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BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Fiver Date: 08 Nov 01 - 05:50 PM What about me, Mudshark? I am on your side, and I said what needed to be said to Shallow Woman in a couple sentences, not a couple of run on paragraphs that no one will read(Sorry wendall, but brevity is the soul of wit)-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:46 PM Max, I'm amazed that your experience is exactly like mine. A carbon copy! One of my daughters told me in later years that she would have really resented it if I had stayed in a dead marriage for her sake. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 01 - 12:49 AM Three options in a bad relationship: 1. Work on it (this takes two, obviously). 2. Live with it. 3. Get out of it. Simple enough? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Susan from California Date: 07 Nov 01 - 10:48 PM Max, thank you for saying what I have been thinking about staying for the kids. The healthiest thing I ever did for my kids was to leave a horible marriage. I did not want my kids to see a toxic relationship as a model for what marriage should be. They now have a positive and healthy relationship as a model for marriage, and we are all the better for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Max Date: 07 Nov 01 - 09:55 PM Well, no, I am not Mudshark. I left my wife and child over 2 years ago. Went to start a thread once, not too long after I left, but never posted it. Never really talked about it here till recently. Nor have I ever posted anonymously. I am unashamedly me, always. I won't post my story, though I've told it to a few Mudcatters I've met, and probably will continue to do so. I will say this though. I was married for 8 years, committed for 10. My daughter is now 11, and yes, I'm only 29. It took everything I had to walk away. And I realize now that it was the best thing I could have done for all of us. If anything, maybe I should have done it sooner. I believe that when marriages start to go bad, the whole thing becomes incredibly and exponentially destructive. It hurts everyone involved more, and over a longer period of time to stay for reasons of responsibility or fear of what people think or guilt. The worst injustice is to sacrifice your happiness for some metaphysical concept. I could not let my child watch us be unhappy. I could not teach her that this was acceptable. I could not let her see spite, I could not let her see someone getting walked all over. I could not let her see resentment, hate. Counseling did not help us. Nor is it really necessarily supposed to. Counselors are simply well educated arbitrators. In my case, our counselor confirmed that too much was wrong to be able to fix without starting over and changing completely. It happens, and it is supposed to happen. My mechanic is supposed to fix my car, but he says it will cost more to fix than it is worth. Hell, people choose to put their beloved pets to sleep because the treatment is too expensive. Counselors can't fix everyone. Marriage is a religious concept. Marriage is a legal concept. Marriage is a moral concept. Marriage is a commitment to another, and so on. These various definitions do not agree with each other. When we get into these circumstances where things are just not working out, we get really upset and confused because of this. The whole concept is too rigid, and dogmatic. Marriage is a word. Marriage is not love. Marriage is not parenthood. Love is love, and a parent is a parent. I take care of my child. My relationship with her has improved since I left. There was resentment there before. I was unhappy in my marriage, I was married because I had a child, it's a no-brainer that there would be psychological implications. Staying for the wrong reasons is just wrong, and it cost me at least a year, maybe two, maybe more with the bond that is father and child, or mother and child for that matter. My advice? Have some balls. Sure, it is probably going to take everything you have to get do this, to get through this. But your cheating yourself, albeit slowly, and your wife and especially your child if you "tough it out" for stupid reasons. Be a real person first, one that you yourself are proud of, then everything else. All we can really ever do, especially with our children, is to show by example. Our kids will take note of that before any of our words. I want my daughter to see me for what I believe in… We are here to be happy. (period) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 07 Nov 01 - 07:58 PM I didn't expect this! No one really knows unless they are in the situation or can actually see what is happening! Shallow Woman you are 100 % wrong about me. I am very giving to my wife's kids. I knew what I was getting into and I am exactly the same person I was when we first got married. I didn't fake it. You want to take my wife's side and condemn me.That is fine but you need to know that you and some of your friends just stuck a knife in my heart! I thought i found friends but I guess not. You won't be hearing from me anymore so you guys can argue all you want .Good bye Wendall and Kendall.You made the most sense. I'm sorry I started this.Shallow woman you put down my intellegence?Perhaps I have some problems but I am not stupid.If there is any one who lacks intellegence it might as well be you for making such an offensive statement!I 'll work things out!The only two people that I want to thank is the two I mentioned earlier. I wish you much happiness.All The best,Jim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 07 Nov 01 - 12:41 PM We get what we expect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Trevor Date: 07 Nov 01 - 11:47 AM I know, let's all blame someone else for the way we feel, then we don't have to take any responsibility at all for ourselves, and not only that but we can carry on feeling yucky until THEY change. After all, to be in control of our own lives is a bit of a challenge, isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:30 PM Where are you MAX?
