions. S/He would start off with a question and present it to a side chosen at random. Those on that list of representatives would get a day to formulate their position. On that day they would be the only people authorized to post to the thread. The moderator would then notify the other side that it was their turn to rebut. That side would also have a day to post. PM's, of course are encouraged for coordinating repsonses.

The moderator would then open the floor to discussion allowing others to post their questions and positions. This would also be a one day opportunity.

Then we reverse the process to allow the other sides to answer questions.

The time limitation for posting would have to be on the honor system.

What do you think. Do you guys have the guts for formalize the argument?

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 10:03 AM

Bart, yeah. But I've always wondered why the half empty vs half full analogy isn't carried to the next step. The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Good luck with the song, I'll try my own. Mooh.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 10:18 AM

Mooh - I like that!

Naemanson, the "what is folk" debate:

Side 1:
Folk music is traditional music of the common people. To be traditional, it has to have been passed down generations. No new stuff allowed...ever. Gotta go stomp on some Dylan CDs now.

Side 2:
You're all a bunch of pedantic old farts. If I sing it, it must be folk music. Categories? We don't need no steenkin' categories?

Side 3:
Folk music is traditional music, but the only way it gets to be traditional is if people learn it. So I'm learning some new songs AND some old ones.

Side 4:
Whatever...anybody got the chords for "Yesterday?"

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: sophocleese
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:00 AM

Jeri you forgot one side..

Side 5: If anybody ever made money off of it they ain't, and nothing they ever wrote ain't, folk.

Matt R. you're confusing the use of definitions with the repression of free expression. An artist, or anybody, is free to express themselves in any legal medium they choose to use. In this house if I wanted to create a piece of visual art to express an idea or a feeling I could do so with acrylics, or watercolours, or pen and ink, or pencil sketch, or a sculpture using found objects (I just skim the stuff off of my kid's floor now and again) or papier mache or any combination of the above (collage). That freedom to express myself is not compromised or diminished if I call a watercolour a watercolour and a pencil sketch a pencil sketch.

Folk and blues music are the favoured music forms of most people on this site. That doesn't mean that all other forms of music are junk or that many of us don't enjoy a lot of different music as well. I'm glad that you like a wide range of different musical styles. I thinks its healthy and intelligent and I don't want to stop you enjoying any of them. What you like can be organized into a broad category known as music with sub categories like folk, blues, classical, rock and various sub-sub-categories if you really want. Definitions don't limit but a perceived hierarchy of worthiness attached to definitions can do so. Some people exalt one genre over others but that doesn't mean you have to or that you have to believe them and then waste time and energy trying to show how other types of music fit that one exalted form.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:14 AM

Sohpocleese, I think you're right. But there's also a legitimate point of view that the "folk" category is larger and broader than some feel it is. We don't need to get into that discussion again (I'll recuse myself from the formal debate), but when one of the posters says "at least you and I know what a folk song IS," it does tend to raise some hackles.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:17 AM

Jeri said:"somebody please tell me I'm not in another one of those pointless discussions again...crap..."

Still waiting for someone to tell you?

I just thought it was a funny little song. Good work guys.

Rick

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Bert
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:18 AM

Well it's a good song and it makes a good point.
Trouble is, it's not strictly true. Good songs 'are' being written about our way of life and of newsworthy events.
The 'real problem' is that the good songs are not being heard. Take a look at Aine's song pages. The songs are there. But how many of them have you heard anywhere else but here?

Get in touch with your local Radio/TV/Newspaper/Music Store and tell THEM the kind of music you want to hear and tell them where to find it.

Subject: What a frigg'n joke!
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 12:39 PM

This place needs a bran muffin...

