HI Max: What about Shambles requests?

Subject: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: harpgirl
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 08:35 PM

So Max, since no one else seems willing to pull back the curtain and take a look at your cute butt, what do you really have to say about Shambles complaints? Would you just respond already, so we can go on to some other way of exercising our dark impulses?

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Amos
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 08:42 PM

I'm gonna exercise mine by analyzing every post Harpie ever made and correlating them against psychological profies I gather from the Internet in places like www.stars_impel-dot-org. Mwhahahaha.....

A

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: bobad
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 08:43 PM

Did you mean to say exorcising?

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:17 PM

Move to BS, please.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Janie
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:32 PM

Who cares? Not me.

Janie

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:35 PM

I don't care what you say, I think it's outrageous to subject hamsters to that sort of treatment. They don't like water! I am unalterably opposed to the whole thing, and I refuse to mollycoddle people who try to justify it by saying it's just clean fun!

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 11:57 PM

oh, all we need is for Max to get into ***explaining*** his policies to Shambles! NOT!

You think there are long, tedious threads now!?

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 01:12 AM

Well, actually, I think Max' policies are pretty clear, aren't they? Joe manages the threads, with the help of the clones; Jeff manages the new code and tricky Java and such, and Max keeps the system up, makes the high-level calls he has to, does the re-booting and deep debugging and mostly trusts the judgement of the rest. All of these guys are producers of lots of lumiere and blow no horns. Their ratio of productive contributions to noise is the highest in the community, possibly excepting Masako and his kindred scholars.

What's not to know about it?


A

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 05:20 AM

Oh boy!!! Shambles is going to love this, someone else doing his bitching for him.
G..

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 06:03 AM

I am eating yum-yums from Couplands in Barton.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 06:11 AM

Living off the fat of the land as usual Greg?
G..

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 06:13 AM

harpy, I suspect you will learn a lot about Mudcat in this thread.

There will be rather more sensitivity here towards Max being asked to Joe and others being accused over something only Max can clarify.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 06:22 AM

I wish I knew what everyone was talking about....

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 08:39 AM

Just think ingratitude, and biting the hand that feeds you Lynne.
If it wasn't playing into the hands of the conspiracy theorists I'd suggest either closing this superfluous thread or amalgamating it with Shambles long moan about someone editing his lustrous posts.
Giok

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 08:42 AM

The 400 + posts in this thread may help explain the problem - as to the solution - you will find very few post in that thread that address the issue let alone many that offer any solution. Well none that are physically possible.

In the UK.....?

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 08:58 AM

Lynne, read the initial post and Joe Offer's official answer as Lead Clone...which is about post #120. All of the rest are repetitive, derisive and/or basically unnecessary...including a few from me.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:03 AM

The way I see it Lynne is that for 4 or more years, shambles has had it, in spite of others poiting out how unlikely it is that Joe Offer and his evil empire are destryoing Max's dream by acting against his wishes. Shambles refuses to ask Max if this is true but someone else now has.

My other post porbably relates to art's comments as well as any other. Max might be seen has the hand that feeds them but the concept that the hands that feed Max by doing duties for him is that touch harder to grasp.

To some, clones are fair game.

I suppose the question really hinges on whether you as a manager would stand by for 4 years and watch your employess get call liars.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:17 AM

I couldn't get anyone in the medical community to take me seriously when I brought my imaginary playmate Robert in with a broken collarbone. Some of the nurses would agree to see him, but they were just laughing and lying. Even I could see through that much! No-one would take X-Rays, because they said they wouldn't show anything up on an imaginary playmate. No-one would bandage him because they didn't know where to put the bandages. He was in a lot of pain, I could feel that even though he was being brave, and there was just no help to be had.

I told him he would have to sleep it off, even though I was not especially sure what that meant. It was something my mother used to tell my father to do, so I guessed it might work.

Robert got better after a few days; I thik his kind heal faster than we do. Sometimes I wish I could use the same therapy on people who are not imaginary.

Amos

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: MMario
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:20 AM

I still maintain that in this case silence is the best answer. His actions support the clones - and NO response is going to satisy The Shambles in any case. Plus, since Max has requested that questions of this type be conducted off the main forum - his responding here could be seen as "giving in"

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:41 AM

Do non-problems need real solutions?

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:43 AM

Harp. Harp. Harp.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:50 AM

Amos, they refused to X-ray Robert because no one would be billable.

~S~

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:54 AM

Fuck the lot of you. Max needs to deal with this. This place is sick.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From:
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:57 AM

Harpgirl...if you feel that way why do you hang around?

Mudcat is fine the way it is. The majority of people accept the way it is run and are happy with it and support Max and Joe's decisions. There is no need to be foul mouthed and hurl abuse. You are just lowering yourself. Get over it.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 10:09 AM

Harpy:

You didn't answer my question. Ya gonna wave your arms and storm off now?

