Beginner guitar - G chord fingering

Subject: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Terry K
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:34 AM

This is probably an old chestnut but I'll ask anyway.

While I was showing off my recently acquired G chord, my smartarse nephew said "Aha, I see they've taught you the wrong fingering". He then showed me his method which is to use the little finger on the first string, leaving the index finger free. It certainly seems logical as the index finger is then in perfect position for C, F and G7 whilst the other two fingers merely move across the second and third frets without having to change pattern - much greater economy of movement and it does feel quite natural.

My concern is that if this was a "better" way, the world of guitarists would have adopted it as standard, so before I start to unlearn the more conventional fingering, does anybody have a view of whether this may lead to problems?

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From:
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:43 AM

I think a lot of guitarists do consider your nephew's their "standard" way to finger a "G" chord. Stefan Grossman certainly tells you to do it that way. I always use it unless there are special demands. For example if I have to alternate between the "g" on the "e" string and the "d" on the "b" string, then I use what you call the "standard" fingering with my ring finger to handle the "d" and my pinky to handle the "g". As soon as I get through such a passage, I switch back to your nephew's fingering.

Murray

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: GUEST,Simon in Hampshire, England
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:46 AM

Can't help I'm afraid, but do agree.... I learned the 'normal' fingering as shown in no end of chord boxes, and trying to do the more obvious one using the little finger is a bugger to get used to. But it's far better I guess to keep the index finger unused, as practice for doing barre chords. I've been trying to get used to doing A, C, D and E that way. But what do the seasoned real players do? ;-)

Simon

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Mooh
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 07:46 AM

I instruct people that there is not a right or wrong way, just an appropriate way within the context of the song or tune. Sometimes we need the first (index) finger to fret a note behind the other fingers, like C at the first fret second string to make a Gsus4 chord, and other times we need a finger to fret the D at the third fret second string in the middle of the chord, and yet other times we need the pinky to fret an A at the fifth fret first string for a G9...etc...

Moving from chord to chord is another determining factor. Often moving from open C to open G requires one fingering, while moving from barred chords to open G (and back) requires another.

Particularly among fingerpickers, who are less concerned with playing every note of the chord than a strummer, and may be playing melodic runs throughout their chord changes, fingering should be determined by the requirements of the song. With the example of G given here,we don't always want to hear the third (B) as high as the second string and would rather have a D there, leaving the third interval on the fifth string (second fret B).

Consider the context before you settle on a fingering.

Clear as Mud, Cat?

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 08:29 AM

I agree with Mooh that the needs of the song should dictate the fingering. But for folks who are just starting out on guitar, I recommend that you get accustomed to your nephew's fingering (using fingers 2, 3 and 4, with index finger free). I recall having difficulty with it when I was first starting (32 years ago, as a 10-year-old with small hands), but with practice it became second-nature. If you don't practice it, you'll never develop the facility in your pinkie. You'll always be able to do your alternate fingering (using fingers 1, 2, 3).

For lots of folk and blues music, it's nice to be able to alternate smoothly between the G chord and the C chord, which your nephew's fingering facilitates. You'll hear this alternating G/C thing in lots of songs -- one good example is Dylan's "It Takes A Lot To Laugh, It Takes A Train To Cry" on the Highway 61 Revisited album.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Bernard
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 08:35 AM

I've always played (and taught) the 'free index' fingering, particularly as it helps the beginner to learn to separate the fingers, and strengthens the little finger.

It isn't the most natural way to finger it, although it is logically the best - except in some circumstances.

Beginners need to be given 'hard and fast' rules to stick to - they can always experiment for themselves when reasonably proficient. It's good discipline, and weeds out the ones who haven't really got their heart in it...

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 08:40 AM

Just do yourself a favor and learn now the 2-3-4 fingering and you won't spend the next thirty-five years doing the "finger gymnastics" required if you use the 1-2-3. Unless you're an exceptional wizard, its hard to relearn things you've been doing for years.

