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Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?

Marion 10 Nov 00 - 12:18 AM
DonMeixner 10 Nov 00 - 12:24 AM
Gary T 10 Nov 00 - 12:28 AM
Bugsy 10 Nov 00 - 12:29 AM
ddw 10 Nov 00 - 12:31 AM
campfire 10 Nov 00 - 12:38 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 10 Nov 00 - 07:34 AM
Allan C. 10 Nov 00 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Lindsay in guest mode 10 Nov 00 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,mag (computer down while rugs being cleaned) 10 Nov 00 - 04:53 PM
mousethief 10 Nov 00 - 06:12 PM
murray@mpce.mq.edu.au 11 Nov 00 - 04:55 AM
Naemanson 11 Nov 00 - 07:34 AM
GUEST,Marion 19 Nov 00 - 07:26 PM
John in Brisbane 19 Nov 00 - 11:45 PM
okthen 20 Nov 00 - 04:29 AM
GUEST,Lindsay 20 Nov 00 - 09:53 AM
Jon W. 20 Nov 00 - 10:22 AM
Ella who is Sooze 04 Sep 01 - 09:01 AM
Fortunato 04 Sep 01 - 09:11 AM
Jon Freeman 04 Sep 01 - 09:39 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 04 Sep 01 - 09:50 AM
Liz the Squeak 04 Sep 01 - 03:57 PM
Mr Red 04 Sep 01 - 05:54 PM
toadfrog 04 Sep 01 - 06:14 PM
leprechaun 08 Jun 02 - 01:14 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 08 Jun 02 - 01:57 AM
Alice 08 Jun 02 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,Bubba 08 Jun 02 - 06:32 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 08 Jun 02 - 08:13 PM
Willie-O 09 Jun 02 - 09:14 AM
53 09 Jun 02 - 01:45 PM
Marion 10 Jun 02 - 12:51 AM
GUEST,T-boy 11 Jun 02 - 08:26 AM
SharonA 11 Jun 02 - 08:40 AM
HuwG 11 Jun 02 - 09:19 AM
Coyote Breath 11 Jun 02 - 10:14 AM
simon-pierre 11 Jun 02 - 07:42 PM
Marion 11 Jun 02 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,truckerdave 12 Jun 02 - 10:20 AM
Coyote Breath 13 Jun 02 - 08:17 AM
Willie-O 13 Jun 02 - 09:21 AM
GUEST,bassman 07 Dec 07 - 09:30 PM
Sorcha 07 Dec 07 - 10:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Dec 07 - 11:28 PM
Richard Bridge 07 Dec 07 - 11:47 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 08 Dec 07 - 08:45 AM
GUEST,bassman 08 Dec 07 - 02:49 PM
GUEST 05 Feb 09 - 10:19 PM
Joe Offer 06 Feb 09 - 02:28 AM
GUEST,crazy little woman 06 Feb 09 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 06 Feb 09 - 11:14 AM
john f weldon 06 Feb 09 - 12:34 PM
romany man 06 Feb 09 - 02:01 PM
john f weldon 30 Mar 09 - 12:38 AM
Peace 30 Mar 09 - 01:12 AM
GUEST,KC 02 Jun 09 - 09:17 PM
JohnInKansas 03 Jun 09 - 05:23 AM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 03 Jun 09 - 12:18 PM
reggie miles 03 Jun 09 - 02:23 PM
olddude 03 Jun 09 - 09:21 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jun 09 - 08:27 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Jun 09 - 10:06 AM
Charley Noble 10 Oct 09 - 09:03 PM
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Charley Noble 11 Oct 09 - 08:52 PM
GUEST 16 Nov 09 - 02:58 PM
GUEST,Shawna 16 Nov 09 - 02:59 PM
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Subject: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Marion
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:18 AM

Hello all. I'm in the market for a guitar, and I mentioned to somebody that I might check out the pawn shops. She said that the stuff carried by pawn shops is mostly stolen merchandise.

Do you think this is true? If a pawn shop guitar catches my eye, what steps would I take to make sure it wasn't stolen?

