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BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!!
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Subject: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:32 PM I'm sick of it. There is no such possessive word as "who's", unless you have a person named "who" and the word is referring to something that person owns. You can also write "who's" if you mean "who is"...but that's not a possessive, it's a verb form. The possessive of "who" is "whose" all right? WHOSE. Got it? People used to know this a couple of generations ago. What is going on out there? It's enough to drive a pedant who's paying attention to all the piddly little details of whose language skills are correct and whose aren't absolutely nuts! So stop it. You know who you are and you have no further excuse now. ("G") And, Cletus, stop spreading rumours about us pedants! - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Allan C. Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:35 PM So, I take it that this is something, up with which, you will not put? |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Trevor Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:38 PM I's bored al'ready |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: wysiwyg Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:43 PM Who put the who's in whose? Who's to blame for THAT? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Lin in Kansas Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:46 PM Rots-a-ruck, Little Hawk-- Want to include "its" and "it's" while you're at it? We editor/proofreaders despaired long ago. What the heck, lack of spelling and grammar skills keeps me in groceries. Lin |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Roger in Sheffield Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:48 PM Who's Next? |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Lin in Kansas Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:49 PM Aghhhh. And apparently, they're rubbing off. Meant to say, "Others' lack of spelling and grammar ...." Didn't mean to point out my own!! Lin (blush) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: PeteBoom Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:52 PM That is one of those things that irks me irregardless of who writes it. (roflmao!!!!! I crack myself up!) Pete |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amos Date: 06 Nov 01 - 01:29 PM Geez, LH -- for such a spiritually elevated due, you're being awful hard on the symbols!! Don't you know that can mess up your rhythm? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amos Date: 06 Nov 01 - 01:30 PM That's dude as in, "'S up, dude?" BTW, LH:
Who's enough? Regards, A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: SharonA Date: 06 Nov 01 - 01:37 PM If you're stuck, think of the song title: "Whose Garden Was This?" It's not in the DigiTrad under "Who's", now is it? (It had better not be!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:07 PM I dinna ken nought o'yer meanin' Laddie.
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Fortunato Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:22 PM Little Hawk. I sympathize completely. At least you can't hear them saying who's instead of whose. I have to listen to the masses here in the US say BASICALLY in every damned sentence. There are others equally annoying. "You go girl" and "don't even go there", for example, make me want to smack them in the mouth. Micca recently reminded me we don't speak English over here. Well, most of us don't. There I feel better; thanks a lot. Fortunato |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:27 PM Uh-huh. Here are my reactions, folks... Allan C. - You know that high-pitched sound Curly Joe used to make when he was absolutely going mad with frustration? "Ngee-ngee-ngee-ngee!!!" Something like that... Trevor - You's oughta be board, eh? Trevor, the boredom is only beginning...hang on there. WYSIWYG - Dubya, of course. Who else? Lin in Kansas - Ah! A kindred spirit. Roger in Sheffield - I predict Lin is next. Lin - Well, there you are. Thanks for confirming that prediction. (Ha!) Pete Boom - What irks you? My objection to the heinous act...or the actual heinous act itself? Inquiring minds want to know. Amos - Hey, man...NOTHIN' KIN MESS UP MAH RYTHM!!! (best rapper imitation I can manage at the moment) Amos (again) - Getting nervy, eh?
You're enough! (Sheesh! Copy and paste, copy and paste...) Or alternately... Your enough! Whichever... SharonA - Good point. I'm glad to see this thread is getting the forum back into discussing serious creative issues in a rational and helpful manner. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amergin Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:27 PM one question...why the hell do you care? it is of no concern to you... |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Eric the Viking Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:35 PM Actually not many people speak English. The dictionary and grammar were based around the conglomeration of localised dialects where Johnson collected and built his dictionaries for Oxford university. Mostly about the Shropshire area. That (Which) is why English is such a difficult language with such complex and not purely phonetic based spellings. Many derivations of the colloquial speech patterns have been translated into words spelt as they were said in the times of collection C1700's and so the endings are pronounced differently to the spelling as they reflect the original speech pattern. Like wot aye sayed 'tis the most troublesome of languages to be learned of. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:36 PM Amergin, you should know better than to ask an open-ended question like that...it might prompt a 6,000 word response. The possibilities and ramifications are almost endless as to why I might care about this issue. It is of vital concern to me, almost as vital as knowing what color of socks Neil Young put on this morning, for example. My guess is black. What do you think? Hmmm? Fortunato - Amen! I think TV is primarily to blame for the mental decline in America. Then again, it may be caffeinated drinks and junk food. Or Britney Spears. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amos Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:42 PM The TV mentality is definitely a large piece of our mental decline. Disney-oid versions of reality in sugar-coats also help the establishment of a child-like stupidity in the over-all average Amrican mind, and we've been escalating that process since the Fifties. The use of knee-jerk manipulation in media (both print and broadcast) which has borrowed the worst skills of the advertising world in order to "sell papers" has a large part in it. And, on top of all that, our educational system has been watered down by bleeding-heart commie pinko faggot dweebs so many times its a wonder anyone survives high-school with any brains left!! The days when high school graduates could read Latin and do calculus and recite the GNP of twenty major nations are sadly lost in our bread-and-circus history. Curmudgeonly yours, A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Nov 01 - 02:47 PM Maybe this proves I'm anal-retentive or something, but this thread inspired me to search the Digital Tradition for every use of "who's" and "whose." There are many other mistakes in the Digital Tradition - but I could not find one single misuse of "who's" or "whose." -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:01 PM Joe - Well, THAT is a comfort to know! You are not anal-retentive, my friend, you are inspired. I may arrange to have you appointed as an advisory member to the board of the WSSBA. Amos - Man, you would love Cuba! The kind of child-like stupidity you bemoan in contemporary America is gloriously absent there. As for them "bleeding-heart commie pinko faggot dweebs"...they're nowhere to be found! Viva la revolucion! Oops. Thread creep. :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: wendall2 Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:06 PM It's obvious none of yunz are from picksburgh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Willa Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:10 PM Pete Boom; irregardless - is that a neologism? Shouldn't it be 'one of those things that irk me regardless of who writes them'? (since it's 'those things' that are referred to). Let's face it, folks; life's too short to worry about 'piddly little details of language'. *BG* |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: SharonA Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:11 PM I just hope that we pedants aren't scaring away people like Skarpi, whose first language is not English, and who may feel nervous about posting some error because they think they'll be criticized. If someone who fits that description is reading this, let me try to put your mind at ease: The people we're frustrated with are the ones who grew up speaking and writing English as their native language AND WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: John Routledge Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:29 PM Why has no one mentioned the subjunctive after a doubt wish or supposition. We should be told. :0) GB |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:41 PM Hey Little Hawk!! Take off ya Whoser |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Dead Horse Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:54 PM This thread is just to(or is it TWO)long. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: wysiwyg Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:56 PM Hoo'sier? Oh LH, I miss you, when are you coming baaaaack???? Send me an e-mail would you? I need to ask you something. Something good. ~S~ motormice@hotmail.com |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: kendall Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:09 PM Even Abraham Lincoln had trouble with the difference between its and it's. I'm always surprised at the number of people who dont know the difference AMONG to, two and too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bat Goddess Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:10 PM Spelling and punctuation IS important. Our language is being eroded not only by vocabulary loss, but by the improper use of signposts to clear communication (correct usage of words and punctuation) mostly by the uncaring as well as the totally ignorant. (Ignorance or apathy? To which someone replied, "I don't know and I don't care.") What about semi-colons? I constantly see them used inappropriately and then when a legitimate opportunity arises to use one, nope, it's not there. This stuff isn't that difficult to learn!!! (Of course, it helps if people read . . .) Other things that drive me nutzoid: writers not knowing the difference in usage between hyphens, N-dashes and M-dashes. (Oh, I'll even cut most people some slack about N-dashes, but not M-dashes!) Or an apostrophe and a single prime (or true quotation marks and the typewriter/computer double prime). Hey, precision in communication IS important! Bat Goddess who has a decidely curmudgeonly side, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:20 PM Our dogs used to do N-dashes across the lawn, but they're getting old and crotchety now. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Chip2447 Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:24 PM Like,I wanna axe a question ya know, so who's gonna answer it rightly? Huh? Like, Do this look real bad for the Merican language ya know, or izzit, like, ya know, just me, ya know? I keep wondr'in why I can't get published ya know. Like, it must be them editors fault, them whose can't read simple merican, Ya know? ACK...I'll go hide now. Chip2447 |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: mousethief Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:30 PM Whose is that trip-trappin' over my bridge? |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:47 PM What a bunch of lisping owls out there! |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:48 PM Yeah. If they'd of had the foresight to build that danged bridge, y'know, across Lake Superior, them fellas from the Edmund Fitzgerald wouldn't of all got drowneded, eh? Cos they coulda took refuge on the bridge, y'know what I mean? Cross-thread creep. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: John MacKenzie Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:56 PM Sorry Bat-G but spelling IS important, and punctuation IS important, but spelling AND punctuation, ARE important. BTW is this thread totally unique?? Jock |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Eric the Viking Date: 06 Nov 01 - 05:07 PM 'tis plainly obvious that neil younge wears rust coloured socks;'!?.. : ; "". |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,katlaughing Date: 06 Nov 01 - 05:53 PM InOBU has been very open about why one may find mistakes in his postings. It is because of a learning disability. I am sure he is not the only one, so I hope you most pendantic among us will cut them some slack, too, even with English as their first language. Yes, I give a damn about the language, too, so much so that I was fired by a high school English teacher for being too strict in grading her pupils' papers! I am pleased to say that when my writings reach an actual editor, very few changes are made and virtually no mistakes in spelling or grammar are found. I found out quickly that in a forum such as this, with instant reparte', it took up too much time and energy to get too worked up about it and, therefore, I do not hold myself to the same standards as when writing for a publisher. And, I dare say, most could care less.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 06 Nov 01 - 06:06 PM LH...memberships now available in The Apostrophe Protection Society I'd give a few to people I know, but I'm not sure they'd except it when there ego's are at stake. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 06 Nov 01 - 06:09 PM Apparently the grammar nazis aren't a particularly sensitive lot here, kat and SharonA. I agree with what you both said a bizzillion percent. Yes, there are lazy folks among us. There are people who contribute whose first language isn't English. There are people with learning disabilities (and I know from working with kids with LD, these are common errors they make too). Are we here to communicate, or mock other poster's spelling and grammar errors? Hahahaha its so funny to have a laugh at another poster's expense, especially when it is about spelling. A real hoot.
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: SharonA Date: 06 Nov 01 - 06:22 PM Bill D, I love the "Examples of Real-Life Apostrophe Abuse" page on the site you linked! *G* Funny thing, though: In all their examples of proper apostrophe usage, they used the IMPROPER single-prime (a.k.a. foot-mark) character instead of an apostrophe!!!! Go figure. BTW, is there a way to type an apostrophe (using Mac) so that it will show up as such, here on the Forum? Is it an HTML character? |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,CLETUS Date: 06 Nov 01 - 06:40 PM Doan reckon ittel hert nun fer uz ta uze better grammars an tha like cuz wen sumbuddy gos an sez it bothurz em then I kiny holt with not trine ta pleez em an it doan mattur hooz it iz thet izza axkin senz itz sumpin we all needz ta watch out fer I gess. Hooz axkin inna thizzeer kase iz thet Hawk fellur so whut I wanna no iz hooz with me in aholpin ta maik Littel Hawk feel sum bettor? CLETUS |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Gareth Date: 06 Nov 01 - 06:52 PM ??? Doctor Who's Tardis ???? or ??? Doctor whoses Tardis ???? My Brain hurts Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 06 Nov 01 - 07:19 PM I agree with GUEST, I dont know why some people are really bothered about spelling etc, when this is for people that are interested in folk music.If this was a spelling/proper english forum I would understand, but it is'nt.john |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: kendall Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:11 PM The saddest thing I have seen here is an English teacher being fired for teaching. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:13 PM Whose computer are you using, Little Hawk? Whose the person that misuses this the most, Little Hawk? Who's fault is that? Whose going to know the difference? |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Fiver Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:13 PM Written English and spoken English are two completely different things, andInternet postings are different animals than either one--even the grammar monkeys use incomplete sentences and goofy punctuation--For all the fuss about the English Language going down the tubes(or at least the American Language), the truth is that all those regional dialects are disappearing--they kids all grew up watching TV, and North, South, East, and West, they all sound the same--it's scary-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Al Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:24 PM Do you want to know what is even worse than "who's"? I have seen many musicians playing at venues with a jar out for spare change and a sign on the jar that says "tip's". They should be arrested by the grammar police and thrown in jail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 06 Nov 01 - 08:38 PM I don't think anyone is 'making fun' of those who can't cope with complex grammar & spelling, or those who use English, in all her convoluted glory, as a 2nd language....At least all I'd like to see is an attempt by supposed native speakers to avoid the worst egregious errors and pay some attention to the really basic rules. No one has been singled out by name, and I'd never embarrass anyone that way, but perhaps an occasional humorous thread can help something 'click' in the mind ...I know I have learned stuff that helped me here. (but the ellipses stay, even though I AM using them incorrectly...*grin*) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amos Date: 06 Nov 01 - 09:26 PM There's a difference between the colloquialisms peculiar to this half-mad medium *bg* and the typos of those who rattle off messages in haste, and the clumsy or ignorant abuse of language's conventions by those who should know better. I am inclined to support LH's campaign to improve standards of good English. But I see no use in beleaguering or condemning. Educating will carry you further toward your goal. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 06 Nov 01 - 09:32 PM I see. Now it isn't enough to just have grammar and spelling nazis. Now we need typo nazis as well. I suppose next you'll be telling us you are only doing this for our own good. To make the world a better, safer, saner, more healthful, loving and enlightened place. Bullshit, I sez. Anybody who goes to this length to correct spelling and grammar is in violation of one of the basic rules of netiquette.