Mooh has great advice above though, as there are applications for both.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 08:43 AM

And what of the G bar (F two frets up)? Always worth keeping in mind. I actually found it a good way to learn bar chords, rather than getting stuck in that dreadful F fingering, down which many a novice has sunk without trace.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: harpgirl
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 08:57 AM

...I'd like to know all the ways to make a G chord...I thought when you put your finger on the first fret on the high treble string, it was a G7th?
I was down in John D. McArthur State Park in (infamous) PB county last weekend playing bluegrass autoharp with the local pickers in the nature center ampitheatre, and I saw all kinds of new chords!
Anyone who wants to enjoy Florida should walk the long bridge walk to the beach over the mangrove estuaries and watch the magnificent Florida birds! That is real peace...hg

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Grab
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 09:00 AM

Terry, it's usually better using that other fingering. But beginners generally have weak little fingers (that's a weak 4th finger, not fingers which are all little and weak.. :), so your original fingering might be useful in that case. And your original fingering can also be used for an alternative G chord which goes 320033, using 2nd finger on bottom E, 1st finger on A, 3rd finger on B and little finger on top E - try it and see what it sounds like.

Grab.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 09:08 AM

The 320033 is the G chord I always play. I used to play it just 320003, but once I found the alternate, I never looked back. It always transitions well with a Cadd9 chord X32033. The G-Cadd9 chord progression pretty much fines me as a guitar player. It's my favorite chord progression even, and has so many possibilities for variation and bass runs and all kinds of good stuff. If there's a G followed by a C in a song, I will automatically make it G-Cadd9 so I can pull of fun little things in-between. As in the UK they'd say, the "twiddly bits".

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 09:30 AM

All good options, which reinforces what Mooh said. But I still think, as others have noted, that you do yourself no favors by avoiding the "nephew fingering" (with pinkie on the high E-string, third fret). Learn to do it quickly without thinking too much, and then you have it in your bag of tricks when you want it. I agree with Matt_R about the 320033 version being nice (as well as the Cadd9 played in conjunction with it), but I would never adopt one version of a chord to the exclusion of all others. Better to have a range of options available.

Harpgirl, you're right about the G7.

Peter, I don't understand your posting. The barred-G chord is just an F chord two frets up, so why do you feel it's so much easier for a beginner to master?

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 10:13 AM

I can't think of any situation in which the 1-2-3 fingering would be preferable. Definitely, use the nephew's 2-3-4 fingering. Grab has a point about the weak little finger. I suspect the beginner's books reference the 1-2-3 fingering because they think it's simpler for the beginner to learn; never mind that it's not really useful.

As far as learing all possible G chords goes, every moveable chord shape becomes some variant of a G chord at some position on the fingerboard. Learn all the chord shapes you can and play around with them as you learn your way around the fingerboard.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: GUEST,Midchuck upstairs
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 11:02 AM

I'm on Matt R's side for once. I like the "droney" sound of the "Tony Rice G."

You can also go to a G7 with the F in the bass, as a transition to C or whatever, by just moving the ring finger from second string, third fret, to fourth string, third fret.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 11:17 AM

Go with the nephew, since most songs you will be playing that use a "G" chord will also use a "C" chord and the transition between those two chords is MUCH easier when you are playing the pinky version of G.

I too was first taught the index-finger version, but was "corrected" by my cousin, who showed me the pinky way. I immediately learned his version (which is odd, in retrospect, since we so seldom agreed on anything) and haven't looked back.

Which in a way is bad, because now it takes me a long time to get my fingers into the other chord, and as some people have already said here, there are times when the index-finger version would make for smoother transitions.

So retain the ability to do it the other way. But I would guess that about 90% of the time, at least on beginner and intermediate level songs, you will be using your nephew's version more.

Alex

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Mooh
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 11:28 AM

Which brings me to one of the great enlightenments of music. Chords have several relatively easy fingerings on fretted instruments. This is because the notes from a chord can be played in any order (usually referred to as inversions) and there are several places on a fretboard where each note can be found, identical notes and octaves.

Just for example, try these other G fingerings. xx5003, 10/10/12/12/12/10, x/10/9/0/8/10, 15/14/0/0/15/15, x/x/12/12/15/15...there are others...So long as there are a G, B, and D in the chord, you've got a G major chord. Duplicating the notes in the same or other octaves just makes it sound fuller.