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 12:43 PM

Clinton. And something strong with which to wash it down. Say perhaps, radiator fluid. Mooh.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 12:49 PM

As Oasis would say:

"I'm free to be whatever I
Whatever I choose and I'll sing the blues if I want"

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 12:56 PM

People are writing songs about injustice, hate, killing, and so forth. But they're rap songs. I personally don't enjoy listening to rap, so I don't listen to them much. But complaining that the people who are writing about real issues aren't using your favorite instruments and writing in your favorite genre is a little --um-- self-indulgent.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:05 PM

Definately. Check out Rage Against The Machine. They are (actually were...they're breaking up) a rock band with serious hip-hop influences. The music is heavily political. Their lead singer is from Mexico, and a good deal of their music deals with the politics and situation of the people in the Cheopas region of Mexico. "Bulls On Parade" is an especially good song. But it's not what folkies would call folk, but it certainly does address the issues of the PEOPLE. Just because it is played on big electric guitars and has powerful rapping vocals doesn't mean it isn't worth recognizing. The last time I checked, traditional instruments do not a folk song make. And I you can bet that a kid in Mexico is more likely to look up to Alex & guys from Rage and not a mariachi player in a cantina playing happy little folksongs.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 10:58 PM

Matt- I heard a great folk rwecording called B Minor Mass by some cat named Bach.I really like it.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:10 PM

Just bought "Atlantic Soul". Whooeee! Wilson Pickett, Ray Charles, Doris Troy, Aretha, Big Joe Turner!!, Booker T, Sam and Dave, Otis Redding. All stuff from '64 and earlier .....they may not be folk to some, but by Christ, they're good! Played Leadbelly, The Carter Family and freddie Mercury afterwards. Now if that ain't a way to make washing floors and cupboards go quickly, I don't know what is!

Rick

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: GUEST,harp
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 02:54 AM

Synchronicity again! "ohhh wow, far out man!!!" My eighteen year old son loves my Sam and Dave CD!!! He especially likes me to crank up "Hold on, I'm Comin" on the truck player!!!!!...hahahaha...Sittin on the Dock of the Bay is my personal favorite sad song...music rules!!

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Frankham
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 03:20 PM

There are those who crowd the coffehouse In search of verse or rhyme While others spew metered verse Without the test of time. They all proclaim the muse has struck And gush out verse galore Though others far away from there Make folk songs by the score.

These others hid away from view Are surely with us now. You won't hear much about them Now that "folk"'s a Sacred Cow. But there are those who grow with grace, Their tradition keeps the score And they are making folksongs As they used to do before.

Frank

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 05:32 PM

1. It's not either/or. You can like traditional music and Celtic-synth. One does not replace the other.

2. We tend to accentuate the folk point of view here becaues it is a folk site. There is probably a Celtic-synth site somewhere with young punks complaining about all the damned fiddles and squeeze boxes.

3. The point of the song, I think, is the content of modern songs versus folk songs. Why aren't people writing about actual murders, disasters, and so on? Why aren't there topical songs that tell stories any more? Why should anyone care about some singer/songwriter's precious little love life?

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 06:19 PM

1) Yes, I love these threads.
2) I do really believe the positions I've taken in these recurring threads.
3) Folk music should be more than a springboard to pop and country success. This is apparent to anyone who takes the time to immerse themselves in the totality of these terms and their meanings over the years.
4) Declaring that the emperor is wearing clothes will never obfusticate the obvious.
5) I just made up the word obfusticate.
6) As Bob Franke--a fine singer/songwriter -- said in one of his creations:

"As long as sentimental super salesman tell it wrong and make it big,
I will make it small and tell it right.

7) PARADOX: Yes, Bob Franke is a singer/songwriter--and I'm using his modern song to make my point for the traditional side. (Will wonders never cease.)

8) I'm done ! (But I'll be back -- if the people need me.)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 06:35 PM

Earl, maybe because disasters and murders are not everyone's cup of tea.

I'l write what I want. I like writing folk songs. I don't give a rat's ass about politics or OJ or injustices in 3rd world nations, and I don't feel I should be pressured to write about them because someone else is lacking them. If you want that kinda stuff, write it your bleedin' self. And I'll keep writing my own songs. And I'll have them played one whatever instruments I want. So NAH! As Rick Nelson said "You can't please everyone, so you gotta please yourself." I write music that please ME, and don't feel I should write music for everyone else, because I think they'll like it. That's commercialism whether you make money off of it or not.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Suffet
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 06:39 PM

"They're Not Writing Folksongs" was intended as light hearted humor, and nothing else. Enjoy it, but please try not to read too much into it.

