Origins: Whiskey In The Jar

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 03:12 PM

That's perfectly true; but unfortunately they often can't resist sharing those flights of fancy with others, who then repeat fantasy as fact. Makes getting at the real truth far harder than it ought to be when you have to address all that stuff as well as the hard evidence!

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:38 PM

Malcolm,

I understand, and largely agree with, your assertion that "there is nothing to explain, no hidden code."

However, I would assert that it can really help to enhance a singer's performance for him/her to have a "backstory" in which to believe. It can be completely spurious, and no one but the singer need ever know the details, but the intensity and affect of the performance can be strengthened by the singer's ability to project him/herself into some imagined scenario involving the song. And an elaborate explanation (whether false or true) of how and why the lyrics say what they say can provide this for a performer.

I am certainly in favor of making a clear distinction between hard facts and scholarship on the one hand and wild flights of fancy on the other, but I am glad to read about both.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:25 PM

"Whack fo the daddy oh, Whack fo the daddy oh, Whack fo the daddy oh, there's whisky in the jar..."

obviously means the guy is planning to slap his father three times for lying to him and saying there was no whisky left.

What is WRONG with you people who can't understand simple English :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:22 PM

Yeah, Poppagator, I too am in there under my real name. Funny, huh?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:08 PM

Nothing in particular, as we've already mentioned a number of times. It's just there to add a little "local colour" for music hall audiences. Attempts like "Jim"'s to "explain" it are ingenious but lead nowhere; there is nothing to explain, no hidden code. That won't stop people continuing to invent imaginary meanings of their own, of course; but such explanations usually show little knowledge of the song's history.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 10:18 AM

This thread is so old, it contains a post I made under my "real-life" name way back on Christmas Eve 1999, before I became a member and assumed my current fake name. (I don't really understand how the prefix "GUEST" got omitted; I was *not* posting as a member...)

I'm glad to see it reappear. What a great old song! I'm sure we'll never unravel its mysteries (e.g., what in God's name does the chorus have to do with the story told in the verses?)

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 10:10 AM

Jerry Garcia's version comes from Alan Lomax, Folksongs of North America (1960). The ultimate source was Lena Bourne Fish of New Hampshire, recorded by the Warners about 1940.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,jim
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 09:26 AM

Hello folks
have read this thread with interest as I too have been trying to decypher the almost code-like chorus. Just to throw confusion into the mix, it has been suggested to me that the 'whack fo' mi daddy-o' line could relate to the term 'whack' used by the british army in years gone by, meaning the last shot delivered by the commanding officer to those excuted by firing squad (later pinched for the term 'gettin whacked'). This suggestion would indeed fit into the framework if the lyrics were to be taken literally (in terms of highway man folklore / Patrick Fleming etc) as the first verse does sound like the proverbial 'stick-up... Capt Farrell... his money he was a countin'... stand and deliver etc... erm, now i'm talking jibberish... Your thoughts ladies & gentlemen....

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: emjay
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 05:04 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Mark S.
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:51 PM

Greetings to you from New Zealand.

My girlfriend and I were first exposed to this song by the Metallica cover and liked it from the start. I must say I'm amazed to find this thread that still seems to be alive after 7 years! It took quite some finding (Google: "history of" "whisky in the jar" +Gaelic), but what a great discovery.

I was inspired to look into the history of the song while hearing it at 2am on the radio while eating jelly beans in a car park lookout above our coastal town (it really goes to show this song has truly done the rounds and possibly what a strange fellow I am).

The song still receives regular air time on the radio here, mostly in its Thin Lizzy incarnation but I have heard a couple of other covers I cannot identify. One rendition apparently backed by a harpsichord, which struck me as extremely odd but makes sense when you consider the age of the song.

I suspect that it made its way here in the 1960's based on comments I have heard from my mother and grandmother. It does however seem to have lost its reputation as a "knaves" song, being sung and known by almost everyone here at some point.

