BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 08:03 AM

LIzzie, when will you learn ? nobody reads threads lomger than one page.

I used to think you were just eccentric and had some sympathy but now it seems like you are being deliberately annoying, or you have completely lost your marbles.

eric

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 07:12 AM

The early threads have gone but this is from the start of the new BBC system.

this

Lizzie had been banned from the board but found a way back in under the new system as it used a different membership system and having got back, she was allowed to stay.

Lizzie, being the troll she is, used her fresh start by posting under a range of names (this one being "naughty lizzie") and opens with limericks on the very subjects that had been causing the rows between her and Diane.

It was pure baiting and it carried on.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 06:49 AM

ByeBye

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:36 PM

Right...and here IS the explanation. First of all, the post, one above this was sent in error...I meant to press 'Blue Clicky' but it's right underneath 'submit' so.....I sent it in error....didn't actually mean to include all those threads, I just put some of them down and did the connections, then I was going to sort out one or two and post...but no matter...too late now.

So...in answer to Diane Easby's post above (countess richard) Firstly, I'm surprised I have to even explain this one at all. Yes, I have a Myspace page, and I am permitted to have one. Now, I realise that this is incredibly irritating for Bullies R Us, as they can't actually 'get' to me over there! So....I guess the next best thing is to do it in here instead....obviously Diane's new angle is to twist my Myspace page.

It won't work Diane.

My page is not about me. That is the whole point! I didn't ever want it to be about me. IT IS ABOUT THE MUSIC AND THE MUSICIANS.....and the power they have....as I have explained in full here:

http://www.myspace.com/lizziecornish   

Liam, above, is quite correct, I *have* put in many links to musicians who are not yet in Myspace, as I wanted to give them a 'voice' amongst the 85 million people who are already in there.
Of course I don't know 670 musicians personally, but that is not what it is about at all. My 'harvest' is now being spread all around the world. Just as I am finding out about music in Senegal or Russia, they are now finding out about music over here...that is how Myspace works and it is wonderful! I want to give a 'voice' to as many great musicians as I can, nothing more, nothing less.

MY page is about 'spreading the word' and that is all. I KNOW, because I have access to the amount of viewings that I get on there, that my page, as I'm sure many others in Myspace are, is now being viewed by dozens of people on a daily basis. I'm up to 1,985 viewings as of a few seconds ago, but you're going to have to take my word for that I'm afraid. Musicans have their viewings on their front page....the rest of us do not, it is on out 'Home' page.

'Spreading the word' is ALL I have EVER been about Diane. But I chose to do it with humour, love and many words. I really do love this music, with a passion....yet YOU have all decided that I don't...Don't ask *me* why...ask *yourselves* It makes no sense at all to me I'm afraid.

I'd like to know why Fiona took it upon herself to behave as she did, WHY she changed from someone who I had always had a pleasant natter to now and again, she didn't used to post very often, to the flaming, fearsome witch-hunter that she became. But...in reality, it doesn't really matter at all. It's all over now, to quote The Stones......

And far from disrupting anything Diane......no that is so wrong, as you know....time and again any thread I started was deliberately ruined, by the usual suspects. The evidence is all on the BBC boards, this is NOT something that has taken place in private, this has all happened out in the open, where it can be tracked back.

And far from being a troll, I have written thousands of words and started dozens of threads, about a huge variety of artists, radio stations, dancers, festivals etc...all to try and give support and information. Just last year on here I fought a long and bloody verbal battle for Sidmouth to continue. You and your friends wanted it ruined and you did everything you could to try and achieve that.   It opened my eyes to what you are really about....it opened my eyes to many of you.....and all I wanted to do was keep shouting out about Sidmouth, whilst you put it down at every turn.

Sidmouth was and still is HUGELY important in many people's lives. It is now going from strength to strength once more, the people who fought so hard to keep it going last year, had to do so under tremendous pressure, and it wasn't helped by the outright nastiness that you and your gang spewed over various boards, twisting, spinning,lying, creating doubt and negativity at every turn....utterly appalling. And it is ONLY because of that team of people, their hard work and dedication, and that alone, that has enabled YOU to decide that you are now coming to Sidmouth this year, although how you can even dare to show your face, I don't know. For without them there may well have been no Sidmouth, *ever* again!

And if you want to know how I KNOW that they read things that were being said, your words, Stephen Wozniak's words and many other 'hoodies' well and how it upset them, well I'll tell you. My husband was on the committee last year for Sidmouth....this year he is one of the directors, not a grand title, there are many directors of Sidmouth, but I'm aware of a lot that went on, from the inside out, just as I am this year.

Not bad for 'a troll' eh?

My feelings about last year, the rows, the bitterness, the hope and finally the love and support from many kind people on Mudcat for Sidmouth, resulted in the link below. It was NOT done, as I'm sure you and Fiona have 'decided' amongst your bitter selves, for me to become a Messageboard Megastar at all, but purely because *something* DROVE me to do it. It was almost as if the festival itself wanted to shout out "HERE I AM....YOU DIDN'T KILL ME OFF!"...and so..I just helped Sidmouth Folk Week to have a voice:

Live From Sidmouth:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=721249

Every day I scuttled back here to the computer to put it all on the board, because I had been so deeply upset at the whole appalling fiasco......And then YOU and YOUR GANG *dare* to tell me that I do not love this music?

I feel nothing anymore for any of you. Not hatred, not anger, not disgust, just a complete and utter void. You are all of no consequence or meaning to me anymore, whatsoever.

You do not love this music as I do, you merely use it to abuse, belittle and bully. But, it is your freedom to do that...and so I will leave you to it. I hope you will all be very happy together on your new fun and lively board. I wish you all well.

And now, from my point of view, there is nothing further I want to say in here....but I'm sure you have more venom to spit out, so....I will let you do just that.


Many thanks


Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:00 PM

This is a good one, from the board host to Lizzie even:

Hi Lizzie. Please could you heed the pleas of all who enjoy your enthusiasm but are feeling swamped by your continuing mega-essays. Overlong messages dominate the board, discourage debate and just plain put people off. Setting up your own blog has been suggested several times and is a great idea. We understand you want to alert others to music that enthralls you, and that's what this board is all about - but the F&A board seems to be turning into Lizzie's Diary, so a bit of restraint would be much appreciated.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:57 PM

and you're doing it again here

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:54 PM

Just read the first thread. As far as I can see that while I was frustrated by that time I was still overall trying to reason with you.

Whatever, Lizzie, please explain how come you ran into very similar problems on a different board with almost an entirely (and I know I for one was not there) different set of people within a week?

How did this campaign against you happen and transfer in the absence of the plotters?

Truth is Lizzie, you pissed 2 different sets of people off.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:45 PM

Please don't bother

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:35 PM

Woops....pressed the wrong button! Back in a minute!! Disregard the post above until there's an explanation!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:35 PM

The Freedom and Dictators thread:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=2571927

Martyn Joseph:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=1668197

Musicians and Dyslexia:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=1309159

Holy Books & Judges:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=1213827

George Papavgeris 'Anytown':
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=1093442

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:28 PM

Countess.
Have to agree. I use message boards as a resource, to find information, and as a sideline, discover the whereabouts of people that I've lost touch with over he years.
I've never knowingly heard Show of Hands, Seth Lakeman et al. and, after the huge amount of verbiage from a certain person, I don't think that I'd want to. (probably lovely people, I'm sure)
Regards

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:27 PM

LC judges performers not by their musical ability (how could she?) but by: (a) whether she fancies them (obviously), or (b) whether or not they've had the temerity to speak out even ever so mildly against her most ludicrously embarrassing, wholly off-topic, inane excesses that threaten their credibility and careers. If they haven't (to her knowledge), she harvests them by clicking on their MySpace link, if they have one. She doesn't actually know any of these performers, plucked randomly from anywhere, nor have I actually come across any who know her, that I believe anyway. Indeed I remain convinced that she is merely a random spam generator, a program and not a person.

