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BS: Untidy Mudcatters?

Chris Amos 06 Jan 02 - 01:07 PM
PaulM 06 Jan 02 - 01:13 PM
AliUK 06 Jan 02 - 01:20 PM
Paul from Hull 06 Jan 02 - 01:29 PM
Rick Fielding 06 Jan 02 - 01:35 PM
Tweed 06 Jan 02 - 03:34 PM
Jeri 06 Jan 02 - 03:43 PM
nutty 06 Jan 02 - 03:52 PM
Jeri 06 Jan 02 - 03:55 PM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 06 Jan 02 - 03:56 PM
Mark Cohen 06 Jan 02 - 04:42 PM
Hilary 06 Jan 02 - 04:43 PM
katlaughing 06 Jan 02 - 04:58 PM
Jack the Sailor 06 Jan 02 - 05:00 PM
Susanne (skw) 06 Jan 02 - 05:57 PM
Snuffy 06 Jan 02 - 06:31 PM
Liz the Squeak 06 Jan 02 - 06:39 PM
cyder_drinker 06 Jan 02 - 06:48 PM
Bill D 06 Jan 02 - 06:50 PM
Big Mick 06 Jan 02 - 06:53 PM
Justa Picker 06 Jan 02 - 06:59 PM
Chip2447 06 Jan 02 - 06:59 PM
Banjer 06 Jan 02 - 07:01 PM
GUEST 06 Jan 02 - 07:07 PM
Mark Cohen 06 Jan 02 - 07:14 PM
Helen 06 Jan 02 - 07:16 PM
Bat Goddess 06 Jan 02 - 07:28 PM
Jeri 06 Jan 02 - 07:32 PM
Jeri 06 Jan 02 - 07:37 PM
GUEST,Bardford 06 Jan 02 - 08:59 PM
Melani 06 Jan 02 - 09:32 PM
katlaughing 07 Jan 02 - 12:15 AM
mmm1a 07 Jan 02 - 12:53 AM
GUEST,sandra 07 Jan 02 - 06:21 AM
Ma-K 07 Jan 02 - 10:03 AM
SharonA 07 Jan 02 - 10:10 AM
Peg 07 Jan 02 - 10:55 AM
Kim C 07 Jan 02 - 11:25 AM
SharonA 07 Jan 02 - 11:34 AM
wysiwyg 07 Jan 02 - 11:37 AM
Paul from Hull 07 Jan 02 - 12:11 PM
Don Firth 07 Jan 02 - 12:15 PM
Desert Dancer 07 Jan 02 - 12:42 PM
gnomad 07 Jan 02 - 01:38 PM
brid widder 07 Jan 02 - 01:38 PM
Paul from Hull 07 Jan 02 - 01:51 PM
GUEST,Steve Latimer 07 Jan 02 - 02:46 PM
Allan C. 07 Jan 02 - 03:22 PM
GUEST,Desdemona 07 Jan 02 - 04:48 PM
Gareth 07 Jan 02 - 05:07 PM
SarahC 08 Jan 02 - 03:32 PM
Morticia 08 Jan 02 - 04:17 PM
Lyrical Lady 09 Jan 02 - 12:01 AM
TeriLu 09 Jan 02 - 12:33 AM
Don Firth 09 Jan 02 - 12:56 AM
Bill D 09 Jan 02 - 11:46 AM
Gillie 09 Jan 02 - 12:53 PM
Morticia 09 Jan 02 - 01:51 PM
Maryrrf 09 Jan 02 - 03:24 PM
allie kiwi 09 Jan 02 - 03:34 PM
Maryrrf 09 Jan 02 - 03:40 PM
SharonA 09 Jan 02 - 05:56 PM
SharonA 09 Jan 02 - 06:02 PM
Helen 09 Jan 02 - 06:17 PM
GUEST,Desdemona 09 Jan 02 - 07:12 PM
Nancy King 09 Jan 02 - 07:59 PM
GUEST 29 Mar 02 - 12:56 PM
DMcG 29 Mar 02 - 02:30 PM
Linda Kelly 29 Mar 02 - 04:25 PM
DancingMom 29 Mar 02 - 11:15 PM
Mr Red 30 Mar 02 - 05:50 AM
kendall 30 Mar 02 - 08:32 AM
NELLIE 30 Mar 02 - 02:54 PM
artbrooks 30 Mar 02 - 07:14 PM
kendall 30 Mar 02 - 07:32 PM
artbrooks 30 Mar 02 - 08:08 PM
JohnInKansas 31 Mar 02 - 03:23 PM
hesperis 31 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM
Cobble 31 Mar 02 - 04:48 PM
Joe_F 01 Apr 02 - 10:47 AM