We and your ex are waiting for your tale.
But, you are the Mudshark, right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: wendall2 Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:49 PM Thank you shallow woman for the greater revelation of character or should I say lack thereof in yourself. Any credibility to your perspectives has been completely destroyed by the condescending air of your last entry. How sad it is that you have become so bitter. To have answered someones genuine cry for help with duplicity in a forum like this is quite beyond anything I've seen on the web. I suppose it gives you a chance to feel smug and superior. Nobody's a genius when it comes to relationships and we all put our pants on one leg at a time. Yeah, Mr. Mudshark's got some growing to do and needs to do some self-examination, but all in all I'd take his honest ignorance and lack of 'super intelligence' over your sanctimonious claptrap, anytime. You revealed a great deal more about yourself from your last paragraph than it would seem you intended. Read it very, very carefully...it is seething w/ rage and frustration. Thank God you've been blessed w/dutiful daughters. Ultimately, you didn't intend to help, but to deceive and to hurt. And as I re-read your last sentence it struck me that it's not that your advancing in years that's the real sin here, but that you're doing it with no grace. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Fiver Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:34 PM The main thing is that when you are an emotional mess, you tend to gravitate toward people who are an emotional mess--good for conversation, but bad for making lifetime commitments(and don't try to start a business with them, either)-- As for you Shallow Woman, you've got some axes of your own to grind, after you reach fifty, I guess you're entitled--but don't pass it off as advice-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Shallow woman Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:31 PM Kendall, I was referring to Mudshark's words, not yours. I did note your sympathetic comments and your sensible advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:01 PM Shallow woman, reread my other post. I did have a word of sympathy for his wife. Mudshark, if you dont remember anything that has been said before, remember this, if you split, you MUST spend some time alone. A year or two at least. You must not go into a relationship looking for what you can get from it. If you do, you will fail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Jane Doe Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:01 PM Mudshark1, The best advice I can give you is under NO circumstances get involved with ANY Mudcat wimmen except perhaps as platonic, on line friends that you never intend to meet. You don't want to cross the line and take it any further. If you do, and it doesn't work out, you will regret it, and the troubles you are currently experiencing will seem miniscule by comparison. Don't use this forum as a match making service. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: CarolC Date: 06 Nov 01 - 07:46 PM Mudshark1, you said you were in an emotionally difficult state when you met and married your current wife due to your divorce, your mother's death, and the other things you mentioned. From what you've said, it looks like the results of that were not good.
The emotional state that, based on your description, you seem to be in now, sounds like it could be described as somewhat extreme (frustrated, like a damaged ship at sea struggling to stay afloat, etc.) Based on your prior experience, and speaking from my own experience, I think it is safe to say that any involvement you get into while you're this state will be very likely to produce results that you will not be satisfied with in the long run. If you want to attract someone you can be happy with in the long run, you need to have, within yourself, the qualities that you would like to encounter in another. With the state you're in right now, there's a pretty good chance that you will attract only emotionally needy people, and it doesn't sound like that's what you really want to end up with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,shallow woman Date: 06 Nov 01 - 07:37 PM Hi Mudshark1, This doesn't often happen, but your response was almost exactly what I had expected, and goes a long way to confirm my reading of your character. The only thing was, it was a piece of deepest irony and you never noticed. The actual advice was contained in the last paragraph. My pseudonym should have given you a clue; your own words, remember? So super intelligence isn't one of your many attributes. You are obviously living in a house which is awash with unstable female hormones. Puberty and menopause are troublesome times, for the person experiencing them no less than for all within range. Nobody commands respect from a teenager for a third person. You either form a relationship or you don't. You must have known that your wife came as part of a package deal. Did you expect her just to ditch the kids? You could have been building a relationship with the children while you were courting her. Maybe she did just want somebody to support her children if their father isn't doing so. Throughout history women have done whatever is necessary to safeguard their children. I would guess, though, that she was looking more for emotional support and thought you could provide it. I would guess that you've got another five years of high drama before those girls turn into charming young women. Of course it's perfectly reasonable to insist on your own personal space, but why does there need to be a power struggle beyond that? It sounds to me as if