So, this cyber-worm, this trolling virus, starts up flaming conflicts (involving - yeah, hands up - some of us who should know better) which preclude immediately rational discussion about music, which was what we (but not she) were there to do. She's wrecked threads about tunings, copyright, dance and song origins because she finds them boring because they're not about her and her latest fad, or writing songs which reflect her dubious take on the week's social issue.

Usenet used to have the facility of 'killfile and move on'. How DO you assassinate a troll nowadys?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Liam
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:24 PM

>>anything that's not acoustic pop is English trad, so much so that any performer of such material that she once said she liked has now been banished from her MySpace page

That page of Lizzie's has around 670 Friends links on it, so I'm not sure anyone has been "banished". There are a whole load of links up the side to various decent artists without MySpace pages yet as well. If I were in her shoes I would pay far more attention to the 110 pleasant comments from folks on that page and not worry very about some of the less pleasant remarks made here or in certain other places.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:05 PM

Aw your all upset now, Lizzie. The problem is yours my dear.

One good thing with Mudcat is that there are many threads and as much of what you say is of little interest to me, our paths shouldn't cross often.

(In fact looking back - I see in fact that you first started in 2005 and our paths have hardly crossed here - quite a different reality to me following you around and having a desire to persecute you isn't it?)

But don't start a thread pretty well guaranteed (although I should know better and ignore trolls) to draw me in and then complain about my presence.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:53 PM

Jon, I suggest YOU avoid ME like the plague!!

That way....you'll be much happier...or not...as the case may be..but I really couldn't give a damn either way after how you have behaved!!

Go and swoon over Stinkerbell....and then you and she can have a Lizzie IS a Troll Party and live happily ever after!

Thank you!!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:50 PM

And Sweetums!!! For your limited brain!!!!!!!!

I've had Tom Bliss playing all day!! I change my page and music almost EVERY day and on there you'll find a whole WORLD of music!! ONE MUSIC!!!

Because Myspace has opened up my mind in a way that the NARROW-MINDED, IDIOTIC, OBSESSIONAL, UNPLEASANT F&A board NEVER did!!!! And I will never want to talk about British music alone, ever again...as THE WHOLE WORLD MATTERS!!!!!

Tom Bliss is AS important as Vinnie James and Vinnie James is AS important as John Trudell, who in turn is AS important as Ayub Ogada, and Ayub is as important as Sofiane Saidi, who is AS important as Duncan McFarlane who is as important as Johnny Whitehorse...and Johnny is as important as George Papavgeris etc...etc..etc....!!!!!!

And it's MY Myspace page so just you ******* off and leave IT and ME alone!!!!!!

And YES...my Knickers are STILL ON..but any minute now, I will be whipping them off and plonking them over YOUR head!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you SO much!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:46 PM

Lizzie, you start an inflamitory thread opening with the suggestion that folk and accoustic music can only be started on one board, etc. and reffering to a pathetic gang... in another board I use and you wonder why I'm involved it this thread??????

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:39 PM

I wasn't talking about Mudcat..I was talking about WHY, if you loathe *ME* my postings and my threads SO much....are you in HERE....arguing with me and calling me names in the first place!

THINK about it Jon!

Seems to me that you've all been doing it for so long that you simply can't stop!

Here...go kick this around instead! It's far more healthy!!!

http://tell.fll.purdue.edu/JapanProj/FLClipart/Nouns/Sports/football.gif

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:37 PM

And I've been a Mudcat member for three years and an occasional guest since 2001. I know Faerie Fiona personally and she neither smells nor jingles. And, oi Cornish, have you put those knickers back on yet? It's the draught, y'know, that confuses her and makes her think anything that's not acoustic pop is English trad, so much so that any performer of such material that she once said she liked has now been banished from her MySpace page.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:12 PM

You know what really fascinates me is WHY, when you all now have the board you have *always* wanted, you are STILL following me around

Lizzie, I've been around Mudcat since late 1999. I don't think you can make a case for me following you here either.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:10 PM

Oh so sorry Jon.....

Please hurl away with yet more abuse then....


You know what really fascinates me is WHY, when you all now have the board you have *always* wanted, you are STILL following me around hurling abuse??????????????????????????


Why don't you ALL ******** off to the F&A board and yatter to each other about banjo chords for one fingered banjo players or discuss Holy Grails with The Artist Formerly Known As Fiona nic, now known as Faerie Nuff.....or as I've heard her called in some circles...'Stinkerbell'

I'm sure you'll all enjoy it much more!


Thank you so much!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

And DO NOT tell me what I CAN or CANNOT talk about on THIS board please

That's quite rich from someone who opens threads with comments like. And could it please be possible for any of the Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang Of Pathetic Suspects' to not come on this thread to hurl their usual 'She's A Troll!' abuse at me.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:49 AM

I completely foiled what, in my view, was an attempt to take over that board and just use it for discussion on English Traditional Folk Music

Wow Lizzie, your fantasies get worse, not only have you suggested that I who once tried to defend you (but also tried to resaon with you~) was involved in some sort of plot. I see it now was to turn the board soley to English Traditional Folk Music.

I can assure you that if such an attempt had ever been made, I would have been fighting it. It's quite well known in most places that my first love in this "folk music scene" is Irish dance music.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:29 AM

Hey Pete, do you want to borrow my shitptoof umbrella?
And Ms Cornish, put your knickers back on immediately . . .

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:08 AM

What a pleasant post Peter. Thank you so much.

I can assure you however, that despite being told I can have complete freedom back in a few days, I will not ever be returning to the BBC boards again. The ONLY reason that this decision was taken, in my view, is that I said I was going to the papers about all this. Up until that moment, I had not heard any answers to my questions. As you say, a sudden decision, but hardly strange, under the circumstances I think.

It is SO easy to sit and preach about what you should or shouldn't do isn't it Peter? Especially when YOU are merely sitting there reading/enjoying it all. However, when you are the very subject of such personal verbal abuse, it is a *very* different case I'm afraid.
Yes, we did once have 'fun' posts, right at the beginning, why you even sent me your CD, but then....things got bad, mainly because I just wouldn't go away! I completely foiled what, in my view, was an attempt to take over that board and just use it for discussion on English Traditional Folk Music and nothing else. And so...I became the 'fun football' to be kicked around the board, from English Traditioal poster to English Traditional poster...round and round they all went "Wheeeeeeeee!" Didn't they all have a great time!

But, what you have said above is no different from a teacher saying to a child, "Look, we know this is happening, but really dear, it would be *so* much better for all of us, if you just took it on the chin dear...That way, we can all get on with our lives and not have to worry....So be a good girl and let them hit you, let them punch you, let them tell lies about you, let them abuse you....but please, dear...be good and don't try and fight them! Oh yes, and be an even sweeter dear and stop talking about things that incense them...in fact dear, it's probably best if you just don't talk at all. Yes, I think that might be the best dear...because you see, if you don't talk *at all* then we can all have a lovely life and everything will be rosy again"

Well ****** *THAT* for a game of soldiers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you SERIOUSLY think that I have no feelings Peter??? Have you or others EVER stopped, for one second, to EVER think how *any* of this has really made me feel???

Well, it seems to me that you at least were far too damned busy siding along with Jon during Bullying Fortnight on the F&A board, when a torrent of abuse poured down on me from a gang of 'hoodies' and not one person from the BBC came on to stop it!

WHERE WERE YOU during that time Peter???

You talk to me of 'loyalty and support' REALLY??????????????? So where were you when Fiona started her 'That woman is a Troll and I WILL make everyone believe it!" campaign? so long ago, and which she has continues to this day! (God alone knows why though!!!!)