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Subject: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Chris Amos
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:07 PM

Hi,

There is an interesting article on Cecil Sharp's trips to America on The Musical Traditions site (mustrad.org.uk,it contains extracts from some of his letters, including the following;

From Hot Springs they moved on to Jackson County and the area of Balsam: Balsam is on the highest point on the Asheville - Murphy line, and is 3550 feet up. The weather however is as hot as it can be and we have found our long tramps over the mountains rather fatiguing - all the more so because so far we have hit on no singers to speak of. The fact is we are too close to Waynesville - a large industrial centre, and the inhabitants have been partially spoiled, that is from my point of view. The log-cabins are primitive enough but their owners are clean, neat and tidy, looking rather like maid-servants in respectable suburban families. It is sad that cleanliness and good music, or good taste in music rarely go together. Dirt and good music are the usual bed-fellows.

Now I have always been untidy, people have passed comment on it, but until now I had been unaware it was due to my good taste. Anyone had similar revelations lately?.

Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: PaulM
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:13 PM

The article to which Chris refers can be found here


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: AliUK
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:20 PM

I'm a total pig, just look at the mess in here! But it seems ol'C# had a point. Most of the best musicians and singers I've come acroos have only ever had a passing aquaintance with tidiness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:29 PM

You mean I need to be even MORE untidy before I develop any musical talent at all?

Whew....


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:35 PM

Untidy is a rule of law around here. When company's comin', you should see Heather and I moving at the speed of light trying to pick up stuff!

After all, my spiritual Guru IS Quentin Crisp:

"Never keep up with the Joneses...drag them down to your level".

"After four years it doesn't get any dirtier...the dust just piles up in the corners like little drifts of snow"!

Rick


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Tweed
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:34 PM

Untidy? Tell me about it. The dog's in his moulting phase and there's enough fur to stuff a mattress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:43 PM

I probably left enough of my hair at Rick's place to stuff a mattress.

Rick said that Quentin Crisp said "After four years it doesn't get any dirtier..."

Yes it does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: nutty
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:52 PM

You can add me to the list ........ housework is my least favourite activity ....... only to be undertaken when absolutely neccesary or when guests are imminent.
There are so many more worthwhile activities ..... folk music being at the top of the list.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:55 PM

Well, I'd have a spare room with a bed if I could find someplace to put the crap that's in there. I'd have a nice music room in a finished basement if I could unpack the boxes of books and other crap, but I'd have to build bookshelves, and I'd have to move crap out of the way to put the bookshelves in, and the crap would probably go in the basement so I wouldn't be able to get to the books and...aw, why bother?


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:56 PM

I am very untidy by nature...have a mound of laundry in the living room, and I have, on the advice of a doctor, taken to eating more coconut and it is in shreds all around the computer. I just tried using the mouse and realized I was using my dental floss case instead. Went to the library yesterday thinking I would spend all day Sunday improving my mind as well as cleaning my little apartment. Got the time wrong and had only 3 minutes to get some books so I grabbed some financial success ones (it would take a miracle now) and a bunch of Harlequin romances. Well, more than you probably wanted to know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 04:42 PM

When I was a member of the Sacred Cow Harmogenizers in Seattle we used to have our singings/potlucks on Sundays at the home of two of the members. (The potluck is the official religion of Seattle.) Once I had to drop something off at their house in midweek, and when I walked in the door it was absolute chaos. My friend turned to his wife and said, "Quick, let's clean up so he doesn't think we live like this!"

My place, of course, is neat as a pin. An old, bent, dull, dusty, rusty, dirt-encrusted pin.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Hilary
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 04:43 PM

AT LAST, an excuse, er, Rational Explanation for my total lack of domestication. Many thanks

H


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 04:58 PM

So the old adage Cleanliness is next to godliness means no place in the choir?**BG**

Jeri, with all that crap, maybe you need another toilet and septic system?:-)

Carefully balanced here, have to keep some of the dishes washed up and eventually there are two or three more spare cats and another dog if I don't vacuum, but the rest of it sits in piles, shifted ocassionally...or not. Glad to know we are so musically normal! LOL

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 05:00 PM

It is good to be in such company. I thought it was just me.

What shall I do? Tidy up or Mudcat, or play guitar, or write a song, or read, The Simpsons are on tonight. can't run the vacuum then.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 05:57 PM

I thought there was a slight difference between being untidy and being unclean. I certainly am the former, not necessarily the latter. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean I'm a good musician ...
However, in my experience people who make good music are far too busy for tidying up, and those who are tidy don't know what else to do with their time. I prefer associationg with the former!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:31 PM

"Cleanliness is next to godliness" - but only in an Irish dictionary! **BG**

WassaiL! V


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:39 PM

Manitas is a compulsive tidier and a melodeon player - does this prove or disprove the point??

