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Newfoundland is No More !!!
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Subject: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: gnu Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:28 PM Today, the constitution of Canada has been amended. There is now no such thing as "Newfoundland". Tis now "Newfoundland and Labrador". Big fuckin yawn ? Yeeees, bye. What the hell have they got to do in Ottawa but waste money ? And the PQ's are saying that this is an insult to their claim on Labrador as part of Quebec. What a bunch !! Don't know how they can claim anything. They wouldn't fight for the liberation of France in WWII unless conscripted. What a bunch of two faced pussies !! Twas well said by a buddy of mine from the Rock. The movement of the tectonic plates has been measured as showing that NF is moving toward Quebec at the rate of about two inches per year. The Newfs are gearing up for one big fucking dredging operation ! |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: katlaughing Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:34 PM PQ's? |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Amos Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:40 PM Partie Quebecois, i expect....or maybe Pastry Quebecois or Partially Quiche... |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:40 PM I was under the impression that the province was Newfoundland and Labrador all along, or at least for a long time. The map on the wall in the Harlow campus of St John's University shows it like that, anyway.
The island is still Newfoundland of course.
Personally if I was a Newfoundlander at the time I'd have voted to stay independent. And if I was a Quebecker I'd vote for independence as well. (And if I was a Labrador I'd wag my tail and be everybody's friend.)
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: katlaughing Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:44 PM Eh! Wochit, there, Amos! Them's could be fightin' words to the relatives, if we only knew who they all are, there's so many! **BG** Let's see, now how will I keep them right in my head? Newfies are the big, big shaggy black ones that leap out of helicopters to rescue people from the sea (saw that on on Animal Planet) and the Labs are the smaller, still big, though, smooth-coated hunters, eh? *tongue firmly in cheek!* |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Sorcha Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:48 PM Labradors love everybody; Newfies don't give a shit unless you need rescuing......... |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: gnu Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:51 PM Not if you ask a Labradorian !!! "The Big Land." Why would you have voted to have NF stay independant ? The deal from Britain was utter ruin of the economy, no ? Quebec separation. Ah... here's the rub !!! La Belle Province joined Confederation and gained Prince Rupert's Land and Ungava AS LONG AS THEY REMAINED IN CONFEDERATION. Jacques Parizeau said that any attempt to redraw Quebec's borders after separation would be met with military force... ie, the ceding of those lands as per agreement would not be honoured. He is unheard of these days.
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Dec 01 - 06:05 PM Where does this leave the Landseer? Will he still be accepted as a Newfie or will he require poodle cut? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Sorcha Date: 06 Dec 01 - 06:25 PM Well, I think a poodle cut is going a bit too far, spaw. They'll just have to settle for being honorary Newfies, I guess. Better than being a Chinese Crested......... |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Devilmaster Date: 06 Dec 01 - 10:28 PM Oh, please. Quebec will never truly separate. Quebecers for the most part (except for a very few distinct hardliners) use separatism as an end to the means of getting what the inuit in the territories recieved. Self rule and preferred favoritism.
Now, before everyone chimes in about self rule is independence, realize its not. They are two different things. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Devilmaster Date: 06 Dec 01 - 10:31 PM And let me just say, I love Newfoundland, loved my time there, love the people, love the sites, love the culture. I even love Quebec. Beautiful province. Really beautiful women. I just always have to go on this rant when people say Quebec wants to separate. Sorry for making ya listen Steve |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Devilmaster Date: 06 Dec 01 - 10:34 PM P.P.S. I know you were not saying that Gnu. I jumped on my soapbox a little too quickly. Please forgive. Politician in me. Steve |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: CarolC Date: 06 Dec 01 - 11:03 PM I guess I'm a bit confused about this. Like McGrath, I thought that Newfoundland and Labrador were already joined. I'm looking at a map of Canada right now (presumably made in the US), and it shows Labrador as "Newfoundland and Labrador". It does show Newfoundland as "Island of Newfoundland". Can someone please explain to a poor 'angashore in the US what the subtle nuances are here? |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 07 Dec 01 - 12:00 AM Well, it'll be interesting to see if the Canadian Post Office will change from the present NF to NL to commemorate the change. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Charlie Baum Date: 07 Dec 01 - 02:45 AM As a Canadian, you cannot drive into Nunavut without a passport. No one can. There are no roads in Nunavut which connect with the outside world. There's only a mile and a half of paved highway in the whole of Nunavut (or was when I checked on the statistic last summer). --Charlie Baum, checking the Gerald S. Doyle Limited Newfoundland songbooks for something to sing in recognition of the official name change. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Devilmaster Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:33 AM Ok, dogsled..... but my point is still valid. Its still Canada. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: gnu Date: 07 Dec 01 - 04:27 AM Ooops. J'excuse. I should not have set out the soapbox. I know the only reason a few yahoos want to separate is so that they can sell water to the US in volume. Your points are well made, Steve. CC... The fact of the matter really is that until yesterday, Labrador had no official recognition. Labrador was simply a term to describe the mainland portion of Newfoundland. Hence "NF & Lab" on the Labrador region on the map. Recall I have mentioned never call a Labradorian a Newf. Now you can't officially. Re the fact that the PQ's claim jurisdiction in Labrador, when we use to go fishing in PQ (Provence du Quebec (?)), just outside Labrador, we would give our address as Wabush, New Quebec and the fishing license would cost $10 rather than $75 if we said Wabush, Labrador. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) Date: 07 Dec 01 - 05:39 AM Hmm. I've spent a lot of time in Canada (mainly during the 80s) and It's always been one of my favourite places on god's green earth. I spent most of my time in Quebec and in the Maritimes (Cape Breton, mostly). I always felt it would have been a pity if the country started to break up. I've always felt that if Canadians, of all people, couldn't manage to maintain a multi-cultural society where everyone felt their identity and culture were valued and respected within a larger community then what hope was there for places like Palestine, Ireland, Yugoslavia etc. You have a wonderful country. Take care of it. The rest of us need you to be there. Peace. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: sian, west wales Date: 07 Dec 01 - 06:19 AM Hurrah for our own native isle, Newfoundland Not a stranger shall take one inch of its strand Our face turned to Britain, our back to the Gulf Come near at your peril, Canadian wolf! Or words to that effect - working from memory here which might not be a good idea in my twilight years... sian |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Raptor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 08:45 AM I'm sorry You folks can't talk about this til you been Screeched In! Now drink this shot of screech! And When I say "Is you a Newfoundlander?" You say "Indeed I is me old cod, Long may your big jib draw!" Did I mention you have to kiss either a dead cod or a puffin's Arse? Raptor We want quebec to separate cuz that will make the drive to Toronto a day quicker! |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Mooh Date: 07 Dec 01 - 09:03 AM Oh Canada, our homes on native land...multicultural indeed! Sure the yahoos in Ottawa have better things to do than rename a province, but they won't do those better things, so they may as well appear to do something. And, it won't loose the government significant support. Enshrining a name change in the constitution gives recognition, if nothing else, and something for folks in the future to remember as a landmark in time, however modest. Good for Labrador, assuming that's what they want. As for the shortsighted separatists thinking this has anything to do with them or their issues, suffice it to say they should be looking for their missing marbles, those missing marbles being less imaginary than the missing land. Peace, Mooh.
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: CarolC Date: 07 Dec 01 - 09:40 AM I've been Screeched In, Raptor. See this thread. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 10:03 AM Hmmmmm, Newfoundland and Labrador has been the official name of the province since early time in the 1970's. Check the government websites. I think what gnu is speaking of is ONLY constitutional recognition of that fact. (CarolC you are correct) Labrador is very sparsly populated, 80,000 square miles, 20,000 people. The vast majority of those people were either born on the island or are second or third generation Labradorians. "Self determination" for Labrador is complete bullshit the two parts of the prvince have been joined politically and have shared a common population ever since it has been legal to settle there. Some Labradorians have talked about seperation from the province. That is simply greed. It isn't going to happen. Most Quebecers do not want to seperate from Canada. But virtually all of them see nothing wrong with using the threat of seperation to get preferential treatment from the federal government. Quebec votes federally as a block. The Canadian politacal map is such that Quebec almost always decides federal elections. Why would they possibly want to leave? They would lose wealth and power by doing so. DevilMaster, I agree with you as well. I have long said that Newfoundland is the truly "distinct society" The difference between Newfoundland and Quebec culture is that Newfoundlanders don't feel the need to protect our culture. We feel it is more than strong enough to hold it's own. I believe in 1949 Had Newfoundlanders been given true self determination, they would have voted to join the US. But of course that would not have fit in to Britian's strategic plans. sian, that looks like one of the "anti-confederation songs from that period. What wasn't known at that time was that Britian was turning its back on Newfoundland. One of the most beautiful songs I know is "The Ode to Newfoundland" It describes the relationship between the land and the people in poetic and insightfull manner. It, of cousre equally applies to Labrador. It is the song we should sing to commemorate this event. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 10:06 AM BTW, I'm from Conception Bay, Bay Roberts. Where are you from Raptor? |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Raptor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 10:10 AM Me Mudder |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Raptor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 10:16 AM Actualy My family 7 in all (Me being the baby) moved to barrie ontario from st. Johns 2 years before I was born. I'm the only Ontarioan in the bunch! But NFLD is home to us all! I was last there in July To get Married on top of signal hill! And when I go "home" aunt Mable always fries up a big mess of tounges. And the bartenders on George street know me well! Raptor |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 10:32 AM Cod Tongues are marvelous. I haven't been back to Newfoundland in a long while. I wouldn't mind a trip to George Street. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Raptor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 10:37 AM When I went to George street Last time the first bar we went in had Ron Hines and next door was the Irish Decendants. Quite a night! Where are you now Jack? Raptor |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 10:52 AM Columbus Georgia USA, pretty good folk music scene but a lousy place for pubs! I saw the Irish Descendants in Ottawa a few years ago. Excellent show. Last time I saw Ron Hynes was at the Mariner in Bay Roberts in the Early 80's. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Fortunato Date: 07 Dec 01 - 10:55 AM Cod tongues? Is that sushi? What else do you guys eat up there? What's the best beer? Politics be damned, what's the music like in Conception Bay, et al? Fortuanto who's never had the chance to go. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Raptor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 11:00 AM Best Beer Is Blue Star! The music is wonderfull ! Raptor |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Devilmaster Date: 07 Dec 01 - 11:15 AM If any ya do go back home and hit george, have a beer in Trapper John's fer me.
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: RichM Date: 07 Dec 01 - 11:19 AM I'll take issue with Gnu about Quebecers not fighting during World War 2. My québecois uncle was fighting in Europe when he was 17, as was his older brother, and my dad--all from Quebec. So cut the crap. Rich McCarthy |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Devilmaster Date: 07 Dec 01 - 12:42 PM I'm going to stand on the soapbox again, be warned. The one thing in Quebec that drives me literally insane, is the Language Police. For those unaware, Quebec has a law that states that if you own a business, the French name MUST be larger than the English name on the sign. One of the only caveats to that is an English name that is a trademark. Which really pissed off some hardliners cause Jaques Villeneuve, the F1 racer, opened a bar in Montreal, called 'Newtown' (literal translation of his last name Ville{town} and neuve{new}) He registered the name as a trademark, and was therefore exempt from the language laws. HeHe!
Where this law really sucks is in southwestern Quebec, where certain towns and villages are primarily english. They still have to conform to this law. And are usually forced with a large fine, and threat of legal action.
Just a little pet peeve |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Mooh Date: 07 Dec 01 - 12:49 PM It's okay Steve, others, like me, agree. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Leeder Date: 07 Dec 01 - 12:51 PM Let's soothe Rich's ruffled feathers. Many Quebeckers volunteered to fight in World War II. Many Quebeckers opposed conscription. Gnu's statement implies that no Quebeckers would fight "unless conscripted", but this was true of only some Quebeckers. Gnu I assume was exaggerating for dramatic effect, but is technically inaccurate. (I'm not sure that the people who opposed conscription were wrong, as we were able to win the war without it.) While I'm here: the assumption of Quebec separatists is that a region cannot retain its cultural identity unless it has political sovereignty as well. This is demonstrably false, even in the case of Quebec. The survival of the Quebec culture is not threatened by the fact that it's a province of Canada rather than a sovereign nation. The same is true of Newfoundland (and, I would guess, of Labrador as well). I would assume that some Quebec separatists sincerely (if mistakenly) believe this thesis, and that others cynically use it to promote independence for their own personal ends (remember, Quebec is known for political corruption, and I'm sure lots of provincial politicians would love to get their hands into that federal till). This attitude is pernicious. So many of the brushfire wars going on in the world right now arise from some ethnic group believing that they are oppressed by other groups and that the only way they can put an end to it is by becoming a sovereign nation. (Of course, this may include oppressing the other groups in their turn.) In some cases this may be true, but I don't believe it's a sine qua non. Certinly it's not true in the case of Quebec, or of Newfoundland. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:28 PM There was a political contest about whether Quebecers. should be conscripted.They thought it was Britian's war andthat they should have a choice. But, many did volenteer and fight bravely. Thaough I've had my share of Blue Star, my favorite Newfoundland beer was India Beer. I don't think they make it any more. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: gnu Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:49 PM Ahem... it's the fish. Jack... Cape Saint Mary's, no ? Raptor... a SHOT of Screech !!!??? No bye, spit the cork on the ground. (Or maybe they were joshing me ? Anyway, being an Irish Kent County, New Brunswick boy, I drank the whole damn quart.) Rich... my sincerest apologies. I refer to Quebec as PQ for short. When I refer to PQ's, I mean Parti Quebecois members, whom I assumed, were among the majority of the 16,000 conscripted Quebecers who never actually got shipped overseas. Thank you for setting this straight and for making me think about what a stupid statement I made. BTW, Rich, since you are available for comment upon which others have commented above, why do you want Quebec to separate ?