you rushed without thought into a ready-made family and then realised that it is not what you wanted. The most honourable thing would be to tell her so and then split. Everybody else seems to be very sympathetic towards you. I'm sorry to differ, but I read your posts very carefully and found them full of self-praise – "Sensitive, affectionate, decent buckaroos, good looking". It didn't sound like a man broken in spirit. It sounded like someone who can't get his own way. On the other hand there is not a single positive or sympathetic word for your wife. Surely there must have been some reason for marrying her only three years ago. Telling her she's cold will hardly make her feel sexy. Have you tried telling her she's beautiful? If nothing else she must be pretty devastated at hitting the menopause so early. It does have a way of making you feel like a dog. How kind of you to be interested in my totally fictitious persona. If you want a relationship without all those nasty hormones I could be just right, but you'll probably need a special pair of glasses to see me. Ever since I got to fifty I've been gradually been becoming invisible (it's been years since I could get served in a bar) and can now only be detected by salesmen, Jehovah's Witnesses and my own daughters, whose support and encouragement never wavers. My greetings to your wife, and tell her from me that there are worse things than loneliness.
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Fiver Date: 06 Nov 01 - 07:29 PM Beware of this idea of yours, Mudshark: "If I had the chance to move on and find a great lady that would be my soulmate I would do it tomorrow" thinking like that will just get you into another bad situation--when you make your happiness dependent on finding or being with someone else, life will be just another ride down forty miles of bad road. Business about "my daughter's eloping with a former Latin King against my will" is a bad mindset, too--it is her life, not yours, don't tie your happiness to her doing what you want. I know the drill though, you feel very responsible for people, and you feel like you need to be involved and giving all the time--you need to figure out how to let go of all the "obligations" and "commitments" especially the ones that really only exist in your head--You need some vacation time---maybe permanent vacation time!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 06 Nov 01 - 07:05 PM Thanks Kendall, wendal and all, Your comments are well taken!I've worked hard my whole life in trying to be the best at all I do whether it be a marriage, teaching, a band or a golf game. The problem is that I am getting out of my funk since the divorce four years ago,my mothers death,my daughter's eloping with a former Latin King against my will, and a marriage promised but full of deception. I am like a damaged ship at sea struggling to stay afloat. I made wrong decisions because they were quick one's out of desparation .If I had the chance to move on and find a great lady that would be my soulmate I would do it tomorrow.It's hard to trust again after all I've been through.But you guys are right, I will look ahead and split soon! I have to do it before I lose myself!Thanks for listening you guys!I wish I could meet you all someday. I wrote a lot of songs about the things I had gone through. Ups and downs. I don't need pity, but real people and a real relationship!All The Best, JIM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 06 Nov 01 - 06:18 PM I've been single for 4 years now, and, it's not all that bad. I get to come and go as I please, I dont have another person to consider, I can stay out all night if I want, I can take off to England or almost anywhere I choose to go. My house is furnished with stuff I picked out, if I feel like driving a ten penny nail in the wall and hanging up a banjo, I damn well do it! I've learned to get along on my own. I used to cook, clean and do dishes and laundry even when I was married, so, dont have to deal with learning all that stuff. (My wife worked, I was retired, so, I did all that stuff, AND without complaining, I might add) Yes, there is a down side. Humans were never designed to be alone all the time, and that gets to be a drag.But, it sounds like you are alone now. In fact, it's worse for you, because you are married and you have no options. Hell man, you cant have it all, where would you put it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Little Neophyte Date: 06 Nov 01 - 05:03 PM Wendall2, how much do you charge per hour? You're good! Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:19 PM And furthermore mudshark, you are never too old! If you want details, PM me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: wendall2 Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:14 PM Hey Mudshark, New to the cafe and forum. Would strongly advise you to move on as it seems as though your needs aren't being met within the framework of your marriage. And I don't mean need in the needy sense, but are your efforts appreciated and does your spouse verbalize it? Do you do the same? It seems in marriage as in any endeavor you have to genuinely like the person(s) you live/work with. You have to be ruthlessly honest w/yourself and ask what attracted you to her in the first place? Do you feel safe or threatened in your home? I don't mean physically I mean emotionally? If you weren't married would you hang out w/her or her children? Is there any common ground? I would encourage you to find a place to stay w/a trusted friend until you get a place to live on your own. Sometimes it's just a matter of being comfortable with the level of not being happy and resigning ones self, which is why many stay in situations in which they are