Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: GUEST,Lynn
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 11:23 AM

If you'd like to hear a great new version of the song, check out Robin and Linda Williams' new CD, produced by Garrison Kiellor. Sorry but I don't remember the name of it off hand - lots of great old songs on it, though.

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Louie Roy
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 11:25 AM

I believe the Myrtle that is referred to in the song is actually the Myrtle Wood Tree that grows wild on the Southern Oregon Coast,Northern California Coast and India

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 11:53 AM

so what's the Texas connection? Maybe it was just popular in Texas???

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 02:41 PM

Versions of the song were heard throughout the country, Texas no exception. There are local variants.
Interpreting "myrtle" ain't easy. The true myrtle is an Asian shrub (including the common myrtle grown in England, the States,etc.). These plants came to America in colonial times. The name also has been applied in the States to the Old World periwinkle (many dogbane woody plants). It has been given to the California laurel (Umbellularia) which is not the laurel of Europe). Then there is crepe myrtle which is grown in the South. It also is applied by some to the purple-blue to pinkish flowering shrub (Kalmia or mountain laurel) of North America.
Names and plants were brought to America in colonial times and were widely used, becoming naturalized if the environment was suitable; moreover, if something native "looked" like what was called a myrtle where the people came from, the name was applied.

Subject: Lyr Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER (Nova Scotia)
From:
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 06:09 PM

H E L P !!!!

Back about 1950, in Nova Scotia, Canada, we sang the song
'WILDWOOD FLOWER' quite a bit; I notice that our LYRICS
are much different from the Carter Family, etc.

ANYONE KNOW THE ORIGIN OF THE LYRICS WE HAVE???? WHO
MIGHT HAVE RECORDED IT WITH THOSE LYRICS????? HERE THEY
ARE;

WILDWOOD FLOWER

She is waiting for me in a rose colored bower,
And her eyes are like violets after a shower,
For she's dreaming of dreams through the long summer hours,
my sweetheart, my own, my frail wildwood flower.

All the wild forest creatures are under her spell,
On her shoulder the dove it's love secrets will tell,
And the wild dappled fawn comes to lie at the feet,
of my frail, wildwood flower, So gentle and so sweet.

I will pick tender blossoms to twine in her hair,
lovely roses so red and the lilies so fair,
Lovely myrtle so bright with the emerald hue,
Buttercups yellow, forget-me-nots blue

There's no artist can paint her, no poet can write,
How she warms this old heart like the sunbeams so bright,
I will love and protect her and never more part,
From that frail wildwood flower that twines around my heart.

YOUR HELP WILL BE MUCH APPRECIATED.
Gladys

---

Answer in this thread (click).

Subject: RE: 1950 Nova Scotia ~ Wildwood Flower'
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 06:26 PM

The way I've heard the story, the Carter version is based on an old parlor song, "I'll Twine Mid the Ringlets." I've seen the lyrics to it and they're not the same as you've posted. Somebody other than the Carters may have revised the song into the one you sang in the '50s, or it may be a revision of the Carter revision. Somebody more knowledgeable should be along shortly to solve the mystery.

Subject: Lyr Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER (Nova Scotia)
From:
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 11:15 PM

Has A N Y O N E ever heard THIS VERSION of 'Wildwood Flower'???????

(In Nova Scotia, Canada, early 1950's - live Performances, kitchen
parties, etc - this is the only version I ever heard; in Ontario,
Canada, now and still hear this version. DOES ANYONE KNOW THIS
VERSION OR W H E R E IT CAME FROM???? It is VERY DIFFERENT from
the Carter Family version.
My EMAIL ADDRESS IS
[e-mail]
if anyone can help me out.

THE LYRICS WE KNOW FOR
"WILDWOOD FLOWER":

She is waiting for me in a rose colored bower,
And her eyes are like violets after a shower,
For she's dreaming of dreams through the long summer hours,
my sweetheart, my own, my frail wildwood flower.

All the wild forest creatures are under her spell,
On her shoulder the dove it's love secrets will tell,
And the wild dappled fawn comes to lie at the feet,
of my frail, wildwood flower, So gentle and so sweet.

