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Lyr Req: Run, Nigger, Run

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GUEST,Sule Greg Wilson 03 Jan 01 - 10:40 PM
Abby Sale 03 Jan 01 - 11:53 PM
mousethief 04 Jan 01 - 12:17 AM
Bullytanana 04 Jan 01 - 01:51 AM
Abby Sale 04 Jan 01 - 06:09 PM
Uncle_DaveO 04 Jan 01 - 08:51 PM
GUEST,Sule Greg Wilson 04 Jan 01 - 11:30 PM
Extra Stout 05 Jan 01 - 01:26 AM
GUEST,fox4zero 05 Jan 01 - 05:32 AM
raredance 05 Jan 01 - 04:46 PM
raredance 05 Jan 01 - 05:02 PM
Extra Stout 05 Jan 01 - 10:36 PM
raredance 05 Jan 01 - 10:46 PM
Naemanson 06 Jan 01 - 09:45 AM
raredance 06 Jan 01 - 04:45 PM
Uncle_DaveO 06 Jan 01 - 05:23 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 20 Sep 01 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,jack 20 Sep 01 - 07:28 PM
LR Mole 21 Sep 01 - 10:21 AM
wysiwyg 21 Sep 01 - 12:16 PM
chip a 21 Sep 01 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 22 Sep 01 - 02:04 AM
wysiwyg 22 Sep 01 - 02:09 AM
Stewie 22 Sep 01 - 02:53 AM
Joe Offer 22 Sep 01 - 03:37 AM
masato sakurai 22 Sep 01 - 12:33 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 22 Sep 01 - 01:16 PM
wysiwyg 22 Sep 01 - 01:37 PM
katlaughing 22 Sep 01 - 01:40 PM
Big Mick 22 Sep 01 - 01:46 PM
wysiwyg 22 Sep 01 - 02:18 PM
katlaughing 22 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM
Murray MacLeod 22 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM
Big Mick 22 Sep 01 - 06:09 PM
Big Mick 22 Sep 01 - 06:52 PM
katlaughing 22 Sep 01 - 07:20 PM
Big Mick 22 Sep 01 - 08:27 PM
wysiwyg 23 Sep 01 - 12:00 AM
katlaughing 23 Sep 01 - 12:30 AM
wysiwyg 23 Sep 01 - 12:47 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 23 Dec 01 - 12:00 AM
Rolfyboy6 23 Dec 01 - 01:18 AM
masato sakurai 23 Dec 01 - 04:08 AM
GUEST,Bud 23 Dec 01 - 07:18 AM
Oversoul 23 Dec 01 - 08:26 AM
wysiwyg 23 Dec 01 - 09:17 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 23 Dec 01 - 11:48 AM
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Subject: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: GUEST,Sule Greg Wilson
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 10:40 PM

Hey; I picked out the melody on my 'jo from a book. When I asked John Jackson about the words...he just laughed; wouldn't repeat 'em. Can anybody help? Answer @ suleness@aol.com

Originally, After the Nat Turner War, the song was by blacks for blacks, signaling that "pattyroller'll get you" (an alternate name, I think). The song was taken up by Euro minstrels, and made derogatory. Thanks!


Click for related thread


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Abby Sale
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 11:53 PM

Good tune & interesting song. Many titles - "Run, Nigger Run," "Run, Jimmie, Run," "The Pateroller Song," "Fire on the Mountain" (esp for the tune), "Run, Slave, Run." Refers to escaping the patrols after Nat Turner's Revolt of 1832. See Lomax Amer. Ballads & F S, p228. Per Rinzler, also as "Pateroller Song." Randolph published references back to 1852. Per Lomax: from 1832 "Negroes were put under special restriction to home quarters and patrolmen appointed to keep them in."

"Run, Jimmie, Run" and also "Fire on the Mountain" are on the CD of Original Folkways Recordings of Doc Watson & Clarence Ashley, Smith/Folkways & also see minstrel show skit http://memory.loc.gov "America Singing: Nineteenth-Century Song Sheets."


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 12:17 AM

Is this the song/melody, then, that is mentioned in "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" in the line

Fire in the mountains, run boys run

?