I suggest that a fretboard map with all the notes named on it will help identify the notes of chords (assuming the presence of a chord chart too) and finding the notes elsewhere on the fretboard will yield alternative chord shapes.

As for fingerings, use what's most comfortable and follow the dictates of its applicatiion. God, I love this stuff.

Clear as Mud, Cats?

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: GUEST,marty D
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:11 PM

Well I thank my lucky stars that those helpful Mudcat guitar gurus (you know who you are) got me to start using the 'pinky' G, after 20 years of the 'index' one. It's made my chord changing a lot smoother. Most importantly it's allowed me to play my favourite Tom Paxton lick whenever I want.

Martin

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: BobP
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:33 PM

I'm sure this has been be covered in numerous threads, but I thought it worth a brief side-query under the "G" chord banner.

For those who perform in public,

When you invite group participation, do you experiment the different keys to see which gets the best response?

I had this nutsy notion, that when Lennon-McCartney music hit the stores, just after gazillions of amateurs took up guitar, that much of their bag, at least the Lennon stuff was in "G", as opposed to more common keys because they actually wanted unskilled voices to go out and spread their tunes like a Johnny Appleseed (apple label? I told you it was nutsy).

Years ago, before the beatles actually, a blues guy told me that; "G" was the "peoples chord" for public singing, that "E" was the traditional blues chord and that "C" was the traditional gospel chord. He said he personally never played in "G" because he disliked having people join in.

I always wondered if Lennon came into contact with the same kind of notion, but then turned it to his advantage.

Whatever; it didn't catch on. When I'm invited to join in at folk events, it's invariably in "C".

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:14 PM

I don't know whether there's any truth to this or not, but I think it's doubtful that the Beatles had anything to do with it -- they didn't tend to be involved in the sheet music versions of their stuff.

I'm one of those who doesn't really enjoy the whole "singalong" thing, either as a performer or as an audience member. But I tend to think it's more likely that G is "the people's chord" because it's easy to play, not because it's easy to sing. I'm not sure there's a universal easy-to-sing key.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:58 PM

Beatles stuff has zero to do with the sheet music. There is a recent, expensive, transcription of all the Beatles' songs, and it is quite amazing. You finally figure out how they did all their fingerings, and so on. The sheet music is pathetic. I suffered through it for years. It should be burned by the public hangman.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 07:01 PM

Ignore MOST sheet music when it comes to what guitar players are doing. The folks who write it up are most often keyboardists, and as Peter can attest, sometimes it's Hellishly difficult for another GUITARIST to figure the stuff out.

Rick

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 11:52 PM

Right on! The guitar plays from a lead sheet: a single staff melody line with chord names (not diagrams} written above.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Terry K
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 03:13 AM

So it's the 2-3-4 then! I'm so glad I asked because I'm always sceptical about when somebody says do it different from the way the books tell you.

But it's a relief that so many of you real players give a generally similar response - I can now practice with greater commitment instead of feeling I am doing something wrong!

At present, it feels a little awkward only in that my pinky is a bit late getting down but even I have learnt that I can cheat by playing (approximately) five strings for the first strum. And I know it will become easier if I practice.......

Thanks for all the help.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Bedubya
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 01:17 PM

Regardless of how you ultimately decide to play your G chord there is one hard and fast rule:

Never play the 1-2-3 fingering during photography sessions! The photos always come out looking like you're giving someone the finger!

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Bedubya
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 01:19 PM

Regardless of how you ultimately decide to play your G chord there is one hard and fast rule:

Never play the 1-2-3 fingering during photography sessions! The photos always come out looking like you're giving someone the finger!

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 01:19 PM

I'm with Midchuck and Matt on the four-fingered G. I learned that way, and anything else sounds less full. I have been concentrating on the e-form barres (the bar F previously mentioned) and find it is the key to many chord progressions, Dylan's Like a Rolling Stone for example. Unfortunately, my barres still sound muffled compared to the open forms.

