BS: Death in the family - what to do?

Subject: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 11:43 PM

A few minutes ago, I received word that my sister's husband has died. My sister has asked me to come to her home, 600 miles away. She's basically alone there.

I've never been in this situation before. He died in a hospital, so I'm sure the hospital will inform the county of his death. I will help remove his clothes, et cetera, from the apartment if she's ready to do that.

Is there anything else I will probably have to do? They are not wealthy, but there may be insurance, et cetera. I would appreciate insights from anyone who's been through this.
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Do you smoke cigarettes? Please stop. He was only a kid, age 53. He'd still be with us if it weren't for cigarettes.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 12:01 AM

Leenia, I wish I could PM you; I've been there too many times. Yes, there is more. Hold her, hug her, comfort her, bug out when she needs you too, go to the bank, the grocery store,cook the meals, try to get her to eat, answer the phone, deal with the mail, etc..........(and my condolences to you, also)

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 12:04 AM

Hi leeneia, sorry to hear your sad news, the first thing to do is contact a funeral director/undertaker, there will be a list in the local phone book or the hospital might have a list available. Ask them how much it will be for the type of service you want, burial or cremation, as the prices vary, it is worth getting a few , ie at least 2 quotes.If he was a churchgoer, you will nedd to liase with his priest/vicar or rabbi whatever to arrange the service, you will need to inform friends and relatives etc of his death, so they can arrange to go to the funeral. Contact the insurance companys involved to claim any monies owed, to do this you will need copys of the death certificate, get a few copies, as you will need them for transferring bank accounts/ stocks & shares etc.Also contact his previous employers to see if his wife can claim any pension etc.
I am not sure of the situation in the US , but there might be a volounteer group at the hospital, the Red Cross, or similar, wich may be able to offer practical help/support if you need it.All the best, if you have any specific questions, then post here again, I am sure somebody here will be able to give you some good advice.take care.john

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 12:25 AM

Though it may be difficult, ask your sister if there is a will. We learned the hard way that making a will is a loving thing to do for one's family. If there isn't a will, have her get a copy of the death certificate, get the appropriate forms filled out (often you can find them in a kit prepared for your state--see a local bookstore) and take it all to the county probate court right away and be declared his administrator. The odd thing about probate is that in some places anyone who gets there first can get permission to be administrator, and can make an expensive mess in the process. If she has an attorney to do it who she trusts, good. But she can take care of all of it herself, or hire an attorney to assist.

The world swirls past at a time like this. Be there for hugs, for support, and to make sure that she eats something regularly. Good luck.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 12:29 AM

Does he have a will? I would ask a lawyer from your particular state or province what to do. Sorcha and John from Hull have very valid advice, but they may have missed some. If your sister doesn't have a lawyer, these people can give good advice for as little as $16.00/month. Prepaid legal I know I sound like an ad, but I spent an hour on the phone today with one of their lawyers, getting advice on immigration matters. I find their service to be very useful.

I hope this helps, my condolences to you and your sister.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 12:32 AM

Oh yes, there is always more. Took me over a year to finish with my mom's estate, and she had done everything she could to make it easier. A whole year when I didn't have time to actually grieve and be able to miss her because I had to worry about Legal Stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 12:42 AM

Sorcha--you're right about that. Over two years in the case of my father's estate, with no will.

One comes out of that experience having lost much of the time needed to remember the special things about the loved one. If there's an attorney ask up front what they'll charge, (you must speak of money when dealing with estates, no two ways about it) and decide if it's worth it to have them do the work. For many people, it is, but there are still matters to be attended to by your sister.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 01:09 AM

Sister must make the Decisons,or else later she will be angry and bitter that someone else did. Try to help her make the best ones.....it's not easy. Both mom and dad left explicit instructions which helped a lot. No arguing amongst the kids; we couldn't--it was right there in print. We all thought a year was fairly fast, considering. We have nothing to leave really, except debt, but we do have wills.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Helen
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 01:17 AM

I agree with the above, especially about helping out with the basics of life, and also with any notifying of official departments. We were lucky about finding the funeral director when my Mum died suddenly, 6 months ago - it seems like only a few weeks ago to me - because my sister and I went to school with someone who is now a funeral director. As it happened he and his assistant were wonderful.

Just helping to organise the funeral and other arrangements is a huge task, with a lot of decisions to make in a very short time, and a lot of friends and family to notify.

And being there is a comfort - to talk, to listen, or just to be silent together as needed.

My main suggestion, however, is to be prepared after a few weeks or months to deal with the aftermath of grief. My grief has recently kicked in properly, now that the main tasks are out of the way, which kept me busy and not able to think too much. People were very helpful and supportive at the time but now I feel as if they would think I was malingering if I talked about how I feel, when in fact I was in a bit of a haze before this and it didn't really sink in to me properly, until now, about the true meaning of our loss.