And I should be bloody Ishaak Perlman!!!

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: cyder_drinker
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:48 PM

On top of every mountain of untidiness is at least one musical instrument. There's probably some at the bottom of the piles too, come to think of it. I haven't seen my bodhrán for years!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:50 PM

I can go from almost total chaos to 'right presentable' in a funny variable cycle...I am not a compulsory 'neat freak', and I do collect ...ummm, accumulate, stuff, but I also like to be able to find what I want...so, I use one of my few natural talents, and periodically go on a 'rearrange it and sort it' binge. (You notice I didn't say "toss it out"...we are working on that).

I am actually quite good at figuring out exotic topological solutions for the years of clutter and can do am amazing amount in a short time....(Maybe all those semi-sorted piles represent "songs not practiced", hmmm? It would explain a lot)...

There are, however, limits...and I have about done all I can without some serious 'getting rid of'...if I haven't NEEDED what's in those boxes for 15 years, I probably won't need it tomorrow, huh?

Tune in next year for a report


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:53 PM

Please let me take this opportunity to thank Chris Amos from the bottom of my heart. He has all the citizens, denizens, and all other zens of Mudcatville a great service. I now have a very good, well reasoned purpose for the state of unorganized grace that I am currently in. Ask Kath Westra or the Swans about my office. But it makes sense now, and I certainly wouldn't want to do anything that might have a negative impact on my music!!!!!!!!!!!! I am bookmarking this thread for the next high decibel discussion about the state of my office...............hahahahahaha.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:59 PM

When I am in creative mode, my studio looks like it was hit by a hurricane (but I know exactly where everything is.) When I am in an organized, no nonsense frame of mind, it gets cleaned up. It just got completely cleaned up, dusted, vacuumed, etc...a week ago. I would imagine it'll get cleaned up again about a year from now. 8-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Chip2447
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:59 PM

A pile for everything, everything in it's pile.
Chip2447


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Banjer
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:01 PM

My wife has a sign hanging on the wall that says, 'When I get the urge to clean house, I lay down til it passes', a rule she truly lives by. The dog hair has built up in certain areas to the extent that it is thought of not as dirt but insulation. We both work some long hours and neither of us has the energy to clean when we get home. I do occassionaly tidy up a bit if I know someone is coming and she vacuums on her days off. If folks can't accept us the way we are then we don't need them anyway!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:07 PM

Judging by the photos, most are also prone to sloth and slovenly in appearance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:14 PM

A lot of messiness comes from having lots of stuff. As a long-time pack rat who's trying hard to reform, I'd like to tell people about this book, which I found to be brilliant and inspirational: Clear You Clutter with Feng Shui, by Karen Kingston. What I found so helpful about this book was not the Feng Shui part, which you can take or leave (the jury is still out on it, as far as I'm concerned). The best parts are things like this:

"Keeping things 'just in case' is the number one reason that people give for keeping clutter...It indicates a lack of trust in the future....Often it is not just your own future you are concerned about providing for. You may also sincerely want to be able to help others in need. So then you save absolutely everything 'just in case' someone else needs it. This makes it virtually impossible to throw anything away! ...The more you can learn to trust that life will take care of you, the more life will take care of you."

And: "People hold on to their clutter because they are afraid to let it go--afraid of the emotions they may experience in the process of sorting through the stuff, afraid they will make a mistake and later regret getting rid of something, afraid they willleave themselves vulnerable, exposed or at risk in some way. Clutter clearing can bring up a lot of 'stuff' to be faced and dealt with, and intuitively everybody knows it. However, the rewards for clutter clearing are well worth it. Letting go of clutter leaves you free to be you, which is the greatest gift you can ever give yourself."

I know that's not going to resonate with everybody, but it sure as hell helped me, especially when I moved from my too-big house to an apartment by the beach. I still have quite a ways to go...but it feels great already.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Helen
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:16 PM

Years ago I borrowed a slogan and made up a little sign: "Dull women [people?] have immaculate houses". You wouldn't believe the number of people I upset with that one. Some people said: "are you saying I'm untidy?" and the tidy people said: "are you saying I'm dull?. Couldn't win. But it spoke volumes to me.

What I have learned:

There is always something more interesting to do than housework.
The only time I choose to do housework over something else is when I was studying and had to write papers.
When I have sufficient cashflow I get someone to clean the kitchen, the bathroom and all of the floors once a fortnight and the rest of the housework is never as daunting after that. (I'm getting towards that stage soon - in the next couple of months I hope.)

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:28 PM

"Nextness is godlier than cleanliness," as the Fuggs once said.