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: kendall Date: 06 Nov 01 - 09:33 PM Guest AL, or maybe they should be thrown INTO jail. hehehe |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 06 Nov 01 - 09:36 PM In fact, you've all pissed me off so much I went to the Core Rules of Netiquette website, just to look up this particular violation: Rule 10: Be forgiving of other people's mistakes Everyone was a network newbie once. And not everyone has had the benefit of reading this book. So when someone makes a mistake -- whether it's a spelling error or a spelling flame, a stupid question or an unnecessarily long answer -- be kind about it. If it's a minor error, you may not need to say anything. Even if you feel strongly about it, think twice before reacting. Having good manners yourself doesn't give you license to correct everyone else. If you do decide to inform someone of a mistake, point it out politely, and preferably by private email rather than in public. Give people the benefit of the doubt; assume they just don't know any better. And never be arrogant or self-righteous about it. Just as it's a law of nature that spelling flames always contain spelling errors, notes pointing out Netiquette violations are often examples of poor Netiquette. And if I was in person, I've give you one of my karma violation citations too. So there.
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Genie Date: 06 Nov 01 - 10:07 PM I think it's Bill Gates's fault. (Maybe other software providers had a role, too.) People rely too much on SpellCheck, for one thing, and it won't catch it if you use "who's" instead of "whose." Also, SpellCheck sometimes has errors, itself, and they become part of the current language almost over night. ("Sing-a-long," and "canceled," come to mind. ["Canceled" is not wrong, but neither is "cancelled," which Word's spell checking tool says it is; "cancelled" is more in line with the general rule for adding suffixes. "Sing-a-long" is just plain wrong and probably reflects the influence of advertising and marketing trends.] Yeah, Kat, I find a lot of errors in my posts, too, because I don't take a lot of time to edit them and my typing gets sloppy after midnight or after a beer or two. Sometimes I am amazed to see a "to," where there should be a "too" or just a dumb-looking typo like thios. And, yes, spelling, grammar, and punctuation do matter--not so much in the forum, but in formal publication, e.g., newspapers, magazines, product labels, etc. What irks me is that even the journalists and English teachers often make common mistakes. (Garrison Keillor, an admitted Englished major, has been known on various occasions to say "between you and I," or "to she and me.") To all you folks who say it doesn't matter here at Mudcat, I agree with you where forum discussions are concerned. It does not really matter a lot here.
But when you post the lyrics to a song or poem, please try to get the spelling and punctuation right. People copy these and print them in songbooks, where they take on the ring of gospel.
Joe, I am glad you didn't find misuse of "who's" and "whose" in the DT, but I have seen it often in lyrics posted in the forum. It would be nice to have a way of pointing out these errors to Max or whoever selects songs for the DT. That way, they can be corrected before they get into the DT. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Nov 01 - 10:25 PM Hi, Genie - if you see errors in lyrics posted in the Forum, post a message in that same thread. If it's an error in a song in the Digital Tradition, post a message in an existing thread on the song - or start a new thread. If you put the word CORRECTION in the message title, it helps. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amergin Date: 06 Nov 01 - 10:34 PM I am with our Guest...this thing pisses me off..why the fuck do you care about spelling or grammar on a message board? No matter how much you bitch and moan about it, it will not change anything...I see folks here who are coming down on those who write the way they talk...not because they are necessarily lazy...but because they see it as correct...fuck it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Tyke Date: 06 Nov 01 - 10:43 PM Dear Little Hawk, I must apologise on behalf of the Dyslexic population for our bad spelling, punctuation, and bad grammar. About one in ten people are Dyslexic you know so it must be so frustrating for you. Oh dear! That said it just not a patch on the frustration that we Dyslexic people suffer year in year out by the jumped up pen pushers who look down there noses at our poor writing skills! You would not believe the antics that I have to resort to get passed those on the front line of bureaucracy. This front line of form fillers and procedure followers are happy with their lot. They do not need to think they just need to put pen to paper and follow the rules. Perhaps because they have fill up the brains with these rules on spelling and punctuation they have little room left for thought. Once passed this front line of pen pushers I then have to get passed their managers. It then depends on how much of an empire these pen pushers have built how far up the managerial ladder I have to go to get some satisfaction. I have a feeling that you may not be able to grasp the meaning of the little story that I'm about to relate to you. I'll tell you the story anyway just in case the penny drops. A man in Dublin once made a wager with another man that he could get a new word in to the English Dictionary. He put posters up all round the town with just one word written on it in large letters. So now you know how the word QUIZZ got into the English Language. The point is it is the use of words that make them alive and useful not the suppression of them. So please before you attempt to put people down because of the use of Language. Think of the damage that you are causing. Oh I'm using a spell checker on this piece of writing I have it set on British Spellings so it is probably upsetting an awful lot of people. Oh and please don't change any of the spellings or grammar in any songs that I may or may not post! If I have made mistake who's to say that I have not done it on purpose like quite a lot of song book publishers do! I'm certain that Cecil Sharp type song collectors changed the songs! Oh and if you hear me singing a song please don't tell me that I'm singing the wrong tune or the wrong words. There is nothing I hate more than being told it should sound like the one on the McDonalds version. A friend of mine is constantly being told that he is singing "The Man Of The Earth" song wrongly. Oh no he isn't he wrote the song it was made famous by Vin Garbut who sings it differently. But Bernie Parry get's the PRS cos he wrote it so there!!