Alex


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Bullytanana
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 01:51 AM

"Run Slave Run" can be heard on HEDY WEST's Vanguard VRS-9162 Volume 2. 1964


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Abby Sale
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 06:09 PM

Gee, I like Hedy's work. Yes, that's a good one. (Waiting patiently, we is, for the new CDs.) I've never been entirely sure, though, if the word "slave" here didn't get substituted in to the song much lateer.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 08:51 PM

For whatever it's worth, Leadbelly was not above singing this as "Run, Nigger, Run."

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: GUEST,Sule Greg Wilson
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 11:30 PM

Well, Folks: I'm excited! Thanks for the leads! DaveO: do you have a citation for Leadbelly's version? There's a "Patteyroller'll Get You on "Altamont: Black Stringband Music" from the Library of Congress. I think that's the same melody I got from John Burke's old time song book. I've been asked to do a presentation re the Underground Railroad, and I figger that one'll be a good song to do. Kinda put stuff in context, you might say....


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Subject: Lyr Add: RUN, NIGGER, RUN
From: Extra Stout
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 01:26 AM

RUN, NIGGER, RUN^^

CHORUS: Run, nigger, run, or the pattaroller get you,
Run, nigger, run, you gotta get away.

VERSES: Some folks say a nigger won't steal,
I caught three in my cornfield.

Nigger run and he run so fast,
Stove in his head on a hornet's nest.

Nigger sayin' "Don't catch me,
Catch the nigger behind that tree."

I don't remember any more of it than that. Not much call for it. I learned it from a record of The North (or maybe South) Carolina Skillet Lickers. It was a re-issue LP, years ago, label unremembered. Be careful if you sing this out loud.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: GUEST,fox4zero
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 05:32 AM

Uncle Dave Macon recorded this in the 1930's, preceded with an apology for the language. The reissue is still around I believe. Larry


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Subject: Lyr Add: RUN, CHILLUN, RUN and RUN, NIGGER, RUN
From: raredance
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 04:46 PM

A "nicer" version can be found in Ruth Crawford Seeger's "American Folk Songs for Children." (1948). Mike & Peggy Seeger recorded the songs from the book for Rounder Records ( I think it was 3 LPs and later 2CDs). The second version listed here is from "Negro Folk Rhymes" by Thomas W. Talley ( 1929, revised & annotated version 1991 University of Tennessee Press). Uncle Dave Macon original recording was in 1925 (Vocalion 15032). There was another early recording by Dr. Humphrey Bate in 1928 (Brunswick 275)
^^
RUN, CHILLUN, RUN

Run, chillun, run, the paterroller catch you,
Run, chillun, run, It's almost day.
Run, chillun, run, the paterroller catch you,
Run, chillun, run, It's almost day.

That child ran, that child flew,
that child lost his Sunday shoe.

Jumped the fence and ran through the pasture,
First ran slow and then he ran faster.

Let me tel you what I'll do,
I'm going to find me a Sunday shoe.

Let me tell you where I'll be,
I'm going to hide behind that tree.

^^
RUN, NIGGER, RUN

Run, Nigger, run! De Patter-rollers ketch you.
Run, Nigger, run! It's almos'day.

Dat Nigger run'd, dat Nigger flew,
Dat Nigger tore his shu't in two.

All over dem woods and frou de paster,
Dem Patter-rollers shot; but de Nigger git faster,

Oh, dat Nigger whirl'd, dat Nigger wheel'd,
Dat Nigger tore up de whole co'n field.

rich r


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Subject: ADD Version: RUN, NIGGER, RUN
From: raredance
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 05:02 PM

There are several versions in the Frank C Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore. The refrain is pretty much the same in all. The "almost day" line has become "you'd better get away" in one variant and "you'd better be a-runnin'" in another. Below are some of the other verses that were collected.
^^
RUN, NIGGER, RUN

As I went down the new-cut road
I met a possum and a toad;
And every time the toad did jump
The possum hid behind a stump.

I went to the railroad track,
Hitched an engine to my back,
Combed my head with an engine wheel;
It gave me the headache in my heel.

Snake & hornet verses:
AS I jumped over in the harvest field
A black snake struck me on my heel,
I run myself so nigh to death
I stuck my head in a hornet's nest.

I went through the farmer's field,
The black snake bit me on my heel.
I jumped up and run my best,
Stuck my head in a hornet's nest.