Loyalty? Support? Hah!

I was one person who dared to challenge you all. ONE person against MANY! It was totally, utterly, completely wrong and deeply shameful.....but NEVER did I start any of it!

SO...I suggest that you take your words to the very people who WERE responsible for it all in the *first* place!! Over and over, the whole gang stick fast together in telling ME things, yet none of YOU ever look in the mirror.....Go and preach to the *very people* who started it all Peter....but please DO NOT preach to me!!!

I have no time for lily-livered people who turn away, when something SO wrong is happening! There are far too many of them around in this world at present!! If something is WRONG then I will damn well stand up and say it!!!!

And as for this pompous statement:

>>The prospect of your return will certainly mean that my decision to no longer participate in a board that once was fun and informative will hold.<<

I can assure you that I would NEVER, *EVER* choose to share one centimetre of that board, with you or any of your pals **ever** again!!!! So, I suggest you go back to your FUN and INFORMATIVE board as quickly as you possibly can.

Because the 'glowing' lengthy posts will glow no more, you now have a wondrously 'grey' board again...No Smilies, Meg Ryan or otherwise, No Swooning, No Smooching, No Giggles, No Chuckles, no Winks, No Sidmouth, No Beautiful Days, No Dartmoor, No talking of Artists anymore, No Folkwaves, No Radio Britfolk, just thread after thread on 'Cambridge and Cremations'.....and not even a 'Board Fun Football' any more.....

Excellent!!

And DO NOT tell me what I CAN or CANNOT talk about on THIS board please, because that ONLY works on the BBC where others rights to abuse/disrupt/belittle and/or humiliate me is *wholly* permitted, but my right to reply is apparently *wholly* curtailed!!

Again, thank you so much for your post.....and now, if you'll excuse me I'm just off to put my Eleanor Roosevelt Knickers on once more:

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent"

Ahh...that's better!

And...NOT A *SINGLE* ONE OF YOU WILL ***EVER*** HAVE MY PERMISSION AGAIN!!


Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 07:03 AM

It is not true that Lizzie is the only one being put in pre mod, or banned, it is also not true that some of the players were not chided either by the F&A host or by fellow participants.

It strikes me that going from pre-mod, to a ban for the rest of the week and then to be given unfettered access the following week is at either lenient or incomprehensible.

Finally, don't go on about "making lists about songs for cremations". There are some raw nerves that could be touched here. One of the most touching cremations I have ever been to was of a person who organised a folk club, was the driving force behind it, gave advice and lessons to people keen to learn an instrument and gave many unkown artists a break. His death was sudden and unexpected and in closing days left his treasured instruments to several people in the club, left legacies to protect the future of the club and others that he loved visiting and another to an organisation that is devoted to helping musicians improve so that a young person can be sponsored. His secular funeral included songs by his close friends from the club and recordings of him playing his beloved blues and rag and in the evening a session/wake to celebrate his life.

When I joined the F&A board, I supported and respected your posts despite not sharing your tastes, I even supported you in private with those who you consider your detractors. However, despite the fact you got at times an unfair ride, it was not wise to try and fight fire with fire or to be as equally sarcastic or cynical, it just sparked further trouble. As I said earlier, loyalty and support can wear thin and in the end I grew too tired of your bickering and the bickering of others. The prospect of your return will certainly mean that my decision to no longer participate in a board that once was fun and informative will hold.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:02 AM

The plight of artists which you are absolutely NOT allowed to raise at the BBC concerns the former Leader/Trailer catalogue, currently in the clutches of a Gollum-like creature in North Yorkshire. I have been told to keep my mouth shut about Celtic Music/Music By Mail and its associated distributors/shamefaced collaborators far more times than anybody else has been censored for SoH/Lakeperson over-abuse.

Because the BBC continues to carry ads for this nasty little, wholly unethical outfit on its F&A page, I don't find it at all difficult to fathom why they behave as they do. Like it or not, the BBC which we pay for is a business, obliged by Charter to conform to various guidelines and constraints with which we may or may not agree. Being harangued constantly by one person to operate a wholly unfeasible music policy, wrapped up in off-the-wall, Daily Mail-like social policy fantasies, is likely to get up their noses. Why LC is unable to see this remains a mystery.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:54 AM

Couple, lets say 3 or 4 posts.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:54 AM

Why am I getting a feeling of Deja-vu with the last couple of posts here?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:53 AM

Oh!.....and Diane....just one thing I forgot to say:

http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/AC/02/Nanapennypockets/36/481.jpg


And now...back to the topic of the thread.......(hopefully)....although I would say that this thread is probably now best left to sleep for a hundred years....or more!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:37 AM

Diane (countess)...I wonder if I could ask you a favour?

I know that your total, overwhelming obsession with Show of Hands is also one of your deep and over-riding passions, however, this thread *was* initially about the fact that you can talk about *certain* artists on the BBC Radio 2 Music Club board, yet not *others*, as *their* threads are being closed down without any explanations.

So....if you could just *stop* talking about Steve Knightley and Phil Beer for at least the next few posts, (although I fully appreciate that it will be hard for you to do this) in order that others are free to come on here and talk about the subject of this thread, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much.......

Although, I should add that I perfectly understand your frustration about NOT being able to talk about Show of Hands or Seth Lakeman on some BBC boards now, and I do realise that this request may prove difficult for such a devoted Show of Hands fan such as yourself...but I truly feel that it is time to let others have a say.....

Thanking you again....


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:48 AM

Oh well, have a bottle of Duvel, Blowzy, and try and get over how these Longdoggies have in the manner of Humpty Dumpty hijacked the term 'acoustic' to mean precisely the output of MOR, faded pub-rock, mid-Atlantic drawling, dishevelled duos (with PA natch).

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Blowzabella
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:25 AM

The moniker has nothing to do with the band Blowzabella - it has more to do with Thomas D'Urfey! For info I'm far from enamoured of 80s-stylee pub rock - I rarely listen to any music which isn't purely acoustic, in fact.

See how mistaken you can be by jumping to conclusions?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:43 PM

And do I hear aright? Someone claiming the moniker Blowzabella (a jolly fine band) seemingly enamoured of fading, 80s-stylee pub rock? Shurely shome mishtake . . .

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:23 PM

Milk is bad for cats. We don't like it. We'll have a G+T then a crate of Duvel (each). And another song to take the piss out of tedious trolls. And some music (though not from R2, obviously).

Radio Norway , that'll do.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Blowzabella
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:10 PM

Miaow is right - another saucer of milk for the Countess please.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:00 PM

Longdogs? Moi? Perish the thought. I can't abide dogs. Or dishevelled duos. Or SmoothOps. Feargal, Solomon and Arantxa agree. For the avoidance of any doubt, let me declare here and now that I've never been anywhere near Longdogs. As if. Miaow.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:57 PM

captainbirdseye - PM
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:41 PM

"Well done Lizzie ,at least you care about something, more important than punctuation and pedantry"





No more Captain Jack Sparrow, I am *done* with you!

For I have foresaken you for another!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/graphics/2005/09/17/cnuni17.jpg


Swoon!

:0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:48 PM

If that's what 'folks your boat' Diane, (countess) fair enough, but nope, strangely, it's not for me. However, I think there's a whole new TV series waiting to be written about the BBC Mods!

Good to see there's more than one Secret Show Of Hands fan in here though Diane eh? ;0) How is your subscription to Longdogs by the way? Are you still a fully fledged member these days, as you once were? Or do you just go in for the live chat now and again to 'jolly' things up?

Oh...and if you're coming to Abbotsbury...sadly..my rug (YES! I have..a...rug!)....is FULL. However I've heard that the sound is excellent from the middle of the lake in the Japanese Garden...