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Nov 01 - 10:46 PM ROTFLMAO!!! I'm beginning to wonder just who's putting on whom around here, and with whose line of balderdash... Gosh. Where do I start? Let's see...do I ridicule GUEST for his/her obvious mistakes in interpretive analysis of the original intentions behind this thread? No! That would be rude and insensitive, and we most certainly don't want to accumulate nasty karma in that fashion. By "we" I mean...me and my ego. The real me is filled with compassion for any GUEST who has made the mistake of taking this thread deadly seriously, and thus ruined his/her day by fulminating against it and raising her/his blood pressure in a fruitless endeavour. My ego on the other hand is feckless, undependable, and somewhat lacking in compassion for people with a semi-functional sense of humour, and my ego is convulsed with laughter! Typo nazis? Yes! It is no longer enough to just have grammar and spelling nazis. Now we need typo nazis as well. And they're coming to get YOU!!! Keep in mind that we typo nazis are only doing this for your own good, GUEST, to make the world a better, safer, saner, more healthful, loving and enlightened place. A place where people don't say "who's" when they mean "whose". We have all suffered the shame of making unintentional typos, and it is the memory of that shame which drives us on to purify the world of ALL typos!!! And don't threaten me with your puny "karma violation citations"! I've had peeled bananas waved in my general direction more than once, and I didn't bat an eyelash. I have faced down rabid slugs in the gardens of doom. I laugh in the face of sollipsism and am impervious to slatternly disquisitions of the sort which you embrace conscientiously, while stirring your oatmeal and declaiming on the merits of incontinence to an unheeding world. My God, where will it all end? Anybody for scrabble? - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:07 PM I agree with Amergin and Tyke as well. Little Hawk-What's a slatternly disquisition? I have noticed there is a lot of threads like this recently,=(lower case posts, bad spelling, use of apostophe etc), I think they might just make people who have problems with english for whatever reason fed up.I notice as well that some people are teachers (Mrs Duck, and Les from Hull was a teacher as well etc), and you never see them critisize people, they are both really friendly.john in hull |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:20 PM Okay, that's it. Being accused of being "unfriendly" is simply more than my gentle spirit can endure. I am going to ritually disembowel myself with the rubber sword which I keep in the closet for occasions like this. Goodbye, cruel Mudcat! Adieu! I go to meet my destiny. - LH p.s. disquisition: a formal, careful, rather heavy treatment (oral or written) of a subject. slatternly: dirty, untidy, unkempt, sluttish Put 'em together and you've got the whole meaning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:51 PM *giggle*.. (BTW, only one 'l' in solipism...You got a rubber dagger handy?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:53 PM Geeziz, when you put all that together you get a bread pudding......... This is about some sillyass kinda' shit ain't it? We should be talking about communicating...not grammar and puctuation. It's harder than hell (the surface of hell being able to withstand molten magma, it must be very hard) to get any inflection in the written word so using "illegal" tools can sometimes be an asset. If you're (yeah, one of my peeves--your for you're) a bit less than perfect, that's okay....try to improve maybe. If you're going off the deep end over trivial shit, try to cope. If we are making ourselves understood to each other, who gives a fuck? (For you pedants, if you know someone who "gives" a fuck have them call me, but if they "give" a shit, my number is unlisted) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:55 PM Well said Spaw! |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: katlaughing Date: 07 Nov 01 - 03:40 AM Got it in a nutshell with one left over, Spaw, neatly done! |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Wolfgang Date: 07 Nov 01 - 05:45 AM I'm with Genie and there's no need to repost my point of view. And to those who think people should write here how they use to speak, da wär die Kommunikation mit mir schnell im Eima und die Kacke am Dampfen. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Banjer Date: 07 Nov 01 - 05:52 AM Looking at this subject from both sides of the fence I have mixed emotions. Yes, without a doubt, we should always strive to maintain proper grammar to the very best of our ability and be willing to learn and improve our skills where needed. On the other hand, we speak often of the 'folk process'. It appears to me that what we accept as that process in song and story is likewise at work in our language as well. Many words that I grew up with are no longer used for the same things. Think of the Christmas Carol, Deck The Halls. At one time 'don we now our gay apparel' prompted a mental picture of people getiing into their 'happy' duds and having a good time. What do today's children think of it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 07 Nov 01 - 06:35 AM Little Hawk, A gentle, enlightened spirit might decide to apologize for shaming people publicly, rather than decide to attack a person directly a second time. Just a thought. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:10 AM Little Hawk asks somewhat provocatively: "My God, where will it all end?" To which my reply is, he who started it could easily end it gracefully, if he so desired. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amos Date: 07 Nov 01 - 09:51 AM Tweedle and foofara, the whole lot. Now I want you guys to stop this nonsense. I want you to write exactly as you please, spell as you can, but above all, DON'T STOP COMMUNICATING. That's it in a nuthouse. Warm regards, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: John MacKenzie Date: 07 Nov 01 - 11:03 AM I thought that Little Hawk's original posting was valid comment and not personalised in any way. What then happened then was that the thread degenerated into a paranoid mud slinging exercise by people,some of whom suffer from delusions of adequacy. Please note this is posted under my own name!!!!! Jock |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Deda Date: 07 Nov 01 - 11:14 AM By all means, everyone, continue communicating. And please never say "me" when you mean "I", never say "just between you and I" (which is the grammatical equivalent of "just between we", which for some reason no one ever says) -- and above all, don't forget to use the subjunctive mood in contrafactual conditional clauses! Newsflash: Howard Cosell is in eternal grammar hell. hohohohohoho.
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: lady penelope Date: 07 Nov 01 - 12:04 PM First off I'm British, many may have noticed this already. ;) Secondly, I'm really crap at spelling. This is because I simply don't write that much since I left school 17 years ago (my hand writing is also terrible unless it's in capitals). Thirdly, when I attended school our, education 'experts' in the Inner London Education Authority decided that grammar should definitely take a back seat as it wasn't that much of a priority. In some schools it was decreed that anything other than phonetic spelling cramped children's creativity! So I was never 'taught' grammar, I just picked up what I could along the way. But, I have to ask, isn't it in the interests of communication to keep the English language (at least in a written context) consistent? In London, it's quite common for someone to ask another if they would borrow them something. Not 'lend me', 'borrow me'. Directly changing such a basic word's meaning can't be helpful in good communications. Parker has, at times, severe attacks of Malapropism (from the character Mrs Malaprop in the play The Rivals), right meaning, wrong word. (e.g. Mrs Malaprop declares at one point, "Yes, basking like an allegory on the banks of the Nile.") This drives me bananas as, quite often, I could be highly insulted by some of his substitutions if it were not that I generally know what he intends. I still end up having sometimes-tense conversations with him until I finally fathom what it is he's on about. My point is really, I suppose, while I'm not a fanatic about spelling and grammar, I do feel that some consistency should be maintained. That we should have a common ground where everyone knows what you mean, with the least possible confusion. On Mudcat this can be very important because we don't hear each other's voices nor do we see their faces, therefore much of what we take for granted during verbal communication simply doesn't exist. For example, "Robin Hood tore his leather jerkin off." Now depending on where you put your punctuation, you could end up offending someone without meaning to. "It is said that he had his house made backwards." Now, a spot of bad spelling there could also get you into trouble. It's just a thought, but I wouldn't mind the occasional brush up course when it comes to these things. Anyone up to the challenge? I think I need a lie down now. TTFN M'lady P. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 07 Nov 01 - 01:30 PM And I wish all you grammar and spelling utopians well too. Which part of "we are all not equally capable spellers and grammarians at all times and in all places" do people not understand? Thanks again for looking down your noses at us, and insisting on how things should be in YOUR perfect world. A world where the aging, the ill, the absent minded, the dyslexic, the other language speakers, get to be admonished again and again by the superior among you, in OUR most hellish "back to school you go then" nightmares. Sometimes we forget that this medium doesn't facilitate understanding of other poster's motives and intentions. So when these misunderstandings occur, isn't it better to just apologize for offending, rather than arrogantly continue to offend once you've been informed a good number of folks have been offended by your words? C'mon, this wasn't a once off remark in the heat of passion, buried deep in a thread. This was a brand new thread started to call attention to one particular guest poster, if we are to "translate" Little Hawk's cryptic finger-pointing with his "you know who you are "G". Gimmee a break--he meant it, and the rest of you can stop insulting our intelligence by back peddling otherwise, thank you not very much at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Nov 01 - 01:46 PM I am truly devastated to report that the rubber sword failed miserably. I am still in this world. I am also still trying to figure out if the apparently serious objections to this thread posed by various persons above are, indeed, genuinely serious (hard to believe)...or are examples of very dry wit. If so, there are a number of you out there with a grandly dry sense of humour. Actually, my original post that started this thread off was directed at no specific person whatsoever, although it did refer to a common error that annoys me a bit at times...but I certainly don't lose any sleep over it! Nor do I expect you to lose any sleep over it either. Feel free to make all the typos and spelling mistakes you want, folks. Please reread this quote out of the original post: It's enough to drive a pedant who's paying attention to all the piddly little details of whose language skills are correct and whose aren't absolutely nuts! So stop it. You know who you are and you have no further excuse now. ("G") Now...isn't it fairly obvious in that quote that I am making some fun of my own (and others') overly pedantic tendencies? Hmmmm? Calling myself "a pedant who's paying attention to all the piddly little details", and so on...would I do that if I were serious???? Really, people, do you not have any sense of satirical humour at all? Get with it. Whaddya think the "Grin" symbol was in there for, fer Chrissakes! I make typos too...lots of 'em. It's inevitable, cos working on a computer causes the rapid extinction of braincells. This has been amply proven in tests involving chimpanzees. After 5,000 hours on a computer, the average chimp makes 33% more typos a week than he did back in the first week when he started! Consider the shocking implications of that. We are just gonna have to live with it, I'm afraid, cos we are all too addicted at this point to do the smart thing, turn the bloody machine off, and go out and work in the garden instead. Spaw - Not to worry. NO ONE gives a shit around here, I can assure you! Unfortunately, not too many give a fuck either...but if I hear of someone who does, I'll have 'em get in touch with you right away. Wolfgang - Thanks for the German passage. I love the German language. GUEST - I am beginning to suspect that you are my old nemesis flattop, posting anonymously from the library, screwing around here and creating needless controversy, posturing righteous indignation, and so on. If you are, take a deep breath and walk off the end of the pier. That cold Atlantic water does wonders to clear the head. If not, maybe you should get to know flattop, cos he's actually quite a droll wit, to say the least. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Nov 01 - 02:10 PM Oh, the "G" stood for "grin"...I don't think you got that, according to what you wrote, GUEST. Funnily enough, my first name begins with "G", but I don't know of anyone else I could apply it to around here at the moment...except maybe Gargoyle, and I was not referring to him...or anyone else in particular. George (LH) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: John MacKenzie Date: 07 Nov 01 - 02:39 PM I suspect that this guest suffers from the same affliction as all others who are afraid to post openly. This disease is known biblically as Onanism. Jock |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 07 Nov 01 - 03:18 PM caution!! Pedantry alert! Onan "spilled his seed upon the ground"....does this mean that 'guest' has been eating watermelon carelessly? :>0 (what Onan practiced was coitus interruptus) LH..it never struck me for a minute that you were referring to any one, specific person....I have used the "you know who you are" phrase for 40 years to suggest that LOTS or readers/listeners might identify with the description.........but some folks simply do NOT read between the lines for sarcasm, irony, metaphor, allusion...etc...they see only what they want to see, in the most negative interpretation they can find.....I find this sad, but I do not intend to avoid multi-leveled humor in my attempts to make points, and you, LH, seem to feel the same. *grin*....let the literal minded anons grump, there's no easy cure for that affliction!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: mousethief Date: 07 Nov 01 - 03:27 PM Repartee has two e's. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 07 Nov 01 - 06:26 PM Bill D, if I may wax even more pedantic, there is no actual Scriptural evidence that Onan practised coitus interruptus, although most scholars make this assumption . As you say, he "spilled his seed upon the ground" but IMHO it is much more likely that he was on the receiving end of a hand job or a blow job from his deceased brother's wife. (Who didn't swallow, apparently). I mean, has anyone on this planet ever practised coitus interruptus? Again, IMHO, the term is a figment of some sociologist's imagination. Whatever, the good Lord terminated him for his refusal to do it normally. Quite right too, he had it coming. Murray
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Deda Date: 07 Nov 01 - 06:46 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Deda Date: 07 Nov 01 - 06:49 PM Thread creep: Dorothy Parker had a parakeet which she named Onan upon observing that it too spilled its seed upon the ground. Those of us who notice these grammatical details have no trouble communicating with the rest of us, and we are, after all, all here on the 'cat just trying to get along. I would be happy to provide answers to any grammar questions. Feel free to PM me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bat Goddess Date: 07 Nov 01 - 07:18 PM A) of all, SpellCheck needs to be run with brain engaged. B) of all, I certainly don't get upset with the substitution of single and double primes (or double hyphen in lieu of M-dash) in e-mail, posts, etc. because of platform keyboard differences. It's a workable compromise -- and typewriter not typographic rules prevail. C) of all, where I do get upset is the erosion of language, punctuation, and proofreading (lack of) in print. Believe it or not, even the revered New York Times printed the great apostrophe error (possessive instead of plural) on the front page -- below the fold, but the front page nontheless. Typos, especially in books, are distracting and interfere with the absorption of knowledge and effective information. In informal correspondence, such as e-mail or posts here or elsewhere, typos are generally the result of trying to type too fast; too late at night; too, ah, "relaxed" thanks to various single malts and other muscle and brain relaxants; and, of course, the possibility (as at this moment) of a cat tush on the keyboard or a paw jealously grabbing my hand. BTW, I "collect" signs, and my collection includes a big sign above a restaurant at Hampton Beach, NH that reads, "Pizza's" -- of course, it COULD be owned by a family named Pizza . . . Bat Goddess |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 07 Nov 01 - 07:56 PM "where I do get upset is the erosion of language, punctuation, and proofreading (lack of) in print. Believe it or not, even the revered New York Times printed the great apostrophe error (possessive instead of plural) on the front page -- below the fold, but the front page nontheless." Nonetheless, and The New York Times notwithstanding, we must all be more conscientious about our proofreading. *G* Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: katlaughing Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:04 PM Thanks, Alex, I knew that, but forgot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:07 PM Read this: Bite me Murray. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:18 PM You should be careful with that expression, Spaw. There are a lot of weird people out there with literal minds, and one of them might take you seriously. Oh, BTW, your short memo above should have read: Bite me, Murray." You left out the comma! :-) (evil grin...) I wouldn't normally bother pointing it out, but I just couldn't resist this time, given the general theme of this thread... - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Henry W Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:31 PM How soon we forget. Whatever happened to "Please everyone, show tolerance and patience, love and empathy."? |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:32 PM You see, the way you worded it before might be misunderstood (specially in the UK) to mean that you have something called a "Murray", and that you are inviting everyone to bite it! We wouldn't want that. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:38 PM Henry, this thread is not about intolerance, it is about humour among a rather bizarre group of old folkies who mostly know each other well enough not to make the mistake of taking any of it that seriously. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 07 Nov 01 - 09:22 PM umm..Murray..doesn't the verse go (from memory)..."..and it came to pass that whenever he went into his brother's wife, he spilled his seed upon the ground"? seems to me that is almost spelling it out...why would anyone read anything other into it?..hand? oral?...maybe, but it doesn't say so... and, "I mean, has anyone on this planet ever practised coitus interruptus? "....you durn tootin' they have! Primitive form of birth control, but LOTS of people used it.(and yes, *grin*, lots intended to, but sorta forgot)
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: CarolC Date: 07 Nov 01 - 09:27 PM I mean, has anyone on this planet ever practised coitus interruptus? Again, IMHO, the term is a figment of some sociologist's imagination.