Re: the B chord. To me the only good B is the e form B slid up the neck. The A form barre B always sounds muted.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Bedubya
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 01:22 PM

Sorry about the double-post. I'm having hellacious server problems today. Lucky to be on-line at all I guess.

bwl

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 01:26 PM

I also play EJ's, Matt's, Midchuck's, and the Indigo Girl's 4-finger G. I just play it three fingered 2-3-4, or 1-2-4 (if need be) or Th-2 or 3.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: GUEST,Mike L.
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 01:28 PM

I don't see any problem with fingering the chord the way you describe. I, too, learned to play the G with my pinkie hanging there doing nothing. I think the chord is pictured that way in most beginner's manuals because it's a little easier to do. But in the long run, I think good instructors ought to teach it the way you describe, with the index finger free to do so much. I couldn't play half the things I play if I had to play the chord the old way.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 02:07 PM

On the subject of The Beatles sheet music - one real confusion is that many of the transcriptions aren't even in the same key as the original recording!!

I've had pupils in the past who've struggled for ages to figure out what was wrong!

My 'Golden Rule for Guitarists'?

Never lift a finger unless you have to!!

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 09:23 AM

Not only aren't the versions in the books in the right key, but they miss the "sound" that everyone is looking for, even the novice. One nice thing about taking lessons from a pro is that you get to hear the real sound -- Oh that is how they did that! -- and it unlocks your desire to do the same thing, however remote the chance. The music books versions just give you a dead version of the song: they stop you dead. I appreciate that it costs more to do the right version, but couldn't they at least have a note at the bottom saying: the original is in... I see that Joni Mitchell has finally rebelled against this, and is having her stuff re-done properly.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 06:23 PM

On that subject - if there's anything in a Beatles' song that anyone has difficulty working out, PM me and I'll let you in on the secret. I learned 'em all first time around - often the day they were released!!

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Justa Picker
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 06:47 PM

Speaking of the Beatles, "Blackbird" played in its mother key of G, is an excellent song to know and, to use to check the intonation of ones guitar or a guitar one is thinking of purchasing. (Hmmm, maybe this should be in the "Pickers - Give Us A Tip" thread.)

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:11 AM

We seem to have drifted off into a discussion about the Beatles' sheet music, which is fine, but I can't leave the original topic alone. The most important reason to learn the "nephew" fingering (pinkie on the high-E string) is to get used to using your pinkie. Taking short cuts to avoid using the pinkie is a bad idea, because then you'll never develop the facility to use it in any of your playing. I'm all in favor of learning and using multiple versions of common chords, but make sure you're doing it for the right reason. We're only given ten fingers, and only half that number on the neck -- it would be a shame to eliminate one right off the bat just because you don't want to spend the time to learn how to use it.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Mark Clark
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:27 AM

WS,

"...and only half that number on the neck..."

That's true unless you're Stanley Jordan using the 10 finger tapping technique. He keeps all 10 fingers on the neck of the guitar.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Grab
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 01:25 PM

Marty D, don't leave us in suspense! Which (of the many) Tom Paxton riffs is that? Is that the 320003->3x2013 one (also sounds good on "Slip-sliding away" to give it more drive than the original version, incidentally)? Personal faves of Tom's are the simple but beautiful E hammeron in Cindy's Crying, and the lovely drop-D riff in Out behind the Gypsy's. But that's thread creep... :-)

Grab.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Peter T.
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 01:48 PM

In case anyone is interested, this month's issue of Guitar World Acoustic has a special section on The Beatles' White Album, with lots of good discussion and tabs --including Justa Picker's Blackbird in G. -- Mother Nature's Son, Dear Prudence, I'm So Tired, Julia, I Will, etc.

Interesting note: The author calculates that "Blackbird" took 32 takes to get right; "Mother Nature's Son" took 25; "I Will" took 67 takes!!!Sure sounds easy.....

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:26 PM

I learned most of the Beatles' stuff by watching the release videos on 'Top of the Pops' - there's more than one way of fingering most things (oo-errr!), but the most reliable source is them wot duz it!!

One reason for all the takes is the evolutionary process - instead of rehearsing for ages, then doing a take, the tape was running during the 'rehearsing' so that no gems could slip through.

