BS: Bottom line on AWOL story

Subject: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: GUEST,Don Hakman
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 09:45 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushson.jpg

by Don Hakman

Bush's National Guard Company was euphamisticly known as the Champagne unit. The observance of the rules in these units were clearly different from other companies.

Under threat of political power coming to bear down on any commander's "poor judgement" regarding a Congressman's son, there are few examples of any commander risking their career over Champagne unit irregularities.

(dissemination of my picture across this nation might be a good idea.)

People should be reminded that W's father was a Congressman of Texas at that time in history.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Alice
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 09:49 AM

I saw a great documentary on PBS of this topic last spring or summer. It included the witness who saw Bush's National Guard records being destroyed when he was governor and the Bush "biographer" was coming over to the office to read them. The National Guard got a call to pull his file and destroy the evidence of how little time he actually showed up for duty and how much he just didn't bother to show up.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: GUEST,Don Hakman
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 09:54 AM

His Texas driving record was also destoyed.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 10:14 AM

Thank goodness he has changed completely as a person and a president.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 10:23 AM

Well, like it or not, no mater what yer opinion is, it looks very much like this little issue isn't going to go away. Bush will try his best to divert it with the usual " Do you wanta a bunch of tax and spend liberals in yer pocket?" publum but this song is startin' to look a tad threadbare these days...

It's tough keeping so many lies under the carpet but my hat is off to Bush's PR folks for doing a great job. (Thou I'm more than steamed that, especially at this time of year, that my tax dollars pay these PR folks to try to manipulate me!!! Makes me and the Wes Ginny Slide Rule mad!!! Like real mad!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!)

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Amos
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 10:40 AM

Peter:

Not.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 12:28 PM

Well, you can complain, but there is no evidence that during George W.'s military service Oklahoma or any other state invaded Texas. If this isn't the gritty defence of liberty, then what is?

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:04 PM

The "gritty" issue Dubya dealt with back then was the cocaine he snorted.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:17 PM

Yo, SRS, Bush has a liftime "pass" on that, his womanizin' and his drinkin' from the media and if a Sem brings any of tghis stuff up then the media is going to go "Oh, nasty, nasty. Bad Dems, bad!!!" and the sheep (electorate) will get righteously indignant that those mean spirited Dems would resort to such tactics...

It really doesn't hurt to have the media in yer pocket, as Bush obviously does. Speaking of the media, word on the street is that evryquestion that Tim Russert asked Bush on "Face the Nation" this morning was written by Carl Rove....

Oh, what a tangled web we weave....

Not to belabor this point, but by 1937 Hitler had the German media in his pocket also...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:21 PM

Was it primarily a matter of young Bush being a self centred little creep, or of his being a coward? Clearly it wasn't because he had any worries about it not being a just war.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:45 PM

Bush was on "Meet The Press" this morning, Dean was on "Face The Nation" I forced myself to watch Bush and I don't like Dean.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Amos
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:47 PM

"Dishonest Dubya" Lying Action Figure

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: GUEST,TongueTangledBriarBush
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 02:06 PM

I like the "Say Something Stupid" Button.

I know GI Joe and Mr. Bush is no GI Joe.

Thank you Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: GUEST,Don Hakman
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 08:42 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/meetpressW.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 09:12 PM

Here's another bottom line, from the Hindustani Times today - "Bushi" nappies. (I believe you call them diapers in the States):

A Beijing businessman has filed an application to trademark the Chinese name of US President George W. Bush to help market his disposable nappies, state media said Friday.

The applicant, surnamed Guo, filed an application with the General Administration for Industry and Commerce of China, stating he wants to use the two-character phrase "Bushi" as a trademark, the Beijing News reported.

"I hit upon the idea by chance," said Guo. "Back in my hometown in Henan province, the pronunciation of 'Bushi' sounds exactly like 'not wet'."

Government officials are not amused.

One official from the State Trademark Bureau, surnamed Liu, said the application would very likely be rejected "because it may bring about bad social impact if a leader's name is registered as a trademark".

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 12:26 PM

ARF

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 01:12 PM

Diapers, huh? Back during the Civil War, there were chamberpots with General Ben Butler's picture in the bottom. They're very collectible now, if you can find one.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 11:50 PM

I can confirm that Bu Shi does mean not wet.

