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Chord Req: Chord formation help

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GUEST,Tim Mason 09 Oct 03 - 03:49 PM
Frug 09 Oct 03 - 04:34 PM
Frug 09 Oct 03 - 04:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Oct 03 - 08:19 PM
GUEST,Tim Mason 11 Oct 03 - 05:15 AM
Mark Clark 11 Oct 03 - 08:35 AM
Amos 11 Oct 03 - 08:48 AM
M.Ted 11 Oct 03 - 10:15 AM
GUEST,tim mason 11 Oct 03 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,pdq 12 Oct 03 - 03:27 PM
Gary T 13 Oct 03 - 01:36 AM
Cluin 13 Oct 03 - 04:20 PM
Cluin 13 Oct 03 - 04:24 PM
Mark Clark 13 Oct 03 - 05:49 PM
M.Ted 13 Oct 03 - 08:46 PM
M.Ted 13 Oct 03 - 10:27 PM
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Subject: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: GUEST,Tim Mason
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 03:49 PM

Sorry to disturb you all,but I am trying to figure out how to form the following chords so that I may play some Harry Chapin songs. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance
   Tim

-G7sus4

-A5 - B5 - C5 - D5 - E5 - F5 G5

-Gsus - Gadd9 -

-E/B, G#7/B#   

-F#/C#

-D/A - G/D, A/E, Em7sus4   

-GaddE, CaddG   

-C/D - D7sus2 E7/C

As I say any help is greatfully appreciated so if anyone knows and of the chords above, I'd be eternally grateful for help. Sorry for the length of the list.
Thanks again, Tim


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: Frug
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 04:34 PM

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com

try here

Frank


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: Frug
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 04:36 PM

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 08:19 PM

Here


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Subject: Chord Help
From: GUEST,Tim Mason
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 05:15 AM

Thanks to everyone who directed me to the all guitar chord sight, unfortunately, even there I was unable to figure out the following chords. Anyone here perchance know them, or know enough theory to help me out? Thanks again,
Tim Mason

Em7sus4, GaddE, CaddG, C/D, D7sus2, E7/C, A7addB, AaddG DaddE


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 08:35 AM

Try The Online Guitar Chord Dictionary at the University of Virginia.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: Amos
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 08:48 AM

Em7sus4 == 022200.


A


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 10:15 AM

The problem is not necessarily going to clear up when people post some possible fingerings for the chord names, because there are a lot of different fingerings that could be given the same name---

A lot of times, in guitar arrangements, the player starts in a particular chord position and creates a moving bass line or melody line by changing the it one finger at a time--it is important to know what song you are playing, in order to tell you which fingerings to use--

Also, if you have sheet music, in many cases, what you have is a piano arrangement that someone wrote for the melody, with guitar chords that follow the piano arrangment--so it may not even be in the same key as the recording--

If you tell me what song(or songs) you are working on--I will try to work out the fingerings so you can actually play the tune--it may take me a little time, because I'll have to dig out the records. I am not like a lot of these otherwise fine people who think that all you need is a link to a guitar site--


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: GUEST,tim mason
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 04:08 PM

All by Harry Chapin

-Gsus - Gadd9 - from i wanna learn a love song (verities and balderdash)

-D/A - G/D, A/E, Em7sus4 from babysitter (portrait gallery)
-GaddE, CaddG from the parades still passing by (on the road to kingdom come)
-C/D - D7sus2 E7/C from Roll down the river(on the road to kingdom come)
-A7addB - Asus2 - AaddG from Why should people stay the same(danceband on the titanic)
-DaddE from My old lady (danceband on the titanic)
-Gsus2- Asus2 from You own the only light (last of the protest singers)


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 03:27 PM

Thanks Frug, great web site!


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: Gary T
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 01:36 AM

I not an expert on this, but I think I understand most of these chords. My thought is if you know the definition of the chord, you can figure out what notes are in it, and then figure out how to play it.