You could write about it on the BBC board afterwards....except they'd probably remove it...or close it down...but hey! **NOW** you can tell everyone about it on the Folky Music Club board as well..Ah! Er...except that they'd er...probably do the same thing....their only thread on their is STILL closed...and STILL no explanation!!

Oh...that reminds me....I got another e mail from the 'Official Complaints' people today, I was very impressed with it arriving on a Sunday and all! Finally I thought it would contain some answers..but er....it was just to say that they were sorry I was unhappy about their other letter, (you remember, the one that told me to write to the mods etc)....and perhaps I'd like to...altogether now...."WRITE TO THE MODS" (!!!!) YES!! We all know it off by heart now don't we!

**YOUR** BBC: Winners of The Worst Customer Care Award *ANYWHERE* *ANYTIME* (imo)

"The real test of any organisation is how it deals with complaints from the public." - Michael Grade BBC Chairman

And here it is:

>>>Dear Ms Cornish

Thank you for your further e-mail regarding the Radio 2 Music Club message board.

I understand that you continue to have concerns about moderation on the board.

As my colleague Paul Wheeler previously advised, if you feel you have been subjected to unfair moderation, you should contact the message board team directly via the following webform:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/messageboards/newguide/feedback_form.shtml

In the meantime, I would like to assure you that your further comments have been fully registered on our daily audience log. This internal document will be made available to bbc.co.uk and Senior BBC Management.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact the BBC.<<<


You **too** can have one of these utterly amazing, in-depth, 'we've looked at absolutely EVERYTHING in your letter and are aghast at what we have found..we are SO sorry' letters as well...ALL you have to do is make an official complaint to the BBC or the Mods...and the Mods will send you a similar letter, telling you to make an official complaint!!!

And if that wasn't enough to make you realise how much YOUR BBC cares you can also complain to Smooth Ops as well. Yes, all you have to do is press the link below then go to there 'Complaints' button, where you will be given further instructions, I tell you what though...I'll do it for you, here you are!:

http://www.smoothoperations.com/complaints.htm


Isn't it just WONDERFUL!

I suggested that he went over there himself and spoke to them....amongst other things!



Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: captainbirdseye
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:41 PM

Well done Lizzie ,at least you care about something, more important than punctuation and pedantry.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:20 PM

On good old UMF where it all was born, a killfile stopped their ranting scorn
Usenet rules aint used no more, what do you think we made them for?

Well, fortunately, good old umf is still going and I like usenet...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:00 PM

Aw, c'mon! Even if you think SoH's Country Life had any merit in the first place (which obviously I do not however mightily LC wields the sledgehammer), you have to admit that was a pretty damn good parody . . .

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:57 PM

Although, I should add, that it's great to see that even 'The Very Weird and Dark Ones' are now studying Show of Hands 'Country Life' in such depth!

I'll bet they know it even better than I do!!

YAY! You just can't keep the Best Banned Band In The Land down can you!!

Everyone loves 'em!!

;0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:53 PM

Oh....I've been eccentric for ages Dave..no worries!! ;0)

Although I think I may be getting worse, with the glitter on the wrinkles and all...but heck...it cheers me up no end!!

Chuckle! ;0)

But I'd far rather be *me* Dave, than to **ever** become like 'Guest 10.16'

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:47 PM

Lizzie,

I am starting to believe you are becoming ever so slightly eccentric. You may take that as a compliment or not as you wish.

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:38 PM

There are two types of Dark Minds to me.

One is that of 'Guests 10.16 and 10.35' above, whose minds are on display for all to see....and who apparently, the BBC would prefer me to become like.



The other is one *far* darker. A mind that is pitch black, with no light *anywhere*

But, inside *that* mind dwelt the words and the wisdom of a soul so bright, so stunning, so compassionate, so intelligent, so illuminating, so deeply loving, that the world stared on in disbelief at the glistening stars that poured forth from her soul!

One woman.

Totally blind, totally deaf, totally mute, who took the world by storm with her positivity, her enthusiasm, her love of life..and of her fellow man.

One woman, who would have 'run her hands' over the braille version of Country Life, and absorbed all the meaning, the pictures and the feeling of empathy, that the writer of them has for the world about him.


From inside the beautiful, dark mind of Helen Keller:



"It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision"

"No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars. Or sailed an uncharted land. Or opened a new heaven,to the horizon of the spirit."

"As selfishness and complaint pervert the mind, so love with its joy clears and sharpens the vision"

"Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction! Be heroes in an army of construction!"

"Once I knew only darkness and stillness... my life was without past or future... but a little word from the fingers of another fell into my hand that clutched at emptiness, and my heart leaped to the rapture of living"

"Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all - the apathy of human beings"

"Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"

"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched - they must be felt with the heart"

"Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without hope and confidence"

"One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar"



Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:33 PM

Sorry countess! We posted at the same time - mine was in response to Liam's -

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:32 PM

I like Guest's use of it better though. But it shows you that old Pope was no mean hand himself at flaming:

http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/sporus.htm

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:30 PM

A simile is a figure of speech which expresses the resemblance of one thing to another in a different category (e.g. as completely fuckwit stupid as . . . [insert troll of choice]). Butterflies and wheels are not comparable, in the same way as sledgehammers and nuts are not. That's the point. Therefore, Who breaks a butterfly on a wheel? is not a simile. Cherry pick what they can steal, however, describes what's going on quite graphically.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Liam
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:09 PM

>>"Cherry pick what they can steal, a butterfly is broken on a wheel"

Well I never. I knew that simile was "borrowed" from William Rees Mogg's Times editorial about Jagger & Richards, but I did not realise he himself was quoting Alexander Pope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_breaks_a_butterfly_on_a_wheel%3F

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:35 AM

Is that a track from the SoH CD Fuckwitness?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:16 AM

Message boarding in a laid back mood, didn't do the little folky much good
Troll comes travelling, fishin for a bite, flaming up the folk net itchin to fight
Poison spam mail, hour by hour, they keep going way too far,
They're only here to spread their strife, an everyday story of virtual life

On good old UMF where it all was born, a killfile stopped their ranting scorn
Usenet rules aint used no more, what do you think we made them for?
Wasted bandwidth makes us frown, toxic trash we can't shut down,
But all the boards will pay the price, for another troll's vision of virtual life

Once the net was plain to see, a place to build community.
If peeps got angry, or unkind, we'd join together, make them mind,
Now self-righteous fuckwit fools, are taking over, breaking rules,
Our tolerance has been the price, cos they don't respect our virtual way of life

Silent fora, empty frames, can't chat no more for trolls and flames,
Cyber world is split in two, polarised by toxic views
They don't give a damn for netiquette, they're only out for what they can get
We try reason, as their knife, is carving up our virtual life

Freedom to troll? Here's the deal, flame fests bring us all to heel,
Toxic posts of giant scale, spamming is the final nail
The coffin of our virtual dream lies in ruins across the screen
While cyber lawyers writs in hand, strip this rich and fertile land,
Cherry pick what they can steal, a butterfly is broken on a wheel

No peace, no sense

Won't share, don't care


Trolls are ruling in our virtual life

Virtual life, virtual life, virtual life

It's a little bit of virtual life

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Ax
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:52 PM

WHY is this still in the music section? It stopped being about music a long time ago. If it ever was.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:21 PM

Well you're certainly getting enough space here to make up for what you lost there

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 03:58 PM

And if my post above doesn't make sense to many, then here are some words by which I and my children now live our lives! They are from Harry Chapin and they tell the story of how one person's bullying and dictatorial approach can turn out the lights in someone else's mind:

Flowers are Red
by Harry Chapin

"The little boy went first day of school
He got some crayons and started to draw
He put colors all over the paper
For colors was what he saw
And the teacher said.. What you doin' young man
I'm paintin' flowers he said
She said... It's not the time for art young man
And anyway flowers are green and red
There's a time for everything young man
And a way it should be done
You've got to show concern for everyone else
For you're not the only one

And she said...
Flowers are red young man
Green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than they way they always have been seen

But the little boy said...
There are so many colors in the rainbow
So many colors in the morning sun
So many colors in the flower and I see every one

Well the teacher said.. You're sassy
There's ways that things should be
And you'll paint flowers the way they are
So repeat after me.....

