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BS: Things I know about consciousness
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Subject: BS:Some things I know about consciousness From: Pied Piper Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:55 AM Some things I know about consciousness. 1 It's intermittent; we all sleep and have periods of non-consciousness. 2 It's slow (it takes time); as musicians we know from first hand learning needs consciousness to direct coconscious plastic systems in generating repeatable mechanical movements, but this is slow. Consciousness cannot operate by itself faster than about 1/2 to 1 second. 3 It is possible to be conscious without thought, but not without emotion, that is to say that it always "feels" like something to be conscious. I think these are fairly obvious and testable statements. PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: wysiwyg Date: 16 Aug 04 - 12:05 PM Things I "know" about consciousness include that whatever I think I know, I can only really accurately say that I experience or have discovered so far or suspect or have been told or think or believe. YMMV.... but I doubt it. I think "consciousness" is part of objective reality, but that our experience of it is subjective. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: CarolC Date: 16 Aug 04 - 12:20 PM So what are you, Pied Piper, when you're sleeping and dreaming? Conscious, not conscious, or something else? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Aug 04 - 01:00 PM There are episodes in consciousness during sleep. They are called "dreams". There are also periods in sleep when the mental consciousness is completely still. That is a deeper form of sleep, and it is the form needed to restore full vitality. The purpose of meditation is to still the mental consciousness while one is still awake. Ask yourself why, Pied Piper. What would be the purpose in doing that? Have you ever done it? Have you ever tried to do it? Most people never have, therefore they don't know what it's like. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 16 Aug 04 - 01:05 PM The lightbulb, turned off, believes all light is gone.... Anyway, there are many things of which you are conscious while your body is sleeping. And you and your body may sleep in synch or not. SOme people are half-asleep all the time, and some poeple are all asleep- half the time. :>) I said that. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: mack/misophist Date: 16 Aug 04 - 02:11 PM And some people are all asleep all the time - I am that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,brucie Date: 16 Aug 04 - 02:21 PM To sleep, to sleep, perchance to dream . . . Shakespeare said that. Go to sleep fer crissake. I said that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:19 PM ...ah -- there's the rub!!! Am I Amos dreaming that I am a didactic jerk? Or a didactic jerk, dreaming that I am Amos? It's a mystery! lol A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:36 PM Great quote there, Amos! You have outdone Abe Lincoln. The normal mental consciousness is exactly like a lightbulb, thinking all light is gone when it's been turned off. There is actually quite a bit of simple consciousness in a sleeping body. For instance, if I set an alarm clock for any time at all, I invariably wake up just 5 minutes or less before the alarm is set to go off. This is because my body consciousness knows perfectly well what time it is all the time, and it doesn't want to hear that alarm go off. That doesn't mean my busy mind knows what time it is, though. It may be unconscious. The body itself has a simpler and more basic consciousness than the mind, and that consciousness is still regulating the body while the mind rests. The mistake of the average human mind is imagining that it and only it is capable of consciousness. It is 1/3 of the human consciousness, but it thinks it's the whole shebang. It's the one that normally talks, reasons, remembers, compares, uses numbers, and regards itself as separate from everything else and everyone else around it. It's the Ego. Above and beyond that mind is a higher intelligence which does not think in terms of separation. That intelligence is accessible through meditation and other disciplines. You cannot access it without calming and stilling the mind...while awake. It can then be used in concert with the mind, to great good effect. The mind is not the Captain of the ship, it's the first mate and other lesser officers. The body is the crew and the ship. A first mate who denies the validity or existence of the Captain is engaging in mutiny, whether he knows it or not. This is not wise, and it leads to a variety of foolish human behaviours, mostly based on insecurity or egotism of one kind or another. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,heric Date: 16 Aug 04 - 07:34 PM Well, here's what Gerald Edelman knows about consciousness: Competition for advantage in the environment enhances the spread and strength of certain synapses, or neural connections, according to the "value" previously decided by evolutionary survival. The amount of variance in this neural circuitry is very large. Certain circuits get selected over others because they fit better with whatever is being presented by the environment. In response to an enormously complex constellation of signals, the system is self-organizing according to Darwin's population principle. It is the activity of this vast web of networks that entails consciousness by means of what we call "reentrant interactions" that help to organize "reality" into patterns. The thalamocortical networks were selected during evolution because they provided humans with the ability to make higher order discriminations and adapt in a superior way to their