BTW the shi is pronounced more like sher not as in bushy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Gareth
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 07:35 PM

Well - One Political rule I have always understood is :-

Never Complain.
Never Explain,
Don't get mad, get even

If GWB Jnr is now having to defend and excuse his behavoir and conduct I would say the salvoes are getting close to the target !

After all when you have to explain your conduct, and find excuse makers you draw more attention to the allegations. As Ron Davis (Welsh Joke) found out.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 09:55 AM

Finally, something I can respect Bush for. Going AWOL during the Viet Nam era was and is admirable.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 03:00 PM

Affirmative on that Art -

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Alice
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 01:21 PM

As I posted earlier, this topic of where Bush was when he was supposed to be serving in the National Guard was an in-depth subject covered by, I believe, Frontline.

Today I received this an email of this article that quotes a witness who verified Bush was a "no-show" when he was supposed to be drilling at an Alabama base.
--------


BUSH A NO-SHOW AT ALABAMA BASE, SAYS MEMPHIAN

FedEx Pilot Bob Mintz, backed up by a Carolina colleague, recalls no Dubya at
Dannelly AFB in 1972.

Jackson Baker | 2/12/2004

http://www.memphisflyer.com/content.asp?ID=5480&ArticleID=2

Print this Article
Copyright 2004 The Memphis Flyer MEMPHIS â€" Two members of the Air National
Guard unit that President George W. Bush allegedly served with as a young
Guard
flyer in 1972 had been told to expect him and were on the lookout for him. He
never showed, however; of that both Bob Mintz and Paul Bishop are certain.


The issue of Bush’s presence in 1972 at Dannelly Air National Guard base
in
Montgomery, Alabama â€" or the lack of it â€" has become an issue in the 2004
presidential campaign.


Recalls Memphian Mintz, now 63: “I remember that I heard someone was
coming
to drill with us from Texas. And it was implied that it was somebody with
political influence. I was a young bachelor then. I was looking for somebody
to
prowl around with.â€* But, says Mintz, that “somebodyâ€* -- better known to
the
world now as the president of the United States -- never showed up at
Dannelly in
1972. Nor in 1973, nor at any time that Mintz, a FedEx pilot now and an
Eastern Airlines pilot then, when he was a reserve first lieutenant at
Dannelly,
can remember.


“And I was looking for him,â€* repeated Mintz, who said that he assumed
that
Bush “changed his mind and went somewhere elseâ€* to do his substitute
drill. It
was not “somewhere else,â€* however, but the 187th Air National Guard
Tactical
squadron at Dannelly to which the young Texas flyer had requested transfer
from his regular Texas unit â€" the reason being Bush’s wish to work in
Alabama
on the ultimately unsuccessful U.S. Senate campaign of family friend Winton
"Red" Blount.


It is the 187th, Mintz’s unit, which was cited, during the 2000
presidential
campaign, as the place where Bush completed his military obligation. And it
is the 187th that the White House continues to contend that Bush belonged to
â€"
as recently as this week, when presidential spokesman Scott McClellan
released
payroll records and, later, evidence suggesting that Bush’s dental records
might be on file at Dannelly.


“There’s no way we wouldn’t have noticed a strange rooster in the
henhouse,
especially since we were looking for him,â€* insists Mintz, who has pored
over
documents relating to the matter now making their way around the Internet.
One
of these is a piece of correspondence addressed to the 187th’s commanding
officer, then Lt. Col. William Turnipseed, concerning Bush’s redeployment.


Mintz remembers a good deal of base scuttlebutt at the time about the letter,
which clearly identifies Bush as the transferring party. “It couldn’t be
anybody else. No one ever did that again, as far as I know.â€* In any case,
he is
certain that nobody else in that time frame, 1972-73, requested such a
transfer
into Dannelly.