I never knew that there were any different lyrics and reading these posts really fills in the gaps left by Metalica/Thin Lizzy. Thank you to everyone past and present who have left these tit-bits.

Now I find myself wishing I could hear it performed live as so many have described it on here.

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY IN THE JAR (from Grateful Dead)
From: GUEST,Lorraine
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 08:38 AM

Hey just to throw a spanner in the works,

I found all of the above and another one, by Jerry Garcia from the Grateful Dead(obviously not the original) but the lyrics are completely different to any of the other one, its a really great version him on guitar and David Grisman on Mandolin


right here we go

As I was a-goin' over Gilgarra mountains
I met Colonel Pepper and his money he was counting
I drew forth my pistol and I rattled my sabre
Saying "stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver"

Chorus
Musha ringum duram da
Whack fol de daddy-o
Whack fol de daddy-o
There's whiskey in the jar

The shining yellow coins did sure look bright and jolly
I took the money home and I gave it to my Molly
She promised and she vowed that she never would deceive me
But the devil's in the women for they never can be easy

[chorus]

When I awoke between the hours of six and seven
Guards were standing 'round me in numbers odd and even
I flew to my pistols, but alas I was mistaken
I fired off my pistols and a prisoner was taken

[chorus]

They put me in jail without a judge or jury
For robbing Colonel Pepper in the morning so early
They didn't take my fist so I knocked down the sentry
And I bid a long farewell to that cold penitentiary

[chorus]

Some take delight in fishing and bowling
Others take delight in carriage a-rollin'
I take delight in the juice of the barley
Courting pretty women in the morning so early

[chorus]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The version on So Many Roads is essentially the same, with some minor differences as highlighted below. It fades in as Jerry is singing the chorus, followed by the last verse, (with the first two lines in the wrong order):
[chorus]

Some take delight in the carriage a-rollin'
Others take delight in fishing and bowling
I take delight in the fruit of the barley
Courting pretty women in the morning so early

[chorus]
Jerry then takes the band through the complete song:
As I was a-walkin' over Gilgarra mountains
I met Colonel Pepper and his money he was counting
I fired off my pistols and I rattled my sabre
Saying "stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver"

[chorus]

Them shiny golden coins did sure look bright and jolly
I took the money home and I gave it to my Molly
She promised and she vowed that she never would deceive me
But the devil's in the women and they never can be easy

[chorus]

As I was a-wakin' 'tween the hours of six and seven
Guards were standing 'round my bed in numbers odd and even
I didn't have my pistols so they ... to prison
Da da da da da, da da da da da da da da
[Jerry realises he's got the words wrong!]

[chorus]

They put me in jail without a judge or jury
For ... Colonel Pepper in the morning so early
They didn't take my fist so I knocked down a sentry
And I bid a long farewell to that cold penitentiary

[chorus]

Some take delight in fishing and bowling
Others take delight in the carriage a-rollin'
I take delight in the juice of the barley
Courting pretty women in the morning so early

[chorus]

As I was a-ridin' over Gilgarra mountains
I met Colonel Pepper and his money he was counting
I shot off my pistols and I rattled my sabre
Saying "stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver"

[chorus]

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 06:24 PM

Presumably you've read the thread. We don't know who wrote it (though that information may perhaps turn up one day), but the middle of the 19th century seems likely; though, as stated, it was based on an earlier broadside song (which in turn was based on real events) of which forms have been found in oral currency in the USA and Canada.

Although the original events took place in Ireland, the music hall song would appear to be British, and the refrain meaningless and made just to sound "typically" Irish to non-Gaelic speakers; though of course we can't be certain of that. Look also at the late Bruce Olson's website (mentioned earlier) for more on the Patrick Flemming broadside: Patrick Flemming.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 05:42 PM

where can I find the origins of this song. circa? who wrote it? where?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From:
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 07:40 PM

Thank you guys !!
I was searching to know if "musha ring durum da" was gaelic, and i've found much more. Now this song remains however a knaves song. Last time I heard it, it was sung in the street of the little village Tubbercurry, co.Sligo, by a group of drunken youngs, under the rain and long after pubs had closed, just before police arrived and sent us home. Nasty song, for nasty people.