A

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 10:31 AM

Damn right it's sick. Any place where a majority of the members support the notion of strapping a poor little hamster into a tiny straitjacket and dragging him (or her) around a cold, slimy pond behind a noisy, fume-spewing radio-controlled speedboat is SICK! Beyond the pale! This place should be shut down permanently.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 10:53 AM

LH, you are greatly confused, as has been previously shown by your expressed preference in "actors." That is not a straitjacket, it is a lifejacket, and its use is generally required in all inland waters deeper than six (6) inches.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 10:55 AM

What about when they got little Hammy up in a balloon? No wonder they needed so many doubles!

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:03 AM

Yawn

Jerry

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:04 AM

LH... On behalf of People against the Inhumane Treatment of Hampsters, thank you for standing up for our furry friends. PITH on them.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:08 AM

Damn right. And that's to say nothing of the playground rocket launchings. Shocking! Unconscionable!

Look, I tried to read one of Shambles' threads about the forum way back when, I really did. I plowed through the acres of verbiage, searching for a reason for it all, a justification, a cause...

It was like chewing on a large piece of rubber and waiting for it to dissolve in your mouth. Useless.

That's why I would rather save the hamsters.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:18 AM

let me say it differently. It hurts my heart to see the Shambles versus clones and their supporters hurl abuse at one another with no end to it. I hurt when I see unsolved problems make people be mean to each other. I hurt when I see people's sadism stirred up by people's masochism. I hurt. I don't like it.

People I want to like and admire say cruel things to one another. I hurt when people gang up on one another. I hurt when no one does anything about it. And look here, no one has said anything sensitive to me. Just made jokes, told me to go away, or insisted that they know what the "majority" thinks. It's even hardened Jerry Rasmussen's heart. Even he is sarcastic.

What's wrong with this picture? Max, what's wrong with this picture?

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: MMario
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:31 AM

Perhaps if you said something other then what renders essentially as:

"Everyone is mean to me"

and "FUCK YOU!"

which recently seems to be your two major themes.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:33 AM

I don't think any of us are empowered to really deal with the situation, harpgirl. Are we? Seems to me that Max runs the forum as he wants to, so if you or Shambles feel a change would be good, then you simply have to talk to Max directly about it, I would think. And see what happens.

I came here in all innocence a few years ago, and was initially shocked and rather hurt to be treated as a "troll", because I was a "Guest" poster. Accordingly, I got a membership. Then I went through the various stages of surprise at how mean some people could be here...which I wasn't prepared for. Then I got used to it, and learned how to let it wash off me like water off a duck. I just don't take it all that seriously anymore. People don't owe it to me to meet MY expectations.

This turned out to be good for training me in many things:

1. How not to become a target for people.
2. How not to let people upset and control me.
3. How not to develop and hold grudges.
4. How to like people even IF they are not nice all the time.
5. How to listen to people who are not "nice".
6. How to get along with people who are not inclined to get along.
7. How to find humor in my own and other people's frailties.

And so on...

This place is tough, but it's quite a training ground in interpersonal dynamics. When you have real trouble getting along with a particular person here, I think the best thing to do is PM them and see if you can straighten it out privately. It's not a good idea to fight tooth and nail with them in front of the whole forum, unless you do it tongue in cheek. I often do that with some of my most worthy opponents here, just for fun.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 12:04 PM

Problem Harpy, WHAT PROBLEM? There is no problem except in the fevered imagination of our own pet monomaniac Shambles, and boy have we wasted an awful lot of time on these imaginary ubermeisters.
G..

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 12:09 PM

What makes you think that this is a resolveable problem, Harpgirl? We've already had endless threads on this, one alone going over 1,000 posts. How many thousand posts do you want before you accept that threads are not going to bring a resolution to what on many levels seems a non-problem to begin with? No, my heart isn't hardened.. I just don't see any sense in endlessly chewing an old bone.

Jerry

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 12:24 PM

Harp,

I hear ya, and it is unpleasant, I agree; for my own part, i retreated into humor after about ten attempts to communicate what I thought was reasonably with Shambo; he would have none of it. It was like trying to offer an explanation to a clunky transmission, with the result that it jes' keeps on clunking. In other words, talking to a machine. When a machineposes as a human, no-one is fooled.   It's harder to see through the reverse scenario, when a human is taken over by an endless loop of mechanical churning into which understanding cannot be allowed.

Now, it may not look like it, but this refusal to dialogue, this deluging of communication lines with no-communication, to me is not just some hurting unit trying to be understood. Rather it is either some kind of OCD or it is just plain passive aggression.

While I agree we should not be mean to each other, I would simply point out that there are lots of ways to be mean. Given that no middle ground appears as viable in Shambo's universe, he places himself, repeatedly and voluntarily, in an endless posture of adversarial windage and kind of forces folks to side with him or with the Joe-and-the-clones team.