Jeri wrote the first and last verse. I wrote the two middle verse, edited the lyrics, and set what remained to music. As Jeri pointed out, I cut out a verse in the process.

If at some of the stuff that is called folk music these days. Yes, both of us know there is plenty of good music still being written, and much of it will last for generations to come.


--- Steve

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Greyeyes
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 06:51 PM

If obfusticate isn't a word it bloody well should be.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 09:33 PM

"I'll write what I want. I like writing folk songs."

What in the hell was I THINKING?? The should have read "I like writing love songs."

--M

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Naemanson
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 11:22 PM

Freudian slip, Matt? Can you write me a love song that features a train wreck and a dead dog? *BG*

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Suffet
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 09:52 AM

The first sentence of my last paragraph got munged in transmission. Here is how it should read.

"If anything, it pokes fun at some of the stuff that is called folk music these days."

Sorry for the glitch. No obfuscation was intended.

---Steve

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 09:54 AM

Matt:

I applaud your most recent post above.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 12:12 PM

I can try, Brett...but the Irish Rover (extended version) is a love song featuring a SHIP wreck and a dead dog!

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 12:54 PM

Matt R, I still don't understand why you get so upset with the concept that some songs are folk songs and some are not. By all means, write what you want, please yourself. I write songs too, but I don't call them folk songs 'cause they're not.

Murder and disaster may not be everyone's cup of tea but they sure sell a lot of tabloids and movie tickets. I don't think the occasional murder song on the radio would do any lasting harm.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 01:47 PM

There was, Earl. Try "Jeremy" by Pearl Jam. It's about a boy who is picked on so much at school by classmates and teachers that he brings in a gun and wastes them all--"Jeremy spoke in class today". Good song.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 02:23 PM

It's true, there are still murder songs and sometimes they make it to the radio. I wanted to make a broader point though. There was a time, not too long ago, when it was accepted that songs would be written about actual disasters, murders and triumphs as well. There are several enduring songs written about the Titanic. If someone wrote a song about the recent Russian submarine disaster it would probably be considered bad taste. The O. J. Simpson case is so loaded with controversy that a serious song about it would probably not even be played on folk shows. Yet, apparently, there will be a made-for-TV movie about it and nobody is disturbed by that.

I know there are exceptions, "Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald" was a hit and Dylan's "Hurricane" got mainstream airplay for example. In general, though, the public is too cool for songs about real events. When and why did this happen?

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 11:58 AM

Probably the BIGGEST reason I love all music in general is the ability to make to forget everyday reality and to slip into a world where our minds can be free of the OJ's and disasters and murders and injustices of the Morning News.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 12:07 PM

Maybe so, Meebo, but some things should not be forgotten.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 12:16 PM

Well, there are lots of things that are not forgotten that aren't necessarily kept alive by music. Caesar beat Pompey at Pharsalus, Louis XIV built Versailles, Matt Perry opened up Japan to the world, Perry & Henson were the first men to make it to the North Pole, Saddam is an idiot, King John signed Magna Carta at Runnymede, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever...not everything needs a song to be remembered.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 12:50 PM

Yeah but those are all important parts of history (except the Michael Jordan thing....who cares?). What I am talking about, Meebo, are the obscure bits...the things Uncle Sam and various other governments want forgotten, things like the USS Indianapolis, the genocide in Rwanda, the fact that when hundreds of gay men started dying in the early eighties no one cared, the stolen generation in Australia, the sterilisation of retarded Americans....

There are other things that should not be forgotten and not all of them tragic like the beauty of one's homeland, the heroic efforts of men (and women) helping others to survive or to improve their country.

To me that is what folk music is all about. Keeping the past alive so that we may learn from the mistakes and successes of our ancestors.

We as writers, musicians, and artists are part of a great collective of spirits....the conscience of the world.

Amergin

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 01:00 PM

Yes, but there are also a whole lot of "folk" songs that have no historical or socio/political themes. Check out tons of Irish "diddly i ay" songs. They've survived NOT because they relate some unforgettable issue, but because they are fun to sing. And there are lots of songs out there today that people may want to slag off on because they don't have this "archival" quality...but people take enjoyment in singing them. And sometimes that's all that matters.

