Halloween Origins

Subject: RE: Halloween Origins
From: alison
Date: 12 Nov 97 - 07:07 AM

Hi

Turnips are pretty easy to hollow out. In Ireland we have decent sized turnips, (about the size of Aussie pumpkins, turnips over here are pretty tiny.) I, on the other hand, have absoultely no idea how you would carve out a pumpkin because they're so hard! Do you have to cook them a bit first?

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Halloween Origins
From: judy
Date: 12 Nov 97 - 02:04 AM

Foot in mouth. Yummy toes. I always learn more than I ever thought there was to know about the subject here. Great info. Thanks all

Charles,
We don't give out candy skulls here. Sounds like a Mexican/S.American tradition. I have seen them in the Mexican bakeries (here So. Calif) and on Olvera Street (the first street in LA, now kept as a historic site). Most of the people give out small candy bars, a few give out pennies, and my kids got a toothbrush from one person.At parties at school the kids get Halloween erasers, pencils, spider rings, plastic skeletons and homemade (or bought) cookies, cupcakes and assorted candy
judy

Subject: RE: Halloween Origins
From:
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 07:17 PM

When I was a kid we were told that the hollowing-out of pumpkins had its origins in the Scots hollowing-out turnips. How that was done with any convenience was never explained to me (tried it once).

Subject: RE: Halloween Origins
From: Charles
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 06:35 AM

But, the invaders came into a countries that had given up on human sacrifices. Even Ireland had already embraced christianity: when the Germanic invasion of Britain cut it off from the continent, it wrote the book of Kells and sent missions to Scotland.

Actually, there's some very good stuff on the origins of Halloween at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6696/hallows.htm. It's solidly researched and it debunks some scare literature about the festival.

Charles

Subject: RE: Halloween Origins
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 10 Nov 97 - 03:46 PM

The English for chrysanthèmes is chrysanthemums (stress goes on the a). Sometimes shortened to "chrysanths" in Britain and the more pronounceable "mums" in the U. S.

I don't see that you have to look for an ancient common origin of Germanic and Celtic festivals. The Anglo-Saxons could have given a Germanic name to the fires their Celtic neighbors were building.

Subject: RE: Halloween Origins
From: Charles
Date: 10 Nov 97 - 12:27 PM

The message that prompted Judy to write this thread is here. Thanks for copying all this information out Judy, until now I hadn't seen much solid stuff about, let's say, the "northern route" (via Ireland) of Halloween.

I still have some problems with it. Bonfire isn't a Celtic word at all, it's a Germanic one. The Celtic traditions we know today have been kept in Ireland and some Western land's ends. The people who repopulated Britain, bringing with them the words bone and fire came from the Eastern shores of the North Sea (Northern Germany, Denmark, Norway) from about 300 AD. Celtic archeological remains in the continent date at least than 500 years before that and remain much further south and west. And at the time, Ireland had already become Christian, and probably had abandoned human sacrifices, although they may have kept a form of trick or treating.

So we haven't got two feasts on the same day - we've got three! A Celtic one, A Latin one that became Christian, and a Germanic one. They may have had common origins that would have to be even older. But older than celts, that's old. The only common feature I know of going that far back is the Indo-European family of languages... Anyone heard of something like Halloween in northern India?

Now about Halloween at home. In France the Toussaint and jour des morts are important religious feasts, it's one of the few days, along with Christmas and Easter, when people that usually don't bother turn up in Church. The 2nd of November is when they go and tend graves, bringing flowers (chrysanthèmes, what do you call them?). In Spain, it's even more of an event. When I was in Manchester a couple of years ago, I organised religious activities among Spanish and Latin-American students. Their respect for those feasts was tied up to traditions that are very romanised and christianised (although they probably do predate Christian times). It's the Southern route of importing Halloween into America, and brought nice little candy skulls to Mexico, with help from local folk.

So it looks like two separate traditions developed from feasts that took place on the same day. They are still very distinct: you don't give little candy skulls to the Children that ask trick or treat, or do you?

With all that, the new tradition that has come out of the American pot and is coming back into Europe is not more Celtic than it is Christian or Germanic. It's neither of those really, but since Celtic is what any self-respecting folk tradition ought to be at the moment, it might as well be :-)

Charles

Subject: Halloween Origins
From: judy
Date: 07 Nov 97 - 03:31 PM

Oh, well better late than never.
This is actually a response to a message in the French songs thread

According to Eric A. Kimmel in the Oct 1980 issue of Cricket magazine (I've tried to shorten it a bit):

The Celtic New Year began on November 1st, marking the end of autumn and the beginning of winter; the time of the Samhain festival. The Celts believed that Samhain, the God of the Underworld, permitted the souls of the dead to return to their homes. So on Samhain Eve, Oct 31st, all the hearth fires were put out. The Druids, the Celtic priests, kindled huge bonfires on the hilltops to help the wandering spirits find their way home. Live sacrifices were made in these flames, and the Celts lit torches from the sacred bonfires to carry home to make new fires in their hearths to herald the new year. The word "bonfire" itself comes from "bone-fire" because the bones of the sacrifices remained in the ashes.

It was the custom for people to dress up in animal skins. In Ireland a parade was held in honor of Muck Olla, god of fertility and plenty. The leader of the parade wore a white robe and a mask made from a deer's head and antlers. Those following behind begged food from the people and houses they passed --an early form of trick or treat.

When the Romans conquered the Celts and moved to Gaul (now France) in the first century AD they brought with them Feralia, an occasion of great feasting in honor of the dead. Special ceremonies were held in honor of Pomona, the patron goddess of fruit bearing trees ....merging with Samhain and thus we go to parties, eat nuts and sweets and bob for apples.

Centuries later when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire all pagan rituals were banned. The Church changed the old holidays into Christian celebrations. In 800AD All Saint's Day(Nov 1) and All Soul's Day (Nov 2) were created to take the place of Feralia which had taken the place of Samhain. All Saints Day or All Hallows(Holy) Day was created to honor any saints who didn't have their own particular day. All Soul's Day honors the dead. The actual celebration of these two holidays began on the night of Oct 31st, the evening of All Hallows Day, which was called All Hallows Even or Hallow E'en, now known as Halloween.

Jack o' the Lantern Tale:
Jack did one evil deed after another. Since he didn't believe in Heaven or Hell, neither would have him after he died so he was condemned to walk the earth forever. Thus, his ghost wanders the roads at night, holding a lantern to light his path. In Ireland they made lanterns of hollowed out gourds or turnips cutting a few holes in its side and sticking a candle stub in. Sometimes they cut a scary face. When the first Irish immigrants came to America, they found that the native pumpkin made a capital "Jack-o-Lantern".

The Irish also brought the custom of trick or treat to America. In Ireland, Halloween was a good time for getting back at people you didn't like or for just plain making mischief. Bands of young men and women would roam around in the dark, playing tricks on their neighbors. The next day it would be "Oh, my, it must have been those wicked ghosts!". People soon realized that a good way to avoid trouble was to pay off the local bullies before Halloween. But soon these gangs were so bold that they came knocking at the door -masked, of course- demanding a bribe, or else: either be tricked or hand out a treat

From ghoulies and ghosties and long-legged beasties and things that go bump in the night, Good Lord, deliver us!!

judy