I've got lots more important stuff to do than clean house -- it just silts up again, anyway. I consider cat hair to be a protective mulch -- it keeps the the wear and tear and scratches and all away from the furniture. I usually know what room something is located in in -- and probably at what level. (I always did want to be an archaeologist in this lifetime.)

A friend once described our house as looking like the storage wing of the Smithsonian . . . I chose to accept that as a compliment.

My basic theory of housecleaning is that if you've got enough cool shit to look at (and a few potentially shiny surfaces are actually shiny), nobody notices that the house is an unholy mess.

My other basic theory of housecleaning can be summed up in one word: "Tarps." ('Nuff said.)

If women designed houses, there'd be a drain in the kitchen floor and you could just hose it all down.

As Pat Favorite wrote in her song, "Martha Stewart Doesn't Live Here" (to the tune of "The Old Rose and Crown"):

My house bursts with clutter, and children, and pets,
And although it's not perfect, I have no regrets,
And I have no desire for her beautiful home,
For if Miss Martha lives there, she lives there alone.

Well, no children (at least of my own), but you get the idea.

"Here's to the house, we can clean it next year!"

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:32 PM

Bat Goddess gave me a poster that says "Martha Stewart Doesn't Live Here" which is on my fridge.

Wurzel, I have an expensive Copeland whistle. At one point, I saw it sitting somewhere, and thought "It could fall off of that pile and be damaged." I put it someplace safer. I last saw it about a year ago, and I have looked EVERYWHERE!"

And Mark, if you keep things "just in case" for long enough, they become collectors items if not actual antiques. I have an honest-to-goodness 60's era green troll with purple hair. (If I know where that is, why can't I find the damned whistle?) I have antiques that were handed down by pack rat ancestors because NOBODY EVER GOT RID OF ANYTHING! I've got kids' books from the 1890's, and old General Electric stuff from my grandfather. In one of my attempts to reduce clutter, I threw out the first Star Wars comic book...oy! I don't think I could survive in a minimalist decorating scheme.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:37 PM

Ooh...synchronicity...


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST,Bardford
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 08:59 PM

Interesting thread. IMark, I found your quotes from the Feng Shui/Clutter book interesting. A family member has a hoarding compulsion, and from the little reading I've done into the OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) spectrum, Kingston reinforces what is (partially) at the root of this behavior. Decision-making issues abound here as well. There was one person cited who was a hoarder and an organizer - everything she saved (which, with a hoarding compulsion, can be literally most everything) was boxed or bagged and labelled. She had a shoebox labelled, and containing "pieces of string too short to save". This is humurous, but jeez, can you imagine living like that?

"This might be worth something someday" is a justification my relative uses for her behaviour. Consequently, not much of anything gets thrown away. My take on it is this: if everything is valuable, then nothing is.

Interestingly, this person is extremely creative. The creativity is, however, stifled and suffocated by the hoarding behaviour. A shame, really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Melani
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 09:32 PM

I am no longer untidy! I just finished my yearly housecleaning last week!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 12:15 AM

Well, there's compulsiveness and then there's the stuff like Jeri has, "treasures to be" which I am really grateful some ancestor of mine never threw out. I have gotten better about getting rid of stuff that isn't in that category and my main criteria for keeping stuff now is, will my kids treasure this when I am gone or does it go to a museum? The second is, will I want to use this, display it, or share it now or later on? If yes to either of those, it's a keeper. My mom used to walk into my house and tell me I ought to sell tickets, it was like going to a museum...lots of clutter, but almost all of it interesting "stuff." **BG** And, despite the appearance, I know the approximate location of darn near everything!

Mark, in Catherine Ponder's books, she advocates creating a vacumm for what we want to bring into our lives, i.e. a woman who wanted new clothing so that she could get a good job, gave away most of what she had, expecting new clothes to fill up the space. Through various channels of seeming serendipity she wound up with new, very nice clothing. Even getting a divorce can create that vacumm...making space for someone new in our life, when we are ready.:-)

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: mmm1a
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 12:53 AM

Note to my self (which I will probally lose ) must show this thread to my husband next time He bitches about the house. Thanks I needed this mmm


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST,sandra
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 06:21 AM

"A pile for everything & everything in it's pile" is how I live & work. Many thanks, Chip2447. This will be my new screen saver at work, I think. Or maybe I'll just type it up & try to find a surface to stick it on. Last year I was forced to move desks - management spoke to me about it first as teams were moving about & they knew I would not like moving, then my 2 dearest friends helped me move everything. Back & forwards we walked carrying piles of official stuff & lots of toys. One even came from his new section to help. Thats's friendship (dunno. what his bosses thought).