unhappy, It's scarey to be alone, but then you've got room to move around, do your own laundry(not that you don't now), pick out your own curtains and eat what you want. It seems that you've never treated yourself well. Maybe I'm being a bit general, but you're entitled to fulfillment, at least and it truly doesn't sound like that's the case. Don't feel guilty, she's probably as miserable as you and it's obvious her children are. You all may breathe a huge sigh of relief if and/or when you take the step. I read almost all of the comments contained herein and the reason I responded was that for the most part folks related and genuinely have tried to be helpful. You're not alone in this world just alone in your situation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Fiver Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:00 PM Mudshark, I saw the Mothers on that tour in '71, and saw the Mudshark number, live--and for once, the "Live" album caught the energy and excitement of the show--and of course, as a long time Turtles/Flo&Eddie Fan, the Mothers version of "Happy Together" was one one the highpoints of my life! Shallow Woman, you better dig up a copy of that album, so you hnow what you're getting in to! As to your marriage, only you know how bad it really is, but the signs aren't good--if you are only married because you afraid that you are too old to be interesting to women, forget it--there are a lot of interesting and attractive women out there who are unattached, from ages 17 on up(I won't say anymore about that)--I am about the same age as you, a musician, chronically broke, with bad credit(my 2nd wife put my name on her student loans when I was unconscious in the hospital, and opened dozens of charge accounts in my name) and I have plenty of inquiries. I am careful not to make promises that I can't keep, which is hard to manage sometimes, but I don't mind sleeping alone--
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 05 Nov 01 - 09:28 PM Hi Guest Shallow Woman, Thank you for your thoughts!Please contact me privately as soon as you can! I would love to find out more about you!If you are interested? We seem to be on the same page!!!I'm interested |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Shallow woman Date: 05 Nov 01 - 07:53 PM Mudshark1. What are you waiting for? You obviously don't have a marriage. It's time to split. As the counsellors say, let's list the pros and cons. You are extremely affectionate, earn decent buckaroos, would die for the right woman and you're good looking. She, on the other hand couldn't care less, hasn't got a clue, didn't command respect from her unbearable children (and you a teacher too) and is having an early menopause. You should obviously just leave. There is no need to feel guilty about the children. After all they are not yours. But you say you hate being alone and walking out alone is a bit like jumping off a cliff (I know). Perhaps it would be better to take a leaf out of Guest Guest's book and start an affair. A man with your attributes shouldn't have a problem. Get a younger woman who won't hit the menopause until about the time you start having trouble with your prostate, then she'll be able to sympathise with you. When the affair's well established you can just tell your wife and leave immediately. Or you could try being totally honest about your feelings and listen to her point of view. Then you will be able to make the most amicable arrangements possible. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Sledge Date: 05 Nov 01 - 09:59 AM Guest,Guest I am horrified at the way you live such a decietful life. Its taken me a few days to think what I could possibly say but I don't have the words. I have found some that come close though. I was in a position similar to your Husbands and the discovery of the lie damn near destroyed me. Natalie Merchant "seven years"
How did I love you?
so warm and insightful
but for seven years
for seven years
you were
I've got my sight now
but for seven years
for seven years
for seven years
you were |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Anne Date: 04 Nov 01 - 09:25 AM Hi Mudshark 1, . It's easy to say, but don't worry about your age. I'm 42 & thinking over the last year, I've found the men that I've been drawn to are 47, 53 & 54. If you have decided to start a new relationship, disentangle yourself & go for it 100 %, what makes the person who they are is the most important factor by miles. Best wishes, Anne |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 04 Nov 01 - 09:07 AM Try a little empathy man! remember, a soft answer turneth away wrath. She cant help what's going on with her body, and, if you appear to be more interested in some ball throwing thing, no wonder she nags! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 04 Nov 01 - 02:38 AM hey Kendall, If that is true I'm gonna buy a bus this time.My wife was nasty tonight! Bad enough I had to watch my Yankees get creamed.She has been nagging me all day! She's 44 and going through menopause. Wanna try something different?Next time when your in the sack play Brewer and Shipley's Witchi Ti Ti. Honest to God it will act as an Aphrodisiac! It's even better than Ravel's Bolero. You know... in 10 with Bo Derek.Now I don't do drugs but tried a little herb called Yohimbe the other day.Made love....knocked the struts off the headboard clear off.Don't do this too much because it will make you hyper and may elevate your blood pressure a little.On a rare occasion this can be an explosive experience.Remember the wise words of Greg Maddox who pitches for the Braves said "the chicks dig the long ball!!!!".So make it go a looong time!Whenever we can get the luxury of getting to bat!sh sh sh sh sh sh sh shark!