So, I would suggest that you keep a watch on how your sister is feeling for at least a few months and be prepared to listen and talk to her when she is ready for that stage.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 01:22 AM

She'll need your support and your level head; she will be overwhelmed with loss while trying to make things go right.

Gathering papers relating to insurance, will, assets, accounts and real estate -- whatever there is of it all -- is important for the sake of bringing some order to the next few weeks.

Determining who is the executor of the will (I assume there is one) is vital. Getting that executor the papers they need is vital to getting the whole estate process underway.

Sorting out where the money for the funeral comes from, finding address lists and the sort, are all things she can do while she works her way through it.

Anything you can do to help her with logistics and mechanics of the change will be valuable to her. Plus lots of comfort, hugs and if possible, get her out looking around a bit after the worst has worn off.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 01:40 AM

When my father was diagnosed as having an inoperable cancer, and only months to live, I went 120 miles to be with my mother. Because she herself is disabled (and 70 on Saturday 19th), and we didn't know what was going to happen, I spent 3 days arranging everything - I arranged my father's funeral before he had even died. I put it all in place so that all she had to do was phone 3 numbers, the funeral service and the vicar with a funeral date, and the solicitor. It's the sort of thing my mother had to do when my brother died (his 46th birthday today, 16th), but she has degenerated considerably since then and isn't capable of doing that under stress again.

I found it helps me to be practical and go to pieces afterwards when I'm with people I trust not to fall apart with me. Mother found it helped her because having dealt with the death of her son, she couldn't do it again for her husband. She had time to sit and do the grieving widow bit (although truth be told, she took great delight in going through the things he'd forbidden her to look at all their married life, and bringing out things he'd hidden away because he didn't like them). Is your sister a practical person or a panicky person? If she's the practical sort, then she will probably feel better doing the practical stuff, but if you are there as a support, then all the better. If she is the panicky sort, then having a supporter who is maybe not so closely involved would be a blessing. Of course if you are both the panicky sorts or both the practical sorts, all manner of things could happen!

She has asked you to come, I would assume this means you have a good relationship? Use this as a chance to strengthen and bond that relationship. If you can rely on each other in a crisis, then you have one of the best friendships in the world.

Take care of yourself as well, and take time to grieve yourself. Brothers in law are a strange sort of relation.... either you hate them passionately, or love them dearly. There doesn't seem to be a halfway stage better than tolerance. All the same, what ever he was to you, he has been a part of your life, and of your sisters' life, as she is a part of yours. Make sure you do your own grieving. Don't think you must "be brave for her sake", because burying your own could become a habit, which only leads to resentment and expensive therapy.

Remember the happy times and keep telling yourself and your sister that IT IS OK TO LAUGH! Don't feel guilty about small pleasures, it's the biggest problem of all. You spent time in joy with this person, let them leave they way they lived.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 01:54 AM

Mudcatters take heed. There is a lesson to be learned from the above postings.

Having lost both of our mothers within a year, with one of them leaving quite a mess, we resolved not to do this to anyone else.

We have compiled a book (and a corresponding computer file) entitled "When We Die". It contains (we hope) everything either of us will need to know when the other dies and our children will need to know when we both die.

Contents include a list of our assets and how they are transferred on death, a list of important documents and where they are, our attorney, accountant, doctor, etc., the location of our phone book, a list of credit cards, a list of our phone numbers (we have three), the location of our safe deposit box, its key and its contents, a lists of our bank accounts, bonds and stocks, a list of our insurance policies, retirement income, and information about our income tax and where old returns can be found.

Finally, it includes some directives stating who we would like notified, how we want our bodies handled and what kind of memorial service we would like, durable powers of attorney, durable powers of attorny for health care, and copies of our wills.

This took a fair amount of work to compile but it was a lot less than someone else would have to do. It takes a lot of discipline to keep it up to date but, on the other hand, it has become a useful reference tool while we're still alive.

Please do this for the sake of your loved ones. It will help clean up the mess you leave behind and make your passing much easier to deal with.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 02:55 AM

Good thnking Bev and Jerry, but there are drawbacks.

Firstly, if you are burgled, then your thief knows everything about you in one convenient book!

Secondly, the clearing process and dicussion over what the deceased 'would have wanted' is often a good way of sharing grief and expressing the sadness and joy of that person's life. Taking away the only practical thing those left can do, might not be such a good thing.

I've been on both sides. My brother was killed in 1974 and although I was only 9, I did understand and I did know what was going on. My sister and I were sent away and only came back a week after the funeral, which had been delayed for an inquest anyway. When we got back, my brothers' stuff was practically all gone and my mother had changed forever. We didn't get a chance to grieve or say goodbye or take the memento that reminded us most of him. That cost us both dearly in therapy and anger management. To this day all I have is one small passport sized photo of him taken a month before his death, and the radio he had with him when he died.