In the days that my brother was a removalist he only helped me move once (then he moved interstate, after saying once was enough).


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Ma-K
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 10:03 AM

You have really made my day and week and and and and My husband says I should live in a house with no flat surfaces. nuf said....Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 10:10 AM

Hello, I'm Sharon, and I'm an untidy Mudcatter.

I clipped a "Frank & Ernest" comic strip years ago that says "A place for everything, and everything all over the place." That's still my motto!

I also have the "Dull women have immaculate houses" wooden sign hanging in my kitchen. There's no dot on the "i", though; I'm thinking of glueing a dust-bunny there.... since I have so many to choose from.

Sandra: In the past year and a half, the office I work in has moved twice – each time to a different building! This has resulted in a neater desk surface but more cluttered drawers and file cabinets, as papers have been hastily stuffed away (and, in some cases, rescued from the trash can into which my boss has thrown them) before the movers hauled the furniture away. So now I have a pretty good idea where things are, but it would've helped if I'd had time to label the file folders I threw the papers into!

The same tactic doesn't seem to have worked in my personal life. I've changed apartments twice in the last five-and-a-half years (I've been in the present one for over a year) – both times under duress – but surfaces just seem to have gotten more cluttered as storage shelves are disassembled and left that way when the floor space needed to rebuild them is filled with boxes! I'm making it my project for 2002 to create the "away" necessary to put things away...... but, so far, every time I create a "vacuum" (as kat puts it) of space, I bring more clutter into the place to fill it. Nature abhors a vacuum, and so does stuff. And so do I; I hate that machine! (Not that there's a lot to vacuum... just the paths between the boxes and piles of stuff!)

And if I ever get my apartment in order, there's a 10' x 10' rental storage locker waiting its turn! Eek!

Sharon


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Peg
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 10:55 AM

I think untidy and dirty are two different things...I am the queen of clutter and a total packrat, but I have a pretty low tolerance of filth. I like to clean my floors thoroughly once a week or so and lie my bathroom and kitchen to be clean. Likewise I have seen people whose homes are very neat in appearance but who have not scrubbed their toilet or mopped their floor in months!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:25 AM

Messmakers of the world unite!

Oscar Wilde once said something like, Man was made for greater things than pushing dirt around. I don't remember the exact quote - maybe someone else does?

And another good one by A.A. Milne: One of the great advantages of being disorderly is that one constantly makes new discoveries. (once again, something like that)

I hate cleaning house. There are just more important things to do. I used to save all my magazines, but I don't do that anymore, except for things I reference. I do keep all my jewelry-making magazines, and all my issues of Fiddler. Anything else goes bye-bye, unless there's something particular in it I want to save.I do clean up when company's coming, at the speed of light, like Rick and Heather.)

Mister and I admittedly do have too much stuff for our small space. We do go through and get rid of things periodically, but probably not often enough.

Glad to know I'm not the only one!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:34 AM

Cleaning up at the speed of light when company's coming: I once had a boyfriend who dubbed that phenomenon "The Immaculate Deception."


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:37 AM

Untidy? Not I. Must be the cats. So irresponsible!

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 12:11 PM

You're right there Wizzy...

Whoever said Cats were clean (OR tidy) animals, eh?

My two are terrible...

Not sure about the correlation about tidiness & musical talent though....the worst culprit sings worse than I do...


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 12:15 PM

For years now I've been attempting to clean up my desk so I can actually use it. But when I pick up a pile of stuff to sort, the only place I can find within reach is the empty spot from which I picked up the pile in the first place. So I put it back down, my spirit broken. Sometimes I give some consideration to the direct approach (a bellow of rage and a mighty sweep of the arm). But if I actually did have a clean and tidy desk, it would clash with the decor of the rest of our apartment.

We got a scanner and a new printer just recently. The new printer went into the spot occupied by the old printer, but excavating a place to put the scanner was a major problem.

Books. We have lots and lots of books, a substantial percentage of which are actually in bookcases. If a wall of the building were to fall out, we probably wouldn't be aware of it.

(sigh)

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 12:42 PM

Don, I've discovered that the nice thing about a scanner is that it has a flat top, so it doesn't have to entirely replace the pile you moved to make space for it... as long as the pile on top isn't too big, you can still lift the lid to insert the item to be scanned!

Now if I could only separate myself from the old computer which was "replaced" last August, I'd have lots more room to organize the piles on my desk.

~ Becky in Tucson
yet another 'Catter about to forward this to her spouse


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: gnomad
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 01:38 PM

'Nuther slovenly householder here I'm afraid, but I KNOW there are some tidiness freaks out there in the folk world, are they hiding or do none of them read BS threads?

I think there may be a pattern emerging??