Nigger tried to cross the field,
Black snake struck him on the heel,
Nigger tried to do his best
And stuck his head in a hornet's nest.

rich r


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Extra Stout
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 10:36 PM

Or maybe it was the Tarheels.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: raredance
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 10:46 PM

Now, them could be fightin' words.

rich r


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Subject: Lyr Add: RUN, NIGGER, RUN
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:45 AM

I have been ignoring this thread for a few reasons but this morning I found the answer. Yesterday my sister gave me a copy of B. A. Botkin's Treasury Of American Folklore published in 1944. This song, with melody, is listed in there on page 906. The song was originally published in Slave Songs Of The United States in 1867. Slave Songs Of The United States was written by William Francis Allen, Charles Pickard Ware, and Lucy McKim Garrison. At that time the only words known were as follows:

O Some tell me that a nigger won't steal,
But I've seen a nigger in my cornfield,
O run, nigger, run, for the patrol will catch you,
O run, nigger, run, for 'tis almost day


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Subject: Lyr Add: RUN, NIGGER, RUN
From: raredance
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 04:45 PM

Naemanson, you are quite right about the antiquity of this song. Virtually all of the sources indicate that it is a song the came out of the slavery era. The Allen,Ware & Garrison book may well be the first publication of this song. Their book was reprinted in 1929, but I do not know if it has been reprinted more recently. It is unusual for a 19th century book of what are mostly folk songs in that it has a printed melody line for all 136 songs. Allen et al. also contains a version of "Michael Row the Boat Ashore" with more than 25 one line "verses".

A very unusual version of RNR is found in "On the Trail of Negro Folk-songs" by Dorothy Scarborough (1925). The typical RNR chorus bookends a religious song "Most Done Lingerin' Here". The latter has a totally different melody. It's in her book twice, she reports hearing it in Kentucky from an old man on the street, and she also received a copy from someone in Louisiana. Scarborough offers no comments on the curious medley. The Kentucky version is included below.
^^
RUN, NIGGER, RUN

Run, nigger run, de patterroller get you,
Run nigger run, it's almost day.
Dat nigger ryun, Dat nigger flew,
Dat nigger tore his shirt in two.
Run, nigger run, de patterroller get you,
Run nigger run, it's almost day.

If you get there before I do,
'Most done ling'rin' here;
Look our for me, I am comin', too
'Most done ling'rin' here;

CHORUS:
I'm goin' away, goin' away,
I'm 'most done ling'rin' here;
I'm goin' away to Galilee,
And I'm 'most done ling'rin' here.

I have hard trials on my way
'Most done ling'rin' here;
But still King Jesus hears me pray,
'Most done ling'rin' here;

rich r


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 05:23 PM

GUEST Sule Greg Wilson:

I first heard this song fifty years ago, in the music library at the University of Minnesota, I believe on Library of Congress recordings. Leadbelly, and he sang "Run, NIGGER, Run." This thread was the first time I ever was aware of anyone changing the N word to anything else in this song.

I just MIGHT have it by Leadbelly on a Folkways recording too, but I'm not sure. I'll try to dig out the 10 inch LP and see.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 05:00 PM

Tanner and The Skillet Lickers did an "Appalachian" version about 1929; Asch issued it. It is in the Smithsonian Collection. Rich r's Kentucky version with the interesting gospel or spiritual add-on perhaps should be split with the last part on a separate thread; someone may be able to add to it.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: GUEST,jack
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 07:28 PM

I learned it from a record of The North ( or maybe South ) Carolina Skillet Lickers. It was a re- issue LP, years ago, label unremembered. Be careful if you sing this out loud. Extra Stout, I've never heard of the North (or south)Carolina Skillet Lickers,maybe just the Skillet Lickers, and they did record the song in question. The Skillet Lickers' County 526 has a version sung by Riley Puckett.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: LR Mole
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:21 AM

I remember a choral thing we sang in primary school, the refrain to which was "Way down, way down, way down yonder in the corn field". It featured the line "Some folks say that a Tramp won't steal/But I caught a couple in my corn field." The Tramp was a real figure of terror in the rural 19th century, because they were frequently tradeless and desperate veterans. I wonder when "nigger" changed to "tramp", or whether it was always code.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:16 PM

It's odd living close enough to the history of these songs that, theoretically, we COULD know how songs migrated and changed... but we don't!

~S~


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: chip a
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:53 PM

County 526, Gid Tanner & the Skillet Lickers. A re-isue of some great old Skillet Lickers stuff from the late 20's on. This ain't the best song to sing around others but it's history is interesting and the tune with a little tinkering with the words is great.