environment. Such higher order discriminations confer the ability to imagine the future, to explicitly recall the past and to be conscious of being conscious. Because each loop reaches closure by completing its circuit through the varying paths from the thalamus to the cortex and back, the brain can "fill in" and provide knowledge beyond that which you immediately hear, see or smell. The resulting discriminations are known in philosophy as qualia. These discriminations account for the intangible awareness of mood, and they define the greenness of green and the warmness of warmth. Together, qualia make up what we call consciousness. Wider Than the Sky: The Phenomenal Gift of Consciousness (Yale University Press, 2004) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 16 Aug 04 - 10:05 PM Heric: The notion that qualia -- discriminations in awareness -- can be made by rapid variance in neural circuits is (to my view) kind of like asserting that thought and voices are hidden inside the circuitry of telephones, because they ar ecapoable of consucting so many different kinds of conversations. The porosition entirely omits the aware source behind the circuit. Edelman's assertion that circuitous loops can account for awareness just doesn't add up to me, sorry. I think it is some kind of academic cop out, actually. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Peace Date: 16 Aug 04 - 10:09 PM www.u.arizona.edu/~chalmers/online.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Aug 04 - 10:56 PM Agreed, Amos, it's a complex line of reasoning based on an initially false assumption. I can readily see how Gerald Edelman could have formulated such a theory. It fits right in with a certain scientific viewpoint, which regards the inert physical universe as somehow being the original source of all conscious life. But they cannot suggest how that happened in any meaningful way...they have to say, "Well, it just happened." Uh-huh. :-) Sounds like a fairy story to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:07 PM Use it or lose it, expansion is joy Accept or refuse it, it's your's to employ Dance with it daily, or shut it uptight The choice is yours, maybe our timing is right! Conscious is more than consciousness does Reflections on shore are no view from above But life be it wholesome, in being be grand The riddle is winsome , and love is... unplanned ttr |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:11 PM Very nice. I like that. Love has no plan, but simply is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Peace Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:12 PM Neat poem, TTR. As always. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: SINSULL Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:21 PM Amos' "I said that" was Dylan, no? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:25 PM Correct, SINSULL. In one bootleg concert I have, he quips, "T.S.Eliott said that", and the audience cracks up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Rapparee Date: 17 Aug 04 - 09:38 AM If lightbulbs are darksuckers, is consciousness then an unconsciounesssucker? Or is it the other way around? Or is unconsciousness all-pervasive in the universe and we only recognize consciousness because it is different, as Dirac postulated about positrons? I can't quite believe that consciousness is pervades the universe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,noddy Date: 17 Aug 04 - 11:52 AM On the "light" on or off thing it depends on whether you think of light as a wave form or as a particle (photon). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 17 Aug 04 - 11:56 AM Or both. My understanding is that particles actually are waveforms. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Bill D Date: 17 Aug 04 - 12:38 PM "t fits right in with a certain scientific viewpoint, which regards the inert physical universe as somehow being the original source of all conscious life. But they cannot suggest how that happened in any meaningful way.." well, in the Matter & Spirit thread, some are trying...*smile* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,heric Date: 17 Aug 04 - 12:51 PM Amos, by fortunate coincidence, I happen to be channeling Dr. Edelman's consciousness right now! To you he responds: "It is silly reductionism, of course, to claim that you and I are just bags of molecules. But I do not believe consciousness arises from spooky forces. I don't believe in some Cartesian dualistic domain that is inaccessible to science. The brain is embodied and the body is embedded in its environment. That trio must operate in an integrated way. You can't separate the activity and development of the brain from the environment or the body. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,Guess who... Date: 17 Aug 04 - 12:59 PM So, Edelman, is intelligence a spooky force? Is consciousness a spooky force? How about a sense of "being"? Is that spooky? How about creativity and the desire to make use of it in new and interesting ways? I can just hear you yelling, "Egad! Spooks!!!" as you run for cover hurriedly in the face of these mysterious, impalpable forces. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,heric Date: 17 Aug 04 - 01:16 PM I'm sorry. I asked him. But he doesn't respond to guests. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: CarolC Date: 17 Aug 04 - 02:05 PM I'm sorry. I asked him. But he doesn't respond to guests. First time I read that, I thought it said, "But he doesn't respond to ghosts". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 17 Aug 04 - 04:44 PM Yet somehow you manage to channel his consciousness? Bizarre stuff, this non-spooky consciousness!