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: brid widder
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 01:38 PM

Paul..."Not sure about the correlation about tidiness & musical talent though....the worst culprit sings worse than I do... "

I'm trying to remember when you visited here !!!! or should we start guessing who you mean?

I am relieved to read this thread...and agree with you all...there are SO many things to do that are more fun than housework...my house isn't untidy...it has CHARACTER!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 01:51 PM

Well, by the 'worst culprit' I ment my 'singing' cat.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 02:46 PM

It's nice to find out it isn't only me.

The adage that I live by at work is "If a cluttered desk is the sign of a cluttered mind, then what does an empty desk mean?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 03:22 PM

I once saw a sign in a friend's kitchen that said: My home is clean enough to be healthy and messy enough to be happy.

I think this describes my lifestyle rather well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 04:48 PM

So THAT explains it----I must be a GENIUS!!!!!

I'd be inclined to think that the amount of mental & physical energy required to keep things neat & tidy would preclude there being enough strength left for any creative endeavours...although as the mother of 3 boys my situation may be rather more extreme than some ;~). IMO, houses should be warm & cosy to qualify as "homes", and that means you're allowed to actually live in them!

And don't even get me started on those Martha Stewart type people who expend their intellectual reources(?) on various clever ways to make crafts out of dryer lint or dog hair.....I've always considered dust a protective coating for fine furniture!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Gareth
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 05:07 PM

The old Amstrad CPC Disc Drives did not work properly unless lubricated by copious layers of cigarette ash.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: SarahC
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 03:32 PM

Well, reading these posts I feel better already!

Here's to that 'lived in' look!

Cheers Sarah


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Morticia
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 04:17 PM

I KNOW there's a desk under the paper somewhere because something must be holding it all up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 12:01 AM

Morticia ... don't loose the little map in all those papers ... hopefully you'll need it one day!

LL ( who is untidy as well)


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: TeriLu
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 12:33 AM

How about cars? That's where I'm known as the Queen of Clutter. My daughter's friend felt compelled to clean my car, making it look brand-new, after borrowing it for a week. He proudly showed me his work, and though appreciative, as well as finding it very funny, I felt somewhat embarassed. Then my husband offered to lend him his chimney sweep van for a week! The friend good-naturedly laughed and replied he wouldn't know what was supposed to be clean or dirty in that vehicle! Actually, I find it somewhat refreshing to have a clean freak around, particularly one who is male and much younger than I. Whenever he gets too bothered, we can rely on him to do his thing, and we benefit from his compulsion, while he benefits from our home/food/company/car/daughter. A nice bartering arrangement!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 12:56 AM

I KNOW there's a desk under the paper somewhere because something must be holding it all up.

Unless it's just more paper. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 11:46 AM

I think there is a difference between those whose basic living space CAN be cleaned and/or ordered in a day or two (as when company is expected), and those who simply have no space to put away or hide things if they wanted to.

We are a mixed type...there are almost impassable areas, but, we also are able (with some diligent sorting)to host a sing or like this coming Sat., a birthday party. The house is large enough to make huge stacks in one section, while leaving the required areas passable.

We have only one child, and one thing which drives me to attempt order is guilt over leaving this mess to him someday!....The other thing is, although I can NOW manage to sort and stack and creatively topologize the excess, I am 62...and who knows when I might suddenly NOT be able!....so I have a sort of goal to reduce the clutter to where serious old age may be tolerable without danger of disappearing under toppling heaps of Ballad books and beer bottles!

wish me luck!...(or, come help..*grin*...I might have neat prizes to send away with you!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Gillie
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 12:53 PM

Can I nominate Badger and Tig


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Morticia
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 01:51 PM

Don, that is a terrible, terrible thing to say.....and may be quite true, therefore I shall postpone tidying just in case there is no desk *BG*.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 03:24 PM

I fall into the untidy but clean category. Lately I've been making a concerted effort to get rid of clutter, and I may check out that Feng shui book recommended in a previous thread. I've come to realize that a lot of my "fear of uncluttering" has to do with sentimental attachments. I think this is why I hold on to things I never use and don't need. So my house is somewhat cluttered, but I do keep things reasonably clean and sanitary!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: allie kiwi
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 03:34 PM

This thread has just made me feel so much better about everything - the piles, the things leaning against each other etc.

The thing is - even with the clutter I know where everything is. It is only when my husband starts 'tidying up' that things go missing. I wouldn't mind if he put things away and could remember where they went, but he has this ability to move them to odd places, and not rememeber ever having SEEN said item, let alone moving it, and putting it... somewhere. He is 6 feet 4 to my 5 feet 3 and has a tendency to put things 'up' and in odd places. (For example, my kilt went missing for over a year, and turned up FOLDED (??? who would ever fold a kilt - think or the ironing!) in the chilly bin (cooler, thing you put beer etc in for a picnic?).