Subject: Lyr Add: SPORTING HERO (from Bodleian)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:34 PM

Lyr. Add: SPORTING HERO, or, Whiskey in the Jar

I am a sporting hero, I never yet was daunted,
In treating of pretty girls at places where I haunted.
In rum, gin & brandy, I would spend all my store,
And when that is done I would boldly rob for more.

Mush a ring a ding a da, ri too ral la,
Ri too ral laddy O, there's whiskey in the jar.

As I was crossing over Mulberry mountain,
I met with Col. Pepper whose money he was countin
It's first I draw my pistol, my broadsword and rapier
Saying stand and deliver, for I am your deceiver.

I picked up the money it was a pretty penny,
I took it home to Molly for she had not away,
I took it home to Molly, she swore she'd never deceive me,
But the devil's in the woman for the never can be easy.

I being wet and weary and for to take a slumber,
I laid myself down all in my Molly's chamber,
She unloaded my pistols & loaded them with water
I was taken like a lamb going to the slaughter.

Early in the morning between six and seven,
The strong guards surround me, likewise Capt. Nevin,
I flew to my pistols but I found I was mistaken,
When I fired off the water I was a prisoner taken.

I stood in the hall while the turnkeys were rolling,
I stood in the hall while the names they were callin
I drew up my metal bolts & knock'd the sentry down
And made good my way out of Melbrow town.

I have got two brothers and they are in the army,
The one is in Cork and the other in Kilkenny,
If I had them ere tonight I would be brisk & jolly
I would rather have em ere than you deceitful Molly

Some take great delight in their fishing and their fowling,
And others take delight in their carriage rolling,
But I take great delight in being brisk and jolly,
Filling up strong liquors for you deceitful Molly.

I have not corrected the printing errors. From Bodleian Collection, Ballads Catalogue, 2806 C16(329), J. Cadman, Manchester; Andrews, Leeds, between 1850-1855.
Also printed in Bradford, no date.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,skyesong
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 11:39 AM

In some Australian versions, the one by the Seekers for example, the second line of the chorus is "Whacko the derry-oh". This used to be a common phrase in Australian vernacular and I recall reading somewhere (probably in one of Bill Wannan's articles in the Australasian Post in the 1960s) that it was a corruption of an Irish phrase meaning to get drunk or go on the spree. There is a Scots Gaelic word "daorach" which means drunkenness. Assuming there is a similar word in Irish, it could well have been corrupted to "derry". I also once heard a version with Australian place-names:
'One day as I was walking across the Weddin Mountains' and
'I bade farewell to the jail in Parramatta town'.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 03:13 AM

1) He's a raparee, surely?

2) Chorus is port-a-bhéal - but if the first word, "musha" has any meaning, it'd be má 'sé "if so".

3) How's about that loyalist version, Dai? Did your friend release it?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 11:30 AM

I can't get the page I linked for the Glasgow Broadside Ballads version of "Whisky in the Jar" I posted, but it can be found via the index. Whisky in the Jar
Scroll down, near the bottom of the list. A link is provided to the one in the Bodleian, but given here from Ord's "Bothy Songs and Ballads ...." (1930).