And she said...
Flowers are red young man
Green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than they way they always have been seen

But the little boy said...
There are so many colors in the rainbow
So many colors in the morning sun
So many colors in the flower and I see every one

The teacher put him in a corner
She said.. It's for your own good..
And you won't come out 'til you get it right
And are responding like you should
Well finally he got lonely
Frightened thoughts filled his head
And he went up to the teacher
And this is what he said.. and he said

Flowers are red, green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than the way they always have been seen

Time went by like it always does
And they moved to another town
And the little boy went to another school
And this is what he found
The teacher there was smilin'
She said...Painting should be fun
And there are so many colors in a flower
So let's use every one

But that little boy painted flowers
In neat rows of green and red
And when the teacher asked him why
This is what he said.. and he said

Flowers are red, green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than the way they always have been seen."



If some people want to write in black and white, they are free to do so, if others want to write in 'every colour of the rainbow' they are also free to do so!


"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else, means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight.....and never stop fighting."
e.e. cummings. 1894-1962

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 03:52 PM

'passing through'....you wouldn't happen to be a BBC employee would you by any chance?????????

The first link you gave, is to me, the real eye-opener! The second one, yes...great! Well done Mark Radcliffe!!

Call me cynical....(and for legal reasons, the following is purely my opinion)....but could this sudden decision to hail the Music Club as the new and 'happening' place to talk about FOLK, have anything to do with the fact that this whole situation has been so appallingly handled that the BBC are now running **** scared of actually being legally accused of suppression and discrimination, at all?????????

I was told on Thursday by the BBC Central Community Team (Community????) that I would remain banned for the remainder of the week, as they had stated, and after that I could return to the boards, with full freedom of posting, and all 'pre-mod' lifted! This would stay, as long as I didn't continue to flood the BBC and Smooth Ops with e mails!!!!!! (?????????) I had **ONLY** written to them over and over, because my questions were NOT being answered...by them!!

They then suggested that I wrote in an entirely different way, or indeed in an entirely different place, as my 'glowing and lengthy posts' upset other members! (OH PLEASE!!!!! It is NOT compuslory to read them!!!!!!!! There are OTHER people 'OUT THERE', looking in, who do though!!!) And they would be very happy to recommend other boards to which I may be more suited

(Gosh! Do the BBC really have messageboards in Siberia then????) ;0)

And...they very kindly said this:

>>"We are taking steps to ensure that they do not begin a 'witch-hunt' against you."<<

Awwww shucks! Isn't that **sweet** of them!



But........'they' as in the Music Club 'they', began a 'witch hunt' against me from practically Post 1.....and it was allowed to continue, with the BBC's permission!!

Meanwhile, (back at the ranch) on the F&A board, the most appalling 'witch hunt' has been going on for well over two years!!!!!! AND...Not a SINGLE SOUL at the BBC has ever given a **** about it before...EVER! And ALL the posters who took part in it, have never been individually reprimanded, (I have though)..or pre-modded, (I have though) OR banned, (I have though) So...that's all fair and square and above board then isn't it!!!!!! The word HYPOCRITICAL does not even begin....EVEN BEGIN to describe how I feel about all this......There was even a poster who went over from the Music Club to start a thread called 'fingers in both ears' which was purely a personallly abusive thread....and yet he/she/it is still free to post!!!!!!!

SHEESH!!

However, I should point out that the first proper e mail I had from the Mods, which was NOT a 'standard pre-printed' "Your message has been removed because of....etc.etc." which is usually sent out to everyone who has a post removed, although not always and often days and days after it has happened...was from the BBC informing me that I had been banned. Yes!! Wonderful that wasn't it!! NOT A WORD OF EXPLANATION about any of my questions though.....

So THEN....I wrote back, once more, with the whole story....except that THIS time..I told them I was going to the Press, because I was so flamingly angry at their **disgusting behaviour**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what do you think happened???? Go on....guess????

YES!!!!!!!!!!!......A MIRACLE!! Glory Halleluliah!!!!!

Within an hour or so....I had a whole new email from them!!

And THAT is (in my ever so humble opinion) WHY the BBC are possibly now promoting the Music Club and linking it with Folk Music....because I think they are covering their yellow BBC backs, shaking in their crumbling BBC shoes, and quivering in their creaking BBC beds!!!!

Discrimination and Suppression has (IMO) taken place and will **continue** to take place until the threads on Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman are re-opened! I was repeatedly verbally and personally abused, apparently because I had DARED to bring folk artists to 'their' Music Board, and these posts were allowed to remain, *despite* them being personal and getting to the point of harrassment, which is *not* allowed on BBC boards. (HAH! Excuse me whilst I fall over sideways like Mrs Doyle..but in complete 'harrassment' hysteria!!)

From the BBC's behaviour, based on the fact that I repeatedly told them that this was happening, yet no action was taken, I can only deduce that the BBC was in total agreement with the thoughts of those posters...that being, that Folk Music Musicians were NOT for discussion on their board, otherwise they would have removed their posts or at the very least, answered my continued questions, as to who we were, and were not, apparently allowed to talk about on their board!


And **STILL** there is no explanation as to why those two threads are closed? There is STILL no explanation as to what happened to a thread about Sandy Thom and Show of Hands, (NOT from me by the way)....which appeared, disappeared, appeared and then....came back, I think closed....only to disappear AGAIN!!

The BBC Boards and the Modding of them are a complete and utter shambles!

Oh...and I told the BBC where they could stick their boards....AND their attitudes!!

If they seriously think that I am going to write as so many of their other posters do, which is, negatively, rudely, harrassingly, abusingly and disruptively....AND if they think that I am going to spend my days on there thinking of 'Best Of' lists or 'Songs for Cremations' (oh yes indeedy!)...whilst 'OUT HERE' there are hundreds of DEEPLY TALENTED musicians who DESERVE to be written about in 'glowing' terms and whose songs take me to a million different places, and who have such power and strength in their lyrics and such vision in their views on the present and the future...and also that of the past....And if they SERIOUSLY think that I would ever, EVER want to become like some of the posters who have hurled the most appalling verbal things at me for a very long time, (some of which I have admitted to hurling right back at them...but I was banned for this...and er...they weren't!).....then they are totally and utterly even more APPALLINGLY OUT OF CONTACT with the real world than even I had imagined!!!!!!!!

I refuse to write in BLACK AND WHITE!!!! I write as I write and I write in COLOUR!!! No-one *HAS* to read **anything**....there is very little 'community' in the BBC, mostly small, strong groups of dominating people who seek to 'control' those boards...

I would rather NEVER write again, than to EVER sell my Verbal Soul to the appalling, harrassing, bullying, rule-breaking, controlling, humourless, colourless, dumbed-down, unfeeling, obsessional, uncaring, hating, narrow-minded, mind-blowingly negative, jealous, bitter, pathetic and dictatorial PRATS who seem, in so many cases, (imo) to inhabit the BBC boards.

...and who are encouraged and permitted to be there by the BBC themselves!!!!!


"INJUSTICE ANYWHERE IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE" Martin Luther King.


Thank you very much.....


Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,passing through
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 11:28 AM

The quick look at Radio 2 homepage shows it currently linking to the Music Club thread 'How do you define folk' and allso highlight the special Mark Radcliffe at the Shetland Folk Festival with an interview with Julie Fowlis.