Chip A.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 02:04 AM

I can't believe it is necessary to keep repeating that word for reasons of scholarship or whatever. There must be a way around this. mg


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 02:09 AM

MG, there is no easy answer. I may ask for a name change in this thread-- had thought of it before actually--- to become:

Spiritual: "Run, Nigger, Run"

It would at least make it clear we aren't bandying the word around lightly. But that IS the title of the song.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Stewie
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 02:53 AM

Mole, quite often the reference was to 'preacher'. As the butt of folk humour, the 'preacher' was substituted for the 'nigger' of the minstrel show.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 03:37 AM

Sorry, MG. It's part of history, and I don't think it would be right to euphemize it. The thread title will remain unchanged.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: masato sakurai
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 12:33 PM

The earliest citation of the phrase "Virginia reel" in A Dictionary of American English (1938-44) and A Dictionary of Americanisms (1956) is: "One of the favourite Virginia reels is, 'Fire in the mountains, run, boys, run'" from Paulding, Lett. from South I. 151 (1817). This song is much earlier than "Run, Nigger, Run!" in Allen et al.'s Slave Songs of the United States (1867, p. 89). Opie's The Singing Game (1985, p. 318) comments on "Fire on the Mountains," saying: "The song itself has roots both in Britain and America. In a nursery book, Mother Goose's Quarto, published in Boston about 1825, appears the verse:

Hogs in the garden, catch 'em Towser;
Cows in the corn-field, run, boys, run;
Cats in the cream-pot, run girls, run girls;
Fire on the mountains, run, boys, run."

"Run, Nigger, Run" may have been a considerable remake of "Run, Boys, Run."

Masato


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:16 PM

Euphemizers and sanitizers be gone, O Lawd!


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:37 PM

This word and this subject has baffled USA-ers everywhere else it has come up. I don't think we should be surprised that we have trouble with it here-- trouble knowing what to do about this word, I mean.

I don't appreciate historic revisionism, sanitizing, making things PC for the sake of PC, etc. The word is the word, and God knows it ought to be talked about. But a thread title that slams one in the gut, IMO, ought to be thought about. Once someone opens this thread, I would hope they find people discussing rationally. But does the thread title potentially arouse so many bad reactions that the rationality is missed entirely? I don't know. I do know, tho, that our African-American membership here is pretty small, and that each of us can only speak for ourselves.

Please keep in mind, BTW, that I am going to be inviting a lot of people from other sites, many of them African-American history folks, to join the ongoing discussion on spirituals. This forum presents a fantastic opportunity for others who love this music, and whose music they feel it is, to discuss material they have posted at their own websites.

So I hope that you can see that I want us to be as clear as possible about our thinking in this thread in particular-- because I may have to explain it thoughtfully.

Thanks,

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:40 PM

Well regardless, it would be nice to see it fall to the bottom. Historical or not, I hate seeing that word near the top almost everyday when I come here. Couldn't the title at least be "Run, N**ger, Run*? Or noted that it is a spiritual as Susan mentioned?

There needs to be some way to designate IN THE TITLE of the THREAD, that it is historical and NOT some contemporary racist thread. I cannot imagine what my son-in-law NOR the people I just invited in here, who are of many colours, will think when they see this one coming up. I doubt they'd even want to stay to understand.

BTW, the only reason I am saying any of this, is I've been dismayed ever since I saw this one come back up and I finally decided to come in and see why.

katECasever


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:46 PM

Good choice, Joe. IMHO, it is never good to sanitize the ugly. I want folks to always see it and be disgusted by it. I am in support, in fact I would be disappointed if it were hidden. And by the way, it smacks me in the face everytime I look at it. As it should.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 02:18 PM

Kat, it's back up because the study of it continues, that's all. Just like any other music thread-- only the title is so disturbing.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM

Yeah, Mick, it smacks people of colour in the face, too! Totally different way, though. Are we to keep it that way so we can continue to be a mostly white-bred/bread website?

Thanks, Susan, I understand that.

Again, the title needs to say something about it being HISTORICAL. Otherwise it is offensive and off-putting and fairly leaps off the page to the eye of anyone who may sensitive to issues of colour.