Malcolm Douglas pretty well pins down this (at times) popular song. A title from the nonsense chorus title seems to have displaced "The Sporting Hero" as the title.
Was the chorus of this song just something to get the music hall audiences involved?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 09:37 PM

I see that Bruce had added a link from his site to the online Newgate Calendar, where details are given of the life and death of the highwayman Patrick Flemming:

PATRICK FLEMMING. An Irish Highwayman who held Sway near the Bog of Allen and, after numerous Murders, was executed On 24th of April, 1650

It appears that Whisky in the Jar, or whatever you prefer to call it, was a stage song based on the earlier broadside Patrick Flemming or Flemmen; the powder-dampening episode being retained while other details were changed. Although it's possible that the chorus may have some meaning on the lines of some the ingenious suggestions made earlier in this thread, it's probably just as likely that it's meaningless "cod Irish" of the music-hall variety.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 08:42 PM

The song also appeared on broadsides as The Sporting Hero and -perhaps a little later- as The Sporting Hero, or, Whiskey in the Bar; the tune title may be a circular reference. Examples at :

The sporting hero ("I am a sporting hero, that never yet was daunted ...") Performer: Longworth, J. Venue: Bermondsey Hotel. Printed by J. Bradley, Bradford, n.d.

Sporting hero, or, Whiskey in the bar ("I am a sporting hero, I never yet was daunted ...") Manchester & Leeds, 1850-55.

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY IN THE JAR (Glasgow broadside)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 08:21 PM

The story remains pretty much the same, but I like this old version from Glasgow Broadside Ballads website, from about 1850.

Lyr. Add: WHISKY IN THE JAR
   Air- The Sporting hero.

I'm a bold Irish hero, who never yet was daunted,
In the courting of a pretty girl I very seldom wanted,
In the courting of a pretty girl I own it was my folly,
I would venture my life for you my pretty Molly.

Chorus
Mush a ring a do a da, fal lal da do da addy,
Mush a ring a do a da, there's whisky in the jar.

As I was walking over Wicklow mountain,
I met with Colonel Powers, and his money he was counting.
I pulled out my sword, and likewise my rapier,
Saying stand and deliver, for I'm a bold deceiver,

Cho.

It's when I got the money it was a pretty penny,
I put [it] in my pocket, and I took it home to Molly;
She said, my dearest Pat, I never will deceive you,
But the devil's in the women, they never can be easy,

Cho.

I went to Molly's chamber, you'll think it little wonder,
I laid my head upon her bed, for to get a slumber;
But as I lay sleeping, I knew not the matter,
She unloaded my two pistols, and filled them full of water.

Cho.

And as I lay sleeping, I dreamed of my pretty Nelly
I saw Colonel Powers, and four stout able fellows,
I flew to my pistols, but I found I was mistaken,
Out flashed the water, and a prisoner I was taken,

Cho.

O Molly, dearest Molly, now since you have deceived me
Over high hills and mountains, I'm forced to leave you,
I am to blame, but you are the faulter,
You have brought my poor head almost to a halter,

Cho.

It's I have two brothers in the army,
The one lies in Cork, and the other's in Killarney,
And if I had them here I would be blythe and jolly,
I would rather have them now, then you my pretty Molly

Cho.

Its when they led me through the hall,
I threw back the soldiers and loudly did call,
Many have I robbed, but never yet killed any;
And now I must die on the plains of Kilkenny.

Cho.

MS. # Mu23-yl:137, Glasgow Broadside Ballads, Murray Collection.

Quoted from the broadside:
"Fourth Edition since 18th October 1850.
- This song is a regular nightly favourite in the Glasgow Saloons and it meets with its regular nightly applause. It is in fact, within the last few months, become as proverbial in the mouths of the youth of Glasgow as "Jim Crow." As this is the fourth time it has beeb printed, all can possess it from the usual place, namely at the Poet's Box, 6 St. Andrews Lane, Glasgow, along with many other nic-nacks...." "January 13, 1855."

Is the air, "The Sporting Hero," the name of the one usually heard?
Whisky In The Jar

Another version, in the Bodleian Ballads Catalogue, was printed in London, H. Disley, 1860-1883, Firth b.25(168) (As I was going over Calvert mountain, I met with Captain Everett.... In this one, the "young fellow" knocks down the turnkey and makes his escape out of sweet Philip's town).