Thanks, Marion


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:24 AM

some maybe, most are not. An honest pawn broker won't be in business long if he buys stolen goods.

Don


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Gary T
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:28 AM

You'll probably get the most useful info on this by asking the local police. I would imagine that the situation varies with local laws and with individual pawn shops' policies. The cops probably know who the shady dealers are and may have some tips to help you avoid unwittingly getting something that was stolen.

I rather doubt that most pawn shop stuff has been stolen, but I don't really know much about it.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Bugsy
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:29 AM

"Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?" As my old dad used to say,"Does a one legged duck swim round in circles?"

Well the short answer is Yes, a lot of them do unfortunately.

I don't know where you live but in Australia, they are supposed to keep a register of ALL goods bought and the origin is SUPPOSED to be authenticated.

When you go to the local pawn shop and if you find something you like, ask them to show you the Authentication they ascertained when buying the goods. Also ask them for some kind of written guarantee that basically states that if the goods are found to be stolen, you will be held blameles and will be entitled to a full cash refund.

If they refuse, then go buy your instrument from a music shop.

cheers and good hunting

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: ddw
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:31 AM

Marion,

Sure there will be some stolen stuff in a pawn shop, but in most places the police do regular spot checks on those establishments just to make sure the broker isn't fencing hot goods. Most cities license the shops, so they're pretty clean these days.

Good luck in your hunt.

BTW — where are you and what kind of guitar are you looking for? 'Catters might be able to point you in the right direction and they certainly are more likely to know something about guitars than a lot of other people might.

cheers,

david


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: campfire
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:38 AM

Most pawn brokers won't knowingly take stolen goods, but every time I've been on a jury involving stolen goods, at least some of it was recovered by police in pawn shops. That was how they found the theif - the pawn dealer keeps records on where the stuff came from.(OK, so we have dumb crooks in Wisconsin who give real names and addresses to the pawn dealers)

Another good place to look is in Thrift Stores. A good friend of mine once found a really nice Yamaha. Not concert quality, but a nice practice guitar. First time he saw it it was marked $60. He didn't really need another guitar, so he took the chance on someone else buying it and waited until the next day, which was half-off-day, and picked it up for $30. My guess is somebody wanted a guitar, and then never played it after the first 2 months.

campfire


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 07:34 AM

As someone who has just been burgled (see the crime prevention thread), the police informed me that a lot of stolen stuff ends up in "Cash Converters" (the UKs modern day pawn shop chain), and although the shop requires ID from contributors, that's easily faked. My colleague had a lot of her stuff stolen last month, and some of it was recovered from one of these shops. I'd agree with Bugsy - ask about the seller, and if you're REALLY in doubt you could always check with the local police to see if such an item has been recently stolen, and if it's been post-coded with an ultraviolet pen.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Allan C.
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 08:20 AM

In order to pawn an item (in most places) you must produce an ID of some kind (drivers license, etc.) and sign a certification that you are, indeed, the owner of the item. It is not difficult to get a fake ID in order to comply with the certification. Sure, sometimes people aren't entirely truthful about how they acquired an item. But a pawn broker has little choice but to believe that what is certified is true. But most of them aren't stupid. They know it is against the law to receive stolen goods and so, if they have suspicions about a transaction, they will decline to accept the goods.

Pawn brokers are businessmen. They do what they can to stay in business. Most try to maintain a good, clean operation. But they are people. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes some of them even make those mistakes on purpose.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,Lindsay in guest mode
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 01:52 PM

Here in Minnesota, the laws require pawn shops to require ID. Additionally, the video tape the transactions and complete forms.

As a side note, someone tried to pawn my daughter's high school ring last week. The pawn shop owner took one look at the woman (obviously older than high school age) looked at the name engraved inside, told the woman it wasn't hers and that he was keeping it. He called the high school, who called us, and we have the ring back. I guess it does vary by geography and personnel.

Lindsay


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,mag (computer down while rugs being cleaned)
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 04:53 PM

Boy, I wish someone would find MY stolen high school ring.

