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Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions

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JenEllen 26 May 01 - 01:56 PM
Micca 26 May 01 - 02:18 PM
katlaughing 26 May 01 - 03:02 PM
DougR 26 May 01 - 05:49 PM
DougR 26 May 01 - 05:50 PM
katlaughing 26 May 01 - 06:02 PM
The Walrus 26 May 01 - 06:20 PM
DougR 27 May 01 - 12:20 AM
katlaughing 27 May 01 - 12:29 AM
Peter T. 27 May 01 - 02:11 PM
CRANKY YANKEE 27 May 01 - 04:02 PM
toadfrog 27 May 01 - 04:35 PM
DougR 27 May 01 - 05:29 PM
Liz the Squeak 27 May 01 - 05:38 PM
JenEllen 27 May 01 - 06:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 May 01 - 06:23 PM
DougR 28 May 01 - 12:35 AM
Liz the Squeak 28 May 01 - 02:14 AM
GUEST,Pete M at work 28 May 01 - 09:32 PM
Bill D 28 May 01 - 09:53 PM
DougR 29 May 01 - 12:36 AM
GeorgeH 29 May 01 - 08:45 AM
Peter T. 29 May 01 - 09:28 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 29 May 01 - 09:36 AM
toadfrog 30 May 01 - 01:56 AM
DougR 30 May 01 - 02:16 AM
JenEllen 30 May 01 - 02:31 AM
The Walrus at work 30 May 01 - 08:51 AM
Peter T. 30 May 01 - 10:04 AM
Les from Hull 30 May 01 - 11:57 AM
Les from Hull 30 May 01 - 12:06 PM
DougR 30 May 01 - 01:17 PM
JenEllen 30 May 01 - 05:53 PM
Liz the Squeak 30 May 01 - 05:58 PM
JenEllen 30 May 01 - 06:42 PM
GUEST,Pete M at work 30 May 01 - 09:45 PM
JenEllen 30 May 01 - 09:51 PM
DougR 30 May 01 - 09:56 PM
CRANKY YANKEE 31 May 01 - 01:03 AM
toadfrog 31 May 01 - 01:18 AM
Liz the Squeak 31 May 01 - 01:23 AM
DougR 31 May 01 - 02:48 AM
JenEllen 31 May 01 - 06:03 AM
DaveJ 31 May 01 - 07:00 AM
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GeorgeH 31 May 01 - 08:06 AM
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Subject: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: JenEllen
Date: 26 May 01 - 01:56 PM

I received a lovely tape from a dead great-uncle in the post yesterday (don't get me started as to how weird THAT is) with some of the songs from war-time that he used to sing me in ma wee days, narrated by himself. Being born in decidedly not-war days, I would greatly appreciate any information about the songs, and also any information as to where I can purchase 'good' copies of them, this tape is apparently drawn from some well-worn LP's, and won't last long enough to suit me.

"Roll Me Over" --roll me over bless my soul we're at it again....
"Give Me Five Minutes More"
"Let Bygones be Bygones" --Izzy?
"Hear my song, Violetta" --Mantovanni?
"My Love is Only for You"--this version is accordion
"I'm Gonna Get Lit Up"--Billy Cartman?
"The Stars Will Remember"--from the movie 'smart girls don't talk'
"May I Call You Sweetheart"--Izzy again
"There's a Tree In the Meadow"--Sam Brown
"The Silver Wedding Waltz"
"Confidentially" --Reg Dixon
"Bless 'Em All" --Bertha Wilmont?
"Run Rabbit, Run" --Flannagan and Allan
"There's a Boy Coming Home On Leave"--Phoebe Daniels?
"We're Gonna Hang Out the Washing.." Flannagan and Allan
"Down Forget-Me-Not Lane" Flannagan and Allan


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Micca
Date: 26 May 01 - 02:18 PM

Jen, the Izzy is probably Izzy Bonn a Jewish artiste from around that era, I can probably find CDs with some of them on if you like......


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 May 01 - 03:02 PM

The Hear My Song one, was the title song tof the grand movie a few years back. I put the lyrics in THIS THREAD. I'll send you a tape of it, darlin'. There are some great ones from the soundtrack.

Bert and/or his da oughta know about the rest of these.

kat


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 26 May 01 - 05:49 PM

I LOVED that movie, kat!