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKY IN THE JAR
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 01:26 AM

I made some alterations years ago so this is the one I do, played really fast and loud.


Whisky in the Jar

As I was going over the Cork and Kerry Mountains
I met with Captain Farrell and his money, he was countin'
I first produced my pistol; then I rattled forth my saber
sayin', "Stand and deliver, for I am the Bold Deceiver!"

Musha rig rumma du rumma da
Whack fol the daddy-oh
Whack fol the daddy-oh
There's whisky in the jar

Well, he counted out his money and it made a pretty penny
I took the booty home with me and gave it to my Jenny
She kissed me and she swore that she never would deceive me
But, while I was a-sleepin', of my blade she did relieve me

Musha rig...

It was early in the morning I awoke to Jenny's favour
Them guards were standin' `round me, and me without my saber
Well, I flew to my pistol, but alas, I was mistaken
For Jenny'd wet the powder and it's a prisoner I am taken

   Musha rig...

Well, they hauled me off to gaol, without no judge or lawyer
And the arm of Captain Farrell around Jenny, my destroyer
But they didn't tie my fists, so I knocked the sentry down
And I bid a fond farewell unto the gaol in Slaigo Town

Musha rig...

Now, I think I'll find my brother: the one what's in the army
I don't know where he's station'd; Is it Cork or in Killarney?
Together we'll go rovin' through the mountains of Kilkenny
And I know he'll treat me fairer than my darlin' whorin' Jenny

   Musha rig...

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 08:37 PM

Patrick-

I think you're on to something with your translation of the "nonesense words" as having to do with whisky. Here's a mug to you!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 07:55 PM

I have just come back tonight from a concert by Tomas Lynch in Glenfarg Folk Club, where he finished with an amazing version of this song, sung slowly with a hauntingly beautiful guitar accompaniment in DADGAD.

The whole audience was mesmerised ....

Murray

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 04:04 PM

Metallica's version is the same as Thin Lizzy's with a bit more uumph!Metallica were big Lizzy fans and really covered (the Lizzy version) as a tribute.

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,knowitall
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 11:19 AM

Old bloke in the bar, tells tall tales of his adventurous past to tourists and passing trade, in return they usually buy him a drink. If the are not quick in providing the tipple, the storyteller leaves them with a cliffhanger and musharingdum... (blah blah) they have to be reminded "whack for me" (order me a drink) which means knock on the bar to catch the Innkeepers attention. When the whiskey is poured from the jar they get the next installment of the story. That's the tradition where all the different versions originate from.

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: John Robinson (aka Cittern)
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 04:42 AM

Slightly off topic, but after dismissing this song for many years after hearing way too many Irish Theme Bar versions, I was knocked off my seat by the version done by Last Night's Fun. So different that it had to be introduced since nobody would have recognised it as this song!

Best regards
John Robinson
http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,GUEST Patrick Sheehan
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 01:32 AM

Anybody know why the song is called "Whiskey in the Jar"? More specifically, why do they say, "There's whiskey in the jar" in the chorus when not one of the versions of the song has anything to do with Whiskey or Jars?
   The last stanza in a lot of the versions has the bit about "the juice of the barley" but all of the songs are about this outlaw guy getting betrayed by some girl, so why is the chorus a bunch of nonsense and a random bit about booze?


Some of my thoughts:
   I keep looking but everywhere I look tells me the same thing: the words in the chorus are just nonsense. But I find that hard to believe. It sounds very much like the little Irish I know:

"Musha ring um a do um a da" is very very similar sounding to these Irish words:
Musha => M'uishe (my whiskey)
ring um a => rinne me/ (rinne = past tense of "de/an" which is "do, make, perform, carry out, commit, turn out, reach, establish"; me/ = "I, me")
do => don (from "do" + "an" = "to the, for the")
um a da => amada/n (fool)

which translates to "I made my whiskey for the fool." Which, as a translation, has the nice qualities that it follows correct Irish grammar and also follows stress rules for both sentences and individual words. It also has to do with whiskey, which is nice.

my whiskey made a fool of me would translate to, I think:
Rinne se/ m'uishe me/ amada/n. Which doesn't work as a translation because the subject has to follow the verb.