My mother is a fanatical cleaner. Her house is spotless and she will put away a glass as 'messy' while I am turning to the fridge to get the milk to pour in said clean glass... She gave me a sign to put up - "DON'T PUT IT DOWN, PUT IT AWAY!". I hate it. She has no music in her, and thinks it 'frivolous'. She cannot see WHY I need 2 guitars, 3 clarinets, 2 violins, a flute, a piccolo, assorted tin whistles, various percussion necessities, and a piano...
My grandmother, a person after my own heart gave me another sign that says:
"Although my house is quite a mess, come in, relax, converse. It isn't always quite like this... sometimes it's even worse!"

Yup, that one is me *grin*
Allie
who hopes she did the html stuff right...


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 03:40 PM

Oh, I like that last saying! And I must say I'd rather be in a somewhat messy but warm house than a spotless, overtidy one. In my house, the dog is welcome to get on the furniture and everybody is encouraged to put their feet up on the coffee table! And I do allow smoking in moderation although I'm a non smoker myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: SharonA
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 05:56 PM

More sayings: I have a slate plaque that reads, "If you're coming to see me, come anytime. If you're coming to see my house, make an appointment."

I also have a trivet with the motto "Thank God for dirty dishes; they have a tale to tell. While others may go hungry, we're eating very well."

Other signs I have seen: "Martha Stewart doesn't live here" and also "Martha Stewart and Bob Vila don't live here".


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: SharonA
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 06:02 PM

Oops! I forgot to include these: "Around here, 'Normal' is just a setting on the dryer."

"No decorating scheme is complete without cat hair" (and/or "dog hair").


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Helen
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 06:17 PM

allie,

I shared a house for a year with an obsessive/compulsive putter-awayer. I have a similar story about the time I turned around to the frig to get the sandwich filling out, and found the bread, the bread board, and the bread knife washed, dried and put away before I could put the filling on the sandwich. I had to get everything out again to cut the tomatoes up, of course. Time to move somewhere else.

It is that flatmate's mother, who was even worse than my flatmate, that I always think of as a dull woman with an immaculate house. She definitely didn't have a life.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 07:12 PM

We have friends who swear by inviting guests for one weekend a month; it forces them to tidy up. We have a huge party every year for 12th Night, which has the effect of making us get all of Santa's prezzies, etc. out of the living room (of course, they just get piled on the children's floors, but that's good enough for us!).


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Nancy King
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 07:59 PM

Hoo-eee, I always knew Mudcatters were soulmates!

One of my favorite "Shoe" cartoons has our hero sitting at his piled-high desk, thinking, "My data storage and retrieval system is very scientific. It's based on some simple concepts of basic physics. Mostly friction and gravity."

I think Mark's Clutter/Feng Shui book is probably on the right track, but I much prefer the music explanation. Except it might mean I need to get messier? I dunno. I bring my house up to minimum standard two or three times a year, whether it needs it or not.

One of the basement bedrooms is full of stuff belonging to my son(s); it is familiarly known as The Snakepit. I envision cleaning it out with a shovel if I ever move out. You're not an empty-nester till they move their stuff out, you know.

Half of my bedroom -- the half visible to visitors heading for the bathroom -- looks OK, but the other half is piled high with boxes of books, boxes of mementoes retrieved from my late parents' house, gifts to be recycled, stuff that should be taken to the consignment shop whenever I get around to that, etc., etc. I even brought back from the parents' house a very nice teak wardrobe that should nicely hold a bunch of the stuff now sitting on shelves, so that the books could go on the shelves, and the stuff in the den could go where the books are, and.... But have I gotten around to starting this process yet? Nooooo...

I think this might be partly hereditary (nature/nurture). In the parents' house, among many other things, we found phone books from 1987, an entire drawer full of ballpoint pen tops (no pens, just tops), four large boxes all sealed up with tape and labeled "take with," which proved to be stuff they'd brought with them when they moved to Florida 20 years before. They weren't particularly musical, though... But wait! The article says good TASTE in music also qualifies. Well, there you go.

Cheers, Nancy


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 12:56 PM

resolution lasted until st patrick day now its a mess again


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 02:30 PM

One thing that is striking about these posts is that everyone who has piles of papers, stuffed bookshelves and more books on top of those, etc etc knows exactly where everything is (unless it is a Copeland whistle).

I'm the same. Yesterday I referred to 'infir taris' from a nursery rhyme which my collegue did not recognise. I found the relevant book (The Oxford Book of Nursery Rhymes) in around a minute and the poem itself in a few more seconds. Yet my youngest is now fifteen and its about 13 years since I picked that book up.