The only ones I remember from WW II are:

"Five Minutes More", recorded by Glenn Miller orchestra with Tex Beneke on vocal "Roll Me Over," but I can't rememeber who recorded it "There's a Tree in the Meadow" made popular by Margaret Whiting I wonder if "May I call you sweethert" is actually, "Let Me Call You Sweetheart," which predates WWII "Bless Em All," which I associate with being a British WWII song, but I have no proof of that.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 26 May 01 - 05:50 PM

Whoa! "Bless Em All," might have been written by Irving Berlin for his all Army show, "This is the Army." I think it was.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 May 01 - 06:02 PM

Me, too, DougeR!! I bought the saoundtrack the day I saw the movie, because I thought so much of the whole thing. That's one of the first movies in which I'd seen Gabriel Byrne.

kat


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: The Walrus
Date: 26 May 01 - 06:20 PM

Bless 'em All is actually pre WWII (Roy Palmer dates the first version as coming from 1916) but it seems to have become popular during the war. There are several versions around (some of which would NEVER have been recorded at the time), I believe one of the more popular (repeatable)recordings was either by Vera Lynn or Anne Shelton (I can't remember which). I'm not sure if it's the same, but I always associate "Hear My Song" with Joseph Locke (I may have it on one of my late mother's L.P.s somewhere, I'll take a look in the morning. This may sound odd, but try looking for one or two of the suppliers for WWII re-enactment as they might well have copies of these songs on CD.

Sorry I can't help .

Walrus


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 27 May 01 - 12:20 AM

Walrus: If you haven't seen the movie, "Hear My Song," you should do so. It's not wonder the song reminds you of Joseph Locke. But I'll tell you no more! :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 May 01 - 12:29 AM

I second what Doug said, Walrus, rent the movie!:-)


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 May 01 - 02:11 PM

I have a Flanagan and Allan compilation -- what are you looking for by way of info?
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 27 May 01 - 04:02 PM

iT AINT,"BLESS EM aLL" anyway. The first line, as I learned it in the 1947 US Army starts with the letter"F"

Of all the WWII songs from Brittain the one that got to me the most was, "There'll be Bluebirds Over the White Cliffs of Dover" which was recorded by Vera Lynn. I told this story before in some other thread, but I'll say it again.

When I first heard this song it was during the time when no one knew whether or not England would survive. Things were so bad that the English People were sending their children to the U.S. and Canada so that there would be someone left to carry on if Brittain fell. My dad and I were listening to the radio one evening and they played Vera Lynn's record. I was 11 or 12 years old, my dad was in his early 40's I looked over at him and there were tears in his eyes. So, of course, I started crying.

The song says a lot about the English people's resolve, hope and faith in the future that is typical of these people.

Brittain could not have survived without the "Stuff" that we sent them. And, make no mistake about this, The German People are a very resourcefull courageous and strong race. WE WOULD NOT HAVE COME OUT OF THIS WAR UnSCATHED, AS WE DID, IF ENGLAND HAD NOT HELD OUT ALL BY THEMSELVES, AS THEY DID.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: toadfrog
Date: 27 May 01 - 04:35 PM

Bless 'em All is located at klik. I do not think the words were written by Irving Berlin; they sound like Rudyard Kipling. And to me they sound very much like a traditional song. And they would seem to antedate WWII, and probably WW I as well. Ewan McColl sings it on a record identified at the abv. site. And my father, who served in the American army, remembers singing those lyrics, and it appears all those others are probably just parodies. I've not heard of Bertha Wilmont, but she may have composed one of the parodies.

Lyrics to "Five minutes more" are at klak and a recording is advertised at Clique"Roll Me Over" can be located at Claque

A whole bunch of WWI British tunes are in the Cheryl Morgan songbook, for which Cluck here.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 27 May 01 - 05:29 PM

Cranky Yankee, well said! You evidently entered the armed services a year before me. And you are absolutely right about the English people at that time, I think.

What do you think, McGrath and others, would the population react the same wa today that they did in the early 1940's? (Thread creep, I know but I'd be interested in any comments).

DougR


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 May 01 - 05:38 PM

Doug - probably not. Although there are still great reserves of strength of character, just look at the way some behave as soon as there is news of a rail strike, a post strike or fuel shortage. The share all attitude has become replaced by a f**k you, Jack, I'm alright attitude as witnessed by a woman in my local supermarket during the fuel 'crisis'. She had at least 6 loaves of bread in her trolley but still put up a fight for the last one on the shelf which was about to be taken by a woman with 3 children in tow and hardly anything in the trolley.