"Whack for the daddy-o" is sometimes said to be a mistranscription of "work of the devil-o" which makes some sense as far as my first translation goes in an "alcohol is the devil's brew" sort of sense. It is also in keeping with the story line revolving around a highwayman.

A possible anternative Irish translation is as follows:
uacht failte ta/ diobh,
which sounds like "whack fol cha ta jiov" which is pretty close. Unfortunately, I don't think it makes any sense since it translates to "It is a testament of welcome for them".

My last thought is that maybe it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with whiskey at all. Maybe the line "there's whiskey in the jar" is actually the mistranscribed line. Maybe the chorus never had anything to do with whiskey.

The Irish word for whiskey, "uisce" (pronounced "ish-keh"), is also the Irish word for water. And many of the versions of the song have his girl filling up his cartridges with water as a main plot point.

-----
Those are some ideas. Does anybody else have any helpful suggestions? (Aside from the suggestion that it is just nonsense...)
Does anyone know where this chorus originates? (There is a very similar sounding chorus in "Whiskey, you're the divil" which the Clancys cover, I think, and that song has a bit more to do with whiskey but still not much as it's mainly a war song.)
Any leads on what's goin' on here?

- Very confused,
   Patrick Sheehan

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:23 AM

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,James Hood
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 11:16 PM

its cool, im still doing more work on seeing what i can dig up, heck i may even be able to find my english paper i did on these... heh

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 03 - 09:03 PM

James-

Not to worry! Do feel free to come back with more goodies. We don't always savage "guests."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 03 - 03:52 PM

hehe, yeh... little scatter brained with i typed it

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Sep 03 - 08:34 PM

James-

You or someone else also messed up one line:

"but jenny drew my charges and filled them up with charges"

Which should run to rhyme with the next line as:


But Jenny drew my charges and filled them up with WATER...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 03 - 03:43 PM

sorry, left out some stuff, the line is of course "i first produce me pistol, and then i drew my saber"

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY IN THE JAR
From:
Date: 18 Sep 03 - 03:35 PM

I've sort of become a local hero to the song... LOL

I did a paper in my freshman comp class about it, about the three versions I had (and preferred and the time) Metallica, Thin Lizzy, and the Dubliners.

The interesting thing, is that it never mentions him getting caught in either the Metallica, or the Thin Lizzy version, except at the end when Jame Hetfield sings "... Me I like sleepin', specially in my Molly's chamber, but here I am in prison, here I am with the ball and chain."

That's OK though, I found another version, on the "A Tear and a Smile from the Emerald Isle: The Gold Collection, Favorite Irish Songs" CD. Personally I hate that version, its way too damn poppy and happy... But here's the lyrics:

(Sounds like calliope music)

As I was going over Kilmagenny Mountain
I met with Capt. Farrel and his money he was counting
I first me pistol, and then I drew me saber,
Saying, "Stand and deliver for I am a bold deceiver."

With me ring dum a do dumma da
Whack for the daddy o
Whack for the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar.

He counted out his money and it made a pretty penny.
I put it in my pocket and I gave it to my Jenny.
She sighed and she swore that she never would betray me,
But the devil take the women! They never can be easy.

With me ring dum a do dumma da
Whack for the daddy o
Whack for the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar.

I went into me chamber, oh, for to take a slumber.
I dreamt of gold and jewels and for sure it is no wonder.
But Jenny drew my charges and filled them up with charges,
And she went for Capt. Farrel to be ready for the slaughter.

With me ring dum a do dumma da
Whack for the daddy o
Whack for the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar.