If I mess something up here, please correct me (and please accept my apologies).

See if this helps, Tim:

The notes in the major scale of a given key can be numbered (always use Arabic numerals for this, not Roman numerals). For example, in the key of C, it would be as follows: C = 1, D = 2, E = 3, etc. through B = 7, and then on to C = 8, D = 9, E = 10 etc. You've got to know or learn the scales for each key to make sense of the following.

A major chord uses just the name of the key -- example G -- and uses notes 1, 3, & 5. A G chord thus has the notes G, B, & D. If you look at the notes you play to make a G chord, you'll see that each one is a G, a B, or a D note.

A minor chord uses notes 1, 3b (flatted third note of the scale), & 5. Thus while a D chord has the notes D, F#, & A, a Dm chord has the notes D, F, & A. Look at the notes you play to make a D chord compared to the notes you play to make a Dm chord -- the difference is that anywhere F# appears in the D chord, there is instead F in the Dm chord. The other notes of the chords (D & A) remain unchanged.

A seventh chord -- example C7 -- has notes 1, 3, 5, & 7b. So a C7 has C, E, G, & Bb. A Cm7 has C, Eb, G, & Bb. It is understood that the 7 in the chord name refers to what's called the dominant seventh tone, which is the FLATTED seventh note of the scale. If you want the actual (unflatted) seventh note, it is called a major seventh. A Cmaj7 chord has 1, 3, 5, & 7, or C, E, G, & B.

So let's look at these chords.

-G7sus4 -- A suspended 4th chord uses a 4 note instead of a 3 note. So while a G chord would have G, B, & D (1, 3, & 5), a Gsus4 would have G, C, & D (1, 4, & 5). G7sus4 has G, C, D, & F (1, 4, 5, & 7b).


-A5 - B5 - C5 - D5 - E5 - F5 G5 -- These would have notes 1 & 5. Thus A5 would have A & E, C5 would have C & G, etc. Not technically a chord by some (most? all?) definitions, where a chord must have at least three different notes.

-Gsus -- The same thing as Gsus4. The "4" is added to the chord name sometimes to eliminate possible confusion with "sus2," but "sus" is understood to mean a suspended 4th chord.

-Gadd9 -- A G chord (1, 3, & 5) with a 9 added, thus 1, 3, 5, & 9 (G, B, D, A). The reason the added A is called a 9 instead of a 2, which is also A, is that the desired A is meant to be a higher pitch than the other notes (if possible).

-E/B, G#7/B#, F#/C#, D/A, G/D, A/E -- The first letter is the name of the chord, the second letter is the name of the desired bass note. So E/B is an E chord with a B as its lowest note (on the guitar, you would make a normal E chord, but not play the bass E (top, 6th) string, letting the 5th string (the A string fretted to a B note) be the lowest tone in the chord.

-Em7sus4 -- Presumably an Em7 (1, 3b, 5, 7b or E, G, B, D) with a 4 note (A) added. Kind of cheating, as a sus chord is supposed to have a 4 note (or in the case of a sus2 chord --covered below -- a 2 note) INSTEAD of a 3 or 3b note, not in addition to either one.

-GaddE, CaddG -- Here I'm not certain. I don't know if the added note is expected to be on a treble string, bass string, or what.

-C/D, E7/C -- Covered above -- C chord with a D bass note, E7 chord with a C bass note.

-D7sus2 -- A suspended 2nd chord uses a 2 note instead of a 3 note. So while a D7 would have D, F#, A, & C (1, 3, 5, 7b), a D7sus2 would have D, E, A, & C (1, 2, 5, & 7b).

The value in understanding the above is that with that info, you can figure out what notes to play. Sometimes it's pretty easy to figure out how to make the desired chord, sometimes it's a royal pain in the patoot (chord dictionaries can be very helpful).