Stolen stuff here routinely shows up in pawn shops. Owners of stolen guitars maybe could start an elist and everybody could check their local shop -- I've lost 2 in my lifetime to burglars.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 06:12 PM

Pawn shops in these parts are required to fill out cards stating the brand name, model, and serial number of all goods they buy (when available). These are then sent to the police department, where they sit in a huge filing cabinet until things are quiet enough for the police to send some unlucky officer over to the filing cabinet, to take out the cards one by one and check them against a registry database with similar info on known stolen goods. Usually it's weeks after an item is pawned before the cops can check it against their database, and by that time it's gone from the pawn shop.

So it should be pretty safe to buy a guitar from a pawn shop, if you're worried about having to return it if it is found to be stolen. On the other hand, if you're worried about having someone else's guitar that was stolen from them, you might want to find a more traditional outlet.

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 04:55 AM

Here in Sydney, the police go around asking the pawn brokers if they have a certain item. If he says, "no", they don't go any further, but go to another shop.

Recently a Sydney violinist had a multi-thousand dollar violin stolen. The police found it in a pawn shop and suggested to the violinist that she pay the pawn broker what he paid the theif. Otherwise the pawn broker will never admit to having the stolen items.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 07:34 AM

THIEVES carry stolen instruments, pawn shops only sell them.

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I bought a van from a rather shady character on the recomendation of a friend. What did I know? I was young, I wanted a van, and it was a good deal.

About a year later the state police caught up with me and I spent a day in their headquarters answering questions producing papers, and waiting while they took my van apart to read any and all serial numbers they could find.

The results of their investigations must have been inconclusive for they let me keep the van and let me go. The "dealer" I bought it from had disappeared by the next time I went into that town but that was several years later and proves nothing. I had some rather strong words with my friend. He acknowledged that some of the deals at that place were too good to be true.

The end result of this little story is to be very careful when offered a good deal on anything. If you buy stolen property and the police manage to retrieve it for the owner then you will be out of luck. You will not get your money back and you will not have the item either.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 07:26 PM

Thanks for the info everybody.

David, I've brought up my guitar search on some other threads, so I won't get into it here. Thanks anyway.

Marion


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 11:45 PM

Marion, over the last couple of decades I've bought scores of musical instruments at auction and from pawn shops and I've never encountered any legal problems. Many of these purchases have been for friends or children of friends who didn't know what to look for in banjoes, clarinets, flutes, saxophones, double basses etc. I love the thrill of the chase, but because I never charge a commission I certainly never want to pass on bad title to a good friend. On the other hand I rarely buy from ads in newspapers - chances are they won't be there next week.

Good luck with your purchase. Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: okthen
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 04:29 AM

this is the origin IMO of "on the fiddle"

person A takes a violin into a pawn shop and gets a loan for it, a little later person B turns up either with the police or proof that it is his property and emands the goods back.

think that's the origin

cheers

bill


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,Lindsay
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 09:53 AM

Well, it appears that our pawn shops here must be better regulated that elsewhere. In addition to the class ring my daughter lost, police recovered a very expensive violin, when a pawn shop notified them of it's appearance on their counter. Admittedly, our pawn shops are in a continual battle for their existance. Every year, another community comes up with a vote on whether to allow them to continue to do business. I suspect that makes them want to be models of propiety.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Jon W.
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 10:22 AM

I bought my first banjo from another at a pawnshop. My only fear is that the pawnbroker will break into my house and leave two more banjos beside the one he sold me.(G) Seriously, when I went to a pawnshop to sell a guitar (in trade for a better one), they not only took my name and address, but also my thumbprint. If they treat everyone they buy from the same as they treated, it would be difficult for a thief to fence stolen goods there.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:01 AM

Friend of mine had his flute stolen, imagine his surprise, whilst out and about the local junk shops and pawn broker type shops in the city. When he came across his flute being sold for £20.

When it was worth in reality somewhere in the region of £500+!!!

He quickly phoned the police, and I think the offending person was caught too... due to the shop owner having contacts for the person who had given it to him to sell for him.