Bless 'em all may well have been written about the time of the play of the same name, which was WWI. 1916 would be about right, given the mildness of the language. The F version probably didn't become popular until after WWII, when it became more acceptable to swear in song. Funny how we now accept the F version as the original.....

LTS


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: JenEllen
Date: 27 May 01 - 06:10 PM

No, Dugger, thread creep perfectly acceptable!! Of the younger family I have, I don't see the same attitude that I saw in my grands and older family when I was young. Of the four, the only one I have left is my Nana, and to this day she still whispers the word 'German'! (Then again, she still thinks Alice Cooper is a 'nice young lad, bought a house for his mum, he did..' and that Aerosmith is just one guy named Harold Smith who happens to be really, really good....)

Thanks so much for the information (and yet another movie to add to the list)

The 'Five Minutes More' I have is by the Squadronaires. Vera Lynn was the 'Silver Wedding Waltz' and 'I'll Make Up For Everything'. 'May I Call you Sweetheart' is definately a 'may'..but has the same melody. There is also a 'When You're in Love' by Reggie Goff (?).

~Jen


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 01 - 06:23 PM

My Mother-in-Law, who lost her first husband in WW11 and was (still is) quite a lass herself always refers to Vera Lynne as 'Moaning Minnie'! Dunno if this adds anything but I thought it was interesting anyway.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 28 May 01 - 12:35 AM

Thanks for the opinions, Liz and Jen. I think things have changed considerably across the pond too. The patriotic attitude so prevlent in those days in the U. S., is no more either, I think.

One of my favorite WWII songs made popular by Vera Lynn was "A Nightengale Sang in Barkley Square."


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 May 01 - 02:14 AM

That's Berkeley Square to most Brits, and there hasn't been a nightingale there since before the Romans came!!

I too, loathe and detest Dame Vera, especially when there were so many other great people around at that time. Once Wailing Winnie (another nickname we had for her) got in on the act, not even Bloody Gracie Fields had a chance (now there's a voice that could strip paint.....).

LTS


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GUEST,Pete M at work
Date: 28 May 01 - 09:32 PM

For the full impact of that sobriquet for Dame V, you have to ralise that "Moaning minne" was also the nickname that sqaddies gave to the Wermacht's Nebelwerfer multibarrel mortar, one of the most effective and hated indirect fire weapons in Normandy. Can't say I'm a fan of Dame V's but I wouldn't have thougt she was that bad. Gracie Fields, now thats a different story. Pete M


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Bill D
Date: 28 May 01 - 09:53 PM

"Five Minutes More" was a hit song when I was in 2nd grade,,,would make it 'about' 1946...I remember making up kids parodies of it....

My wife has been singing "Bless Em All" for several years, learned from her father's little WWII songbook....

And a woman we know does a delightful version of "There'll be Bluebirds Over the White Cliffs of Dover" on the ukelele.....those songs will be around a LONG time.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 29 May 01 - 12:36 AM

LTS, sorry about that, I always thought it was Barkley! Don't know that I have ever seen the words to the song. Were you around during WWII, Liz The Squeek?

You and many others obviously didn't care for Vera Lynn, but she WAS very popular during WWII.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GeorgeH
Date: 29 May 01 - 08:45 AM

Sorry to disappoint whoever it was praised us brits. for holding out as we did - but we weren't alone; the Russians did an even greater job of holding out, and paid a far greater price (ok, so millions more of their citizens also paid a price after the war, but that's another issue).

Generally I dislike the "re-write history guessing games" but it frightens me to think what would have happened had Germany not opened her second front against Russia.

As for the original question . . . at the age of 5 (which would make it about 1953) I had my tonsils removed. On my return from hospital awaiting me was a wind-up gramophone, a present from my Grandfather (the last wealthy member of our family, but that's several other stories!!). Of the three 78s he sent with it one of them had "Run, Rabbit Run" on one side, and "Hang out the washing" on the other. I'd guess these were the Flannagan and Allan recordings.

I'd also guess (no evidence at all) that these were amongst the very few "peoples" songs (as opposed to "art songs, which is where I'd place "Bluebirds") from WWII to become popular.