I will pick tender blossoms to twine in her hair,
lovely roses so red and the lilies so fair,
Lovely myrtle so bright with the emerald hue,
Buttercups yellow, forget-me-nots blue

There's no artist can paint her, no poet can write,
How she warms this old heart like the sunbeams so bright,
I will love and protect her and never more part,
From that frail wildwood flower that twines around my heart.

Gladys

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Joe_F
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 08:47 PM

Where does it say that amanita can be a flower name? Amanita is the name of a genus of mushrooms, of which the most notorious is Amanita phalloides, which (in the words of John Collier) combines the liveliest of forms with the deadliest of substances. The notion of a lady decking her hair with poisonous phalluses in memory of a treacherous lover does have a certain charm, but plausibility forbids.

Islip is the name of a town in Oxfordshire, England, and one named after it on Long Island, New York. It does not appear in the OED as the name of a flower or anything else.

Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER (from Lee Moore)
From: Inükshük
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 03:46 PM

Well, here's Lee Moore's version as I transcribed from one of his records. I'd sure like to hear Doc Williams version.

WILDWOOD FLOWER
as per Lee Moore

She is [G] waiting for me in a [D7] rose covered [G] bower
And her eyes are like violets [D7] after a [G] shower
For she's dreaming of me through the [C] long summer [G] hours
My sweetheart, my own, my [D7] frail wildwood flower.


All the wild forest creatures are under her spell.
On her shoulder the dove his love secrets will tell
And the shy dappled fawn comes to lie at the feet
Of my frail wildwood flower, so gentle and so sweet.


I will pick tender blossoms to twine in her hair;
Blushing roses so red and the lilies so fair,
Lovely myrtle so bright with emerald hue,
Modest buttercups yellow, forget-me-nots blue.


Hand in hand through the wildwood together we'll stray,
She will sing, she will dance and my heart she will sway,
And her laughter will echo like ripples at play
Till my trials like my heart has stolen away.

---

I moved this message here from another thread about "The Cat Came Back," where it had been posted by mistake. Note that it answers the question from Gladys above - I sent Gladys an e-mail.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER (from Lee Moore)
From: GUEST,Gladys........ MY ~2002 Request
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM

MANY, MANY THANKS to
"Joe Offer"
who, on Jan. 23, 2004, sent me the thread for the lyrics for
Wildwood Flower...AS WE KNEW IT, NOT THE CARTER FAMILY VERSION.
JOE OFFER NOTICED A POST FROM ONE INUKSHUK JAN. 20/04. (It was posted under lyrics for 'Cat Came Back' and Joe Offer redirected me to the thread)
THANKS SO VERY MUCH !!!!
GLADYS

and HERE IT IS......
"Well, here's Lee Moore's version as I transcribed from one of his records. I'd sure like to hear Doc Williams version."

WILDWOOD FLOWER
as per Lee Moore

She is [G] waiting for me in a [D7] rose covered [G] bower
And her eyes are like violets [D7] after a [G] shower
For she's dreaming of me through the [C] long summer [G] hours
My sweetheart, my own, my [D7] frail wildwood flower.


All the wild forest creatures are under her spell.
On her shoulder the dove his love secrets will tell
And the shy dappled fawn comes to lie at the feet
Of my frail wildwood flower, so gentle and so sweet.


I will pick tender blossoms to twine in her hair;
Blushing roses so red and the lilies so fair,
Lovely myrtle so bright with emerald hue,
Modest buttercups yellow, forget-me-nots blue.


Hand in hand through the wildwood together we'll stray,
She will sing, she will dance and my heart she will sway,
And her laughter will echo like ripples at play
Till my trials like my heart has stolen away.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:19 PM

Gladys got an e-mail back from Rose the Record Lady, who apparently had two Lee Moore recordings of Wildwood Flower. One was the well-known Carter Family version, and the other (She is waiting for me in a rose covered bower) is titled "New Wildwood Flower."
I gather that the tune is the same - can anybody verify that? songwriter for "new" is still a mystery.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 05:48 PM

Never heard of an "Islip" as a flower. There's "Cowslip", if course. Our cowslips are yellow, but evidently the American Cowslip is a different plant - here is a picture of one. Not exactly blue, but maybe they vary.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: GUEST,zolstead
Date: 18 Jun 04 - 03:07 PM

http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/generic_frame.html?Hyss_off.html "Hyssop so blue"

Subject: Aronatus -- RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: GUEST,Bramicus
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 02:07 PM

I believe this flower's name was formed from two Latin words, aro (plow, till, cultivate; produce by plowing) and natus (be produced spontaneously, come into existance/being; spring forth, grow).