Doesn't look much like discrimination to me, maybe it's just Lizzie they're pissed off with. How come she only got banned for a week?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: captainbirdseye
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 09:40 AM

Asit happens Vinnie Jones is agreyhound owner,so undoubtedly, if he can sing,hewould make a good job of master mcgrath

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 07:43 AM

guest 8:04 you're quite right and I was wrong to say "all" - shoulda said "all I need to know"

Not judging anything or anyone, merely observing.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 05:33 AM

No Jon,

I merely put a post on about Show of Hands....it wasn't rude, or aggressive or any such thing at all....and in no time at all, there I was, yet again, being told how and what to write....that what I had written was 'not how we do things here'etc. etc. etc........here is the thread:

SHOW OF HANDS EVERWHERE: (first post and title now returned. Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3146306




In fact, here is every thread I started, if anyone wants to see exactly what happened, but this is NOT compulosry...and er..probably more than a little boring (!)...so please feel free to just scroll on past this post, if you so choose:

SETH LAKEMAN: (first post and title removed,returned and now REMOVED. Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3160097

THE FABULOUS OYSTERBAND: (first post and title removed, returned, now removed. Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3163680

MUSICAL RACISM:(first post and title removed and returned)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3163834

DISAPPEARING THREADS: (first post and title removed, returned, removed. Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3177244

YUSUF ISLAM/CAT STEVENS: (left entirely alone, by the mods and posters, no disruption, or messages being removed, other than an entirely permissable link to Yusuf's recent documentary!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3163486

CLOSED THREADS: (Thread CLOSED...superb, delicious irony there!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3171063

JOHNNIE WALKER, MAN OF WISDOM: (first post and title removed, then returned.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3170276

RICHARD THOMPSON COVERS: (left entirely alone by Mods and posters)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3157824

MUSIC LINKS...BBC HOST< PLEASE CAN YOU...'(Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3165992



These next threads I started to ask why all the other threads had been turned into chaos by having their title and first post removed, when they had already been checked by the Mods!

THE MUSICAL RACISM MYSTERY: (first post and title removed. Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3171326

THE SHOW OF HANDS MYSTERY: (closed down)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3168472

THE SETH LAKEMAN MYSTERY: (first post and title removed now returned. Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3168076

THE OYSTERBAND MYSTERY: (Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3167726

THE JOHNNIE WALKER MYSTERY: (Thread CLOSED)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3175728



The thread that disappeared completely was entitled "Closed 'closed thread' Thread" in which I pointed out that they'd even er...closed that one down as well.

Despite ALL of this, PLUS 3 official complaints and almost daily replies to the Mods....NOTHING was explained, apart from me being told how tiresome it was of me to keep putting these threads on. The WHOLE point of course, being missed....that IF the BBC had replid in the FIRST place....NONE of this would have happened!!

Once again, from Michael Grade:


"The real test of any organisation is how it deals with complaints from the public." - Michael Grade BBC Chairman


PAH! PAH! PAH!!

WHAT a way to run the BBC! Or anything else for that matter!


Lizzie :0) (At the 'sack that man **IMMEDIATELY** end!)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,8:04
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 05:30 AM

Buck - You never know all there is to know from choosing to read only one side of the story, especially when you're missing a lot of the background facts. If its about more than music you might ask yourself why. It sounds like you're new to the story and not in a position to judge.

But you're welcome anyway.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:47 PM

I suppose the biggest pointer to what it is all about is that the once difficult F&A board became more peaceful and the peaceful Music Club board became troubled with the transfer of just one person.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:27 PM

Guest 8:04 - I suspect I know pretty much all there is to know just from reading Lizzie's posts here. I don't really think this has anything to do with music.

But thanks anyway.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:02 PM

THE ONLY REASON THAT YOU ARE NOW OVER ON THE MUSIC CLUB BOARD JON, DISCUSSING FOLK MUSIC, IS BECAUSE I WENT OVER THERE LAST WEEK TO TALK ABOUT SHOW OF HANDS BEING ON JOHNNIE WALKER, THE OYSTERBAND, SETH LAKEMAN, RICHARD THOMPSON ET AL....AND I STARTED TO OPEN UP THEIR EYES TO A WHOLE GENRE OF MUSIC, THAT THEY EITHER DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT OR WEREN'T INTERESTED IN.....AND ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lizzie, I went over there because I read this thread and wanted to see for myself what all this hell let loose was all about. I found the hell was entirely of your creation (and no you cant blame me - I was't even there when it happened) and that when a later thread was started, folk music as I said was discussed without problem. Your openng question is a lie. One can DISCUSS folk music over there. One can't rant/rave, spam, etc.

EVEN THOUGH I HAD LEFT YOU ALL ALONE, LEFT YOU TO YOUR 'OWN' BOARD........

You can not possibly have thought that. You know full well, and this is supported by Peter, that I (and he) left the place while you were there because we were fed up with the perpetual rows, many of which you were a major instigator.

Also, as pointed out, the fallouts continued after our departures. As far as I understand it, you eventually did walk out of the place but I didn't even know anything about it. I only came back when to announce I had a new abcconverter tool that I thought might be useful to some there. I found the place more peaceful and stayed.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 08:04 PM

Buck - If you've only seen the BBC boards today then you really do not know what this is all about. A lot of the stuff being talked about here has either been taken off by the moderators (which tells you something) or is past and doesn't show up on the current screen.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:29 PM

Actually Tootles.....my posting at 8.55 was quite restrained...under the circumstances!!

And the only poster I was replying to, Jon, (perhaps you didn't read his name on there) has put grumpy rude post after rude post on here about me, I suggest you read them all...I have also put up with quite a few explosions from him elsewhere...and yet....I have never, ever done that to him.

All I want is to be able to write in the way that is natural to me and not to have people continually telling me to do it **their** way!! I am a free person, as are they. Get off my back..that's all I'm asking!

With respect Tootles, you truly have to have walked Ten Thousand Miles in my moccasins to realise what all this is about. It's been going on for years and years!

And you're missing the point!! I did not respond like this on the BBC, every single post (altogether now....) was checked by them first *before* it went on!!!!! Max is the only person who lets me !!!!!!! all over the place and actually answer all these grumbling grizzlies who follow me round groaning gratuitously!! I mean....WHAT is it with these people????????

However....I was in no way responding to Barbara in my post of 8.55 In fact...Barbara is one of the only people who understands that my words are also my voice....and whilst I am *normally* a fairly quiet person, with a great sense of humour...I do tend to erupt everywhere, when I feel that injustice or dictatorship is taking place!!

Once again.....I am a free person!

Thank you Tootles!


Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Tootler
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:10 PM

Lizzie,

Your posting at 8:55 was little better than a childish tantrum. If that is your reponse to a number of posts, all of which were trying to be helpful, then you fully deserve what has happened to you.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:03 PM

Hello Buck!

I'm starting to get banned from more boards than I've had hot dinners! ;0).....And all because I won't stop talking about music!!

I am as you may have noticed..."subject to shame, abuse and ridicule on all boards regardless of your topic?"....although I'd remove the word ALL from there and put in Radio 2 Folk & Acoustic board. The artists I've always spoken about have been from the F&A world but some of them are on the Black List of The Folk Police....as indeed am I. ;0)

My grouch is that I was literally stopped from talking about the music that I love, on a board where it specifically says that you can er...'talk about the music that you love'..and where no genre at all is specified. So....I did...and now...the threads of three of those artists have been closed down with no explanation, my posts have been removed, even though I was pre-modded, and they were often the first posts I put on about the artists, so HOW could they be deemed spam???.....and I've now been banned for daring to repeatedly ask WHY...on the BBC messageboard...which I had to do over and over as NO-ONE answered me!! I'd written to the official complaints section THREE times, and was writing to the Mods on practically a daily basis, but had heard nothing, other than being told by the 'official' people to er..write to the Mods!!!