George


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 May 01 - 09:28 AM

Oh, I don't know. People forget that in 1936, the Oxford Union students' society voted never to take up arms; and that the Americans were not interested in fighting in another European War. My uncle was a British conscientious objector for the first 3 years of the war, and then he couldn't stand it any more. 18 year olds are as ignorant and anti-everything as they ever were. But they will sign up to fight, and act heroically and badly, depending. If you read the memoirs of officers in World War I, they are appalled by the new recruits; and then within months they find themselves bathing their mudsoaked feet to keep them from getting sores.
The problem is that those days are gone: what we lack is the courage to struggle to work towards the elimination of war (George W. Bush's missile shield is an act of despair). Peacemaking and peacekeeping are the new heroism -- it just doesn't look glamorous.

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 29 May 01 - 09:36 AM

If you look at Amazon UK under "We'll meet again" there are several compilation CDs of 1940s music which have many of the tracks you want by the original artists. Scroll past all the Vera Lynn alone stuff.
RtS


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: toadfrog
Date: 30 May 01 - 01:56 AM

An extensive group of RUDE British songs from the war, (e.g. "I don't want to join the Army") can be found at Klik here.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 30 May 01 - 02:16 AM

Peter T., you may feel George W. Bush's "missle shield is an act of despair," but that doesn't make it so. Things have changed in the world since the days when there were only three or four world powers. Now, any small country with nuculear capability is a world power, and not everybody in the world loves America, as so many mudcatters have cheerfully pointed out.

If the U. S. could put a man on the moon, I don't think it would be impossible to develop a missle shield. Since a shield would be a defensive weapon, not one used as a offencive weapon, I don't understand why there are so many opposed to it. Perhaps you will enlighten me, Peter T.

Should one of the aforementioned world leaders decide someday to push the button that would send missles our way, I'd hate it if the last thought in the mind of our dying president would be, "Gee, I really should have pushed harder for the development of a missle shield!"

But to bring this discussion back to the subject, perhaps if that were to happen, he would be humming "A Nightengale Sang in Berkley Square," when the missle detonates.

DougR


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Subject: Lyr Add: A NIGHTINGALE SANG IN BERKELEY SQUARE
From: JenEllen
Date: 30 May 01 - 02:31 AM

Down, boyos. Play nice. Female opinion only, but if there were no hot tempers then there would be no need for missiles in the first place.

Here ya go, Dugger. Maybe someone can fill in the holes? The recording I have is a terribly fuzzy one of Elsie Carlisle. You were right, beautiful song.


A NIGHTINGALE SANG IN BERKELEY SQUARE
lyrics by Eric Maschwitz and music by Manning Sherwin, ©1940.

That certain night, the night we met,
There was magic abroad in the air.
There were angels dining at the Ritz,
And a nightingale sang in Berkeley Square.

I may be right; I may be wrong,
But I'm perfectly willing to swear
That when you turned and smiled at me,
A nightingale sang in Berkeley Square.

The moon that lingered over London town,
Poor puzzled moon, he wore a frown.
How could he know we two were so in love?
The whole darned world seemed upside down.

The streets of town were paved with stars.
It was such a romantic affair,
And as we kissed and said goodnight,
A nightingale sang in Berkeley Square.

When dawn came stealing up all gold and blue,
To interrupt our rendezvous,
I still remember how you smiled and said,
'Was that a dream or was it true?'

Our homeward step was just as light
As the tap-dancing feet of Astaire,
And like and echo far away,
A nightingale sang in Berkeley Square.

I know 'cause I was there,
That night in Berkeley Square.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 30 May 01 - 08:51 AM

JenEllen,

When true lovers meet in Mayfair, so the story goes
Bluebirds sing Winter turns to spring
Every little street in Mayfair falls beneath the spell,
I know such enchantments can be,'cos it happened one evening to me.

That certain night,
the night we met ,
There was magic abroad in the air
There were angels dining at the Ritz
And a nightingale sang in Berkeley Square
etc.

Good luck.

walrus


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 May 01 - 10:04 AM

I will not talk about the stupid missile shield in JenEllen's thread; I will not talk about the stupid Maginot Line in JenEllen's thread; I will not talk about the terrifying threat from North Korea; I will not talk about creating the very situation you are purporting to solve; I will not talk about the stupid missile shield in JenEllen's thread. Whew.
The best version of "A Nightingale" was by Leslie Hutchinson ("Hutch").

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Les from Hull
Date: 30 May 01 - 11:57 AM

Although I'm a bit too young for WW2, my Mum and Dad served in it, and so I'll try to add what I've learnt from them.