The only way to resolve this sort of quandary is to assess the real values demonstrated by the proponents and compare them to your own purposes and values. To me Joe and the clones have added several hundred times the value that Shambles has, even though I have enjoyed Roger's posts from time to time on other subjects. So, since I am forced to make a choice, by reason of Sham's Corian-hided obstinacy, will retreat into humor which will at least make this silly business less tedious.

Hope this is clear, and I hope it helps, actually. I bear no ill-will to any of these participants. But Roger's issue has been raised and answered a score of times and he will not be concise, will not make clear proposals, and will not stop maundering about no matter what is said to him. Every answer is anopportunity for another five thousand words which end up exactly where they began.

So my question to you is this. 1. Is there a specific request you are aware of that Shambles is making that has not already been answered?

If so, can you state it in less than 25 words?

If it is that "all edits to any threads should only occur with the permission of the poster", that has already been asked and answered.

The answer, to put it in other words, was "The right to occasionally edit threads for clarity or to remedy violations of common standards shall be reserved to the judgement of Max and his delegates, who are at this time Joe Offer and his appointed clones, who are entrusted with making the necessary judgements for the common good."

And that is the answer, and it hasn't changed.

Am I missing something, really?

A

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 12:28 PM

" It hurts my heart to see the Shambles versus clones and their supporters hurl abuse at one another"

Then stop reading those threads...

"I hurt. I don't like it"
Awwww... poor little muffin...

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 12:50 PM

Jerry

What make you think this problem is not resolvable. What I think is lacking is our will to resolve it and to carry on passing meanless personal judgements on each other (whether we have the power to impose these judgements or not). This forum has always been for public discussion and open debate - not judgement of a posters personal worth - by fellow posters.

Some seem to think that Max has the solution. I think that the solution is with all of us.

Whatever side you may feel you are forced into taking - THE PROBLEM is the FACT that there is all this DIVISION on our forum......Do you really think that all of this DIVISION is a non-problem and it will just go away if you think nice thoughts and keep your head in the sand long enough?

Do you really think it acceptable for moderators or representitives of the site's owner to mount public personal attacks upon fellow posters, isolate their postings for selective imposition, taunt, bully, call them names and encourage others to do this?

And even if you do think this behaviour is now acceptable on our forum and continue to openly side with this - would you be too surprised if others did not agree and would you accept that this disagreement might be a problem that may divide us - and for little or no reason? Or is this DIVISION a 'non-problem'?

This DIVISION remains a fact that sadly is only going to get worse - if it is not addressed and resolved to ensure that all posters can once again contribute on equal terms on our forum.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 01:02 PM

And theyyyyy're OFFF!


A

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Janie
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 01:04 PM

THIS IS A TEST. IT IS ONLY A TEST.

I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M TESTING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TESTING. I DON'T KNOW WHO I'M TESTING. I MUST BE BORED TO POST TO THIS AGAIN AT ALL.

THIS IS A TEST. THIS IS ONLY A TEST.

Harpgirl,

Reread your own opening post. It seems you were assuming since YOU feel like you need to hear from Max on this, that many more of us also have that need. Me not pulling back the curtain to look at Max's "cute little butt" as you put it, has nothing to do with willingness. I just don't want to. The Shambles ramblings do not stir or conjure any "dark impulses" in me. And if they did, that would be my issue to deal with, not Max's.

I expressed that, succinctly and non-abusively. I did not tell you to fuck off for making the mistake of acting as if you might be speaking for me. Who is hurling abuse at whom?

I would join the SAVE THE HAMSTERS movement, but the little rodents cannibalize their own children--they deserve what they get (evil laughter.)

Janie

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: GUEST,Yawn
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 01:11 PM

It was like chewing on a large piece of rubber and waiting for it to dissolve in your mouth. Useless.

LOL LOL LOL - love that one LH!



What make you think this problem is not resolvable

Shambles, you are pretending to be very logical about this, and you think you can slip a little assumption of yours past us and we won't notice.

THERE IS NO PROBLEM!

NOTHING NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED!

Now why don't you be a good boy, run along and find something to do - like pull the wings off a few flies.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:32 PM

(Don Quixote levels his lace and charges yet again at the offending structure)

Little Boy: Mommy, why is that crazy man bashing away at our windmill?

Mother: We're not sure. I guess he thinks it's the right and noble thing to do.

Little Boy: But where are we supposed to get our flour?

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:36 PM

Divisions are caused by divisive people.
G..

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: bobad
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:39 PM

No wonder Don Quixote never got anywhere - attacking those windmills with his lace.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:39 PM

Me so cricetus au rat us.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:48 PM

Clinton's right. An EDIT feature would be so nice.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:51 PM

Gnu, whatever do you MEAN?????


A

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:57 PM

Oops. Mesocricetus auratus, of the family Cricetinae. So much Jaysus Cricetinae? I knew there was some kinda divine intention to this here hamster thread.

Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests?
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 03:00 PM

Would that be the same hamster that is getting pretty long in the tooth and keeps pooping out on the wheel that keeps Mudcat running?

Explains a lot.