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Wolfgang Date: 17 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM the aware source behind the circuit To start from this assumption is a fruitless research agenda. It has been tried since 4000 years or more and brought forth nothing but different names for a moving agens: psyche, anima, ying/yang, force vitale, soul,... I refute this notion not so much because I would know that it is wrong (actually I don't) but because it leads to nowhere but assertions and appeals to wrong analogies. Brain research within a few decades has brought many more new facts than centuries of philosophying (or whatever the verb here is). The radical alternative is not that the source behind the circuitry is some master neuron (a wrong way taken by some researchers) but that some patterns of action of the circuitry give rise to autoception. I don't see the moment coming where we speak in our daily language about feelings and incidents in terms of neural circuitry. The vernacular still will use words like death, love, anger, I,.... for these words are very good abbreviations for parts of our autoception and the communication is much easier by using these words. Science, however, will use a completely different notion, for this will be the fruitful approach. Knowing about the four basic forces in physics doesn't prevent us (even the physicists among us) from using expressions like 'that's a hard surface', or 'attention, you may fall down' or 'that breaks easily' instead of much more complicated formulations. But you shouldn't expect people doing research on that field using your everday language and thinking. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:19 PM Thus spake the hammer, denying the hand that wielded it. Thus spake the clock, denying the mind that designed it and brought it into being. :-) (More wrong analogies, Wolfgang?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Georgiansilver Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:21 PM consciousness of whatever is whatever it is at the time, whether in wakefulness or dreams. It is something you have no control over....but your body/brain has. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,heric Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:27 PM Funny you should mention that LH. All day I have been thinking that in the blind watchmaker, Richard Dawkins met the test above to describe in a meaningful way how the inert physical universe somehow became the original source of all conscious life happened. (At least he does when you're reading it. A few weeks later after reading it, I inevitably forget how, and am required to read it again.) It is his best book, in my opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:37 PM Hmm. Well, when I was a kid I believed absolutely that life somehow arose spontaneously out of inert matter with no spiritual origins, because I was a scientifically minded atheist in an atheistic family. I understand that viewpoint very well and I understand just how convincing it is, because it WAS my viewpoint until I reached my early 20's. I think it's fine starting life out as a rational atheist. It makes you examine things with a great deal of attention to the details and the facts. I even stopped believing in Santa Claus way before the other kids did, because I could see that the whole idea was unworkable. Now I believe in all kinds of spiritual stuff, and I don't even belong to any organized religion. I never got "saved", as they say. I like this progression from scientific atheist to scientific believer. It puts me in some very good company. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,heric Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:58 PM Agreed. And I am in good company with you. It could well be that the vast majority of people in these types of arguments are in agreement without knowing it, often by ambiguous definitions. I consider myself a scientific believer (perhaps working in the opposite direction than you, with no meaningful difference in the end result.) But that is to believe in what? An oversoul? God? Jehovah? A conscious design of the detectable universe (or more or less)? I think people argue about those things when they actually only expressing the mystery in different terms. If a scientific theory can rationally explain a natural phenomenon, I gravitate towards it as a chipping away at the mystery. Even if it explains a solar system without "conscious" design. Even if it explains plant life w/out conscious design. Even if it explains a barley understood phenomenon as consciousness? Absolutely. The mystery remains, so . . very . . large oh my god it's infinite! I just accept that the infinite is beyond my comprehension (for now!) Call it whatever. I agree! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 17 Aug 04 - 08:07 PM To answer Rapaire's question earlier, the initial condition is consciousness; it is reduced, divided, solidified and otherwise made into ignoral by the exercise of will. Reversing that path can reduce any apparent solidity or barrier into consciousness again, but it requires a great relaxation and sensitivity of mind. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,heric Date: 17 Aug 04 - 08:18 PM yee-ha! All is allegory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 17 Aug 04 - 09:42 PM After all, there always is a functional way of explaining an event, as well as a spiritual way...provided one knows how to figure it out. Until one does, it remains in the realm of mystery and theory. Amos - I agree with what you said, but what is "ignoral"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Bill D Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:52 PM "ignoral"...stuff that loses reality by virtue of being 'ignored'....like dirty socks in the kids room. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 17 Aug 04 - 11:20 PM That black condition of a reality which consciousness is maintaining the decision to not-know about. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,Dewey Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:18 AM The superconscious mind is the AID to ACQUIRING the DISCIPLINE of GUIDANCE toward a chief AIM. After a while it becomes EFFORTLESS to TRIGGER THE SUBCONSCIOUS. But AT FIRST it must be coyed into working on its own FROM THE GET-GO. INTO THE WORLD of CONSCIOUS thought comes the CONRNERSTONE of this philosophy onto which the foundation of concentration is based. IN THE CONTINUUM OF IDEAS reside the UNSETTLED MIND which must first be tamed AT WILL in order to experience the confluence of synergistic knowledge into which WILL IS DERIVED. After experieincing happy thoughts of successful outcomes, occasionally it becomes necessary to tame the sub-conscious before proceding into the entire exercise. Relax for a while until a state of quiessence is achieved, Make you mind as calm and forthright as humanly possible. Access all knowledge accumulating in the data based of your mind and then expand on that knowledge Begin at once to discover THE INNER VOICE THAT CALLS YOU TO ACTION, AND ABOVE ALL ELSE ACT!!! Begin to act IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT RESERVATION until the DESIRE TO ACT becomes EFFORTLESS. It is only through CONTINUAL ACTIVITY that the INNER WORKINGS OF THE MIND begin to MANIFEST Results. Results are EASY. It is the taming of you mind to direct your though impulses to a definite end that becomes the "real problem" You are (thus) being guided along paths never attained by most mortal men, the devine inspiration that is flowing through your pen is the result of concentrated effort. The EFFORT has become EASY because your thoughts have become easy and it is now UP TO YOUR MIND to PROVIDE THE ANSWERS you seek to the questions YOU ask and are always asking. The availability is not dependant UPON THE PERSON but upon the source of the mind being tapped. The super-conscious is the storehouse and floodgate upon which all ideas real and imagined are brought into fruition. Simply believe and watch the DETAILS OF THE MINDS POWER, suddenly MANISFEST themselves into the physical reality of the being who ENTRUSTS HIS WILL to be EXACTED upon them. Sorry, my e-mail hasn't work for any of you.I thought you wouldn't mind if I placed a small bit of my very first writings dictated from the universal mind on this thread. This is merely the start of my writings that keep ever expanding from the above paragraphs. I've got about 40 pages now of this faith-based instant dictation style writing. Dewey (the nut) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,Dewey Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:22 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Wolfgang Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:42 AM Thus spake the clock, denying the mind that designed it (Little Hawk) (1) You miss the main point of my post: I'm not so much interested in final truths as in good working assumptions. One assumption has been fruitless the other is promising. The debate about final truths I leave to philosophers. (2) You are starting an infinite regress without realising it. If there is a mover behind our world what is it that moves the mover? Just one step later you are at the same point. To say 'God' or 'energy' or 'spirit' at that point is no response for me. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,Dewey Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:51 AM Even as I was writing the above (see 1st post here), from the very first paragraphy I learned that the infinite mind (higher self) was my GUIDE. Not my own pety mind at it stupid and single thoughts. In need not write stilted, contrived or in a state of pondering, the message was simple: have faith and do everthing:from the movement of you pen, to your very next thought/word/paragraph from the faith of the higher- universal mind. Just as is noted by the infinite mind as I fatihfully copied its message, "Results are EASY" it's the taming of your mind that causes the problems. This is the "monkey-mind" as Little Hawk once so called it, and I agree with him, becasue without the right "state of mind" the higher mind is impossible to reach. What I've learned about consciousness is this: 1. There is a low consciousness, known as thinking and imagining things, and piecing them together during our waking hours of activity. In supernatural terms: this is the hadicapped mechanical level that requires no emotions and little beyond ordinary results. 2. There is the disorganized subconscious state obtained during sleep which is worthless at the organizational creative level. 3. There is the super-conscious consciousness, that is triggered by desire, decision, repetition of thought in a spirit of expectancy. The regular mind tells this super mind what EXACTLY it wants, and the infinite sends the RESULTS (spectacle detailed result more detailed and profound that what the person could have came up with on his own)back to the human being in the form of an impulse. These impulse through repition become plans and working ideas. (i.e. theories, inventions, religious theology etc.) Dewey |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Wolfgang Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:57 AM Thus spake the clock, denying the mind that designed it (Little Hawk) (1) You miss the main point of my post: I'm not so much interested in final truths as in good working assumptions. One assumption has been fruitless the other is promising. The debate about final truths I leave to philosophers. (2) You are starting an infinite regress without realising it. If there is a mover behind our world what is it that moves the mover? Just one step later you are at the same point. To say 'God' or 'energy' or 'spirit' at that point is no response for me. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,noddy Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:07 AM oh sod it! I am going back to sleep this is too heavy for me |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: GUEST,Dewey Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:21 AM Wolfgang, Feel free to see the higher-self, infinite mind, in any way that brings meaning. But this I will tell you from one has directly experienced it. It is MORE than JUST and extention of myself, a repetition of and idea, or a infinite regression. It is an intelligence, a first cause, a power! It is the same force that holds sub-atomic structures together, creates the laws of gravity, that keeps this planet and all other heavenly bodies perfeclt balanced etc. i.e. it not only computes, but it thinks, and we are complete and utter peons, compared to the way that it thinks. We are self actualized through it, by trusting in it a using its available resource at our power, to extract it's wisdom, prowess and magic. Also the infinite mind works and thinks with other minds as well, and also operated INDEPENDANT of other minds, it is the orchestra condutor, we are the side musicians that interact. These are my sincere beliefs and experiences with the infinite mind and it infinite capacity for physcial manisfestation creativity and genius. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:19 AM Dewey: Sometimes ya feel like a nut and sometimes ya don't, pal. But a per centage of your audience is not going to fully appreciate what you say no matter how often nor how loudly you say it. That's just how the thing lies. Hurts their heads. Using capitals to emphasize things is just gonna make their eyes sore to boot. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 18 Aug 04 - 01:03 PM Dewey, I think you are absolutely correct on all points. The discipline of meditation is applied in most Eastern spiritual disciplines to reach that universal source of intelligence you are referring to. This is done by first quieting the restless body (somewhat difficult for many, very difficult for some), then quieting the restless mind (very difficult for almost everyone). It is because people cannot quiet their minds that they have great difficulty reaching their higher sources of intelligence. If they do reach those sources they find great peace, great love, great inspiration, great self-knowledge, calm confidence in one's own goodness, the goodness of others, and the goodness of life...and truly brilliant possibilities in every area of life. I am just a beginner at meditation, because I have a very busy, restless mind that doesn't particularly want to submit to being quieted for a bit! I am just beginning to appreciate how beneficial it can be to quiet that mind and tap into something enormously more powerful and effective. A lot of people are going to think you're crazy. Others are going to pounce gleefully on your spelling errors, saying "Universal Mind can't spell. LOL!" but, it's of no consequence if they do. They have a perfect right to interpret reality as it suits them...and they will. Wolfgang - I understand your point. Yes, if one finds a mover behind the World, then what moves the mover? And so on... Well, Wolfgang, there is always going to be a prior something that we cannot explain. It is impossible for human beings to ever come up with a total explanation of the Infinite or of the Timeless. What is important is to work with the whole system around us effectively, rather than to determine what the original cause of everything is. It's a living system. We will never sort out the original cause, because if it does (or did) exist at all it exists outside of the perceivable things and events that we are capable of observing through our physical senses. Therefore, it is not actually the kind of thing one would look for with the type of scientific disciplines you like working with. It relates to them in countless ways, but it is not reachable through them. The terminology used to allude to it, likewise, would not exactly be the usual scientific kind of terminology, but more likely the kind of words found in some poetry. Science is just one area of inquiry in the greater field of what we call Life. It doesn't suffice to cover everything nor should it be expected to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 18 Aug 04 - 01:13 PM Listen to da Man,guys! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Bill D Date: 18 Aug 04 - 01:50 PM "need not write stilted, contrived or in a state of pondering, the message was simple: have faith and do everthing:from the movement of you pen, to your very next thought/word/paragraph from the faith of the higher- universal mind." ok, Dewey...I'll try that...my next paragraph will be only the thoughts I receive without pondering them... here goes.... ------------------------------------------------------------------- inveterate bathyescapes recapitulate ambidextrous nostils...all is wild when reform waits on no man--call me Absolom, my date is (pause here...nothing coming in)..ok..off we go again... piety absconds with narwhals beside the gate...Ogalallah aquifers empty...many are the hearts that are weary tonight..(argghhh song creeping in)....pestiferous noodles begin to bite..(that CAN'T be right!)...."a friend in need is a friend with weed"..luminous desk of my mother's urging feeds the current objection with no further interference beyond zipped ostentation...Gold standard on tuesday is no clone of any heart////// --------------------------------------------------------------------- wow...I don't think I'm cut out for that method, Dewey...I think I'll go back to pondering... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: CarolC Date: 18 Aug 04 - 01:56 PM You have a very psychedelic mind, Bill D. ;-) (This is not necessarily a bad thing. You could probably have that published as poetry.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Two_bears Date: 18 Aug 04 - 02:30 PM 1 It's intermittent; we all sleep and have periods of non-consciousness. It IS true that during sleep the conscious mind shuts down; but the sub conscious mind is aware; so it is not periods of non consciousness. ANL - 2B |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Two_bears Date: 18 Aug 04 - 02:47 PM 3. There is the super-conscious consciousness, that is triggered by desire, decision, repetition of thought in a spirit of expectancy. The regular mind tells this super mind what EXACTLY it wants, and the infinite sends the RESULTS (spectacle detailed result more detailed and profound that what the person could have came up with on his own)back to the human being in the form of an impulse. These impulse through repition become plans and working ideas. (i.e. theories, inventions, religious theology etc.) Dewey: The Hawai'ians called this superconscious mind the 'Aumakua (owmakooa), they called the conscious mind Uhane (oohahnee), and sub conscious mind Unihipili (ooneeheepeelee). I would highly recommend for you to read my website. http://www.geocities.com/huna101. ANL - 2B |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:40 PM Dewey, try emailing me at teckserve@encode.com We'll see if it works when I reply to your message. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Bill D Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:48 PM "You could probably have that published as poetry." your probably right, Carol...that scares me. Poetry has been on the decline since Ogden Nash..*grin* (I really DID do my best to just focus on the keyboard and let thoughts roll in....I think mine were shanghaied by j0hn from Hull and routed thru Amos, using reverse Polish notation.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:15 PM BillD: To determine if you could get it published as poetry, ask any 6 year olds if it is a poem- If they say no, you have a pretty good chance of publication, if not outright awards. If they say it is, forget it- you will not find anyone who will touch it with a ten foot pole... And yes, it has been in decline- I wonder why?... "In the old days a poet used to sweat turning out a sonnet, say. Very difficult form. Exactly 14 lines, all of them hung together with rhyme, rhythm, meter, perfectly. It was too much work for the poet, so blank verse and then free verse came in. And then anarchy. The new poet never bothered to learn how to write a sonnet, or to measure his lines in correct meter and to follow a rhythm system. He dashed off his inspired poem in a matter of a half hour and was surprised when after a few decades of this people stopped reading poetry." Among the Bad Baboons, by Mack Reynolds Copyright 1968 Galaxy Publishing Corp. 8-{E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Little Hawk Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:25 PM Good point, BB. There is some wonderful stuff out there in younger children's literature too, because children are assumed to still think and express themselves like normal human beings, I suppose, unprogrammed yet by sophisticated modern style and "coolness". There's a lot of great art in the better children's books. I wish there were more books written for adults that showed that sort of imagination. Straightforward affirmative spiritual writing is often rejected too, because it's just not cynical enough to appeal to the "cool" set, steeped in their world-weary posturing and self-important negativism. It's as if they gloried in the rugged discovery that life is hard, mean, unfair, and ultimately tragic (not true!). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:32 PM LH, Life can be unfair*- so what? It is what one makes of the situation that is important, not how much one complains about the unfairness of it all. * As a dead white male, I should have it made- but don't get half the respect that I deserve... 8-{E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Amos Date: 18 Aug 04 - 06:41 PM Gold standard on tuesday is no clone of any heart////// Dang, Bill, you were just getting to the rich mixture and making a breakthrough when you hung up the phone!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Bill D Date: 18 Aug 04 - 08:58 PM no, Amos...the phone rang! (Remember what happened when Coleridge was 'getting "Kubla Khan"?) well, maybe I can recapture the moment sometime... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: CarolC Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:18 PM (Remember what happened when Coleridge was 'getting "Kubla Khan"?) I have a pop-up picture book of that poem, Bill. Honest to goodness, I really do. It was made by a very strange person named Nick Bantock (scroll down almost to the bottom). If you scroll down a bit further, you can see a book he made from a collection of old post cards called, "The Missing Nose Flute". Now can you see what kinds of ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Things I know about consciousness From: Wolfgang Date: 20 Aug 04 - 03:11 AM You see that correctly, Little Hawk, there is no answer to some questions. I just wanted to get rid of that stupid argumentation that a materialistic world view is incomplete for there must be a mover behind what we see. It is stupid for it could be applied as well to another world view. Each single world view is open to that argumentation so let's just skip when we discuss a scientific world view. That only is applying a criticism to another view that could as well be made against one's own world view. Wolfgang |
