Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs

Subject: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: GUEST,Nickp
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 10:59 AM

OK Cats

I have one of the above printers (which may only be available here in the UK) and am having real problems in getting accurate colours out of it.

I have spent hours adjusting the densities, the contrast etc., following all the help topics and experimenting with pictures which I have scanned and so know what the results should be. No success. Blue particulary tends to overpower but cutting it back affects most others.

I'm not expecting a perfect reproduction but I used to come fairly close with my old Lexmark before it gave up the ghost.

Does anyone else have this printer (or possibly the same family) with a good colour reproduction and if so, could they list the colour values for me please?

I am using the right inks, in case you wondered.

Many thanks, Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: nickp
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:00 AM

Strange... why didn't my cookie work. Oh well.......

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 04:17 PM

I have a C84. They give them away over here (U.S.) when you buy certain other items.

My color management is marked 'Automatic', and everything I have is the way it was when I installed the printer. Works just fine. I wonder if you have clogged jets or a bum ink cartridge. If you right click on the icon for the printer, you'll get the options of 'nozzle check', 'head cleaning', which might be good things to do. If it's a new printer, I'd complain.

If it's not... my last Epsom got its color nozzles gummed up about a year after I bought it, and I don't think there's anything I could have done to un-gum them. I had a pretty good black-and-white printer after that.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:23 PM

Not had one of them but I could never get the colour right on my stylus 880. Things always came out sort of too dark - darker shades of the colours but it wasn't something I could adjust with brightness/contrast. If that makes any sense - I know what I mean but can't really explain it. The pictures looked very good but never matched the originals. It did the same both with genuine and pattern cartridges.

That one ended up the same way as Jeri's C84 after a couple of years. I still use it as a B/W printer though - it's faster than my Epson R200 and as inkjets go is very cheap to run - I'm paying £1.99+Vat for black cartidges.

I've not had any colour problems with the R200 which is a 6 colour job. I can scan and print and to my eye which is perhaps not as sensitive as others, I get a perfect match. Whatever, it is by far the best I have owned for photos (scanned and digital camera).

Coming back to yours, one thing I can think of that may be worth trying is changing the media type or ensuring it is set to the media you are using. My stylus 440 would print slightly overpowering colour if I had it set for plain paper but used inkjet photo paper.

I'll try to remember to try Pip's printer tommorrow. That one is a C46 - I'd guess the closest model we have to yours.

Jon

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:31 PM

There's a C84 sitting within arm's length, here at my wife's computer, and an 880 downstairs in my office. Haven't had problems with either one.

I second the motion about the heads.

The REAL workhorse is the HP 4L laser we have had for at least 10 years. It just keeps chugging away.

The next color printer I get will be a laser. The prices are coming down on home models. But I'll probably get my wife a 19" flat panel first.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:36 PM

The paper does make a big difference. With Epsons, you have to run a colour print at least once a month (ideally once a week), or the heads will block. I've had a Stylus 980 for several years with few problems (except, for some reason, with a few pdf images produced by other people); prints are darker than screen display, obviously. Can't speak for newer models, especially those without manual controls. My parents have one that won't allow their computer to shut down, so they have to unplug the printer first!

Do you have colour profiles installed? Sometimes monitor settings can mislead, too.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 03:39 PM

First you will have to determine whether the fault is with the printer? the printer inks? the printer driver/windows or mac software, or, if trying to print photographs, the image manipulation program. Download and install the latest printer drivers compatable with your computer running system. Check that the printer settings are reset to the factory settings, clean the printer heads then clean them again. Print out solid blocks of red, yellow, blue and black and some letters and numbers, making sure the printer is set to print on the type of paper you are using. Hopefully this will at least take you closer towards a better behaved printer. Color matching pictures on the screen to what your printer churns out is a different matter and an easy way of doing this is "the holly grail" of digital photographers. Most of the secerets are supplyed with the image manipulation softwear and the faffing about propperly setting this up is well worth taking plenty of time with. If you are not already using some version of Adobe Photoshop then I would recomend you gave it a try. Beleve the hype. it realy is the best. I have a well used Epson C62 which can still turnout some great prints.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 02:03 PM

Thanks for the ideas folks.

These are not the first cartridges and the problem is fairly constatnt. They could fo with another clean/align anyway but the problem was still there after the last run through.

I might go back to the factory settings and start again.