'Twas early in the morning before I rose to travel.
Up comes a band of footmen and likewise Capt. Farrel.
I then produce my pistol for she stolen away me saber,
But I couldn't shoot the water so a prisoner I was taken.

With me ring dum a do dumma da
Whack for the daddy o
Whack for the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar

If anyone can aid me it's me brother in army,
If I can learn his station in Cork or Killarny;
And if he'll come and join me, we'll go rolling in Killkenny,
And I'll gauge he'll treat me fairer than my darlin' sporting Jenny.

With me ring dum a do dumma da
Whack for the daddy o
Whack for the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar.

With me ring dum a do dumma da
Whack for the daddy o
Whack for the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar.
(End)

It isn't much different I suppose, but the song is way too happy sounding for me to like. LOL, I prefer the Dubliners version, my wife loves the Metallica version, and my mom likes both the thin Lizzy and Metallica versions better.

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Percustard
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 02:59 AM

Just noting that the words to the song about Ben Hall's demise, The Streets of Forbes" (mentioned above) has an error.

Ben didnt go to Goobang Creek.

He went to Goobang Mick (who then betrayed him to the police).

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:11 PM

I remember that there's also a rather truncated version in Alfred Williams's Folk Songs of the Upper Thames. This shows it was in oral circulation in England about 1900-1920. But I've misplaced my copy of the book so I can't see what Williams says about it! Anyone?

Steve

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 03 May 01 - 10:38 PM

For evidence that the "Patrick Flemming" version, c 1800, in Holloway and Black's 'Later English Broadside Ballads', I, #90, is no later than c 1684 see ZN787 in the broadside ballad index on my website. www.erols.com/olsonw

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 24 Dec 99 - 11:49 PM

I don't know where the song was first or last collected but there is a (circa 1850) London broadside of "Whiskey in the Jar" at the Bodlian Library. What we don't know is whether it was at that time a traditional song, a composition of a broadside scribe or a music hall song.

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar (Grateful Dead version)
From: Tom Henehan
Date: 24 Dec 99 - 03:24 PM

I just got the Grateful Dead box-set "So Many Roads," which includes a rehearsal tape of "Whiskey in the Jar," recorded shortly before Jerry Garcia's demise. (It's the second-to-last selection on the album, followd by the title tune, which was recorded at the Dead's final show in Chicago.)

Jerry had just recorded the song with David Grisman for their "Shady Grove" album (which I have NOT yet heard). To my ear, he's got the melody "wrong," or perhaps "different from the traditional": the verse should have an "ABAB" melodic structure, as I recall it, with a rising or starting line, floowed by a concluding line, then a repeart of the two lines before the refrain. Jerry sings it "ABBB," with the second or "finishing" melody line repeated almost-ad-infinitum, which sounds counterintuitive to me.

However:

All such quibbling aside, it's a nice rendition, with the band gradually joining in to accompany Jerry's John-Hurt-style fingerpicking. Since it's a rehearsal recording, you hear some verbal byplay commenting on the old song. Hearing this cut prompted me to look up the lyrics on Mudcat and to stumble across this discussion thread, and I'm glad that happened.

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Sourdough
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 11:46 AM

In the Boston Atheneum is a one of a kind book by a highwayman sentenced to death in Colonial Massachusetts. Hemay have been a sailor at some time in his life because he had a lot of comlex tattoos.

While waiting for his execution, he didn't write a song but did write his memoirs and asked that they be bound in leather made from his decorative skin. This was done and the book is in the Atheneum.

I never had the nerve to ask the librarian whether there was a bookmark, too.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: CarlZen
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 02:14 AM

Bezell-

The song appears in "The Folksongs of Noth America" by Allan Lomax. He credits Frank Warner, also. The introduction to the song has a lot of the type of history you may be looking for. The most interesting thing to me was his statement that "There is a close connection between this ballad and John Gay's 'Beggar's Opera' (1728). It's worth a trip to the local library. If you've enver seen the book, you may find it fascinating enough to purchase.