Reginald Dixon was the resident organist at Blackpool Tower, and there must be many recordings of his still available, but they might be on organ compilations.

Flannagan and Allen were part of the 'Crazy Gang', and some of their recordings may be under that name.

Vera Lynn was heavily promoted by the newsreels and BBC as the 'Forces' Favourite', but most people (according to my Dad) actually preferred Anne Shelton, who was far more personable.

Les


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Les from Hull
Date: 30 May 01 - 12:06 PM

Could your 'Phoebe Daniels' actually be Bebe Daniels?


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 30 May 01 - 01:17 PM

Thanks for posting the lyrics, JenEllen and Walrus. Other singers of the song may have been far more popular across the pond (and some of you have named many) but the only one I recall attaining great popularity in the U. S. was Vera Lynn's. Perhaps her record company had a better marketing department than the others.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: JenEllen
Date: 30 May 01 - 05:53 PM

Thanks Walrus, my recording doesn't have that first verse.

Talk about what you will. This information is enlightening, but please, if you have any manners, use them. All I ask. What's wrong with "I don't understand..." "Could you please explain.." or "Wouldn't it be fair then to say..?" Because the thread was started about war songs doesn't mean we need to incite any here. Diplomacy is swiftly becomming a lost art.

~J


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 May 01 - 05:58 PM

Reggie Dixon is available on cassette and CD recordings and has seen a surge in popularity since the BBC TV programme 'Red Dwarf' where Rimmer is a Reggie fan.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: JenEllen
Date: 30 May 01 - 06:42 PM

Isn't he also the Hammond Organ fanatic? Rimmer, not Reg...Thanks Liz, another place to look!


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GUEST,Pete M at work
Date: 30 May 01 - 09:45 PM

DougR

very quick synopsis on "missile shields".

1. Technical With the best technology the US and the West can mount there is no such thing as even 80% accurate bombing and this is childs play compared to the problems in hitting a missile. Problems include detection, identification, accelaration and targeting, that even before the sneaky other lot try and fool your system with MRV's, decoys etc. 2. Financial It cost a LOT of dosh and despite GWB Jnr tax cuts I've not seen any improvement in the health, education, poverty etc stats for the USA. I would suggest a lot of people could think of better things to do with the money. 3. Political For the USA to even try and make itself immune from attack is inviting everyone else to gang up on them. I remember during the "Cuban crisis" there was great derision over American horror at the thought of missles being that close to their cites, something Europe had lived with for twenty plus years. 4. Practical. If I wanted to nuke the USA it would probably be easier and a lot cheaper to send a few containers of "fluffy bunnies" to key cities, I would think the chances of them being caught by customs would be relatively low. 5. Military There is no such thing as a "defensive" weapon. If it can traget an incoming missile it can be targeted at anything else within range, and the motive of the person authorising luanch doesn't invalidate it.

As Eisenhower originally pointed out, and Macnamara implemented, the entire Western economy is based on military spending. To change this would require a total change in the corporate / military / political structure. That doesn't mean its not a good idea.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: JenEllen
Date: 30 May 01 - 09:51 PM

Well put, Pete at work.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 30 May 01 - 09:56 PM

Thanks for your input, Pete M. at work.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 31 May 01 - 01:03 AM

In the first place, The soviet Union wasn't attacked by the Germans as soon as War was declared by The U.K., The British DID stand alone for quite some time. Hitler didn't transfer his forces to the Eastern Front until AFTER the British had shown him that they would not give up, and the RAF made mincemeat out of the Luftwaffe. The fact is, Hitler goofed over and over and over again. The only way his actions make any sense at all is if you assume that Hitler WANTED TO DESTROY GERMANY, FOR WHATEVER REASON HIS WEIRD MIND HAD. Maybe he was pissed off at Germany for throwing him in Jail, etc. It seems to me that he blundered over and over and over again because his subconscious wanted to wreck Germany. I think that he did some of the things he did, TO MAKE THE OTHER NATIONS OF THE WORLD BECOME SO ANGRY, (which we did) THAT THEY WOULD NOT STOP UNTIL GERMANY WAS IN RUINS AND COMPLETELY HUMBLED.