But couldn't believe just how lucky my pal was, especially in such a big city!

Ella


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Fortunato
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:11 AM

Marion,

Two of my son's guitars were stolen from his truck and turned up the next day in a local pawnshop around the corner from where he worked. A fellow employee spotted them in the window. The thieves had been videotaped when pawning them and were caught. This was in a Maryland suburb of Washington, DC.

On the other hand, Norman Blake tells the story of how he found his pre-war Martin in a pawnshop.

Regards, Chance.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:39 AM

One I remeber involved a 5 string banjo. One of the organisers of the North Wales (Conwy) Blue Grass Festival had his Grover stolen during the event. It turned up at a pawn shop or perhaps a second hand shop in Liverpool a few weeks later, I believe for £100 - It would have been quite a buy for somebody!

I think I would always be suspicious if I saw something of that obvious quality going so cheaply and I guess many shops are careful - I had a friend with a music shop who certainly checked up if he thought someone could be trying to pass on stolen property.

In the case I mentioned, the person had a number of contacts all round the country and there were lots of people keeping an eye out for what is not the most common of instruments. As I remember, it was a friend of his that saw it and took action immediately.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:50 AM

I have heard it mentioned both on this website and elsewhere that a lot of stolen instruments seem to end up at Cash Converters, if anyone has an instrument stolen, it is worth regulary checking your local branch.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 03:57 PM

A lot of pawn brokers sell instruments cheaply simply because they do not know the value of them and it's too difficult or time consuming to find out. To a jeweller, one fiddle looks just like another, I daresay your average musician couldn't tell the difference between diamonds and paste.

Bargains are not always knock-offs, but it is always worth double checking the provenance of such instruments, particularly if it looks like it's been well used. A well used instrument is more likely to have been purloined than an old, dusty, disused or broken one.

And if any burglars want to have a go at our 7 melodeons, I'll leave the window open again...... (joke!!)

LTS


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 05:54 PM

UK law is specific - if it is stolen YOU give it back.
If the pawn shop gave you a receipt you could in theory sue them. The police would be interested too. The pawn shop should keep records if they had it in pawn in order for the owner to redeem it, but if they bought it outright they may not.
I think you takes yer chances, and plays safe with a bit of assurance from the local constabulary.
If it is cheap enough then the discount is sort of a hedge against the worst case scenario.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: toadfrog
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 06:14 PM

A standard practice is for police to offer pawnbrokers a reward for turning in stolen goods. I very much doubt any pawnbroker would knowingly sell you a stolen guitar -- not in the U.S., anyway.

A dishonest pawnbroker is more likely to sell you a new guitar, sold as "used," at a price higher than it would cost elsewhere. Pawnshops are not a particularly good place to find bargains. Not in my experience, anyway. (It was different in the 1950's before the acoustic guitar revival.)


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: leprechaun
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 01:14 AM

I suggest keeping a very good record of all the valuable things you own that somebody might steal. Include serial numbers, owner applied numbers, unique marks or damage, and you might even consider a video recording. Engrave the thing yourself in two places, one obvious, and one hidden. Whether it's a bicycle, electronics, jewelry or musical instrument, if the police can't prove it's yours, you won't get it back. In our area, if you can provide the serial number of a stolen item, it is entered in the computer very soon after it is reported stolen. That way if it crosses the path of a a cop or pawn shop owner, they can tell instantly with a computer check what the status is. Without a unique identifying number or description, it's nearly impossible to link back to its original owner.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 01:57 AM

I've purchased several items at Pawn...which COULD have been hot.

Whether they are HOT or not....is not the question....the other senario is worse: someone in misery was desperate enough to temporarily separeate themselves from a cherished/treasured posession with the INTENT of returning and REDEEMING IT again in a better day.

IF you had the TRUE soul of CHARITY....you would pay the fee...and request that the item be returned to its original owner.