So why bother to tidy up if we can find things so quickly anyway (except, of course, Copeland whistles)? This advice to throw away stuff you've collected simply to make the place look neater would have meant I lost that book years ago. Surely there is no-one insensitive enough to throw books away? If there is, the houses they end up with would be the ones Cecil Sharp complained about: neat, tidy - and empty?


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 04:25 PM

On more than one occasion I have had to phone my mobile number in order to locate the blessed thing. Am I untidy - I guess so, but I do like clean ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: DancingMom
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 11:15 PM

Kindred spirits.

There are six people and a dog living in our tiny little house. It usually looks like a train wreck in here, but our best friends don't care. The ONLY thing that puts a burr under my bustle is COMPANY COMING. Sharon M.


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 05:50 AM

Cleanliness is next to Fastidiousness

My contention is: if you can't find it it IS untidy.
Function over form any day!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: kendall
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 08:32 AM

I cant stand dirt and clutter. That's why I keep as much of it in my house as I can. Dont want the neighborhood to see it. Actually, for a man living alone, I'm not too bad... am I Peg, Sinsull, Harpgirl, Seamus?


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: NELLIE
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 02:54 PM

I used to have a sign in my living room when my children were small. It said.

Creative people are untidy, intelligent people understand. I wish I had it now.

Jenny


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 07:14 PM

Someone mentioned in a previous response the concept of hiring major cleaning once every two weeks or so. Herself's version of that is: hire the cleaning done, but first spend 4 hours picking up the place so the cleaning person can find the floors. helps to locate the overdue library books...and I KNOW where MY bodhran is!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: kendall
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 07:32 PM

Me thinks I have fallen among truth stretchers! (I feel right at home)


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 08:08 PM

You're right, Kendall...maybe I don't know where ALL the bodhrans are....


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 03:23 PM

We are all kindred sould, but...

I saw a couple of people mention - "It'll get better if I build some bookcases," or something similar.

Get over it! When I realized I was dealing with a bookoholic, I started building bookcases (and buying a few "nice" ones for the upstairs). With an even 30 6 foot x 3 foot cases, plus some built-ins, we now have 205 "shelves" totaling 459.8 lineal feet, many of which are filled "double deep." Any book actually in use will be found in one of several piles near where we need them, because the shelves are full. Stir occasionally.

I'd build some more, but we've run out of walls.

A couple of people have said "if it's 15 years old and you haven't used it you should throw it away." There is no statute of limitations on TREASURE.

In 1962, a former spouse complained that our new clothes dryer was "making funny noises and sounds like it's going to explode." Naturally, I surveyed the situation, made knowing noises, and bought a repair part (which I hid in the sack of replacement vacuum cleaner bags where I knew she would never see it.) Since I had "done something," the dryer was now ok. In 1991, the part in question broke, and - 29 years later - I installed the "new" part.

(Yes, it was still in the sack with the cleaner bags - but I'm not telling whether the sack still contained some of the 20 original bags.)

In 1992 I encountered a "technical problem" of serious proportions that had been "studied" by a group of a half-dozen quite competent engineers for several weeks without resolution. A NASA report that I had "squirreled away" in 1959 made it possible for me to provide a definitive answer with less than two hours work. The "correct" answer prevented a supplier from "cutting corners" in a way that would have seriously compromised emergency evacuation provisions on a major passenger airplane.

You don't have to keep anything, but what we keep becomes part of what we are. That's the scary part.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: hesperis
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM

Isn't mess just FASCINATING?

The ways that people react to clutter and uncleanliness... wow.

I am firmly in the "there are more fun things to do than the floors" camp. ;)

Actually, recently I have been staying at an ashram, and the owner actually enjoys housecleaning. The attitude is beginning to rub off on me a little. I never knew it could actually be a fun and creative thing to do. (Yes, fun!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoa...)

Of course, I'd still rather be on the computer, or playing music!


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Cobble
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 04:48 PM

A tidy desk is the sign of a degenerate mind ! ! !

House work is best done only when you can see the difference.......

Gillie... should you let the cats out of the bag......

Mrs C


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Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 10:47 AM

I believe in confined & classified clutter. I have four hellboxes, for big & small electrical & nonelectrical things. Watches that have been dead for 30 years! You never know. When the little metal feet of my new toaster oven slithered around on top of the microwave, I got out the odd piece of the mouse pad that I had cut out to make room for the corner of the keyboard, cut four pieces out of it, and fastened them down with double-backed tape. (Every household needs a dozen rolls of different kinds of tape.) Every use of available materials is a small victory in life. Shopping constitutes honorable defeat.


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Mudcat time: 28 November 12:48 PM EST

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