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 03 Nov 01 - 08:40 PM Only on one thing Doug! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: DougR Date: 03 Nov 01 - 01:55 PM Sounds to me, Guest Guest, that you have thought the whole thing through, and decided the route you want to take. Good luck, and Godspeed, I say! Shark: you gonna take lessons from a guy that's 400 years off? Geeze, you are desperate. :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,GUEST Date: 03 Nov 01 - 07:56 AM Why did I get married? because I found a nice man who I could live with, have interesting conversations with, who could bring up our kids in a nice stable financially secure environment, and who wasn't going to be violent or run off with anyone else. Why do I choose to have affairs ? to keep me sane and to provide the romance that he can't. I didn't marry him for that bit. I havn't had the same other man for 16 years I've met 3. The current one has lasted for 5 years and is going strong. The others just moved away cos of jobs etc - we are still in touch. The current man and I meet regularly but even the friends who are part of our social group don't know. They may have an idea but to them we are just good friends, fellow musicians. We get away on our own for the occasional night or two a few times a year but mostly when other people are around we are just friends (and get by with a lot of inuendoes and secret signs!) and save the rest til we are alone. AND IT IS BRILLIANT!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 03 Nov 01 - 06:49 AM The Anneagram has different authors, some are better than others. Just go to a good book store and compare, then pick the one you like best. I loaned mine to someone(as I'm wont to do) and havn't gotten it back. Now, I dont remember who has it! So, you are 49, and, worried that no one will want you? I'd like to be 49 again! An old friend of mine used to sell used cars, and, he had a saying, "There is an ass for every seat." Dani, maybe I should be giving lessons? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 03 Nov 01 - 12:44 AM Oh My God! What did I start.I hope this isn't going to be the "he man woman haters club" All you ladies out there,I'm sure you are great people. I hopeyou understand that from a man's point of view the issues are frightening.Take care of each other the best you can and don't ever stop trying.I hate being alone. Lost my mom around the same time of my divorce so I was quite vulnerable.Basically I'm alone in this marriage and need to bail out.I'm just afraid at 49 that no one will want me.Even if I am a good looking guy so they say!I believe that when people age they learn to cope because there is no hope of fixing there marriage. For those of you who stayed married for a long time I admire you don't get me wrong. But did you stay together for the right reasons and not out of fear of being alone?I hope this isn't the case.Well.See you guys. Sh Sh Sh Sh Shark!Mudshark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 03 Nov 01 - 12:27 AM Hi Guest Fiver and Kendall, THanks for the input!Kendal,what is the exact name and author of the book?Sounds interesting. You have a lot of cool insights to things. Philosophies and metaphors.Thanks it really helped me. As a matter of fact I want to thank all that responded to me and gave me ideas.I hope I can help you someday.Are all of you musicians?I teach music in a public school and play music professionally.I write as well.I mention Roger Mcguinn to be my favorite but I also play a lot of jazz and blues. Kind of like Larry Carlton.Yet I love it all! Guest Fiver you broke the code with the Zappa thing!I can't believe someone out there got the Mudshark thing.(Mothers Of Invention Live At THe Fillmore 71)I'll be damned!Anyway you hit it on the head about supporting her kids.One is 15, the other 17. Both need an exorcist. I tried my hardest to be nice to the these last few years. My wife promised she would pave the way for me and command respect from them.She didn't follow through and as a result we have a power struggle in the house. I swear to God I'm living in hell.This is my second marriage and as a tip for those who get divoced,,,,TAKE YOUR TIME.DON'T RUSH! Ant this advice is for everyone male and female!I jumped trhe gun and didn't look at things from a third person perspective.I'm doing alright though. I'm just not living my life to the fullest.I still have a hot libido but try doing it with an iceberg! (how's that Kendal?)I am practicing not being victimized and she doesn't like it! She just assumes that her kids can get away with being terrorists in the marriage! Enough of this!Anybody out there at anytime needs to talk,I'm here and willin'Take care you guys.Mudshark.....sh sh sh sh sh shark! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Shall Date: 02 Nov 01 - 11:58 PM A friend shared a very interesting true story about a couple he knows that live close to New York City. On September 11, the husband departed for work, as usual, to his office located in the World Trade Center. She loaded the kids into the car and drove them to school. When she got back home, she turned on the TV. We all know what happen that morning. She was stunned, frantic, calling everyone she knew, worried sick about her dear husband. She knew from the TV, if he was in his office, that he was most likely dead. She stayed near the phone waiting for some word. At three o'clock the phone rang. She picked up the phone and her husband said "Hi honey, how's it going." She was so happy to hear his voice, and responded "Where are you? Are you okay? I have been worried sick about you". He replied, "I have been at the office working all day". Truth of the matter,he never made it to work that day. He was with another woman. The affair saved his life. Now the question, will his marriage survive. Too soon to know.
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 02 Nov 01 - 10:43 PM So, I'm off a few years, 400 or so, the main point here is the contents of the book, The Anneagram. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Fiver Date: 02 Nov 01 - 08:00 PM Mudshark, I wanna hear your single with the bullet--Seriously, I re-read your initial post--If she told you to split--it may be that she doesn't want what you have to give--personally, any woman that would want to be with you just to get close to that McGuinn Rickenbacker twelve, but I guess I am not the most tuned in to what women need. How old are her daughters? It could be that she went looking for a man purely for someone to support the kids. Not cool to say that it happens, but it does. I worked with a divorced woman who had two teenage daughters(her first husband had been a musician) and she joined an exlusive health club in an expensive suburb, to meet someone who could support her and her kids--she drove 40 minutes everyday, worked out in full make-up, and sure enough, she met a guy with money. She told everybody, but him, that it was just for the money, too. He's still got a lot of money, so the marriage is solid as a rock. Meanwhile, Kendall, there were no Sufis 2000 years ago, they are Islamic mystics! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: CarolC Date: 02 Nov 01 - 06:56 PM Well, good luck with it, Mudshark1. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: kendall Date: 02 Nov 01 - 06:38 PM The Anneagram is a study of basic personalities. It was developed by the Sufis 2000 years ago. It can be found in any bookstore. I'm alright? tell it to my ex wife! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 02 Nov 01 - 06:05 PM HiCarol, That's O.k.,Im just frustrated as hell.Maybe I was a bit general anyways.I am a good person who has to find happiness somehow. I probably will never have an affair when push comes to shove.I'm just frightened by my age(49) and don't want to make any MORE mistakes. I just wish I could have a life where I am happy and have a soulmate who is honest and willing to be apart of me. That's all. And it is getting late in life for me to act like I'm 30 with many years to go. By the way, I'm a huge Roger Mcguinn fan. I play his music a lot, have a 12 string Rickenbacker signed by him.Also a huge beachboy fan. Check out Surf's Up! or Long Promised Road! Those songs really pick me up when I'm down. Kendall...What is a Anneagram no. 9. Sounds like a colonoscopy!!!!Honest to God Kendall... Your alright! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 02 Nov 01 - 05:50 PM Hey Guest,Guest,talk to me. I'm thinking about it.I've been through the counseling thing and found the therapists to be more hung up than I am . They tend to experiment,then create stuff that isn,t real.Meanwhile I lay awake and fantasize about how great it would be to find a woman on thwe same page.Talk to me! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: CarolC Date: 02 Nov 01 - 05:47 PM Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions, Mudshark1. Your original post to this thread and a similar post to another thread read a little like a bio in a personals ad. So they come across to some of us like someone who might be cruising. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Mudshark1 Date: 02 Nov 01 - 05:36 PM Hey,Guest mlc and Lost in America, Thanks for your thoughts. I bet there are many out there that don'y have the balls to admit what we all are saying.We all got tricked by false promises by our spouses. It isn,t right because I know I'm real and giving. I would die for the right woman who could just be who they say they are and don't lie about it years later with kids as their sheild. As for all the woman out there who think I am women surfing...your full of it big time! You missed the whole point and are shallow as to not understand what I was talking about.We have heavy crosses to bear with our wives who took advantage of us and the courts are to fault by not listening and giving us justice that we deserve in the divorce courts.If we hung on to our marriage for our kids we made a huge