Hence, the aronatus would have been a wildflower that grew spontaneously from recently tilled soil.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:54 AM

Branicus, your Latin is satisfactory, but I'm afraid spontaneous generation was disproven near the time of the Middle Ages.

No one has ever identified what plant Irving and Webster meant by 'pale aronatus with eyes of bright blue.' They may have invented this flower to rhyme with 'The myrtle so bright with an emerald hue.'

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: GUEST,Maggie
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:54 PM

I always was taught growing up from my father that it was aronatus and that that was as in reference to calling someone an angel. "Pale aronatus with eyes of bright blue." We have always had the song as an oral tradition through my family, as others, that was passed around the Appalachian Mountains. It's pronunciation origin, like most Appalachian pronunciations in the area my family comes from, is mingled with Old English and Irish.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: GUEST,Eric Bram
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:45 AM

Well, Q, obviously spontaneous generation doesn't occur, as we all know (perhaps you were being facetious or just playful in calling me on that). But from the Latin it makes sense to me that the word "aronatus" -- "created by plowing" (not "born of the plow"; that would be "aratronatus", as John Dyson of Indiana University points out) -- would refer to a wildflower that seems to spring up almost overnight from freshly plowed soil. That fits in with the backwoods spirit of the song, too. And that's the way I sing it.

- Eric Bram (Bramicus)

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower/define the word emanita
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 06 - 05:53 PM

these lyrics were written by lee moore. he was a member of the wheeling jamboree, and he did the night show as the coffee drinking nighthawk. I loved listening to him when i was a kid in Nove scotia. he would play and sing every night live on air with his guitar and spun records all night. this was back in the late fifties early sixties. I got to see him live at the the edison hotel in toronto about 1969, he was just as good as on the radio. I am rambling on but i hope this help you a bit. yours truly Guy Melanson Http://www.guymelanson.com

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower/define the word emanita
From: Bill D
Date: 22 May 06 - 07:03 PM

"these" lyrics? Which lyrics? Lee Moore certainly didn't write the original song. Almost everyone has sung the song, so there are many, many versions and interpretations.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower/define the word emanita
From: jaze
Date: 23 May 06 - 02:08 PM

The Joan Baez Songbook lists the line as "I'll twine with my mingles of raven black hair". And Genie- I don't think I'll ever hear "Take It Easy" the same way again! ROTFLMAO

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower/define the word emanita
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 05:46 AM

I heard John Carter Cash talking about this on CMT and he said that one word that A.P. Carter recorded incorrectly was eyes instead of iris.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower/define the word emanita
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 11:28 AM

Back then, they mostly just sang the songs according to what they thought they heard....wasn't too much 'research' going on.
Why, even Mudcat had to be typed out on an old typewriter and corrected with white-out. Sometimes it took weeks for a page to be carried down to the post office and mailed to the next member for comment! ...and 'guests' would lay traps and hijack the mail and alter the words. Maybe that's where 'eyes' instead of 'Iris' got in?

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower/define the word emani
From: Kaleea
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 05:31 PM

"I'll Twine 'Mid the Ringlets" (1860)
(aka: Wildwood Flower)

                                                                     
Music by Joseph Philbrick Webster, 1819-1875
                                                                                             
Words by Maud Irving

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: GUEST,fatmama
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 10:26 PM

anyone consider these are plants of medicinal (poisonous) origin and islip could be hyssop? or hyacinth. maybe she planned on getting even!!!! or stoned. remember laudanum?