Notice, he didn't get the world absolutely furious with Austria and Italy. And as far as Japan is concerned, in their entire history, they have never persecuted their own people because of religion. The only time religion was anDuring the War issue was during the Satsuma rebellion, and, that was only because the Satsuma Clan were Christians. The Japanese, it is my understanding, had nothing but contempt for hitler's "Final solution" and in fact, they had a plan, in place, to attempt to rescue Jews because they thought that these bright, energetic people would be a welcome addition to Japanese culture. The only anti semitic acts they committed, at Hitlers Insistance that they do SOMETHING, was to break phonograph records of music by Jewish composers and performers.

Jody Gibson

I'll be right back, I don't want AOL (the scoundrels) to knock me off the internet before I can submit the above.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: toadfrog
Date: 31 May 01 - 01:18 AM

Gee, Cranky Yankee, I am a liberal too. To paraphrase whats-his-name, I agree with what you say, but will deny to the death your right to say it in that manner.

Hitler was unique only in his importance. his tendencies were not all that different from Idi Amin or Radovan Karadzic. When you dislike what someone stands for, you can always say, Oh, that guy must be crazy, must be a masochist, etc. But what you are really doing is refusing to understand him.

The German Socialists insisted on calling Hitler a "petit-bourgeois," roughly equivalent to "wimp." They thought of the Nazis as wimps. They paid for that. And if we write violent people off as crazy, we too may end up paying


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 May 01 - 01:23 AM

Yes JenEllen - Rimmer is the Hammond Organ fan and collector of telegraph pole pictures.

Cranky - full marks for getting your British war history correct, but I think you had better go and read 'A town like Alice'. The Japanese did not have to torture their own people, their culture did it for them - witness the degredation of the man who had to guard the women prisoners in the book - it was a form of punishment and the guard suffered for it as much as if you had made him one of the prisoners. He was without honour, and that is the worst you could do to a proud soldier of the Empire. That is also why so many officers committed suicide, rather than be captured or surrender. To submit to people they saw as a sub-species was so against their honourable upbringing that they could not submit, but would die with dignity at their own hands, thus saving face where they could.

As for Hitler, he loved Austria, was Austrian by birth and Germany has always had a love/hate relationship with them. Hitler wanted to turn Germany into Austria, making it a pastoral haven and a cultural leader. To do this, the old Germany had to be eradicated. Almost all of 'Mein Kampf' is about this struggle for a new world. But only at the expense of everyone else.

And today's useless information: the German national anthem goes to a tune called 'Austria'.....

LTS


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 31 May 01 - 02:48 AM

Ah yes, CRANKY YANKEE, and Toadfrog, but what British song were the bad guys humming as they planned to destroy the free world? Oh, I know! "A Nightengale Sang in BERKLEY Square!" Right, JenEllen?


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: JenEllen
Date: 31 May 01 - 06:03 AM

I for the most part agree with PeteM's earlier post. But if anyone thinks they can do better, they can try this site:defense budget

It seems that the post-war tendency was to encourage the thought that any future wars would be initiated by suprise attacks, The GermanV2 straight through to the North KoreanTaepong-1. "Don't Be Suprised" was the motto floating around the bases at the time--There was no mistake about the war going on in the rest of the world, so I fail to understand how anyone in America at the time could be 'suprised'. Nevermind that the Japanese air fleet over Pearl Harbor had been successfully detected, and it was human error ("administrative failure") that destroyed any tactical value the warnings might have had.

Building defenses only serves to feed a growing sense of vulnerability. Especially so, when the defenses do not work. THAAD testing? Boasted an 18% success rate. (That's an 82% failure rate to you folks at home). THAAD officials will insist that they can detect all decoys and countermeasures, but the 'success' record shows that deterrance that cannot protect against accidental launces, terrorist launches, etc. This is technically impractical, strategically destabilizing, and a threat to any kind of arms control measures that might be put in place. All with a 3.8 billion dollar (and rising) price tag. You put 3.8 billion dollars into isolationism and all you will be is alone.

Bless 'Em All


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DaveJ
Date: 31 May 01 - 07:00 AM

Back to music. Earlier folks attributed Bless 'em All" to Irvin Berlin. Others questioned whether he was the song writer of Bless... I was about to argue tooth and claw that Berlin was the writer but I couldn't find proof. Then I thought maybe George M. Cohan was the author. Nope! This site attributes Bless 'em All to Messers Jimmy Hughes & Frank Lake

DaveJ


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DaveJ
Date: 31 May 01 - 07:08 AM

Darn, I messed up that clickie. try this


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DaveJ
Date: 31 May 01 - 07:12 AM

Still didn't work! There is always cut and paste.