An example of an easy one is the D7sus2. You start with your normal D7 chord, and see what you have to do to replace every F# note with an E note. In the common D7, the only F# is on the treble E (first, bottom) string. The way to change it to an E is to take your finger off it and play the string open. Piece of cake.

The Gsus ( = Gsus4) is just a little trickier. It's pretty easy to find G, C, & D notes on the first four strings, but tough to also play them on the 5th & 6th strings. The simplest way to make the chord is to use only the bottom four strings.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 04:20 PM

Well, just for the sake of pedantry, Tim.... the chord name Em7sus4 doesn't make sense. The "sus4" means that the 3rd is replaced totally by the suspended 4th note, so that considering the third, whether flatted or not, is a non-sequitor. The real name for the chord would be Esus4, containing the notes E, A and B. And Amos gave you the correct fingering for that one above.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 04:24 PM

Whoops, I guess the Em7sus4 wants a D note as well (the minor 7th note), in which case the fingering would be 022230, but that still seems a strange chord name.... maybe should be Esus4addD?...


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: Mark Clark
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 05:49 PM

I was a little dissapointed in M.Ted's response to the chord links. Not to say that M.Ted isn't a pretty fart smeller, he is correct as usual. Of course the position/fingering/inversion selected for a chord depends on the melodic line moving through it. But that determination is part of the art of musical accompaniment, the explanation of which goes way beyond the question without really answering it.

Tim doesn't say where he got the chord charts for the Chapin tunes but, as pointed out, it's common for music publishers to either be wrong about the intended chord or to misinterpret the nature of the music being documented.

Cluin is correct that Amos fingering should have been 022230 or perhaps more properly 02223x. And one wouldn't expect to see either a third or a flatted third in a suspended chord.

Gadd9 might be used to describe the spelling G,B,D,A as Gary noted but it might also just be a G9 (G,B,D,F,A) chord played without the dominant 7th. On guitar it's common to play inverted and partial chords but regard them as complete for the purposes of a lead sheet. It's only the computer/transcriber who, not hearing the F, tries to come up with a name that describes only the notes heard.

A7addB is just the standard spelling for an A9 chord (A,C#,E,G,B).

I imagine a notation like CaddG is just a first position C chord with another G added on the first string using the little finger. This is so common among guitarists that no mention of the G would normally be made except to show it as a melody or harmony note in the score.

The common progressions for many of Chapin's songs are available on the net. Try a Google search for “harry-chapin tab and visit the more promising links. You should come up with better chords for most of the tunes you're trying to play.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 08:46 PM

I have a couple of those tunes on tape --The Parade is Still Passing By , which I meant to learn because it is a Phil Ochs tribute, and I wanna learn a love song, which someone wanted to learn once a long time ago--I am looking around for the others--

TPSB has pretty simple chords, the C added G would likely be just a C with a G bass note--

My take on IWLALS is that it starts on a G chord, fingered 3-X-O-O-3-O, that little opening lick bounces up and down between the open E on the high E string and the D on the third fret of the B string--then it goes to an open C(3-3-2-1-0) if you move from that chord to 3-X-0-0-1-0, it is a pretty good Gsus--I would try staying in that same position and playing 3-X-0-2-0-X where the G added A is called for and seeing if it works--


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chord formation help
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 10:27 PM

Sorry to disappoint, Mark--I've been sick--

Anymore, I just ignore the chord names and TAB, and all and just listen to the stuff and try to figure out a way to recreate what is going on. A lot of the stuff Harry Chapin did is a lot more simple to pick out than it is to work out from chord symbols--

Anyway, if it is music pedantry you want, I will throw you thisthought--a suspension is not a chord, it is a horizontal harmonic effect in which additional note or notes are suspended over a chord in passing--so the name of a suspension really depends on which chord was sounding before (or after) the fourth sounds(or whatever other note is being used)--if this effect doesn't happen(and you've heard it a billion times, think of the Beginning of "Eve of Destruction") then the chord should really be called an 11th--


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