If the issue is profiting at another's misfortune - why split straws.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 10:34 AM

My grandfather's violin, which my son plays, could not be found in the orchestra room after a weekend music competition, and we thought it was stolen. When I filed a police report, they told me that about half of what is in pawn shops is stolen, and the instrument was probably pawned right away, possibly in another town. Luckily, the violin was found in the school, where it had been moved and misplaced during all the events of the judging and performances. The police information gave me a new perspective about buying from pawn shops.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,Bubba
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 06:32 PM

check out http://www.geocities.com/texas_archtops/ this cats got some nice used guitars at pretty good prices. Bubba


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 08:13 PM

You are generally safe buying at a pawnshop. The police regularly check, and licensed pawnshop dealers keep careful watch.
Are there stolen items in the pawnshop? Yes, but if they were not identified in the period of consignment, the police long before would have told the owner to forget recovery and collect the insurance (usual with bicycles, the average home music equipment, tools, etc.). Insurance companies won't bother if a bought item is identified as stolen unless it is worth a lot of money. The costs of going through the recovery process are too great.
If you buy in Quebec, or any area preserving the French Civil Code, the buyer, if he bought from a licensed dealer, is assumed to have bought in good faith and must be reimbursed if the original owner wants the item back. Repossession would be very unlikely.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Willie-O
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 09:14 AM

Well, the answer could be this and could be that, caveat emptor as always. What I want to know is why are you shopping for a new guitar Marion? Fielding told me you just bought a Taylor, considerable step up from the Seagull.

Oh no--you're getting the dreaded GAS!!!! (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) That being the case, you won't find anything you like in a pawnshop. Not likely there's one in there that is better than what you've got already.

Frankly, with your devotion to developing your playing skills, you are already out of pawnshop-guitar territory. (Although a Taylor would look funny at Black Creek Pioneer Village)

Please explain yourself. Maybe start another new thread, dear.

Best
Willie-O


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: 53
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 01:45 PM

I don't think that all instruments are stolen but I know that they do have some and they are supposed to be cooperating with the police in the handling of stolen goods. Bob


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Marion
Date: 10 Jun 02 - 12:51 AM

Willie-O:

Maybe check the dates, darling.

Cheers, Marion


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 08:26 AM

Not just pawn shops, but regular music shops too (in UK).


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 08:40 AM

Marion: One point that hasn't been made yet is that, with any used instrument purchase, you lose the advantage of having a warranty on future repairs to the instrument. Unless there's a specific antique or classic guitar that you have your eye on, I'd advise you to focus on finding the best deal for a new model with a lifetime warranty. It'll be a bargain in the long run.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: HuwG
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 09:19 AM

"Cash Converters" have been mentioned before in this thread. Just to give them a slight pat on the back, the branch where I bought a mint condition Yamaha FG-340 (Stockport) always ring a nearby music shop (Dawson's) whenever anyone brings in a musical instrument to check on its value. I presume they give full details, including make, model, serial number, distinguishing marks or features, if any. They are therefore doing their best to publish anything about an instrument which might identify it as "hot".

I can't see a reputable concern such as this knowingly or recklessly accepting goods which might have been stolen.

The second-hand shop in Central Manchester, where I rescued a very battered classical guitar from the top of a pile of mucky magazines for £10 is probably a very different concern.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 10:14 AM

Well I know pawn shop detail cops try their best to keep things under control and as noted above pawnshop owners must be careful. Receiving stolen goods can carry serious jail time. "flea" markets and resale shops, on the other hand can sometimes have stolen items. I once bought a guitar case for 25 bucks (hardshell) and the guy asked if I wanted the guitar too, He "threw it in" because it was "crummy and made with cheap pegs and plastic strings" Turns out is was an older Ramirez, "flamenco" guitar made by the famed luthier himself. It had been stolen from a local Chicago "flamencista" about a year before. He had paid $850 (this was in 1963!) I gave it back to him and he stiffed me, after he had promised to pay me the $25 I was out! Well I was charitable, considering it a cheap lesson. Like the old saying if you "loan someone twenty bucks and they don't pay you back then that was all their friendship was worth!"