http://british-forces.com/world_war2/civil/songs/blessemall.html

DaveJ


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GeorgeH
Date: 31 May 01 - 08:06 AM

CRANKY YANKEE you just proved the accuracy of your ID. You disagree with what I didn't say, and are pretty wide of the mark in many of your comments. Immediate post-war reaction almost entirely failed to distinguish between Germany and Austria (good historic reasons for this) and held the Italians in utter contempt (whereas it at least respected Germany's military competence). Also to say the RAF made mincemeat of the Lufwaffe is to trivialise the sacrifice of the the RAF (what was the life-expectancy of a Flying Officer at the height of the Battle of Britain?) . . the two sides were fairly evenly matched, and we survived by the narrowest of margins.

And I note your studied refusal to acknowledge the contribution the Russians made to the outcome of the world war . . interesting prejudice!

Oh, and anti-semitism was never an issue DURING the war; indeed the British Government decide not to publicise Hitler's opression of the Jews for fear it would increase public sympathy for him over here.

As for the Oxford Union debate . . it reflects the intellectual mood of its time. What is more significant is how quickly that mood changed. Largely the result of propaganda effort rather than nobility of British Character, I suspect. And today it would be all too easy to whip up anti-European sentiment in this island . .

George


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GUEST,redhorse
Date: 31 May 01 - 08:46 AM

If anyone can't see why a country with a)Near infinite attack power and b)near perfect defensive shield could make its neighbours nervous .............


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Noreen
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:34 AM

(DaveJ, you just left an equals sign out of the last one) try this


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 31 May 01 - 01:45 PM

Thanks for clearing that up, DaveJ. I was one of those that thought Berlin wrote it.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DaveJ
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 05:10 AM

Noreen,

Thanks, for the html-help. Some day I'll get it.

DougR,

I was completely ready to agree with you....Guess a little humble pie and a little web surfing are good for the soul.

Berlin certainly left us many equally wonderful tunes. Actually "Bless 'em All" seems to have alternative verses that were writen from a US point of view. I ran into them somewhere on the WWW. DaveJ


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Lyndi-loo
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 05:34 AM

My Dad was in the RAF during the war and he always said that Anne Shelton was the RAF's sweetheart and Vera Lynn came second, but that the army preferred her. My Mum and Dad were courting then and because of the blackout, they had to whistle "Roll out the Barrel" at their meeting place so they could recognise each other in the dark! That of course became "their" song


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 01:53 PM

That's a great story, Lyndi-loo! The thought that you might have been conceived during a rousing rendition of "Roll out the Barrel," is a picture in the mind to be treasured! **BG**

DougR


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 10:36 AM

First time I have ever seen this particular website. Very interesting reading. As far as I am concerned, Anne Shelton was a far better singer than Vera Lynn. Vera could only do one kind of song and that was the slow sad sentimental ones that made most people cry. Not the sort of thing one needed in wartime really, whereas Anne was far more versatile and could perform any kind of song.   Sadly she is no longer with us but there are still some great cds, tapes and LPs etc. around so we can still hear that wonderful voice. Thats my opinion anyway. JIM W. East Sussex


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 11:22 AM

I might be a bit late with this but Reginald Dixon (Organist) is NOT
the same bloke as Reg Dixon (Comedian) whose sig tune was the queried Confidentially .His catch phrase wa "I'm only here for Five Minutes'

I'm Gonna Get Lit Up was composed by Hubert Grieg (composer of I belong to London) who died earlier this year.

And I will go along with Bebe Daniels as the singer , NOT Phoebe. She
was American and spent the later years of the war and the rest of the Forties in London with her husband Ben Lion - They had a BBC Radio Programme - Life with the Lions through into the fifties.

Hang Out The Washing was of course a first war song revived by F & A

Sam Browne was the vocalist with a number of top dance bands in UK in the thirties and forties .


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Megan L
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 12:32 PM

Actualy cranky Yanky ENGLAND did not hold out, the UNITED KINGDOM did there were 4 countries involved and it is disrespectful of the civilian dead of them all to mention only one.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GUEST,Karl Koenig - Running springs, CA USA
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 03:08 PM

Enjoy the site and opinions -- Does an;yone know about the song "This is Worth Fighting For" I think sinatra recored it and it almost sounds like a Scotlish style song. Thank You, Karl


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 02:34 PM

I've got a question. We watched an old episode of All Creatures Great & Small last night in which they sang Hang Out the Washing on the Siegfried Line. I found reference to it, with the chorus and at least one verse in another thread. Apparently it was George Formby song.