Mintz, who at one time was a registered Republican and in recent years has
cast votes in presidential elections for independent Ross Perot and Democrat
Al
Gore, confesses to “a negative reactionâ€* to what he sees as out-and-out
dissembling on President Bush’s part. “You don’t do that as an
officer, you don’t
do that as a pilot, you don’t do it as an important person, and you
don’t do
it as a citizen. This guy’s got a lot of nerve.â€*


Though some accounts reckon the total personnel component of the 187th as
consisting of several hundred, the actual flying squadron â€" that to which
Bush
was reassigned â€" numbered only “25 to 30 pilots,â€* Mintz said.
“There’s no
doubt. I would have heard of him, seen him, whatever.â€* Even if Bush, who
was
trained on a slightly different aircraft than the F4 Phantom jets flown by
the
squadron, opted not to fly with the unit, he would have had to encounter the
rest
of the flying personnel at some point, in non-flying formations or drills.
“And if he did any flying at all, on whatever kind of craft, that would
have
involved a great number of supportive personnel. It takes a lot of people to
get
a plane into the air. But nobody I can think of remembers him.


“I talked to one of my buddies the other day and asked if he could
remember
Bush at drill at any time, and he said, ‘Naw, ol’ George wasn’t
there. And he
wasn’t at the Pit, either.’â€*


The “Pitâ€* was The Snake Pit, a nearby bistro where the squadron’s
pilots
would gather for frequent after-hours revelry. And the buddy was Bishop, then
a
lieutenant at Dannelly and now a pilot for Kalitta, a charter airline that in
recent months has been flying war materiel into the Iraq Theater of
Operations.


“I never saw hide nor hair of Mr. Bush,â€* confirms Bishop, who now lives
in
Goldsboro, N.C., is a veteran of Gulf War I and, as a Kalitta pilot, has
himself flown frequent supply missions into military facilities at Kuwait.
"In
fact," he quips, mindful of the current political frame of reference, "I saw
more
of Al Sharpton at the base than I did of George W. Bush."


Bishop voted for Bush in 2000 and believes that the Iraq war has served some
useful purposes â€" citing, as the White House does, disarmament actions
since
pursued by Libyan president Moammar Khadaffi â€" but he is disgruntled both
about
aspects of the war and about what he sees as Bush’s lack of truthfulness
about his military record.


“I think a commander-in-chief who sends his men off to war ought to be a
veteran who has seen the sting of battle,â€* Bishop says. “In Iraq: we have
a
bunch of great soldiers, but they are not policemen. I don’t think he [the
president] was well advised; right now it’s costing us an American life a
day. I’m
not a peacenik, but what really bothers me is that of the 500 or so that
we’ve
lost almost 80 of them were reservists. We’ve got an over-extended Guard
and
reserve.â€*


Part of the problem, Bishop thinks, is a disconnect resulting from the
president’s own inexperience with combat operations. And he is well beyond
annoyed
at the White House’s persistent claims that Bush did indeed serve time at
Dannelly. Bishop didn’t pay much attention to the claim when candidate
Bush first
offered it in 2000. But he did after the second Iraq war started and the
issue
came front and center.


“It bothered me that he wouldn’t ‘fess up and say, Okay, guys, I cut
out
when the rest of you did your time. He shouldn’t have tried to dance
around the
subject. I take great exception to that. I spent 39 years defending my
country.â€*


Like his old comrade Mintz, Bishop was a pilot for Eastern Airlines during
their reserve service in 1972 at Dannelly. Mintz then lived in Montgomery;
Bishop commuted from Atlanta, a two-hour drive away. Mintz and Bishop retired
from
the Guard with the ranks of lieutenant colonel and colonel, respectively.


Bishop, especially, is bitter about the fate of Eastern, which went bankrupt
during the administration of President George H.W. Bush, the current
incumbent’s father. “I watched my company dissolve under his
policies.â€* Both Bushes
were “children of privilege,â€* unlike himself and Mintz.


“Our fathers were poor dirt farmers. We would not have been given the same
considerations he and his father were,â€* says Bishop, who maintains that,
just as
the junior Bush used family and political influence to jump himself ahead of
500 other flight training applicants, the senior Bush "apparently" did, too,
when he became a naval aviator during World War Two. “I applaud him for
volunteering, but he should have waited his turn like everybody else.â€*


But, says Bishop, “At least I can give him credit for serving his
country.â€*
That is more, he suggested, than can be granted the younger Bush.


Would he consider voting for the president’s reelection? “Naw, this
goes to
an integrity issue. I like either [John] Kerry or [John] Edwards better.â€*
And
who would Mintz be voting for? “Not for any Texas politicians,â€* was the
Memphian’s sardonic answer.

Contemporary Media, Inc.

