Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Don Firth Date: 11 Aug 13 - 02:06 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_0b3J4BFcc Right at the very beginning, she introduces herself. Listen carefully! How much more does anyone else need? That's the way SHE pronounces HER name. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Nick Date: 11 Aug 13 - 12:44 PM Hard 'G' - confirmed by her publicity team. From: Ken Weinstein To: Nick Blair Sent: Sunday, 11 August 2013, 15:28 Subject: Re: Gillian Welch Hard G like girl Ken Weinstein Big Hassle Media 40 Exchange Place - Ste 1900 New York, NY 10005 www.bighassle.com www.twitter.com/bighasslemedia www.facebook.com/bighasslemedia On Aug 11, 2013, at 2:07 AM, "Nick" http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=49304&messages=85#743926 There is a remarkably long running thread on mudcat (11years) which still rumbles on, which is about the pronunciation of Gillian's name. Would someone there definitively know? Regards Nick |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Aug 13 - 07:29 PM You mean an anglicised version of Guillaume? I'd not be surprised if that occurs in some places. Perhaps Cajun? But I'd doubt if it has anything to do wiith Gillian. I'd be inclined too think someone read it, liked the look and assumed the G was hard. Happens to lots of names and other words. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Rumncoke Date: 10 Aug 13 - 07:20 PM I have only heard Jillian as a girls name, and Gillian - though I think it might be spelt Guillian, for boys. The Gilliam version is linked to William, I think. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Aug 13 - 10:17 AM The same conusin came up when the Bosnia entry for Eurovision in 2009 was a group called Regina, but with a hard G. A confusing language at times. As demonstrated by the variety of ways my name gets pronounced. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,Mr. Rabbit Date: 09 Aug 13 - 05:51 PM I went through this entire thread which spans 11 years and I didn't find what I was looking for: a link to Ms. Welch pronouncing her own name. I did a search on youtube and found a video where she introduces herself in the first three seconds. Hard "G" it is! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_0b3J4BFcc |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Don Firth Date: 24 Jun 12 - 03:17 PM Please excuse a note of pride here. My two sisters, both National Figure Skating Champions, in action. Their championship triumphs came some a few years after this photo was taken. Don Firth Now back to our regular broadcast. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Don Firth Date: 24 Jun 12 - 02:55 PM Or translated into American: "I don't care what you call me as long as you don't call me late for dinner." A lot of people don't really mind what variation of their name you use. But some do, and sometimes for good reason. In one of my posts way above, I mentioned a young woman nameed "Christine." She was a professional model and objected to being called "Chris" or "Chrissy." "Christine" was both the name her parents gave her and her professional name. The "William," whom I mentioned in the same post preferred being called "Will" rather than "Bill" because he was a singer and he used "Will" on posters, programs, and such. I find it is just simple courtesy to use the name by whick a person introduces him or herself. Like my neighor across the hall: he introduced himself as "James," his wife calls him "James," and I think it would be discourteous for me to start calling him "Jim" or "Jimmie." It ain't that difficult, folks! Don Firth P. S. My folks dubbed me "Donald," a good, solid Scottish name, and when I was little, they called my "Donnie," as did my sisters, Mary and Patricia. When I was about thirtenn and feeling all grown up, I felt that "Donnie" was a diminutive and somehow demeaning, and insisted on being called "Don." Short, tidy, strong. Not much one can do with "Mary," so my older sister was fine with that, but Patricia began objecting to being called "Patsy" (a slang term used on radio crime dramas for a dupe or sucker) and wanted to be called "Pat." Fine. I've noticed that on a lot of American TV comedies, the doofus in the cast is named "Donald." Why, I don't know. But the other characters always address him with a tone of contempt, and he is always portrayed as a bit of a stumble-bum. So I'm sticking with "Don," "Don Firth" is the name I have always used on posters, programs and such since I first started singing professionally. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Jim McLean Date: 24 Jun 12 - 01:43 PM I agree with Don Firth but apropos an earlier posting, I was Christianed James, my professional name is Jim, my wife calls me Jimmie, my Mother called me Hamish and my father called me Seamus. The Scottish phrase comes to mind ... 'I don't care what you ca' me as long as you don't ca' me ower a dyke'. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Don Firth Date: 23 Jun 12 - 02:50 PM Mein Gott in Himmel!! STILL AT IT!! You can squeeze it, you can shake it, you can bang it against the wall, but what it all comes down to is that THAT is the way SHE pronounces HER name, and has indicated that she prefers HER name to be pronounced that way when referring to HER or calling HER by name. So it is RUDE to insist on pronouncing it differently. National differences and word and name derivations have nothing to do with this specific issue. And, of course, were you to meet a woman whose name is "Gillian" and prefers it pronounced with a soft "G," then that's what you should do. Is this really that difficult? Don Firth |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,guest Date: 23 Jun 12 - 02:56 AM Am I drinking GOOSEBERRY JUICE or JOOSEBERRY GOOSE, I can't tell anymore BUT IT SURE TASTES GOOD ! |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Chris in Portland Date: 05 Feb 11 - 12:59 PM Wikipedia tells us her roots, but not how the name was chosen. Would be interesting to know. "Gillian[a 1] Howard Welch was born on October 2, 1967 in New York City, and was adopted by Ken and Mitzie Welch, comedy and music entertainers.[1] Her biological mother was a freshman in college, and her father was a musician visiting New York City.[1][2][3] Welch has speculated that her biological father could have been one of her favorite musicians, and she later discovered from her adoptive parents that he was a drummer.[1][2][3] Alec Wilkinson of The New Yorker stated that "from an address they had been given, it appeared that her mother ... may have grown up in the mountains of North Carolina".[1] When Welch was three, her adoptive parents moved to Los Angeles to write music for The Carol Burnett Show. They also appeared on The Tonight Show.[1]" I'd like to hear a Gillian and Iris duet cd! Chris |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,Len Date: 05 Feb 11 - 12:18 PM My surname is Gibler, hard g, unlike gibs on a lathe. But I had a French professeur who insisted on the pronunciation Jib-lay. I like the soft Gillie, cuz it sounds like jelly which Gillian is sweeter than. I met her once so I know. I told her, "Gee, I love, uh... gosh, I like to do your uh songs mmm er Gosh thanks. You're really Great!" |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Mrs.Duck Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:18 PM Strangely enough that story about the boy called 'Gooey' was told to me by my teacher in primary school over 40 years ago. She claimed it was a child she had taught some years earlier. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Murray MacLeod Date: 02 Jan 10 - 11:48 AM that's a cracker, bruce, I hadn't heard it before, but I can just imagine Chic telling that story. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: bruceCMR Date: 02 Jan 10 - 10:37 AM This reminds me of Chic Murray's story about his friend called "Gooey". His name was actually "Guy", but it was a name that his parents had only seen in print, never heard spoken. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,Paul Burke Date: 02 Jan 10 - 09:59 AM I like the Welsh (S4C) program, Clwb Rygbi. As for GBS's fish, it was deliberately far fetched to illustrate his campaign for rationalised spelling. Sadly that worked as badly then as it does now, because of the sheer variety of English pronunciation. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Stower Date: 02 Jan 10 - 07:23 AM "Ghoti" as "fish", as in George Bernard Shaw's example, doesn't work, I think (though I am happy to be corrected if anything that follows is wrong). The logic is as follows: Gh = "f" as in "rough" o = "ih" as in "women" ti = "sh" as in "ration" I don't think there are any examples in the English language of 'gh' being pronounced 'f' at the beginning of a word, only in the middle or at the end; and I don't think there are any examples of 'ti' as 'sh', either (though there are plenty of examples of 'tion' as 'shon'). As for 'o' as 'ih', I'm struggling to think of any example beside 'women' = 'women', so it is questionable whether this constitutes a rule in grammar. Does anyone know different and can give examples? Stower |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Murray MacLeod Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:23 PM Actually, Spaw, Fuckhead is pronounced "Fouquette" (in much the same way that "Bucket" is pronounced "Bouquet" ) |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: catspaw49 Date: 01 Jan 10 - 11:00 AM I encounter people here and elsewhere who spell their names in traditional fashion but are all pronounced "Fuckhead." Spaw |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Dave Roberts Date: 31 Dec 09 - 02:11 PM I know of someone who spells his name, Dave, with a 'y'. i.e. DAYVE Is this unique? David Gareth Roberts. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: PoppaGator Date: 31 Dec 09 - 01:44 PM As an American (or USian, as per Frank Lloyd Wright), I spent the first 25 or 30 years of my life never encountering the name "Gillian." Then I learned that an acquaintance was about to marry someone by that name. Seeing the name in print before hearing it pronounced, I assumed that the initial letter was a "hard" G. Only after being introduced in person did I learn that the young lady pronounced her name with a "soft" G, like "Jillian." For what it's worth, this Gillian was born in Canada. Perhaps her name was/is more common up there than here in the States, where it is a decidedly uncommon name. Ms. Welch was named by her parents, presumably Americans like me, and they obviously would have determined how her name would be pronounced. I would guess that they encountered the name in print, liked it, assumed that the pronunciation would be "just like it's spelled" according to their understanding, and put it to use. If she were named after someone (especially if "Gillian" were a "family name" given to a long series of aunties and grandmas dating all the way back to the Old Country), she would perhaps be more likely to use the traditional pronunciation with the soft