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:54 PM

The speculation is pointless.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower
From: autoharper
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:01 PM

The melody we call "The Wildwood Flower" has always seemed (to me) similar to the melody of "Bony on St. Helena" (AKA "Buonaparte").
-Adam Miller

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,John Hempel
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM

Regardless of what someone wrote in 1860, it's pretty obvious that that was probably a botched transcription of something going much farther back. Two notes: a) I passed this along to Fred Bartenstein and he read them on his Banks of the Ohio show a few yrs back. b) I feel some personal connection to this song since the first time I first heard it was when Maybelle played it on her autoharp on our highschool stage (Jefferson High, Annandale VA, in the spring of 1966 or 67). Besides the autoharp, I remember she had these really cool hightop, lace-up boots. One of the history teachers there, Mr. Blevins, was active in a folk music organization and arranged for her to come play for our American Civilization classes.

If you accept that we're talking about wild roses and lily of the valley, all the flowers below are of a size suitable for entwining in a girl's hair, too.

I'll entwine and co-mingle my raven black hair
With the roses so red and the lilies so fair
And the myrtle so bright with its emerald hue
The pale angelica and violets so blue.

(Ordinarily, you accent the second syllable of Angelica, but switch to the third and all is resolved.)

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:40 AM

I just searched for this on the sheet music sites I know of:

Library of Congress
Indiana University
Lester Levy

None of them seemed to have it. Anybody know of any other sources?

From what I can tell on this thread, nobody's seen the sheet music. It's unfair to call the 1860 song 'botched' when we don't even know what lyrics it had.

Me, I don't care what the flowers are, because to me the joy of the song lies in its wonderful melody.

PS We gardeners often speak of flowers having eyes. Certain varieties of phlox, for instance.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,John Hempel
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:35 PM

@ leeneia: Well, if you had first read or at least skimmed the comments in this thread, as I did before I posted, you'd find the 1860 lyrics, with source. Search for aronatus – you'll come to it.   And then why is it unfair to call something botched if it makes no sense? That is the whole reason for this thread.   It's well known that AP Carter roamed the hollows of southwest VA and beyond, collecting songs, but I've never heard anyone claim that he had any understanding of plants. If he got Wildwood Flower from one of his expeditions, I suspect that he wrote as close to what he was hearing and let it go at that. He liked the melody, like you.   But some people find greater appreciation from both the music and lyrics that they can understand.   It's called visual imagery.   What I tried to come up with are lyrics that phonetically approximate the Carter lyrics while keeping the flowers as common as possible.   Since my first post I've noted that Iris Dement, who I like a lot, has lyrics that are better that the Carters, but IMHO still fall short in the broadly understood category (hyssop perhaps (altho more known as an herb and native to Asia & the Mediterranean, but as noted above, emanita??)

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 07:49 PM

The lyrics can be found in pdmusic:
Ill twine mid the ringlets

Leeneia, I skimmed the thread and missed it too. Genie posted them. And since aronatus, whatever Maud Irving had in mind, will never be known, it is pointless to speculate.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the
From: GUEST,Owen
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 01:20 PM

I believe that the most common misheard words are: Emerald dew, should be, emerald hue. Wavin black hair, should be, raven black hair. The pale and the leader, with eyes so blue, should be, the pale oleander and violets so blue.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 10:26 AM

Hi Owen,
See my post from 11 Apr. We agree on all but oleander - good!

But, I think angelica, accenting the third syllable, is a far better deduction than oleander, and here's why, both phonetically and botanically. In all of this, keep in mind that AP Carter traveled into remote hollows in the '20s to transcribe these songs, many of which had been passed down by oral tradition - he could often only write what he heard - there was no songbook.

Now, phonetically, I don't see a misunderstood word starting O being replaced with one starting with A. The sounds are just to common and distinct. Plus, the d in 'and' is rarely pronounced. Now run the first two together in comparison - An'ge / An'(dt)h' There is no contest with that vs. 'O le' - the 'le' doesn't come till the third syllable, and both 'an'ge'li-' and 'an' th' le-' match. Oleander only wins on the last syllable, but the score may not be that overwhelming in that frame. I've lately noticed that many English and New Englanders put an r on the end of words ending in a vowel, so it seems not that unlikely that at some point angeli-ca became angeli-ker.