"Hello, your call is important to us, please hold the line".....well I did.....for AGES...and no-one came...so I erupted!! Aaaarrrgggghhh!

Now then, about John Prine. I have a confession!

A long while back, someone started a thread on the F&A board about him. Someone came on and said he was 'Country' and the track I heard sounded very 'Country' so I er...gosh...cripes!.....I agreed with the poster above me, politely suggesting that perhaps the BBC Country Board would be more appreciative and put a link in to that board for him...but...I was *very* polite! Someone pointed out that it was all really just music and I realised they were absoluely right....and so I humbly apologised to said poster and found this for him as a token of apology:

http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=3677

Hope you enjoy it too.....

And now..I shall sit back and watch the Moaning Minnies have a field day with that story. But...at least I'm honest! ;0)

AND..I'd also like to point out that John Prine should be able to be spoken about on the Music Club board as well, and I'm sure he would be permitted....but just not if he were playing with Seth Lakeman, Show of Hands or The Oysterband it would seem!

"Your BBC" HAH!

Oh and someone sent me this yesterday, from the BBC board.

"The real test of any organisation is how it deals with complaints from the public." - Michael Grade BBC Chairman


DOUBLE/TRIPLE/QUADRUPLE HAH!! Well, I'll tell you how the BBC deals with complaints from its public!! They throw you into Room 101 for daring to ask why, then chuck the key away, whilst letting ignorant twits roam their boards, deeply insulting and verbally abusing people left, right and centre!

"YOUR BBC" Oh Really????????


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:17 PM

Clarify for me, please, Lizzie, are you subject to shame, abuse and ridicule on all boards regardless of your topic? I've been to the F&A board today, and it sure looked to me like posts about what I consider to be "folk" music are welcome (I posted in fact, about Prine. Can't beat that on Day One). Is it that you fancy some artists who are not allowable subject matter on any BBC board? Or is it that you want to post about whoever you want to post about wherever you want to post?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:08 AM

Jon and I were the first to leave after the last bout of shenanigans. When we left, there was still plenty of blood letting going on and others have left too. The notions of loyalty and support start to wear thin after a while.

I think it's time to leave and learn a lot of very long songs.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:34 AM

This thread WAS about the fact that threads about folk and acoustic artists have been closed down on the Music Club on the BBC. They will remain closed I'm sure, as hey...people may start to talk on there if they re-open them! As I said earlier, BBC suppression and discrimination in action!

Obviously though, that's perfectly OK by loads of people, as this thread has become, as you say, yet another moaning thread about me...my way of writing, how many !!!! I use, what percentage of threads I dared to start on the BBC...etc..etc..etc...

Sheesh!!

And THAT is why I asked the Moaning Ones to stay out of it....but er.....

Personally, over the last few days, I've lost the will to even bother anymore!!

From now on....I'll leave it to Jon and his pals......WHY should I even bother? WHY did I EVER bother?????

Put it back in it's box....for evermore....

There you go....

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BB
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 09:22 AM

Oh well, I tried...

Barbara

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Folkmusiclover
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 09:11 AM

What is this thread actually ABOUT? There seem to be three different conversations, one about definitions of music, one about self-moderation (or lack of), and one about self-justification and moaning. Sorry Lizzie but it just reads like that - you revived it after two days just to have another go at people you dislike or who dislike you. That's a personal argument rather than a music thread. And really the acts you mention - all good ones, worth giving a listen to - are already pretty well known. We didn't need you to "open our eyes" to people who have been performing for decades and are popular in their own right.

Your enthusiasm and obvious love for the music is valuable, your repeated ranting & raving is not. You really don't have any right to accuse others of venting their spleen when you do it just as much or even more.

Re-read BB's last post, and take it to heart. Please.

I know you don't like guests but sorry I don't feel like putting a cookie in my computer over this.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 08:55 AM

>>>>The "Music Club" board does (a little to my surprise) attemt to cater for a variety of musical tastes and folk music has been discussed to some degree by others including myself without the problems Lizzie is encountering.<<<<<


BLOODY ANGRY WARNING!! DO NOT ENTER FURTHER IF IN FRAIL HEALTH!!!!!



Ye Gods And Little Fishes!!!!!!!!!!!!

What sanctimonious claptrap!

OK...I'm yelling now!!!


THE ONLY REASON THAT YOU ARE NOW OVER ON THE MUSIC CLUB BOARD JON, DISCUSSING FOLK MUSIC, IS BECAUSE I WENT OVER THERE LAST WEEK TO TALK ABOUT SHOW OF HANDS BEING ON JOHNNIE WALKER, THE OYSTERBAND, SETH LAKEMAN, RICHARD THOMPSON ET AL....AND I STARTED TO OPEN UP THEIR EYES TO A WHOLE GENRE OF MUSIC, THAT THEY EITHER DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT OR WEREN'T INTERESTED IN.....AND ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY HAVE ALREADY VENTED THEIR SPLEENS ALL OVER ME.....AS DID YOU, FIONA AND A WHOLE LOT MORE!!!!!!!!!!!

THEN, ONE OF 'THEM' DECIDED TO HAVE A THREAD ON KARINE POLWART, NO DOUBT TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.....AND IT WORKED!

MEANWHILE ALL THE POISONOUS GNOMES FROM THE RADIO 2 BOARD, JUMPED ON BOARD TO THWACK AND VERBALLY PUNCH ME AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY!!!!!!!!!EVEN THOUGH I HAD LEFT YOU ALL ALONE, LEFT YOU TO YOUR 'OWN' BOARD........

and now.......NOW.....you sit there saying piously..."Oh...WE can all discuss folk music and no-one bats an eyelid!"

JUMPING JEHOSAPHATS!!!!!!

NOW...NOW!!!! I've heard EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!

SHEESH!

HOLY CATFISH!

BLISTERING *********** BARNACLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 08:10 AM

Where do you draw the line though? Segregation against the will of another exists even in Mudcat. Shambles for example might be very upset if he saw a post moved from the music section to the BS section.

An answer to that may well be "well it's Max's" forum, another might be that it is a rational logical split appropriate for the board. That applies to the BBC too, surely they have the rights to categorise as they feel fit and in a manner that to them feels logical for the needs of their site? I still think everything, even just everything musical in just one big board would be impossible there.

The issue raised by Lizzie, is based on a false premis though. Although I had assumed it was a categorising issue and would have been happy with the situation (unless applied with a rod of iron) as Folk is a genre lucky enough to be dedicated a section unlike soul for example, the opening question:

"Are you all happy for Folk And Acoustic music to be only spoken about on the Folk and Acoustic board?"

is wrong. The "Music Club" board does (a little to my surprise) attemt to cater for a variety of musical tastes and folk music has been discussed to some degree by others including myself without the problems Lizzie is encountering. To use these terms, so called "Folkies" and "non Folkies" have participated.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:56 AM

Did you ireally mean to post here, possibly?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Charmain
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:37 AM

Ok its not racism but it is separation and when separation is enfoced against the will of another it is then segregation and segregation is supposed to be a bad thing isn't it?
Why does everything always have to be seperated out into little neat boxes - to paraphrase the late, great John Peel (who claimed the Oldham Tinkers "come whaom to thi childer" as one of his all time favourite recordings) - where's the dividing line between folk/world music and all the other music - all music is folk/world music - its played by folk in the world isn't it?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:04 AM

I've never knowingly heard any of the groups you recommend here

Well you have probably at least heard of one of the Show Of Hands musicains, Phil Beer. I gather Miranda Sykes plays (only sometimes???) with them too - not sure if you would have come accross her but she is a superb bass player and singer.

It's one of those bands to me, excellent musicains but I don't care much for much of the material which to me is more "accoustic pop" than folk music but that's another debate in itself...

Anyway, here is thier site.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:41 AM

Liz Cornish wrote:
: I can't even talk about the music I want to talk about on their new board. It's appalling.