Jon, yeah, that contrast/brightness seems to be part of the issue.

Paper - I use various sorts and try to match the setting to it.

I do have a profile set - it's the one it automatically selected - a kodak one - maybe I'll change it (any suggestions?) and I know it's unlikely to match the screen but comparing the same print made on the old Lexmark (close to the scanned original) it is very different.

I do have Photoshop and although I only use a fraction of it I'm impressed. I'll have to have a root around in there and see if there's a way to compensate - but the originals seem fine and it seems a shame to corrupt them just to sort out the printer.

Still, there's a few things to try - starting with a good clean!
Thanks for your help.

Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 06:48 PM

I'll note that the Epson site they connect me to as a US user shows several comments, in user guide and FAQ, that for this printer at least "color may vary." They don't seem to offer anything much more than "use correct inks and paper." They do suggest that useful life of ink cartridges is 6 months(?) from the time the package is opened, and imply that you should throw them away after that, even if there's ink left. Their FAQ in particular gives a little about some differences that are "expected" with different inks and papers, although its mostly generalitites.

There were several comments about clogged print nozzles in previous posts. I can't tell, from the Epson info for the C84, whether it has separate heads or if they're built into the ink cartridges. The info in the User Manual implies that there are no separate nozzles. This is common on recent printers since it gets you a new set of print heads every time you change ink (and perhaps because it "justifies" more expensive ink cartridges?).

Epson appears to have a policy of not submitting drivers for "Windows Compliance Certification," so if you're using a Win OS it's common to see "objections" when you try to install a new Epson driver. Usually the drivers work ok if you override the objections, but Win2K made really nasty comments at installation and refuses to recognize any Epson driver for my 1200U scanner, while WinXP seems perfectly happy with the "updated" one I downloaded. Their "ignore Microsoft" attitude does seem to result in more frequent driver updates, and decreases the likelihood that you'll hear "accidentally" that a new one is available, so a check for new - or alternate - drivers may be in order if you have a problem.

I would expect that their UK support site(s) would have pretty much the same stuff as the US ones, but just in case their's something different and for US users:

Printer Support may be handy for other Epson users, but for the C84 you pick it from the list of printers which will take you to:

C84 Support Overview

Links from there go to possibly useful info at:

C84 FAQ

Most of the FAQ and troubleshooting seems to just send you to the appropriate section in the User Guide(s), so if you don't have them you might want to just download them from C84 User Guides

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 03:17 PM

I own 2 of the Epson C-84 printers and have had no problems at all with them. I restore photographs and do graphic design professionaly. I use Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Illustrator to regulate my colors before I print. You have to know your machine and what it will put out and then adjust your colors accordingly to compensate for any shortcomings it might have. With the proper experience and a trained eye, I do about 10 color prints a day and get them right every time. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 10:11 PM

I've had no problem with my C-84. Just changed the black cartridge in fact.
The color ones work fine to my untrained eye.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: GUEST,desperado
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 08:40 AM

hi, i have an epson stylus c 84. i work in a company repairing printers. the printer prints blank pages. i have cleaned the printer nozzels and i have removed and cleaned the printer head and it is ok. but it still prints blank pages. i have no solution what to do. so please if anyone knows something about epson printers please contact me [e-mail]
thanks

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: GUEST,SM
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:57 PM

Hi! Glad to have found this site. I recently got a c84 free when I bought so many inks from a company. I wanted to use it mainly for printing photographs. The sharpness is good but I cannot get consistency with the colours. They are very blue and green and I have tried messing about with the advanced colour settings etc. Only limited success, the pictures tend to look false, far too vivid. Difficult to explain as Jon said. I had a c43ux and a c20 previously which gave fantastic colours although not the same sharpness.
I've tried -15 cyan, -10 magenta with some success or these and brightness +15. Overall still not happy.
Cheers

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Compton
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 08:38 AM

My C84 is now in the loft and an Epsom R300 chugs out the stuff.
From buying the C84, The First printer I brought home, went straight back due to no (Epsom Original Cartride) Yellow, printing. The second one did print ok...but I then changed over to JETTEC (they advertise on TV now) and all worked excest Yellow...So I bought then another Epson Original. Yes it worked OK..My tame Computer Repairer when I went in to see him ...I was now thinking of committing suicide or buying another printer told me that there was a design fault (!!) on the Epsom C84...Something to do with the yellow ink(!!)
Take my advice cut your losses and get an all-singing, all dancing R300....You know it makes sense.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 10:19 PM

My C-84 has no problems whatsoever with the yellow ink or any other color & I use it to restore color photos professionaly. You have to use only genuine Epson cartridges and not the cheap off brand stuff.