--Murray MacLeod Some people do it, and some are quite good at it. On the other hand (did I say hand?), I know of at least one person who owes his existance in the world to that particular method of birth control. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 07 Nov 01 - 09:53 PM Bill, in the King James Version, the verse reads ....."when he went in unto his brother's wife"...... Slightly less graphic than your remembered version !! "Went in unto" conjures up visions of knocking on the door and saying "Honey are you in?" "Went into his brother's wife" well, leaves nothing to the imagination, I agree. But that is not what it says in Genesis. Carol, I am intrigued and puzzled by the concept of someone becoming "quite good" at coitus interruptus. I can only assume you are talking from personal experience and knowledge, so I would not dream of contradicting you. But why one would want to become "good" at it in the first place, defies all understanding. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 07 Nov 01 - 10:37 PM hmmm...ok, I see...but "in unto' is sure awkward language for just knocking on the door. " But why one would want to become "good" at it in the first place, defies all understanding. " before 1962-3, out of condoms, sudden panic.....*grin*...(I remember sitting in my university's student union, talking about the 'new' birth control pills, and remarking that they were going to revolutionize society as regards morality and sexual practices....) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: CarolC Date: 07 Nov 01 - 10:46 PM I'll tell you, Murray. It's actually a less unpleasant form of birth control for people who are sensitive to hormones and chemicals such as those that are found in all of the other methods of birth control. For such people, sex can be quite uncomfortable, if not painful. Or in the case of the pill, life can become pretty unbearable. If someone practices 'coitus interruptus' well, it means that sex can be good for both partners without the fear of pregnancy. But the man has to be very good at it, meaning he must have a lot of self control. I don't have any direct personal experience with what happens when that method fails. My son was very much a planned pregnancy. But as I said, I know of at least one person who is a direct result of a failure in that form of birth control. So it's clearly not appropriate for everyone. Personally, I'm a big fan of vasectomies. Hey, LH! How's that for a major thread hijack? |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:19 AM I take your point about the allergies, Carol. But really, are the skills and self-control required for a mutually satisfying CI relationship any different than for a non-interrupted one? Apart from the obvious exercise of will-power at the crucial moment, that is. You don't have to answer that btw ! The thread creep has been massive, as you say. Maybe I should just have taken up Spaw's invitation and left it at that ............... Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:38 AM It's after 1:30 and this thread demands a response but, uh........I really oughta' indulge in Cattus Interruptus............There's this image of a guy wailin' away to "Pop Goes the Weasel" in my mind and on POP he pulls out but the sound is one of those vacuum kinda' things........There's a real good Cletus story here...........Nah,it's 1:38 Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: CarolC Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:41 AM Well now Murray, I think you'd have to ask a man about that 'cause I, personally, have no idea. I haven't got that kind of plumbing.
What I meant by 'quite good' was that some men can be good partners despite the interuptus part, and (this is the really important bit) can be relied upon to do what is needed at the appropriate moment. I suspect LH probably won't mind about the thread creep ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: katlaughing Date: 08 Nov 01 - 02:44 AM Wasn't there some kind of belef in ancient Japan that a man spilling his seed was weakened and so they practised sex up to that point and then stopped just short, if you will, of spilling it anywhere?
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Genie Date: 08 Nov 01 - 04:09 AM Please, folks, don't take anything I'm saying as deathly somber or as intended to put others down. Tyke, ("Oh and please don't change any of the spellings or grammar in any songs that I may or may not post! ...Oh and if you hear me singing a song please don't tell me that I'm singing the wrong tune or the wrong words...") Wow! Where to begin? First, how dare you tell me not to correct spelling a song that you did NOT post? : ) Next, there are some errors that are clearly errors, not alternative versions of a song. "Whose Sorry Now?" would be an example. If you're the songwriter, I'll defer to your decision about lyrics, even if there are obvious spelling errors. But if it is a published song, deviations from the published form are fair game for correction, especially when they are obviously typos and misspellings. (If you post "Wildwood Flour," and you have not changed anything except that one word, I would assume it's a mistake. If the lyrics you post are a parody, that's different.) It's Max's choice, of course, whether to make the corrections for the DT. But a lot of the time, lyrics posted here look like they were written by e e cummings -- no caps, no punctuation at all, etc. If it was Bob Dylan who wrote them, not e e cummings, why the heck should they not be properly spelled and punctuated? As someone -- Amos, I think -- posted, there is a difference between colloquialisms or poetic license and just plain spelling and punctuation errors. As for changing the lyrics to a song (the folk process?), if it is a non-trad song, I prefer that the alteration of the lyrics be acknowledged. I have done this myself, e.g., when I change a song from a male to a female perspective. Folks, which insult is worse: "nitpicking linguistic pedant" or "hypersensitive, overly defensive illiterate uninterested in self-improvement?" I'm not fond of either tendency, but we pedants would probably lighten up if the 'linguistically challenged' didn't take it as a personal attack every time someone pointed out an error, even in a formal publication. Little Hawk, You go, dude! Right on, Giok (Jock)! And, what Lady Penelope said, too! (Loved the Robin Hood sentence! How about, "She was on her bicycle, peddling her ass off?" ) To Spaw, Guest, and some of you others who say it is only communication that counts, not spelling, grammar, and punctuation, I say, along with Wolfgang, you are partly right. Communication is the goal. Spelling, grammar, etc., are only the tools. Trouble is, the meaning can easily get lost in the spelling and grammar errors. E.g, Guest, when you wrote "get passed" instead of "get past," above, I had to re-read the sentence two or three times to figure out what you meant. Once I realized the word was "past," it did not matter that it was misspelled, but I did not recognize the word at first. Wolfgang, your views posted in the "Proofresding" thread are right to the point! Sometimes a spelling error does cause lots of problems! Genie |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Boab Date: 08 Nov 01 - 04:19 AM Aargh!---The apostrophe polis is back! |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 01 - 07:46 AM Probably because the subject got interesting... |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: lady penelope Date: 08 Nov 01 - 09:31 AM Wow, coo, well I never, never has my flabber been so gasted. This is how grammer should be taught, it's way more fun!! :-) ****G**** TTFN M'Lady P. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 08 Nov 01 - 09:40 AM Yeah, ain't it like way cool when someone goes like, "This is something Ican't get enough of," and that kind of stuff? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Fortunato Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:04 AM Billy, Biillllllllllllllly Grammer, you come away from that goddamn parsing or diagraming or whatever the hell it is. Come in here and practice your guitar, boy. Howinell do you 'spect to be a musician if all you do is grammar, Grammer? Hee, hee. Fortunato |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:37 AM to be fair to Tyke, who wrote 'get passed' ..