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 09:13 PM

Roy,

Truly is good to hear your cybervoice here.

Jeff Davis, singing partner of Jeff Warner (Jeff & Jeff), says in his TRADITIONAL column in the current FOLK ALLIANCE NEWSLETTER that this song had NOT BEEN COLLECTED IN IRELAND. The first time it was collected was by Frank and Ann Warner--parents of Jeff & Garret--from (as Sandy said) Lena Bourne Fish. In the Warners' great book of songs they collected, _AMERICAN TRADITIONAL FOLKSONGS FROM THE ANNE AND FRANK WARNER COLLECTION_ -- (Syracuse Univ. Press--1984) it states that the "song was collected in Ireland" but as a "tune only".

Art

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From:
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 01:38 PM

Actually, that's EXACTLY what I'm trying to research...the history of the song. Most of these higwaymen songs have some kind of historical fact behind them. Anyone know about this one? I am involved in renaissance faires all over the U.S. and three different performs at one faire each have a different version. We ALL want to know if there is a REAL story behind the song. Please EMAIL me if you know.

Thanks.

Larry

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 10:14 AM

Personally I can't stand the Metallica version, but as I've said on earlier threads, if popular bands covering standards will help people search out the originals, then it's a good thing.

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: alison
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 11:26 PM

Yes, I heard it the other day too.. I think its in the charts over here....

The Metallica version sounded exactly like the Thin Lizzy one.

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Persephone
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 09:32 PM

i heard this song on the radio a couple of days ago (metallica version) i thought it sounded like a folk song, but i wasnt sure. its such a wondeful song, and i find it refreshing that they chose to remake it. it made me think of how sick us muscisians are of covers, and that maybe in addition to the originals that i write, i should take a look at old folk songs and make them my own. songs survive so long for a reason;)

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From:
Date: 06 Mar 99 - 06:42 PM

Roy, I am very pleased to see you posting here.

I bought that album in Montreal in the late 1970's or early 1980's, as well as another one called "By Sandbank Fields", I think -- I'm not by my LP's as I type this. You'd do us a great service if you could have these released on CD.

"Both" frisk and lively lads? So that's it! For nearly twenty years I thought it was "bold"!

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: KillerBob66
Date: 06 Mar 99 - 01:24 AM

Kirk, I believe you made a little mistake in Metallica's lyrics for Whisky in the Jar "Me, I like sleepin', 'specially in MY MOLLY'S chamber"

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Roy Harris
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 11:48 AM

I first heard 'my' version 'Bold Lovell' in the late 1960's sung by a fine singer, Mike Herring, of Peterborough,at the Nottingham Traditional Music Club when he did a guest spot there. I founded the club in 1967, it ran for 22 years. Mike told me he had the song from A.L. Lloyd. A.L.(Bert) supplied me with the words, I went on to sing it around the folk circuits, telling people that it was "An English version of Whiskey In the Jar". In my first ever concert in New York, held in Wayne Hollingsworth's loft circa '76,I sang it and announced it this way only to be approached by a gleeful Roberts & Barrand telling me it was in the 'Green Mountain Songster'. Bert Lloyd later confirmed this to me, adding that he had adapted his version from there! A further memory -I was once on the Gene Shay radio show in Philly, doing a mix of live and album tracks. Gene played Bold Lovell, a lady rang in to tell me "How marvellous that I could sing like that, and play guitar like that at the same time". I was very tempted to take credit, but had to admit to her that it was Martin Carthy on guitar. I always found it a pleasureable song to sing. The phrase "Both brisk and lively lads, and champions of folly" just rolls off the tongue. A great song. When I recorded it I called the album "Champions of Folly" I'm flattered to know that people in America have the album. Did it go any further? If you bought that record,far off from the UK, please let me know. Thanks. ROY.