                                                 SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 10:31 PM

I am glad to hear tehat I am not the only one that is having the yellow ink problem. Have wasted more ink with the nozzle cleaning business---all to no avail. Nice part is---I never run out of yellow since it never gets used. Forget the colors though.

Seriously though, when I just print with yellow (as a test) it prints---when it comes to, say, printing a full color print the yellows are missing.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Compton
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 11:24 AM

Like Sol Zeller...there is one big ptoblem with the C84. It doesn't like Non-Epson Cartidges...especially Yellow !!!!.. and I'm not too sure about Epson Yellow either!!. Epson made a turkey with this one!...Strange how it isn't on the (Main) product list, now!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: GUEST,NIckp (uncookied)
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 04:13 PM

Having started this one off I'm glad it's being useful - even if negatively.

The latest on my problems is that I've now changed the profile (I'm now using an adobe one), set it to use factory defaults and am using non-epson ink.

The results are ... well... better by quite a lot although not really what I'm after. I may yet play a little with the slider adjustment but can't spare the time at present.

I certainly can't afford a replacement at the meoment so I'll make do with it. It'll manage! (so will I!)

Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: GUEST,SM
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 02:34 PM

Hello again. Glad to see more of you have added to this site since I did. I spoke to the Epson help centre Phone no. 0870 4437766 and they told me the problems were not the printer but the papers.
According to them Epson printers do not "heat ink when printing and it cannot penetrate the coating on papers such as Kodak, that you must use Epson papers and that only certain papers are compatable with the C84". A good salesman if nothing else I guess. I have tried original inks and the results are slightly better but not perfect. Perhaps I will try the papers they suggest. They can be found on buyepson.co.uk

good luck!

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 07:35 PM

My Epson Stylus photo gave similar problems at first.

On Windows OS, in control panel, I set up a colour profile to get a monitor image which most closely matched what I saw in the original photo. Then set the same profile for the printer. Problem solved. There are 27 profiles to choose from, including 2 which relate specifically to Photoshop. I think it's important that monitor and printer are on the same wavelength, and particularly NOT one on CMYK, and t'other on RGB.

Might work for you too. Good luck!

Don T.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 01:37 PM

I have given my Epson color stylus 760, bought in 1999, heavy usage and have been satisfied with the results, which are excellent. I always use Epson papers and inks.
My next printer, however, will have separate ink color cartridges rather than the combined color cartridge, which still retains a fair amount of ink when the printer pronounces 'empty.' A bit expensive.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 02:00 PM

I use Inkcycle compatibles on my 750, with the same results, much lower prices, more ink in the cartridges, and generally two day delivery to my front door.

I definitely agree with Q on separate colours for my next printer tho'. I print labels for my CD with a yellow background, and you wouldn't believe how much cyan and magenta I throw away.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 03:00 PM

It's pretty tough to find a reasonably priced printer that doesn't use 3-color ink cartridges for the color.

If you're in the market for a new one, some investigation of printer makers' "coding" of cartridges may be in order. Many of the newer printers include a chip in each cartridge that "turns it off" when the chip decides you've used enough ink. The chip has to be reprogrammed in order to be refilled, and the makers are making it increasingly complicated for refillers to do the necessary reprogramming.

An additional possible concern, thus far not fully evaluated, is Hewlett Packard's announcement of "regionalized cartridges," which will use the chips to verify that you bought your ink "in the market where you got your printer." Reportedly, "they" can reprogram your printer if you move, but the apparent intent is to prevent people from using "imported" inks -i.e to kill internet sales by anyone but HP. Whie it's obviously just another bit of "price fixing," other makers may be expected to jump on if it works.

After five consecutive HP printers, all of which have given excellent service, this may be the thing that makes me buy something different. (If I can just figure out which scams the others are using.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 09:53 PM

Ah - will have to let the ACCC here know about that - such 'regionalised' practices here have been ruled by the courts to be uncompetitive, causing a 'cartel' type practice of inflating prices.

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 10:45 PM

Foolestroupe -

There's been little released about the "regionalized ink" plan, and HP is ...I think the term is "weasely" about it. No editorial comment I've seen has been favorable, but most admit that the plan is so ill-defined that it's hard to tell...