CB


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: simon-pierre
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 07:42 PM

I found my stolen CDs in a pawn shop three months after the robbery... there was more or less 8 left out of a hundred. To me, it's all a bunch of crooks.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Marion
Date: 11 Jun 02 - 07:49 PM

Hey Willie-O: when I read it in broad daylight, my last post seems a little snarkier than was strictly necessary.

This thread is actually from the pre-Seagull era, and feels like ancient history to me. And I'm certainly not turning into a collector; I sold the Seagull, and unless something bad happens to my Taylor, I'm not planning on doing any more guitar shopping for the rest of my life. If I look silly playing it at a pioneer village, I think I can live with that. Next purchase will be a fiddle pick-up. Anyway, thanks for your input.

Marion


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 10:20 AM

My uncle had a music store in the 70's, died in early 90's. Some new guitars and stuff were just left there for years and some of it was stolen after he died. Saw an obviously new/old les paul in a pawn shop shortly after but serial # records had been lost. Interestingly enough the thieves didn't take the vintage microphones. And for the remark about jews, wish you were where i could get my hands on you.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 08:17 AM

wow I missed THAT one truckerdave! (wotta creep! reminds me of Dr. Laura)

CB


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Willie-O
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 09:21 AM

Not at all, Marion, just gave myself a dope slap. These interrupted conversations...sometimes I'm answering a remark I made two years ago.

Long as you can get it by the "authenticity police", play whatever guitar makes you happy, wherever and whenever possible!

Bill


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,bassman
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 09:30 PM

I had an slightly off subject question. I had a really expensive bass stolen over 2 years ago. But by chance I found it in a pawnshop about 3 weeks ago and I'm currently waiting to get it back from the police. I have since been paid off by my insurance to get a new instrument (about $6,000) and I was wondering if since my bass has been returned will I have to pay my insurance for the replacement bass? Will I have to turn over my original bass? Any help would be useful


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 10:22 PM

Since we don't know what country you are in or who your insurance company is, I suggest that you just go ask your agent. Seems to be the best possible answer to your question.

If you don't report this to your insurance it might come back to haunt you later.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 11:28 PM

Sorcha is right, report it to your agent. This applies with regard to the insurance on any stolen item that is restored to the owner (US and Canada except Quebec). You may have to decide which one you want if the insurance company demands repayment of compensation.

I exclude Quebec because some of their statutes differ and I don't know just how; there have been problems with regard to articles "bought in good faith" in Quebec but stolen in other provinces.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 11:47 PM

English law.

1. Nemo dat quod non habet. Te property in the stolen item remains in the owner. He is therefore entitled to it back from any subsequent possessor. He may of course have to sue to get it.

2. For the same reason, since the subsequent possessor derives no title, there was a total failure of consideration in the contract by which he acquired it, and he is entitled the return of any sum paid. If he can find the seller to him. He may of course have to sue to get it.

3. When an insurer pays out a loss, he is subrogated to the rights of the original owner so the lost item then belongs to the insurer. It no longer belongs to the insured. It is up to the insurer if he wants to sell the item back to the insured and for how much.

I got a really good deal out of point 3 when I was flooded. I had a "new for old" policy. I had bought a 12-channel Yamaha powered mixing desk for £100. It got wet in the flood. Loss adjusters said it was beyond economic repair. Insurers paid me out for the nearest new Yamaha poewred mixing desk of equivalent specification (12 mic channels) - £1,000. I bought the old one back off insurers as scrap - £50.   Guess what - it worked perfectly and I could find and have for 4 years continued to find NO sign of flood damage at all!!!


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 08:45 AM

If you were to turn the recovered instrument in to the insurance company you'd avoid any legal risks, and you'd probably be able to buy it back from them at auction for peanuts. This is, of course, assuming the insurance company has some mechanism in place to let you know when and where it will be auctioned. Talk to your agent.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,bassman
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 02:49 PM

Thanks for the advise. The bass was stolen in Nevada and found in Nevada. Since the insurance cancelled my policy shortly after the payout. Will that make a difference. I guess State Farm is not the best about wanting to pay out their renters insurance.