Anyway, what I'd like to know is why "Siegfried?" Is it a reference to Wagner or just a generic German-type name which worked well for the lyrics and sentiments of the time?

Thanks!

kat


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 03:12 PM

It was the German defensive line on its border with France.
It was their version of the French Maginot Line.
Hanging the washing on it was an English joke.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 08:17 PM

Thanks, I figure it must've been something like that, but I am still curious if they chose "Siegfried" because of Wagner's music. I did see some notes about the joke part of it with English soldiers hanging their wash on the ends of German guns.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 04:39 AM

The joke became hollow when Blitzkrieg began.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 04:43 AM

Hitler was a huge admirer of Wagner's music - Siegfried, as a name for the line, would have been an appropriate, if obvious choice.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 04:45 AM

The name was from WW1, not Hitler.
From Wiki.
The original Siegfried line (German: Siegfriedstellung) was a line of defensive forts and tank defences built by Germany as a section of the Hindenburg Line 1916–1917 in northern France during World War I. In English, Siegfried line more commonly refers to the similar World War II defensive line, built during the 1930s, opposite the French Maginot Line, which served a corresponding purpose. The Germans themselves called this the Westwall, but the Allies renamed it after the World War I line.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:30 AM

A similar song was Down On The Maginot Line, which I think was a Formby song.
The Siegfried line song was Flannagan and Allen I think.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Les from Hull
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 10:02 AM

Or the Two Leslies.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 01:13 AM

Kat ~ didn't mean they would hang the washing on the guns; you miss the point of the joke ~ not surprising, because it is UK-idiomatic. In this country, the string stretched between two poles on which damp washing is pegged out to dry ['hung out'] is called a 'clothes-line': hence "Hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line".

The words of the song BTW were by the ubiquitous Jimmy Kennedy [Red Sails In The Sunset, South Of The Border, Isle Of Capri, Teddy Bears Picnic, The Hokey Cokey...]

~Michael~

From Wikipedia ~ "We're Going to Hang out the Washing on the Siegfried Line" is a popular song written by Ulster songwriter Jimmy Kennedy, whilst he was a Captain in the British Expeditionary Force during the early stages of the Second World War. The Siegfried Line was a chain of fortifications along Germany's Western border, analogous to the Maginot Line in France. The song was used as a morale-booster during the war, particularly up to and during the Battle of France.
It began
We're going to hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line.
Have you any dirty washing, mother dear?
We're gonna hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line.
'Cause the washing day is here.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 01:19 AM

I remember [I was around at the time; too small to join in myself, but I recall my big schoolmates doing it at a lunchtime impromptu dance] a novelty dance devised to "Hang Out The Washing": the dancers did a parody goose-step around in a circle with right arms raised in a paradoxical 'Heil Hitler' salute while singing the song.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 02:10 AM

... + IIRC the left forefinger laid across upper-lip to represent the Führer's moustache


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Gurney
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 04:54 AM

In the cheapo section of places where they sell recordings you can often find VERY cheap CDs that include some of the songs that JenEllen wants. Sally Army, Hospice, and other opportunity shops sell them even cheaper, but you need to take your spectacles with you. They are never at a comfortable height to read. When Gran dies, that's where her recordings go! Online searches of big bands of the era is the easiest way to find them. Billy Cotton?
Unfortunately, the CDs are sometimes mastered from old records, so they are far from perfect.
There are two CDs of George Formby songs available, mostly from WWII, with Mr. Woo being on firewatching duty and later in the RAF among about 35 others....


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 07:34 AM

Might anyone know if it was indeed Hubert Grieg who wrote "I Belong to London"? If so, was he composer and lyricist? And when was it written? Thanks for any help.

LS


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 10:12 AM

"Clothesline" is the usual word in America as well. "Hang the washing on the line" used to be an everyday expression.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 10:13 AM

"The wash" is more common though.


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Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 04:01 PM

LS

Hubert Gregg was the one who wrote I'm Going To Get Lit Up (when the lights go up in London) and Maybe It's Because I'm A Londoner.

I'm not sure at all about I Belong To London. The only references I can find to that title are Judy Garland recordings from the late 60s of I Belong To London (and London belongs to me) and I if that's when the song originated, I think Hubert Gregg had stopped writing songs by then. I'm not sure though, so keep checking back here.

Mick


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