sacrifice.Most of the bad marriages have women hanging on to the sheild of guilt that they have bringing the kids into the picture.I hope you guys find happiness somehow through your music. But you deserve a woman who can work with you instead of against you. You desrve better and don't blame you if you find it.We are getting too old for this crap.Keep in touch guys. And by the way, my nickname was mudshark from the Frank Zappa days.I'm not trying to intimidate anyone.Please don'nt get on my name I get on yoursif you like!Lighten up for God Sakes |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Fiver Date: 02 Nov 01 - 01:46 PM Don't understand why you would stay married to someone who isn't interested in you as a woman, when you obviously need someone to be interested in you as a woman. As to being the best of friends, friends don't need to keep secrets from one another. As it stands, you don't know how your husband feels about this, and don't seem to care--you get what you want--You said that you " would probably just end up in another stagnant marriage." There is only one person to blame if that happens, and that is yourself--Why are you married, why did you marry, why even think about marriage, if you are unwilling to make and keep the committments? I have been around the block a few times, and seen a few like you on the trip--sooner or later, the reckoning comes, and it generally is pretty unpleasant-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Noreen Date: 02 Nov 01 - 11:45 AM Wise words, Trevor my friend- you just summed up my life in two and a half paragraphs... Noreen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: Trevor Date: 02 Nov 01 - 11:32 AM I've always thought that one tolerates a situation because it isn't intolerable. When it is, you do something about it. So one needs to figure out where, on the continuum of ecstacy - total, complete and absolute misery one is situated 'cos that can at least tell you how prepared one should be for the inevitable aggro that comes with the ending of a relationship, no matter how horrible it has become. The other thing that has become apparent to me (two divorces and a couple of, what I considered to be important, relationships) is that if a relationship is based on need, rather than want, ('how am I going to survive without a partner/my kids around me/security' and so on) then it is flawed. Get away from being reliant on other people for your happiness and explore your own resources - that means that you can take full responsibility for your own misery and stick with it if you like the attention it brings. Or, of course, make some happiness for yourself. Amazing what you resources you'll find if you start having a real good look inside yourself - and you'll realise what a waste of breath your excuses to yourself have been. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,GUEST Date: 02 Nov 01 - 11:15 AM Don't get me wrong guys. I am best of friends with my husband. It's just the mundane domestic side that gets you down. He's not interested much in me as a woman and never really has been. We got hitched because we have a great friendship..... so maybe he does have an idea but chooses not to worry about it. It's not affecting our friendship and it is wonderful to have someone to be romantic with. Every time we meet it is like starting over. My lover is in a similar situation. Neither of us would wish to leave our homes and realise that if we did we would probably just end up in another stagnant marriage. An affair isn't a marriage substitute it's an addition! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: GUEST,Fiver Date: 01 Nov 01 - 11:47 AM I missed your post before, GUEST GUEST, but I wonder if you ever thought about why your husband isn't responding to the fact that you have been carrying on for all these years? Don't kid yourself, on some level, he does know-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Musicians who have the bad marriage blue From: DougR Date: 01 Nov 01 - 11:08 AM I genuinely fear for my mental health. I agree, AGAIN, with Kendall. GUEST GUEST, at some point I have to believe that your extramarital relationship is going to affect your married life. It's amazing after fourteen years that it hasn't already. A one-night stand like the one Jeri describes is one thing, but a fourteen year relationship with the same person is another. Just having to "cover up" the other relationship is a terrible burden, I would think. And it is difficult for me to believe that your spouse doesn't know, or suspect something by now. I think before one takes Guest Guest's advice he or she should ask themselves, 'If I lose my marriage over this other relationship, will it be worth it?' Another question: 'How would I feel if I found out that my spouse is having an affair with someone?' Sorry if I sound preachy, but I'm one who really believes in trying to make a marriage work, and I think it takes two to do that. If it simply can't work ...get out of it. DougR |