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Subject: do pawn shops tell you who pawned your stolen item
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 10:19 PM

do pawn shops tell you who pawned your stolen item


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 02:28 AM

Well, I think the usual practice is that the pawnshops tell the police. I've known a number of police departments to have a "pawn shop detail," officers whose duty it is to keep tabs on the merchandise that goes through pawn shops.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 10:42 AM

I think y'all are letting the tail wag the dog.

The number of dumb, lazy people in this world far exceeds the number of bold, organized thieves. Any instrument in a pawn shop is more likely to be there because somebody didn't want to practice than because somebody stole it.

Instead of worrying about the small percentage of guitars which might be stolen, you should be worrying about the broken-hearted guitars which are hanging by their necks, longing for someone to rescue them and love them.

You and those guitars could make beautiful music together.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 11:14 AM

Most people who pawn musical instruments, or anything else of much value, rarely have a receipt or bill of sale proving ownership. The pawn shop owner in most jurisdictions is required to be "reasonable and prudent" in accepting items, but that may not mean a lot. A really honest one will probably check the serial number against a list of known stolen items from the local police. I had a Takamine classical guitar that I really liked stolen from a church a few years ago. It eventually turned up in a pawn shop and was reported, but was in bad shape and not worth reclaiming - plus, I had already replaced it.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: john f weldon
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 12:34 PM

Quebec Law is far more crook-friendly than English Common Law. True tale:

A friend returned home to find his window broken (and bloody), and everything "loose" missing. His wife phoned the cops and he wandered up to the local pawn shop, just a block away. There was his stuff, fresh on the counter.

The owner freely admitted that he'd just bought it all, from a guy with a bleeding hand wrapped in a hanky! The cops came, and told him his only options was to buy his own stuff back from the pawn broker. The pawn broker gave him a good deal, only a small markup. After all, he had "turned around" the goods in only a half-hour!


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: romany man
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 02:01 PM

our local pawn shop was raided six weeks ago, most of the stock was on the police stolen list, i only know as a mate of mine is working on the case, and yes they are a well known chain, and have been there for over seven years that i know of, the old saying buyer beware rings loud and true, ya pays ya money, ya takes ya chance


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: john f weldon
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 12:38 AM

I'm reviving this because of a recent news item. (Montreal)

The McGill University Music Department has been robbed seven (yes seven!!!) times in the last four months! Dozens of instruments were stolen. Almost all the instruments turned up in nearby pawn shops.

So yes, in Montreal, if you purchase an instrument from a pawn shop, the chances of it being stolen are very high.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 01:12 AM

Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?

Does a bear . . . .


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,KC
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 09:17 PM

Mine doesn't carry anything stolen. Thats not to say stolen items haven't came across our counter, but we work hand in hand with the Titusville (FLA) Police and Brevard County Sheriffs Department. A record is emailed at the end of each business day. And on the rare occasion that a stolen item is pawned or sold, the thief always gets caught.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:23 AM

It appears that pawn shops in my locale are required to submit lists of all items received in pawn to the local police.

An acquaintance reports that "her pawnbroker" claims to have been sternly lectured about using appropriately descriptive entries when he listed her wooden crucifix (with holy water contained therein) as "hippy on a stick."

It appears they sent someone in to check it out.

John


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 12:18 PM

Out of the service and back in college on the G.I. Bill, I once sold my high school ring to make a down payment on a Martin D-28 in 1967. Now, both are gone. Most folks never wear their high school rings after graduation, so I felt it was a good move at the time. The ultimate choice was giving up the guitar a couple of years later when my company went belly up and we had a baby on the way. I have had many others since, but I would dearly love to have that D-28 back. No regrets, however.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: reggie miles
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 02:23 PM

Someone stole a guitar of mine and it ended up being sold in a local pawn shop. The only way that I got it back was due to my having made a police report of the loss. The police said that if I discovered the guitar in the possession of another, that they would confiscate it from that person and return it to me. It seems that the person who tried to sell it, via a local paper, had purchased it from the pawn shop unaware that it was stolen. Someone pointed me to the ad.