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: gnu Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:53 PM Goodness gracious. I did it again. Rich, I apologize. My question should have asked, "Why do your uncles and father want Quebec to separate." |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: RichM Date: 07 Dec 01 - 02:04 PM Gnu, I don't want Quebec to separate. But that reflects MY heritage is mostly French, with a large portion of Irish and Scot, and a dash of aboriginal. Now, my mom, on the other hand, is Québecoise, by birth...ie, of French origin. SHE wants a separate nation. And can defend her choice politically and historically--which makes for some interesting arguments between us.
And she is old enough to remember that Canada promised Quebec after the first world war, never to conscript Quebecers for foreign wars. Rich McCarthy |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: gnu Date: 07 Dec 01 - 02:34 PM Well, I don't want to get into a debate here at the 'Cat so PM me if you feel like filling me in. I just hope that the majority of PQ's know that we respect them, despite the ramblings of some of the PQ's. Hey, how stupid would it be to disrespect the concerns of about 1/2 of about 1/3 of the population of the country ? Any idea of the percentage of Irish descendants in PQ ? It's about a third in NB... more than the Acadians (I'm half Acadian). |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: GUEST,Joual Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:04 PM You English swines no nothing of Quebec and its sufferance in history. A many of us want independents and will obtain it even if you goddam federalists dont want. So stop your insulting which is not even correct. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: gnu Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:18 PM Say now. That convinces me. Can I immigrate you ingrate ? |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:34 PM Gnu, I belive that guest is pulling our legs. The majority of Quebecers are wonderful people and are proud to be Canadians. But the squeaky wheel does get the grease. RichM you should remind your mother that Canada is a democracy and Quebecer's vote as well as anyone else. Quebec does not get to make special deals with Canada, Quebec is part of Canada. Such promises are made by politicians and we all know how reliable politicians can be. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Bill D Date: 07 Dec 01 - 04:00 PM tell you what, Canadians...we in the USA will solve the problems with a deal....we'll trade you Alabama and Utah for Newfoundland/Labrador and Quebec...then we'll tie up the French language question in the Senate in some committee headed by Strom Thurmond and you can giggle for years at the debates! deal?...no?....ah, well |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: gnu Date: 07 Dec 01 - 04:00 PM Nooo. I'm pulling his legs. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Dec 01 - 04:04 PM Do Newfoundlanders actually think of themselves as Canadians? I've never really got that impression from the ones I've met. (And they don't like being called Newfies either.) |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Dec 01 - 05:02 PM Yes we do think of ourselves as Canadians as citizens. But Newfoundlanders culturally. You probably think of yourself as as an Englisman and as a citizen of the UK. I like being called a Newfie as long as it is well intended. But in the past mainlanders told derogatory "Newfie Jokes" and use Newfie as a putdown. So many older Newfoundlanders have bad connotations with that word. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: Mooh Date: 07 Dec 01 - 06:44 PM Does anyone here besides me really really really like Christina Smith and Jean Hewson? I like how they've brought their culture to my little corner of Ontario. Just to talk about music again, folks. Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: Newfoundland is No More !!! From: John Nolan Date: 08 Dec 01 - 11:38 AM While we are in the neighborhood, does anyone have the words to Labrador Rose? |
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