Having had to be the practical one when my father died, I found I could cope a lot better whilst doing something. If I'd had time to sit around and mope like one aunt did when their mother died (she left it all to one sister, but catalogued the furniture for her own daughters before my grandmother was even cold in her bed), then I would not have coped as I did.

Leaving a sensible will and a funeral plan, and possibly a 'living will' is a good idea. Detailing down to the last teaspoon and cufflink is robbing others of that process, which is an important part of grief. I'm sorry if I'm coming over as pompous, but it's something I feel very strongly about. If ever I were to consider counselling as a vocation, it would be in this field.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: smallpiper
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 06:03 AM

Don't forget to look after yourself as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 07:30 AM

All the above is good advice... first thing to remember is that your sister and you are in shock and will be for a while. Rely on trusted friends to look over your shoulder. When my father died, my wife, and I, who both graduated law school, my brother who has a phD. in theortical math, me mum, who had been an executive, made some of the most silly oversites in managing my dad's estate, as we were in shock.
I agree, that it is likely not a good idea to dispose of his clothes right away. Making gifts of them to friends is often a good way of keeping a wee bit of him about for a while, to sort of ease him on.
Holding you and your sister in the light,
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 07:52 AM

My brother died last year, and I'm still nowhere near getting it sorted out. He was on his own, which made some things more complicated, but other simpler.

The main thing here is looking after your sister. You don't mention if there's any other family, but you seem to give the impression you're on your own in this. You need to have someone you can trust to share the practical stuff of the funeral and so forth if at all possible. I was very glad with my brother that since he died back in a rural community in Ireland there was a well-established pattern of dealing with all this, whiuch made it a lot easier.

For other business affairs, encourage your sister not to rush things, because as InOBU said, it's easy to make mistakes that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 08:09 AM

Make sure a lawyer is not the executor.

Write the obituary yourself and send it to the newspapers that need to have it. The funeral home can do this for you, but it will be a lot more accurate and meaningful if someone closed to the deceased writes it. There are free, online guides.

Your sister shouldn't make any major life decisions until the shock has worn off and life has gotten somewhat back to "normal." Be there for her, to help with all the paperwork for insurance, preparing for the funeral, etc. etc., but give her time when she needs it for private grieving. And remember, everyone deals with grief in their own way and on their own time schedule.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 12:01 PM

You are all being so helpful. I appreciate it very much. I'm going to print all this out and refer to it again and again.

I posted my question late last night after talking to my tearful sister, who was on the phone at the hospital. She called this morning and said that two nurses and a chaplain had been adamant with her, repeatedly saying she must not be alone. So she called me in their hearing and asked me to come simply to get them to shut up and leave her alone!

She says that she has been preparing for this for a long time and has a list of "cut and dried" things to do today. Tomorrow, she wants to go back to work. Her job is easy and her co-workers are nice, and she thinks that the routine will keep her mind off her troubles. I would have been more impressed with this logic if her voice had not been full of tears, but we are all criers in the family, so perhaps it's all right. So I told her to treat today as an experiment, and if it goes okay, then I won't come.

The pawn, all my life I've been someone's pawn. (Just kidding.)

In a month I will go out and help clear out his things. In the meantime, I'll call her often to make sure she is okay. Everybody's right about the need to give support and to listen later, when the whirl of activities is over. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 01:25 PM

Having been prepared, your sister will have started the greiving process even while her husband was dying, but there is still that sense of numbness when it happens, a kind of shock when you go through the motions of practical life, the blow finally fallen. When you lose a loved one that close you never get over it. You will miss them the rest of your life, but the first years are hard. She will need you to be available and to listen and comfort, even if it is a phone call at midnight.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: Deda
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 02:04 PM

Ask her what she needs, and do that, if it's possible. If you judge that she's not able to make any good decisions right now (in my own case, going right back to work would not work), then go and be next to her and ask again what she needs -- but then you'll be able to add your own eye-witness judgment, as well as your human intuition.

Good luck with it all. It's a tough transition.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 02:23 PM

If she's on the net, email is another way of keeping close and frequent contact, in a way that sometimes might be less stressful than phoning. People can write an email in the small hours when they can't sleep and they want to say things, and feel they can't phone, and so forth.

Going back to work soon might be a good idea. Colleagues can sometimes be very helpful.

The whole business burial or cremation and so forth can have the side effect of keeping the bereaved person pretty busy at a time when that's actually what they need.

Can't give advice, of course, but whatever she says about not needing you to come at this time you might perhaps decide not to take it at face value. Six hundred miles is a long way, but your first message said she wanted you to come if you could.

Subject: RE: BS: Death in the family - what to do?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 02:32 PM

Up above, someone said 'Don't be afraid to laugh.' It is a sign of health to know you are returning to a normal perspective and can relax a bit.

In addition, don't be embarassed to ask for a shoulder for yourself. Consider that, even though you are 600 miles away, your sister called you. Even with whatever distance that implies, there is still a relationship there.

Hang in there.