Corporate Offices:
460 Tennessee Street • Memphis, TN 38103 USA • Local & International: +1
901.521.9000 • Fax: [phone] • © Copyright 1996 - 2004 •
e-mail:
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: mg
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 03:32 PM

If someone wants to call someone who served in the National Guard a coward, I want to know his or her own status. I guess it can't be done for people in other countries, but what would you have done? I take considerable offense at sneering at the National Guard. They died as dead as other people in Vietnam. All of us were spare parts for other people.   If a veteran, or someone with close ties, such as a widow, brother, etc. wishes to cast aspersions over Guard service (not whether that service was fulfilled) let them...others who most likely sneered at us all at that time, do so with the knowledge that I have the lowest possible respect for you. Contempt.

mg

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: GUEST,clint keller
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 03:58 PM

I see no blame in serviing in the National Guard.

And I don't see much blame in being a little AWOL. I myself was sometimes technically AWOL from the First Infantry Division, going off to Junction City without a pass for a few hours once in a while. Never missed any duty, never got caught.

Being AWOL for months is something else. If I'd done that my ass would've been grass, as the expression was.

And I don't lie about it now.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Peter Woodruff
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 04:54 PM

Bush has Greenspan suggesting we pay for "tax cuts for the rich" to be paid for with our social security. What a GUY!

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: DougR
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 05:08 PM

To offset Alice's post, a Lt. Col. who served with Bush in Alabama has come forward to witness the fact that Bush reported, did his duty, etc. etc. Also, dental records show he was there.

Enough of this crap. If you are going to find fault with him, and I know most of you do, at least base your remarks on thruths, not made up lies by the Chairman of the Democratic Party and Michael Moore.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: DougR
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 06:17 PM

Greenspan didn't say that! He urged the congress to cut pork and make the tax cuts permanent.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: GUEST,guest from NW
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 01:20 AM

"Enough of this crap."

i agree dougR. enough of this crap about about how people are casting aspersions on the national guard or people that served in it. no one is doing that. we're talking about one PARTICULAR guy who sends people's sons and daughters to their deaths while he can't be bothered, now or since 1994(according to his own words), to validate to his own military service like all other presidents before him. the eyewitness who saw him said he spent his time sitting on the couch reading magazines. reading FUCKING magazines! and his dental records show that he showed up ONE DAY for a dental exam. he is SCUM who took the rich kids' way out while others died in his place, has the nerve to tell us how much he believed in that war all the while making sure it wasn't his ass on the line, and now sending others to die for his inept and bumbling "war on terror".

"base your remarks on thruths"

the truth is that people have been trying to get GWB to come up with the goods on his record since he first ran for governor of texas and there are also eyewitnesses now coming forward to say they were there when orders came down to "scrub" the records of anything that might "embarass" the governor. and the biggest truth is that none of this would matter if he weren't a sanctimonious twit who had to play dress-up on an aircraft carrier unlike any other president in the past. he has drawn this scrutiny because of his own disgraceful disrespect for the sacrifices of ordinary americans manipulated by his neo-con cabal. do any of his children find this "war" so compelling as to commit themselves to service?

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 04:02 AM

Guest from NW: Well said! Exactly!

...and what are his children doing now? They have certainly been kept out of the spotlight these days. Certainly they are not providing any service to the U.S. or anybody else. Yep - they been brought up to believe (just like their daddy) that they can get away with anything they want because they are entitled. Rules and laws are only for the peasants.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Alice
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 12:49 PM

Doug, respectfully, having his dental records there does not mean HE was there.

Here are some facts from his record:

===========
From May to November 1972, George W. Bush was living in Alabama working on the US senate campaign of Winton Blount and was required to attend drills with the Air National Guard unit in Montgomery, Alabama. There is no record that he attended any drills whatsoever. Additionally, General William Turnipseed (r) who was commander of the unit at that time has stated in interviews that he never saw Bush report for duty.

On September 5, 1972, Bush had requested permission to perform duty for September, October, and November at the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery. Permission was granted, and Bush was ordered to report to General William Turnipseed. In interviews, Turnipseed, and his administrative officer at the time, Kenneth K. Lott, have stated that they had no memory of Bush ever reporting.