"If I get an encore, I go home feeling like a king---it's a two-way situation, I get a lot of pleasure when I sing."

--Christy Moore

Oh, and stop calling me Meebo!

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 01:08 PM

yes, Meebo, there are alot of folk songs that are not topical, but they are still there to help keep the past alive, to help us remember.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 01:27 PM

Well, we all take what we want out of this. For some, the sociopolitical aspects of folk songs are the essential elements, almost as if folk music exists for the sole purpose of adding spice to otherwise dry political discourse. For myself, I am most drawn to the themes that deal with emotions, the soul, the inner life, which tend to have more relevance to my life than "Which Side Are You On?" or "Union Maid". There are rare individuals (Woody Guthrie, Dylan, Tom Paxton) who are able to combine the political with the personal in a way that diminishes neither. But most overtly political songwriting falls short of this, in my most humble opinion.

Thankfully, there are plenty of "folk" songs (by just about anyone's definition) that have little if anything to do with political movements or events. Those tend to be the ones I prefer.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 03:30 PM

All of which supports my idea that any and all music that the common folk like to do, that CAN be done with simple unplugged instruments (or none) should be considered folk.

Based on that, if Matt sits with a group of people on the beach singing Oasis or Radiohead songs then I would consider that folk for the following reasons:

*The people sitting there with Matt recognize the songs enough to sing along.

*Matt is playing, in my vision, an old plywood classical guitar (Relax, Matt, in my vision that's the only thing available. At least it can be tuned!)

*Matt, as he plays changes the songs slightly to reflect the evening or, perhaps the pretty brunette that just caught his eye.

*There are at least two people present on the beach who know someone else they believe could do a better job. They sing along anyway.

Matt, you are not allowed to let the flames I am about to experience piss you off!

Oh Lord, for what I am about to receive...

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 03:44 PM

Of course we don't need as song about Michael Jordan, but wouldn't it be nice if there were one. That's all I'm saying.

BTW, I saw Wayne Newton on TV singing a song everyone knew and playing an accoustic guitar. Humdinger, folksingsr.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Matt_R
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 03:56 PM

Yeah, Earl, it WOULD be cool if there was a song about Michael! Just Saturday night, I was listening to Bob Dylan's Bootlegs Volume 3, and there was this song called "Catfish". I though "probably a blues kinda song." To my amazement, it was about pitcher Catfish Hunter. Catfish was a Eastern North Carolina native, and the streets that I call home were his old stomping ground. Sadly, he died quite recently...but I never knew anyone hat written a song about him. I need to add that one to my repetoire, in memory of a great Tarheel and a great man.

Thanks Brett, I LOVED what you wrote! It's also neat because Radiohead is very well know for writing acoustic, folk-ish songs. In fact, at their concerts, they tend to do a lot of their songs acoustically, which really brings out that aching, solitary, haunting feeling they aspire to.

--Matt

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 04:18 PM

All songs are political in their way. Songs about love won and love lost are songs about the politics between two people who care deeply for each other or two people who realise it is time to move on. Songs about murder are songs about the politics of the crime and the punishment recieved. Songs about sailing are songs about the politics of what its like to be a member of the crew. Songs about disasters are songs that observe the politics of the disaster and the aftermath, when folks are trying to arise from the devestation. Songs about people getting together and having a good time singing, talking, joking, drinking, and the like are songs about the politics of what happens when people just get together.

Amergin

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 04:20 PM

Yeah, "Catfish" is a good song.

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: GUEST,Bill in Alabama
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 05:03 PM

Hey Rick-- (Thread Creep) Many years ago, Wilson Pickett came to the Muscle Shoals Studios to make an album. Somebody had written a song for him called *Funky Hoedown,* and I worked on the session. According to Pickett, I'm the only bluegrass banjoist who has ever worked on a Wilson Pickett Recording!

Subject: RE: They're Not Wrting Folksongs
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 07:06 PM

Oh,they're writing them alright.They just aren't playing them on the radio.Stock up on 'em now and you'll be in great shape when the next great Folk Revival hits.