That's my only point. I am not saying we shouldn't have the song or talk about it, just make it clear in the title.

kat


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM

kat, since you are better placed to know than most, can you state authoritatively just what is the most acceptable appellation from the Afro-American point of view ? I have been told that "people of color" was regarded as a patronizing label, but that information is obviously inacurate. Sorry to put this thread back to the top, perhaps I should have opened a new one.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 06:09 PM

Well said, Murray. I would prefer to hear from black people that they are offended. And I stand by my comment. But thanks for trying, Mom.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 06:52 PM

Wait a minute........Old Mick just reread Kat's position. While I certainly don't feel the need to be chastised, I see her point. She is not asking for it to be taken off the page (Are you?) rather just to have some kind of modifier. I still don't think it is necessary though. Any thoughtful person would pull it up and see what it is about. If they don't take that step at least then I don't think we have to worry about it.

And as far as the patronizing comment, Kat, I would ask you why you haven't invited your many friends "of color" to join in? Maybe that would be a substantive way to make a difference, instead of your rather insulting comment. I would love to hear a person of African descent tell me about this song and how it strikes them historically and in modern times

Mickwhobelievesinansweringinkind


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 07:20 PM

Oh feck. I was NOT going to post this as I didn't want to help keep this at the top. I did answer Murray by PM and received a nice reply, so I think he and I understand one anther. Thanks, Murray.

Mick, I'd written this as a PM, but have decided it needs to be public, despite my misgivings about refreshing this damn thing. Here is what I wrote:

I AM not ASKING that it be removed. I am asking that SOMETHING be put in the title to indicate that it is an historical discussion. Is that so hard to understand? I thought I stated it pretty plainly, twice.

Why don't I invite my friends who are Americans of African descent or my son-in-law or my friends from Africa. I have. They are not interested for the most part, and, if they did see that thread title, I have been assured it would be so offensive they wouldn't bother to open it and see what nice white folks we are.

I have linked this site, just recently, to a site which attracts people from all over the world, of all ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, it was this week, just when that thread title popped up. I am now cringing, hoping that these people who do not know me or the Mudcat, but who may come here, on my recommendation on a website they trust, will understand.

I made what you took to be a rude comment because I felt yours was insensitive and rude about being slapped in the face. We shouldn't need that to remind ourselves not to be racist. I meant exactly what I said.

However, we do have a few members of mixed race and I know of one of them who has thanked me, in the past, for speaking up as they didn't feel comfortable "outing" themselves. I am speaking up for them, the unseen, the ones we never know about, who may come to this site and not immediately discern, as you would have them do, that a thread title really isn't a racial slur.

Is there something wrong with retitling to something along these lines: "Historical Song Discussion: Run, Nigger, Run?"

katmumsanstheironskillet


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 08:27 PM

Well great, kat. Thank you very much for your pedigree. Now let me tell you that there are very many people here who spend every single day of their lives WORKING to correct all sorts of evils, such as racism. I have found that people of whatever color you happen to be referring to at the moment don't need you or anyone else to speak up for them. If it is offensive, they will let you know. But thanks for all your concern on those poor unfortunates behalf. It seems to me that much of the problem faced today comes from acting like what is different about us is more important than what we have in common. I "know" you a long time, katdarling (meant sincerely), and I know that if someone like me pretended to speak for you because you were afraid, you would take that skillet and give 'em a hidin'. That is as opposed to speaking in support of you, which I have done plenty of times. And I did, in my second post, tell you that I understood the distinction, but perhaps you overlooked it in your righteous fury. I just disagree. And I did that initial disagreement without a comment about anyone else's position. I simply supported Joe. Live up to the rules, my friend. People have a right to an opinion every bit as much as you. But when you make a smartassed comment, expect one back. Lord knows that I have gotten skewered more than a few times when I got all full of meself. Enough said by me on this issue. My opinion is known.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Sep 01 - 12:00 AM

Pardon me for interrupting the party, but as I have been doing some things lately with the music of this time period, I think I may have come up with an approach for this thread that will be effective in addressing all concerns. It will reflect the correspondence I have had with people who have been studying this music a lot longer than we have.

Now cut out the bickering and wait till I am awake enough in the morning to deal with it, OK? If you want to see a first draft of what I propose, see me in PM's.

Sheeshe.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Sep 01 - 12:30 AM

Mick said, I have found that people of whatever color you happen to be referring to at the moment don't need you or anyone else to speak up for them. If it is offensive, they will let you know. So, we didn't need the Civil rights marches?