(not guest)...he/she explained that a spell checker WAS used in the post, which explains why 'passed' was not caught. It is quite true that some people have dyslexia and other learning difficulties which make it frustrating and tedious to cope with grammar & spelling...but at least those spell checkers ARE available. What I do not understand is why some refuse to use one, or to use the SHIFT key, instead of typing like ee cummings. (I also do wonder, Tyke...seriously, no ridicule implied...how one comes to type 'passed' when 'past' is meant. This is something other than simple misspelling. I am curious as to what those words mean when you are reading. Do you see them differently? If you read a sentence like "She past away the time knitting", do you see a problem? Or, "He reflected on his passed?".....to me, those jump off the page and SCREAM at me, but it seems not to trigger anything for some....I wish I understood better.) Since I am NOT a good typist...(yeah...two fingers), I often hit 'submit message', and just as it is about to go, I see some error too late to correct it..(often a 't' instead of a 'y', my most common error)...but if I have typed a longer post, I use a spell-checker which avoids the worst of these mistakes. (and yes, there IS one which works pretty well right in this box, with no need to type it in a word processor first!) *sigh*...there is a fine line between ridicule and well meaning, but humorous commentary, but if everyone would read and RE read Genie's post a few times...and take it to heart, we might all see some of the issues better! Fine points, Genie! "Wildwood Flour" *giggle* |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amos Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:46 AM Have you tried biscuits made with that Sweet Wildwood Flour? Guaranteed, they'll stay with you, for over an hour! They're sturdy, they're solid, like rocks in a creek But not recommended if your digestion is weak! (Fade to incredibly cliched guitar riff...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:59 AM Those biscuits I ate made from Sweet Wildwood Flour, Hit my stomach like lead, I felt grumpy and dour. Seven days have gone by and it's relief I seek 'Cause I'm all bloated up, I ain't shit in a week. ....chiched guitar riff continues...... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Nov 01 - 11:04 AM CarolC - Coitus interruptus??? Man, talk about thread hijacking! Kat - It is a basic and very important teaching in Taoism that a man is best off not to frequently "spill his seed" after his teens and early twenties, but to conserve it by restricting not sex, but having orgasms during sex. I believe the same notion is found in a great many other Asian traditions as well. So...they teach methods of self-control during sex, so as to prevent ejaculation and conserve the creative energies. Females, on the other hand, are encouraged to have all the orgasms they please, since they do not lose much (if any) energy in the process. For a more complete explanation, consult the excellent book "The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity". I believe these teachings are largely correct in their assertions regarding both maintaining health and creative powers, but it's a complex subject, so I suggest to anyone who's interested that they read the book, as I don't feel up to typing out another 500 lines explaining it all. The interesting thing about the oriental traditions of China and Japan is that they viewed sex primarily as a health issue rather than a moral one. Very sensible of them, I think. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Leftykin Date: 08 Nov 01 - 11:24 AM Wilde Mountin' Time
O the summertime is come
And we'll awl go tewgether
I will bild my luv a bauer
And we'll awl go tewgether
If my troo love she wont go
And we'll awl go tewgether NOw how come I cant fynd this faymous song in the dijital tradition? It's an outrage! Yew peeple call yerselfs a folk and blues forrum. Ha! - Leftykin
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Wolfgang Date: 08 Nov 01 - 11:53 AM Leftykin, you seem to know a lot of fine songs. Thanks. Maybe you can help me with this: It's about a female drummer and it has the line Many a knight in the guard room I have laid. I seem to be unable to locate it. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Nov 01 - 12:04 PM Oh....my...God... ROTFLMAO!!! - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Leftykin Date: 08 Nov 01 - 12:32 PM SOLDIER MADE
When I was a fare made at the age of sweet sixteen
With my nice cape and fethers if you only could have seed
Oh many is the prank I plaiyed upon the feeld
With my regimental at the front all times I might have been
Many a knight in the guard room I have laid
They might never have been knowne until this very hour
My orfficer sent for me to see if that was troo
But fore your valyiant conduit at the seiege of Valley Green Is that the one? - Leftkin
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Wolfgang Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:15 PM You've mate my date, Leffkind, that's the song exactly with the line I remember. I've searched for years, but I didn't have the write title. Thanks aloft. Wolfgag |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Jeri Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:40 PM I could care less about how people write as long as I can understand what their saying. I make enough misteaks myself, and some folks don't write so good. I've done the "who's/whose" thing by accident - I get irritated with myself because I know better. Honestly though, if we pick out every boo-boo, that's all we'll ever talk about. If we pick on really bad spellers or grammaticators, they'll give up and we could miss some great contributions. (Please note that there are mistakes in most of the posts talking about other people's mistakes. Ironic, ain't it?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:55 PM Yeah, like, how much less could you care, Jeri? A lot less or just a little less? I tend to focus less on things I care more about than more on things I care less about, unless the lesser things are more or less of a problem than more of one...more or less. Some people couldn't care less...mostly people born over 35 years ago. Since then there has been a vast proliferation of people who could care less (so they say), but are unable to explain why. These people have more in common with those who couldn't care less than they are usually willing to admit. - LH
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 08 Nov 01 - 02:01 PM "Love, oh love, oh care-less love, I care less for you that you for me. I was born before the baby boom, So less caring's just a part of me" |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: X Date: 08 Nov 01 - 02:08 PM All I want's to know is "who's on first?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: X Date: 08 Nov 01 - 02:11 PM All I want's to know is "who's on first?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Nov 01 - 02:40 PM He's on second. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Songster Bob Date: 08 Nov 01 - 03:15 PM Your all a bunch of loosers! Bob Clayton |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Amos Date: 08 Nov 01 - 03:19 PM Petless is just another word for nothing left to loose, Bob. Gyro |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bill D Date: 08 Nov 01 - 08:23 PM pooh! you just envy my songwriting skills, Bob..*grin* |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Genie Date: 09 Nov 01 - 01:05 AM Thanks for noticing (and concurring, and expounding), Bill D. Genie |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Genie Date: 09 Nov 01 - 01:24 AM BTW, Bill D. ( and others), It's not just dyslexia that leads to errors. I, for example, am very good at spelling, but when I am not paying attention, I often make errors (like the "past," "passed" thing), because I tend to be an auditory processor. If and when I proofread, I usually catch the mistake -- but not always. I once put together an Irish-American sing-along book for my retirement home clients and included the song "Cockles and Muscles!" It is not that I did not know the difference, but I probably proofread it by hearing the words as I read them, more than by seeing how they were spelled. I did not see that error until a couple of years later, when one of the residents pointed it out to me -- at which point it was perfectly obvious to me, and I felt very silly! I relate this tale partly to emphasize that wishing our country's language skills were not deteriorating does not imply snobbery. We all make mistakes unless we proofread and sometimes even when we do. It is the unwillingness to improve that troubles me. Also, the unwillingness to proofread even when doing something like posting a song on the net. Genie