G. *************** "JONH"!!!! Pretty amusing! I have become more and more sympathetic to the notion that every person is entitled to determine the correct spelling and pronunciation of his/her own name, no matter how unconventional, but I, too, would have difficulty going along with this particular affectation. Saying that this person "styles himself" Jonh implies that the contrarian spelling was NOT the work of his parents, but something he came up with himself. If such is indeed the case, I agree that he should not be "rewarded" with unquestioning recognition/affirmation. I remember, years ago, becoming aware of the first of what would become a long series of celebrity athletes named "Micheal." My reaction was that the person was WRONG, and stupid to boot, for not using the "correct" spelling of Michael. I have since gotten over that attitude. First of all, it was the person's parents, not he himself, who determined the spelling -- the "namee" should never be blamed for the unconventionality of his/her name. Plus which, it's not for me to judge those parents, or even to speculate whether their choice of a name and of the spelling thereof may have been the result of limited education or a conscious choice to be "different." Since then, of course, we have seen a proliferation of newly coined names, especially among African-Americans. For a while, I maintained a bit of sneering contempt for many of these made-up names (especially the attempts at a sort of pseudo-French-African language featuring apostrophes as accents in all the "wrong" places), but I have come around to the position that ALL such names, even the most seemingly outlandish, should be regarded as examples of creativity, not ignorance. After all, why shouldn't Black Americans create their own entirely new culture? Certainly, the "slave names" inherited from one's ancestors' owners are really not suitable (as famously pointed out by Malcolm X, among others). Why not accept the development of a whole new nomenclature for people of an emerging culture that is neither Anglo-American nor African, and that will no longer accept any hint of subservience or inferiority. Go for it! No matter how wacky some of these neologisms might seem to some overeducated outsiders, NONE of these newly-invented names could possibly be any nuttier than some of those abovementioned ultra-archaic British place-names and family names! PS: I was quite gratified to learn that the not-uncommon English surname "Menzies," which I've encountered often enough in print but never heard spoken, is (and has always been) pronouced "Mingus." NEVER would have guessed! |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST Date: 31 Dec 09 - 12:39 PM It's definitely GILLian, not JILLian, and I don't know WHAT Murray is talking about. I know other women who pronounce it the same way, and some who do not. Murray, before you go making accusations take a look at your admitted "no life" self. Gillian Welch is a gracious and talented lady. It is hugely unfair to say something and THEN say "Oh, I better not say." That's just plain nasty. People, take what this person says with several grains of salt. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: catspaw49 Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:40 PM The temptation to refer to him as "Crapper" would be pretty high......... Spaw |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Murray MacLeod Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:32 PM I don't have a life, Don, so little things like this help to keep me amused. The nub of the matter is this: Gillian Welch chooses to pronounce her name with a hard "G". All the other women in the world called Gillian are content with a soft "G". Whether you comply with Ms Welch's somewhat idiosyncratic choice is up to each individual imo. I actually know somebody who chooses to style himself JONH. Never in a million years would I dream of indulging his vanity by spelling his name thus. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: peregrina Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:23 PM This.... and the new and long awaited Dave Rawlings machine (with a bit of Gillian) album 'Friend of a Friend' has just been released, or escaped, along with rumors of a new Gillian CD for the new year! |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Don Firth Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:12 PM This is still going on? Don't you folks have lives? It reminds me of the card that says How to Keep an Idiot BusyAnd on the other side, it says exactly the same thing. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,Doc John Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:09 PM My wife is Gillian shortened to Gill (both with soft G's) - an alternative spelling of Jillian; her maiden name was Gill (hard G). There's an author also Gil Gil. The hard G is usually written Gil as in Gil (Gilbert) Houston ie Cisco. For those old enough a Gill (soft) was one quarter of a pint. However in the North of England if you asked for a Gill of Beer, you'd get a half pint but the milkman would bring quarter of a pint. Much better and easier than those silly metric measure. Doc John |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,heric Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:56 PM I'm sure I heard Emmylou Harris address her directly with a soft G in Down from the Mountain and she didn't have a temper tantrum about it or anything. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: catspaw49 Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:32 PM All of you have it wrong. Its pronounced "juh-BLON-skee" but she spells it Gillian even though her mother named her Snorflooper. Hope this helps........ Spaw - pronounced smart-ass |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:00 PM Sometimes people just give up on the correct pronumciation of their names, as seems to have happened with my surname. My daughter Catriona has trouble with people who emphasise the "o" in her name, so she uses the pronunciation Katrina in England. At least some of the American Menzieses kept their pronumciation, and changed the spelling to Mingus. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,Hugh McIntyre Date: 25 Nov 09 - 09:27 AM Inspector GHOTI... To quote G B Shaw this name is pronounced "FISH" GHOTI...GH as in rough...O as in women....TI as in nation. Simple! |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Howard Jones Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:50 AM Sources on the meaning and origin of names seem to agree that "Gillian" is a feminine version of the name "Julian", and the G is soft. Julian is from the Latin and is pronounced with either a soft "J" or "Y", but in English this is invariably "J". This confirms that the "correct" pronunciation of Gillian is with a soft G. However it is of course up to the individual how they choose to say their own name. I used to work with someone who pronounced his own surname in different ways, so it is quite possible that Gillian Welch uses both hard and soft G interchangeably. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:57 PM I learned "Ghoti" as "fish" from George Bernard Shaw's writings on English orthographic simplification. Gh = "f" as in "rough" o = "ih" as in "women" ti = "sh" as in "ration" Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: gnomad Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:38 PM Rough gh=F Women wo=I Notion ti=SH ghoti = fish |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Artful Codger Date: 14 Aug 09 - 07:16 PM The famous Keating character is Inspector Ghote--I'm unaware of an Inspector Ghoti. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,Ray Date: 14 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM Correct Terry. If anyone wants to know why, I'll let Terry explain. Ray |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Phil Edwards Date: 14 Aug 09 - 02:23 PM We live and learn - I assumed (wrongly) that it was Gillian with a Jill. I only came to this thread because I wanted to know whether 'Welch' rhymed with 'belch' - or, well, 'Welsh'. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Terry McDonald Date: 14 Aug 09 - 01:57 PM Fish. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 14 Aug 09 - 01:56 PM Is it like that chap who owned an Island..? |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,Ray Date: 14 Aug 09 - 01:34 PM I think it should be pronounced however she wishes it to be. Funny language of ours this is. How would you pronounce - GHOTI ? |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Dave Roberts Date: 14 Aug 09 - 09:42 AM I'm with McG of H. I do not see the point of this discussion. I know two ladies called Gillian, and they both pronounce it 'Jillian'. I work on the assumption that people know how to pronounce their own names. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST,Ebor_fiddler Date: 13 Aug 09 - 06:35 PM I think we have two names here, though spelt the same. The "Hard G", comes as suggested from Scottish Highland origin; the "Soft G" originates from the name "Giles", or in French "Gille". Both pronunciations are linguisticall correct and may refer to people of either sex, or none! Love and Fishes, Chris |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:58 PM J is always soft, but G can be either hard or soft. So saying things like "Is it pronunced as Gillian or Jillian?" makes no sense whatsoever. "Gillian" (with a soft G) is the more common spelling in the UK anyway. With "Jill" as the abbreviation. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:55 PM I just heard David Rawlings on a aud recording call her Gill so I am thinking definitely hard g because you'd think he would know. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: John MacKenzie Date: 02 Dec 05 - 10:20 AM Avoch = Och Anstruther = Ainster G. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Snuffy Date: 02 Dec 05 - 09:09 AM "Snosdle" should not be confused with "Snozzle", which is Snowshill, Gloucestershire (Glorse). |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: John MacKenzie Date: 02 Dec 05 - 09:00 AM Well Joe if you'd come to the Getaway like you should have, then you'd have known how to pronounce it........ Jock. Please do try to pay attention! Giok ☺ |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: GUEST Date: 02 Dec 05 - 08:56 AM In Cornwall there is Mousehole, pronounced Mowsle, which is near St Austell, pronounced Snosdle. |
Subject: RE: Help: Pronunciation of Gillian Welch's name From: Terry K Date: 02 Dec 05 - 08:12 AM I hate it when I hear golf commentators pronounce Retief Goosen with a hard G - it's just laziness on their part, not learning how to pronounce it properly. Bad manners too. One US commentator even referred to him as "the Goose" - which I remember as a childhood term of derision, as in "you silly goose". More forgiveable were the Indian cricket community who used to refer to Ian Botham as "Iron Bottom" - methinks with a little waspish humour. cheers, Terry |
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