It certainly looks like price-fixing to me, at least at this point. HP refers, in one vague release, to "price stabilization," whatever that means.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 01:53 PM

John's comment about pricing lead me to flip through a catalogue that came in this morning's paper. Prices for multiple cartridge printers are down. Looking at printers, Epson has a 6-cartridge Stylus Photo printer for $269 Canadian (under $220 US) and an 8-ink for $500 Can. HP has a 6-color for $229 Can. and an 8-ink for $299. Canon has an 8-color photo printer for $480 Can.

Of course, we can dream about something like the Epson Pro 4000, which handles roll or cut sheet up to 17-inch wide, etc. Only $2500 Can.! And 12 months to pay!

Fine print- "Price does not include Alberta Electronics Recycling Environmental Levy."

Subject: RE: Tech: Epson C84 printer colo(u)rs
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 03:44 PM

Depending on your requirements, you can get inkjet printers, from "major makers" for as little as about $60 (US) in my area. The really cheap ones may have quite limited flexibility, and typically will eventually cost quite a bit more in ink than some of the more sophisticated ones. The absolute cheapest ones my only print "snapshot" size photos, and you can probably find one of those for less than $50 if you shop around.

While it's probably a convenience to the occasional users, the multi-color cartridges are a real p.i.a., since once you use up one of the colors you throw the whole thing out. Most printers in retail shops assume that you'll print an occassional few snapshots, and larger cartridges might dry out in the printer in this usage, so it's not too bad a deal for the use that's assumed.

My "good" printer was an HP CP1700, about a $400 unit. Four-color, with separate (39 ml each) cartridges for each color, feeds up to 13 x 19 inch sheets and prints full 11 x 17 printable area. It unfortunately succumbed to a "design fault" that rips the carriage ribbon cable up, and the only sevice available involves shipping back to "authorized service facilities" at a minimum fee that's only about 5% less than the cost of a new printer.

One "disadvantage" of the separate color cartridges is that the print heads are NOT built into the cartridge, so start up requires 4 print heads at about $40 each, plus 4 ink cartridges at $40 each, or about $320 total. (About the price of the printer.) The first set of print heads outlasted about 80 ink cartridges though, and were still in good shape when the ribbon came unglued.

The only "direct replacement" available locally was an HP Deskjet 9650. It feeds the same 13 x 19 inch sheets, but uses a black cartridge (13 ml) and a tri-color (13 ml total) for 4-color printing. Since the one 4 ml color that gets used the most will always run out almost as fast as you can load them, the cheaper (about $18 US) cartridges don't save much.

The 9650 does allow you to replace the black cartridge with a second "photo tri-color" to get 6-color printing, but a fresh set of two (about $42, since the "photo" ink is little more expensive) tri-color cartridges would be unlikely to give you more than about 5 or 6 11 x 17 "photos" (you'd probably print actual 11 x 14 or so) before at least one color is used up.

Either of the above two will run about $300 - $400 US, depending on where you get them. Both are "good" printers, but I'd really like my CP1700 back.

A small "personal" inkjet printer for "her," which we intend to use as the "camp printer," is an HP 1315xi, and has a built in scanner. It was a little less than $90, and was selected specifically because it uses the same ink cartridges as the 9650. (It can also use alternate "small" ink cartridges - hardly worth installing.) The scanner offers ZERO in terms of flexibility. You lay something on it, press the button, and take what comes out. Unlike the 9650, which can be run "black only" the 1315 requires you to have both cartridges in or it won't print at all. The option of being able to print with a single (black) cartridge might be important if looking for a printer for general office use.

If you don't need color, or do a lot of b/w printing, the cheaper "consumables" make it stupid not to have a laser printer. While some inkjets offer more economical b/w printing than the ones I've got, there's just no comparison in print costs between inkjet and laser. We currently use an HP 1200, but there are newer ones less expensive. Even though a toner cartridge is about $70, a toner cartridge will run "almost forever" in a home office, while you'll be putting ink in the inkjet at least monthly - or worse - if you print 30 pages a week.

You shouldn't consider an inkjet printer a "permanent" machine either. In occasional to moderate use, they're usually designed to about 2 year "wearout." A moderately priced laserjet will usually run for 10 years or more. (Our previous one went about 14 years, in moderately heavy use.)

John