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Boab Date: 09 Nov 01 - 03:49 AM A spell checker?---An AMERICAN spell checker?????? Red ink all over the place! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 09 Nov 01 - 07:28 AM OK--so everybody admits to making mistakes. Everyone agrees there are plenty of mistakes in their own posts. That even when they are good spellers and grammarians, AND proofread, they miss a few of the commonly made errors. Like who's for whose. Passed for past. So, my still angry retort is, why start a thread pointing out those errors, arrogantly assuming that people aren't willing to correct mistakes, improve their language skills, etc when the plain fact of the matter is that to do so in social settings (like this forum) IS REALLY GODDAMN RUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Jon Freeman Date: 09 Nov 01 - 07:44 AM Guest, the origintor of the thread wrote:
"Henry, this thread is not about intolerance, it is about humour among a rather bizarre group of old folkies who mostly know each other well enough not to make the mistake of taking any of it that seriously." I assume that means that the original intention was to draw "witicisms" from said group rather than to enter any serious conversation on the subject or make serious compliants. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 09 Nov 01 - 07:57 AM As I see it, whether you correct someone's spelling misconceptions (NB"misconceptions" , anybody can make "mistakes" ) or not, is pretty much the same moral dilemma as whether you tell a total stranger that he is wandering around with his fly open ................... Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:01 AM And how are people who are not among "the bizarre group of old folkies who know each other" to be expected to know that? This is a public Internet discussion forum. The rules of netiquette apply here. We have the rules of etiquette for JUST THIS VERY REASON. But if some of you wish to continue insisting there is nothing wrong with starting threads for the sole purpose of arrogantly insulting other posters' bad grammar and spelling, because it is "just a joke" or is done "among friends" I'm sure you will continue to do it. Some people will always insist on sticking to the low road. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Wolfgang Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:08 AM And how are people who are not among "the bizarre group of old folkies who know each other" to be expected to know that? For instance, by Little Hawk's last sentence about 'Cletus' which makes clear that it is an insider joke. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:10 AM No Murray, in Internet social settings, telling someone they have bad spelling/grammar is the equivalent of saying "look at how stupid so-and-so is everybody!" That is why every set of netiquette rules I've ever read tells us not to do that. Because it is rude, not to mention cruel, to humiliate and publicly shame people. It matters not if a majority of Mudcat regulars decide it is just fine to do that here, so long as it is done by one of their beloved members. It still puts the lot of you in with the worst sorts of people on the Internet in terms of your manners. But not to worry--rude people are definitely the on-line majority nowadays, so you'll have plenty of company. This has nothing to do with pedantry BTW, it has to do with manners and simple decency to one's fellow posters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Jon Freeman Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:12 AM Wolfgang, I would recognise that but let's not forget there are always new people passing through who are not aware of such things. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:43 AM GUEST, it never happens here, really it doesn't. There are two or three members here who have obvious learning difficulties, and no one has ever written in and said "Jeez, aren't you thick? ". But IMHO it is a different matter to point out gently to somebody who, for example, habitually writes "loose" instead of "lose" that he or she is committing an error. Just my opinion, you are entitled to disagree. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:53 AM Murray, And netiquette doesn't take into account "here" or "there" arguments. It simply says, examine your reasons for wanting to point out other peoples' mistakes and weaknesses publicly. Netiquette says, do it privately via email, or if that is not possible, don't do it at all. Apparently, many of you are also oblivious as to how it makes *you* look for pointing out peoples' mistakes/weaknesses, and/or stridently defending the people who do. But like I said, some will insist on sticking to the low road as a means of saving face, rather than changing course by doing the gracious thing, and apologizing for having caused offense to anyone with their insensitive remarks. But hey--I'm tired of playing netiquette cop here. Insult whomever you please, and slap the people down who call you on it. Like I said, I'm sure you will be in the majority here, as you would be anywhere on the Internet. Everyone knows that might makes you right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Bat Goddess Date: 09 Nov 01 - 02:05 PM Genie -- you can't proofread your own work, no matter how good you are. The brain sees what you want to see, not what is actually there. This has been proven "scientifically" any number of times and is well known in the graphic arts industy. And if you are checking the specifications, you will more than likely interpret them the same way you originally did. And those of us who started out as trade typographers also know that you go for speed, not accuracy. Typos are caught by the proofreader and corrected in the second galley run. It's too slow to go back and correct them in the first run. Bat Goddess |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,Leila Date: 09 Nov 01 - 02:29 PM Things that drive me 'round the bend: Your when they mean you're You're when they mean your Too when they mean to To when they mean too LibARY!! There's an 'R' in there people!! "Let me axe you sumthin". - No! Don't AXE me! "I don't got no libAry books, I jus' wanna use these 'puters." "Where's Joe at?" "Whatcha gonna dethaw for supper?" Oh, there are so many. English is a very strange language, mostly because it is a language made by cramming in bits and pieces from several different languages over at least three different language families. It is also not a very static language, new words from other languages are constantly being added. That being said, some butcher the language more than others. Cheers, Leila |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 09 Nov 01 - 03:00 PM Gee Leila, I bet Cletus' posts drive you nuts huh? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: John MacKenzie Date: 09 Nov 01 - 03:44 PM Guest, as I said previously none of the posts I have read are critical on a personal level, however I will make an exception to this rule for your benefit. I think you are a pompous prig!!!!!!!!!! Jock |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: GUEST,PeteBoom (Back at work after setting up 4 a Date: 09 Nov 01 - 10:04 PM I hate it when people take things like comments here personally - IRREGARDLESS of who starts it.... gads I bust myself up.... TWICE in the same thread I said the same word... hee hee hee hee hee roflmao.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: STOP writing 'Who's'! Enough!!! From: Chip2447 Date: 10 Nov 01 - 04:37 AM HMMMMMM, I'm wondering, is the term anal retentive supposed to be hyphenated? Chip2447 |