So, yes, pawn shops do sell stolen merchandise. I was directed by police to contact all of the local pawn shops in the area and I did that same morning that my guitar disappeared. The pawn shop that sold my guitar was one that I visited that morning but he denied having purchased it. (Scumbag!) I never did find out who took it. We had to threaten to take legal action before the pawn shop would refund 'most' of the money to the guy who bought it, in good faith, from him.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 09:21 PM

I honestly think craigslist and ebay are far more of a problem. Nobody really checks them when they buy or sell. I know of a guy that had his Martin stolen. He found it advertised on craigslist and called the police suspecting that the guitar was his and it was.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 09 - 08:27 PM

I haven't got any receipts for any of my instruments, so far as I know. I can't even remember where I got most of them, I just know I didn't steal them.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Jun 09 - 10:06 AM

In Los Angeles pawnshops are heavily regulated. The vice and robbery divisions check their paperwork regularly...at least that was the policy when my cousin had his shop in Venice for over 20 years.

The police would let him know when traceable items had been stolen. He would notify them if he thought an item was hinky. He had such a good relationship with the police, that when he had a heart attack, during his recuperation off-duty officers would help his wife keep the business going.

That said, are all pawn brokers scrupulous? Probably not, but most are or they don't stay in business.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:03 PM

Lessons to be learned include photocopying any proof of purchase or appraisal of a valuable musical instrument, photographing instrument in question, and considering rental insurance or listing it on your homeowners insurance policy.

Of course no thief in his or her right mind would steal one of my banjos. That doesn't happen, fortunately, in the real world. People just make jokes about them.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:49 PM

In my early and very naive 20's I lived in a large apartment with a lot of different people, and we were in the habit of taking in "strays." One day those of us who were permanent and local residents came home from our assorted jobs to find one of the "strays" who had been with us for about 8 weeks (and who was a wonderful cook and cleaned up the house for us while we were at at work, etc., etc.) had disappeared with one of our cars, the expensive stereo system, my boyfriend's Les Paul, and a small PA system.

The police found the car a couple of days later in Huntington, about 60 miles from where we lived in Charleston. At the suggestion of the police, my boyfriend and I cruised the pawn shops in Huntington and soon saw his Les Paul displayed in the window of a downtown pawn shop. Fortunately for my boyfriend, he had the serial number of his guitar on file and could prove it was his. We don't think the pawnshop owner had knowingly accepted stolen goods, but since he had put out money for it, he was very reluctant to return it, and without clear proof that the Les Paul was Michael's, we would never have gotten it back.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:52 PM

Janie--

Having proof of what one has lost is essential.

Nice that your friend got his instrument back.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 02:58 PM

Is there any way to track down a stolen instrument that you may think was pawned?


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,Shawna
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 02:59 PM

Is there any way to track down my guitar if it was stolen and pawned? I have the original rec.?


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 10:13 PM

Pawn Slips and Library Cards a treasure trove of signatures.

I owed a man 2,000 dollars.

He took my banjo for the debt unpaid.

A little down the road

In his little hick town.

Six months later I bought it back again.

200 dollars - debt was paid.

Hock Shops are good for musicians and magicians

Anyone but the physician...they have scruples about scaples.

Yeah,


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 11:08 PM

I thought the stories were that thieves would break in and leave extra banjos.


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Subject: RE: Do pawn shops carry stolen instruments?
From: GUEST,Lauren
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 02:08 PM

In Florida we are currently trying to bring a bill to the Legilature that would require the pawnshop to take a digital image of certain item(s) that are pawned/ sold and in addition to the identifying information required by Florida law we a proposing they add a digital image of the person pawning/ selling the item (s). All of this information is then to be uploaded to a statewide database, which only the law enforcement have access to, at the end of each business day. To read more about our proposed changes and to sign the petition to support our cause go to www.kathleenscause.com. All of this was started after my mother-in-law was murdered on August 3, 2009 and we found out how arduous a task police have when trying to go from pawnshop to pawnshop to locate stolen goods.


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