My experience has been different and if I were afraid to speak out, I would certainly welcome someone of your caliber doing so for me. Isn't that what you do, everyday, for the people you represent in the unions; speak up for them?

This is getting too far off from my only and original intent of posting: that is to ask for clarification in the name title.

Susan, thanks. I look forward to your suggestions and this is the last I will say on this, except in PMs.

kat


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Sep 01 - 12:47 AM

OK, I didn't wait; sue me! *G* I decided that hot heads called for prompt action on my part, and I think you will like what I have done.

PART TWO: Slavery-Era Song, 'Run, ======, Run'.

And THAT is the one I will include in the index of links to posted "spirituals" I have been building.

Let's get back to music, and mend the other fences as we come across them, huh?

~Susan


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Subject: Lyr Add: RUN, NIGGER, RUN
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 12:00 AM

N. I. White, in American Negro Folk songs, discusses "Run, Nigger, Run and gives fragmants of several versions. The earliest he found is in White's "Serenaders' Song Book" copyright 1851.

De sun am set- dis nigger am free,
De colored gals he goes to see.
I heard a voice cry, "Run, dad, fetch you!
Run, nigger, run, or de M. P. 'll catch you!"

Chorus and repeat
Run, nigger, run, de M. P.'ll catch you!
Run, nigger, run tum a du daddle da!
"The other stanzas describe mainly the manner of the running."
The song also appears in "Uncle Remus and His Friends, p. 200.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 01:18 AM

This song is fine stark message from Slavery times. The Patrollers enforcing slavery, the fear of slave rebellion, the echos of slave escape or night-time subrosa activity, the 'in group' ironical use of the 'N' word. Only after I lived in the Ghetto did I understand the ironical understated voice in this song. I'm much more bothered by the Victorian white-written 'coon' songs, which contain the 'rationale' for Jim Crow while proclaiming the 'innocence' of their message.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: masato sakurai
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 04:08 AM

See the entry at The Fiddler's Companion (CLICK HERE).
~Masato


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: GUEST,Bud
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 07:18 AM

First read the words to this in Uncle Remus as a boy. Uncle Remus states that Bre'r Rabbit was strutting around very proudly "ez if he wuz de king ob de patter-rollers", which a footnote explains as "patrols" and gives a short history of the practice. Author Joel Chandler Harris gave the following words: Run, nigger, run. Patter-roller ketch you. Run, nigger, run. Hit's almos' day. Oh, please massa, don' ketch me. Ketch dat nigger behime dat tree. He stole money an' I stole none. Put him in de calaboose des' fo' fun. [All quotes are from my ebbing memory] In its historical context it's hard to find anything offensive about it, but considering modern standards and sensitivity, the performer had best change the operative word or sing at his own risk.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Oversoul
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 08:26 AM

Nigger and the Devil playin' Seven-Up, Devil won the hand, But Nigger wouldn't give it up! ...sorry kids, I can't remember the rest. But I can say this, once I was popping this tune off real good on my little banjo and some lady told me to "go back to Saudi Arabia and stay there!"


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 09:17 AM

Folks, it had been hoped that new posts would go to the later thread linked above...

CONTINUE HERE

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 11:48 AM

This thread has a n indexable title, and should be used for postinh now lyrics or pertinent history


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 12:19 PM

Thanks, Susan.

Dicho, as far as I know the followup thread title is also indexable, esp. as there is leeway in what actually gets put in for a title. I, personally, am dismayed to see this title and, only the title, come back to the top, esp. during the holiday season, for all of the reasons I stated previously. It is really painful to see it up there.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 01:10 PM

I think the idea is that when someone makes a Part Two, we simply use it-- for whatever reason it was created.

We are not going to agree on WHY, in this case-- but we CAN agree to move on and use the other thread. We have a RIGHT to post as we wish-- but we can CHOOSE to honor a request from someone without endorsing what we take to be their reason.

Therefore, I am asking, as one friend to another-- please

CONTINUE HERE

and let this link be the last post to bring it back to the top.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Run, Nigger; Run
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Apr 02 - 12:44 PM

Guest Amy has posted the lyrics to the gospel song "Run, Samson, Run" in thread 46271 (Lyr. Req: Run Boy Run), which uses the phrase, "Run Samson run, Delilah's gonna get you,..." Run Samson Run


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