Now, botanically, the first thing you read about oleander is that IT IS POISONOUS, and apparently more than just a little. It's also non-native (to either the US or England), and thus NOT A WILDFLOWER. Then, have a look at angelica and oleander. Which, aesthetically, seem more appropriate to put in one's raven black hair.

If you knew how angelica is ordinarily pronounced but you'd never heard the song, and someone handed you these lyrics, I think you'd pretty quickly figure that you'd accent the third syllable to make it all work. But if you knew nothing of the plant (as, I suppose AP didn't) and heard it accented on the wrong syllable to boot, it seems to me that you could pretty easily write 'And the Leader' in place of 'AngeLIca' with barely a shrug, and keep writing.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,John Hempel
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 10:29 AM

Oops to the above, make that 21 April, and it seems I forgot to enter my name, too.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 02:24 PM

Someday I'd like to find what I mentioned before: the original sheet music (if any) for this song. It would be nice to see the lyrics, the melody and the accompaniment. Even the cover art. Sometimes when we do that, we get an interesting surprise.

So John, climb down. I saw Genie's words. No post posted by someone 150 years later is as good as the original sheet music.

Maybe if I find the song in an antique store, I could put it up for sale for $135,000,000, just like Mr. Lehman (see other thread on that.)

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 01:34 PM

Leeneia, the "source" at pdmusic indicates a Library of Congress Call Number.
I looked at the records that they have online (nothing by Maud Irving) but several songs by J. P. Webster, in three catalogues, but "I'll twine...." not listed.

Try communicating with them using the Call number listed at pdmusic, M1621.W. Their catalogues are not complete, as I found in another search, and items do get "misplaced.".

If you can't find it there, keep hunting and good luck!
I hunted all over for the original "My Pretty Quadroon" and found it in a library in Chicago (I had to give a donation, but they were prompt and sent a complete scan of the sheet music).

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 07:54 PM

Thanks for the hints on searching, Q.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,reynardine
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:25 AM

Still haven't figured out about ameliter/emelita/ amanita (tho had a good laugh at poison phalluses), but "eyes' look" has been a folkloric name for dayflower - the truest of true blues- tradescantia, its slightly more indigo relative, and chicory, an introduced member of the daisy family, whose flowers are a delightful baby blue. All of these have flexible stems, easily twined and mingled with hair of any color, and all close a bit after noon. There is a composite called emilia with a suitably flexible stem. Usually it's brilliant red, but according to Bailey's Hortus Second, one species has a white or pale pink variety.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:22 PM

Emilia in the southeastern U. S. is the introduced E. sonchifolia, found is South Carolina, Georgia and farther south (its normal color is lilac), or the also introduced E. fosbergii found in Texas-Louisiana and California (also lilac to purplish). Both have the common name "tasselflower."

As to what was meant in the songs, this is just idle speculation.

Subject: Lyr Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER
From: GUEST,Buffalo
Date: 21 May 12 - 12:01 AM

Here's my version, put together from some of the lyrics above and others. The first verse is as I saw it in a very unofficial old folk song book in probably the late fifties. The rest is, as I said, a mix of many versions and maybe a word here and there I stuck in to help with the flow. I had no better luck than the rest of you with botanical reference to emanita or islip.

WILDWOOD FLOWER

I will twine and will mingle my waving black hair
With the roses so red and the lilies so fair
The myrtle so green with an emerald hue
The pale emanita and islip so blue

Oh he taught me to love him and promised to love
To cherish me always, all others above
I woke from my dreaming, my idol was clay
All passion for living had all flown away

He promised to love me and called me his flower
A blossom to cheer him thru life's weary hour
How my heart now is breaking, no mis'ry can tell
He left with no warning, no words of farewell

I will sing, I will dance, and my life shall be gay
I'll banish this weeping, drive sorrow away
Tho my heart now is aching, he never shall know
How his name makes me tremble, my pale cheeks to glow

I will sing, I will dance, and my life shall be gay
I will charm every heart in the crowd I survey
I'll live yet to see him regret the dark hour
He loved and neglected this frail wildwood flower

Repeat first verse

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:22 PM

That makes much more sense, Buffalo, and is grammatical to boot. But I'm not going to change how I sing it.

"I woke from my dream, and all idols was clay..."