Seven months later, at Ellington Air Force Base in Texas, Bush's two superior officers were unable to complete his annual evaluation covering the year from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973 because, "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of this report." Both superior officers, who are now dead, and also Ellington's top personnel officer at the time, mistakenly concluded that Bush served his final year of service in Alabama. Bush returned to live in Texas after the senatorial election in November, 1972, so this is obviously not true.

According to the records available from the National Guard, the period between May 1972 and May 1973 remains unaccounted for. George W. Bush himself has refused to answer questions about this period in his life, other than to state that he fulfilled all of his National Guard commitments. If this were true, why is there no record of him fulfilling these commitments at either of his posts in Texas or Alabama? Why is there not one commanding officer that can come forward and state unequivocally that Bush reported for duty?
=============

In fact, General Turnipseed has been quoted as saying he is "dead certain he didn't show up."

And how did Bush get into his spot in the National Guard? In spite of abysmally low test scores, he leap-frog jumped over more qualified men who scored higher than Bush.

Those who served with Bush and can attest to his being on duty can claim a cash award, two rewards actually, one in Texas and one in Alabama. Not many takers, it seems. see www.awolbush.com

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 02:04 PM

Between my friend Alice and GUEST from NW, my feelings have been covered. Doug ... I remember the debates here about Clinton, and your attitude was decidedly different. You will do anything to alibi for this man.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 09:23 PM

Well, just on the odd chance that anyone is really interested in information rather than inuendo, here are a few facts for you. I am not defending Bush in any way; I have no use for him individually or as President, and I was commanding an artillery battery in Vietnam when he was learning to fly obsolete jets.

Records released by the Bush White House show that he earned 2 retirement points in October 1972 and 4 in November of that year. He apparently earned more points in January, April and May 1973. This is based upon reports carried on CNN.com. A retirement point is earned for each 4 hours spent in a drill status, and may be earned in either a paid or nonpaid basis. A point may not be credited to a person's record unless he or she is either assigned or attached to the unit submitting the records. (BTW, I spent some 22 years in the Army Reserve, and am somewhat knowledgable on retirement points.)

A great deal has been made about the Commanding General of Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Alabama saying he never met Lt. Bush. It is highly unlikely that the general would have ever met a lousy lieutenant; when he "reported to the commanding general," the highest ranking person he most likely saw would have been a sergeant in the administrative office.   Most of the other people he might have casually encountered 31 years ago don't remember him either-and how many of us have memories that are perfect after all these years?

By the way, a former member of the Alabama Guard does say he recalls Bush; the report is in this CNN article.

I personally believe that Bush should be allowed to run on the abysmal record of the last three years, and made to answer for what he has done to this nation, and not be elected or not elected on the basis of something that may or may not have happened over thirty years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 09:55 PM

Hmmmm? One guy, who admits to being a Republican, steps forward and says he remembers Bush. Problem is that records show this guy wasn't ven around on the days he was suppopsed to rmember Bush???? Go figgiure that one, Dogie, et al...

Then the folks that were around when Bush was 'sposed to be there don't remember Bush being 'round??? LIke somethin' fishy going on here... Other than fish....

Now wouldn't this be something if a big ol' woff-woff chicken-halk war president was taken out 'cause of Vietnam??? Well, I'd just just have to say, "Thank you, Vietnam.." if it weren't for my 56,000 brothers who died there......

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 04:11 AM

I think artbrooks has reached the bottom line.

I have nothing but compassion for the men and women who have to serve under him. It must not do very much for their morale. I say bring them home and treat them with kindness.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 10:17 AM

I'd go along woth your last paragraph gladly, Art, if it wasn't for the fact that the Repubs 'Wave the Bloody Shirt', bullshit about Dems. Viet Nam era service records or lack thereof, and piss and moan about the Dem's "patriotism" at every opportunity.

Harry Truman was right: after cranking up the temperature for decades, if the Repub's can't stand the heat, they should just get the hell out of the kitchen.

Subject: RE: BS: Bottom line on AWOL story
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 10:28 AM

The AWOL story still has legs as far as I'm concerned. However, I also agree that there are far more important issues to be debated in this campaign.

What some Republican operatives want us to really focus on is the sanctity of heterosexual marriage. Although they might be willing to shift their mean spirited focus to BIG BLUE FROGS if we petitioned for their attention.

Charley Noble