The 'Anthology' CD's provide a fascinating insight to their creative processes.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: GUEST,Rhythm Man
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 02:40 PM

Bernard,

About your comment on Mar 25, "On that subject - if there's anything in a Beatles' song that anyone has difficulty working out, PM me and I'll let you in on the secret. I learned 'em all first time around - often the day they were released!!" -- I would probably enjoy 'talking' to you. click here to send me a PM. Thanks,

Rhythm Man

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Justa Picker
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 02:48 PM

Speaking of Blackbird, if anyone's interested, here's the tab for it. Some of the voicings are a little simplified, compared to the way I learned it, but it appears pretty accurate.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Gary T
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 07:50 PM

Sorry I missed this thread last month, but I want to put in a good word for the conventional fingering (123). It provides a much smoother and quicker change to D7, and as mentioned before is often easier for beginners to learn. It wouldn't be in all those books if it were totally inferior or useless.

Personally, I use both fingerings depending upon what chord I'm coming from or going to. However, I do recall a friend relating that her guitar teacher (bluegrass oriented) wanted her to pick one fingering for each chord and stick with it. I gathered it was to facilitate rapid chord changes in fast songs by eliminating any mental pause over which form to use.

I found the C7 chord especially helpful in training my little finger to do stuff. I had to start out by forming a normal C chord and holding fingers 1, 2, & 3 firmly in place while using my other hand to plant the unwilling pinkie in its place. After a while, I was able to control the little finger.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Terry K
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 03:26 AM

Gary - wholeheartedly agree that it must be "right" otherwise wouldn't be in the books. Can't agree about the change to D7 though as the alternative leaves the index finger hovering over the C ready to act as the anchor for the change. Maybe it's just personal preference, but now that I'm using the alternative I find my left hand is generally in a much better position in that my thumb is pointing away from me, whereas previously it tended to point towards me. This seems to make a major improvement in all the other chords too.

On the C7 I find the pinkie falls OK but on checking the chord shape on Nut Chords they want me to add an A sharp on the 3rd string - which finger would I use for that, I ask, seeing as all four are already in use!

It's been really useful re-reading this because I note that Simon in Hampshire practices keeping his index finger free for other chords too (in his case for practicing barre chords - beyond my capacity at the present I'm afraid). But when I tried fingering A this way it occurred to me it may solve a slight problem I have in that my fingers are too big to play the A when I'm using a capo. So introducing the little finger at least lets me capo up to fret 3. Good stuff.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: Gary T
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 06:05 AM

Hey, Terry. I guess it comes down to personal preference on the D7 change. From the conventional fingering, I can slide #3 up a fret and bring #'s 1&2 , as a unit and keeping them in their same relative position, over to the 2nd and 3rd strings very smoothly and quickly. With the other fingering, yes #1 can readily be planted on the 2nd string, but #'s 2&3 have to "swap places" on their way over as well as spread out to different spacing. I find that more awkward.

Something you may want to try out is an alternative G7. Use the pinkie on the first string, 3rd fret, a la "nephew" form. Use fingers # 1&2 on the 5th & 6th strings, a la conventional form. Now put #3 on the 4th (D) string, 3rd fret, to add an F note. This puts the dominant 7th sound (F) in a lower register than the "normal" G7 chord. I find it preferable in some situations. See how you like it.

On the C7, it sounds like you're forming a 6-string C chord, with the pinkie and #3 on the 5th & 6th strings. Make a 5-string C, with #3 on the 5th string and not playing the 6th at all. Now the pinkie can readily add the dominant 7th note (more properly called Bb than A# in a C scale--same note either way) on the 3rd string.

Subject: RE: Beginner guitar - G chord fingering
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 04:27 PM

The open G fingering with the middle finger on fret 3, Low E string, comes out of the primary scale fingering pattern for scales starting on the Low E string.

Obviously, in most circumstances, it is the preferred position, or at least the starting place. The Guitar allows(maybe requires is a better word) you to play the same notes in a variety of fingerings and positions.The same is true of chord fingerings. If you are playing in the key of C, the fingering that uses the ring finger on the low G can be very useful. However, if you are playing "Carter Style" in the key of G, it will be very awkward.

There are three to five basic fingering positions for playing scales (two are considered to be variations by a lot of players) and you have to pick which works best for what you're trying to do--same goes with the chords.