I would miss the naive and unworldly damsel from up the holler too much.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Genie
Date: 09 Jun 12 - 02:32 AM

This is supposed to be a MIDI of the original (J P Webster) tune to "I'll Twine 'Mid The Ringlets". It does resemble what most of us know today as "Wildwood Flower" but it seems to have changed a good deal over the past 150 years.


BTW, on the pdmusic.org website I did not find the lyrics.

Genie


PS,
After singing "emelita" or "emanita" and "islip" for a number of years, I've decided to go with "the pale oleander and violets so blue," because of the sound of those words and because I'm not sure there are flowers called "emelita" or "emanita" or "islip" or whether any of those are blue.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 12 - 12:13 PM

The lyrics are on the pdmusic.org site (1860, link second column under Maud Irving).
Link:
http://www.pdmusic.org/webster/jpw60itmtr.txt

Still looking for sheet music.

In pdmusic.org, what reference does their code [M1621.W] refer to?

To repeat, there are no botanical names 'emanita' or 'islip', nor are the names known as common or vulgar names for any flowers.

In the lyrics on pdmusic.org, it is the myrtle "with an emerald hue" and the "pale aronatus with eyes so bright blue."

There is no flower with the botanical name 'aronatus'. See Stearn, Botanical Latin. It is not known as a common or vulgar name for a flower.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Taconicus
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 08:59 PM

Since no one knows for sure what the original lyric was, I now sing the version that makes the most sense: "The pale Amaryllis and hyssop so blue" – because there IS a pale Amaryllis flower, and the hyssop IS "so blue" (here's a photo: Hyssop)

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Taconicus
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 09:03 PM

I believe M1621.W is the Library of Congress category.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Sep 13 - 09:08 PM

M1621.W is the entry given at pdmusic for the Library of Congress number for sheet music of "I'll Twine 'Mid....." from 1860.

A duplication services form may be requested from the Library of Congress. An online order form may be accessed using this url: http://www.loc.gov/duplicationservices/order

The cost is $US18.00 (or more, depending on the work involved) to process the order. MC, VISA, accepted.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 11:53 AM

Hi, Genie. Where did you find that MIDI of the original melody? What website?

Q, thanks for the info, but I don't think I care to spend $18 on one song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 01:04 PM

The midi looks like the one in pdmusic, found under Joseph Philbrick Webster, 1860. Is this the one, Genie?

I don't want to spend the $18 or more either. That will buy me a couple of good steaks at the market.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Taconicus
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 03:46 PM

I've located a library that seems to have the original 1860 sheet music for I'll Twine Mid the Ringlets and I've ordered it. I'll let you know when (and if) I get it.

Meanwhile, you can see a copy of what is supposedly the composer's version of the music online at the University Of Wisconsin Digital Collections, here. It isn't the published sheet music, however, it's a handwritten, undated, unsigned manuscript with the music and lyrics to one verse of "I'll Twine Mid the Ringlets" that was presumably among private papers from the estate of the composer, J.P. Webster. I have no reason to believe it's not authentic, but since it's not the published sheet music there's no way to tell for sure if it's the original music.

Incidentally, as I posted on the other thread, I've done some research and found some additional "Maud Irving" poems identifying their author as J. William Van Namee, using "Maud Irving" as his pseudonym (he was writing for "ladies' magazines" of the time). You can see what I found HERE. As far as I know (please correct me if you know otherwise), this is the first time anyone (since the 19^th Century, anyway) has identified Van Namee as the probable author of the 1860 Twine lyrics.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 07:11 PM

The volume by J. William Van Namee," Home monthly: Devoted to Home Education, Literature, and Religion,, vol. 5, Edited by Rev Wm. M. Thayer, D. C. Childs & C0., Cornhill, Boston.ontains poems by Van Namee, some of which have Maud Irving added parenthetically after his name.
One such is "I'm Waiting for Thee," p. 83, which has lines suggestive of "I'll Twine 'Mid....."
http://www.ergo-sum.net/music/MaudIrving.html.

Subject: RE: Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 07:20 PM

Taconicus previously linked the poem, "I'm Waiting for Thee," in post above.
Sorry for the duplication.