I wouldn't want to read a board filled with obsessional ranting like yours. The BBC has an abligation to its readers to keep their stuff varied and interesting, and if you were allowed to do what you'd like, you'd bore every single reader they had into leaving.

I've never knowingly heard any of the groups you recommend here, and nothing you've posted has done a single solitary thing to make me want to - rather the contrary, I tend to think "if those groups only appeal to repetitive bores they can't be for me".

If you're the same Lizzie Cornish who writes for quilting magazines you must be getting a LOT of help from your editor. Perhaps you'd be better off writing about music on edited media too.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Tootler
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 04:44 AM

While I don't find Lizzie's post upsetting or offensive, it is quite clear from some of the replies on the message board that others have taken offense at what she has written. Mostly, I suspect, because of the excess of capitals and exclamation marks which can be wearing to read.

What I see is almost an excess of enthusiasm and we need some enthusiasm as we see too much cynicism these days.

Barbara's point "you obviously write as you think and speak, rather than working it all out beforehand and coming over as cool, calm and collected. I actually rather like that." is a fair one, but nevertheless you do have to be more careful in print as there is no voice inflection or body language to give clues as to your true position on a topic, so I do think it is important that you do think about what you are writing and review it before you are sending.

The two specific conditions that I suspect Lizzie has run foul of in the BBC's terms and conditions are

* Repeatedly post the same or similar messages (referred to as 'spam')

* Are considered likely to provoke, attack or offend others

More likely the former than the latter IMHO.

So, Please Lizzie;

continue to be enthusiastic about traditional music, enjoy it and share your enthusiasm with others. However, when you are posting to message boards just try to think for a moment about the potential impact on others of what you write and if necessary, tone it down a little bit before hitting "submit". Also most message boards have a "Preview" button or check box. Use it to give yourself a second chance to think about what you have written.

Yours, I hope helpfully, - as have the last few posts been

Geoff

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 04:07 PM

I can understand that Barbara, I suppose I'm a bit of a "world weary folkie" but I remember when I first encountered Lizzie, I think on the BBC F&A board, there were a few comments about Lizzie having only relatively recently discovered folk music and the enthuisam and excitement she showed.

That was once amongst the reasons this member of the "Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang Of Pathetic Suspects'" did at least at one time try to offer some degree of support to her.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 04:05 PM

Ahem. I don't think LC gets excited over the music, exactly . . .

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BB
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 03:51 PM

OK, I haven't been to the Radio 2 Boards, and therefore perhaps shouldn't comment, but I have seen Lizzie's posts here, and sometimes wish that there were others with her sense of excitement over the music.

Perhaps, Lizzie, that plea for a little self-moderation should be taken seriously, then perhaps everyone would be happier, and there would be less need for the nastiness that seems to get thrown around on here.

Barbara

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 03:22 PM

Not really Barbara, although I do find shouting and excessive punctuation marks anoying.

It is Lizzie's excesses in general that get most people down. I did a thread count of the first 50 threads yesterday moring. Out of that 50, Lizzie was responsible for starting 14 - yes over 1/4 of those threads were Lizzies, and going by comments in the few I read, some were repeats/reruns. It's hardly surprising that someone should for example point out that we do have a specialised F&A board if that volume of output is being produced.

The general complaint over on the Music Club board is not about folk music (there is in fact a "what is folk to you thread that has been running for 2 days without problem on that board), Lizzie's groups, exclamation marks or anything other than a general plea for some degree of self moderation but any reasonable request to Lizzie is at least met with an increase in effectively trying to ram stuff down the throats of others.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BB
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 02:48 PM

I understand why people get upset with you, Lizzie. It's because they can't cope with all the capital letters and exclamation marks which you use to express yourself with. Personally, I find that they really do express both your enthusiasm and your frustration, and they don't particularly annoy me - you obviously write as you think and speak, rather than working it all out beforehand and coming over as cool, calm and collected. I actually rather like that. Those who get annoyed should perhaps listen to what you actually say, rather than immediately reacting to the look of your posts.

And 'guests' who don't identify themselves really are beneath contempt, and as far as I'm concerned have no right to criticise those who are quite open about who they are.

Don't let the buggers get you down...

Barbara

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 01:06 PM

Of course youre not going to reply. You know its the truth.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:54 PM

Er...Tootler, the BBC have ONLY been putting my posts on there in the first place because they HAVE been checked completely and they have passed all the House Rules!

And still there has been no answer as to why those threads on three lots of musicians have been locked. You may be into suppression and discrimination of various artists...I am not.

You'll excuse me if I don't answer the er 'person' above you.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Tootler
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:48 AM

Lizzie,

I'm afraid I can see exactly why the BBC have excluded you.

Click on the "House Rules" Link on one of your blocked messages and you should be able to work it out for yourself.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:31 AM

So now you start a Mudcat thread to whinge about how badly youre being treated by the BBC, which is what this is all about.

Wonder why they dont like you there

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:26 AM

Well, it had to happen!

I've just been banned from the BBC for a whole week (shiver me timbers) because I damn well keep asking WHY????????

Posts and threads about Seth Lakeman, The Oysterband and Yusuf Islam came back on last night..AND...they were all OPEN!!

So...on I went, to happily inform people that they were now back, they'd moved to page 4 and some people may have overlooked them....those messages were deemed spam...er...even though the BBC themselves allowed them on (they weren't spam, just informative)...then they got rid of them....THEN they removed the titles and posts about Seth and The Oysterband, completely....AGAIN!!!!!.....and the Yusuf one from last night (which I posted way back, went on the board and disappeared. I'd started another one, which is still on there)....has now also gone, although this is for the best as the second thread was very similar, just with a different link in......which was removed anyway..even though there was no earthly reason to do that!

(Anyone lost the will to live yet?!) ;0)


However, the Show of Hands one is STILL closed as are the Show of Hands 'Mystery' one and the Seth Lakeman 'Mystery'. WHY?????

Meanwhile the 'official complaints section' of the BBC told me to write to the mods...and the mods told me to write to the 'official complaints section' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So....I thought I'd put the post, which has obviously made them all apply for Early Retirement, on here:


_____________________________________________________________________


>>>>Subject:
SUPPRESSION OF ARTISTS AND MUSIC

Posting:
TO THE MODS and HOST OF THIS BOARD


WHERE ARE YOU?

WHO ARE YOU?

WHAT THE BLAZES ARE YOU DOING??????????

No-one will answer me!!!

I have now made THREE official complaints about this board and what is going on here...and have been told that if I have a problem, then I should write to the Mods!!!!!!!!

BUT...I write to the Mods, er....all the time at present.....and guess what???????

THEY NEVER WRITE BACK!!!!!!


Meanwhile posts of mine in which EVERY SINGLE WORD AND LINK is checked first, as I am on pre-mod, are happily placed on this board, then....they are ***removed***...along with titles.....and I am told they are SPAM!!!! It is chaotic and a complete shambles!!!!

HOW can ONE thread and one post on The Oysterband be SPAM?????? The Oysterband Mystery was ONLY started up because the original thread was removed...it contains nothing about the band....merely asking WHY the original thread went!! And that thread is now closed down!!??????

HOW can ONE thread and post, in which every single thing has been pre-chekced by you, the Mods, before being permitted on this board...then be SPAM...or have links in which are deemed commercial?

Every links is pre-examined. They are purely links to artists websites, which are permitted on all other boards............AND...if I put a link in right now to the BBC Cambridge Folk Festival...it would be allowed to stay....YET should also be viewed in exactly the same way as any other link is now being viewed!!!!!

And NO! this thread is NOT inflammatory. This thread is ONLY here, because NO-ONE at the BBC will tell me what the **************** is going on??????????

And WHY has the SHOW OF HANDS thread been closed down? And WHY has the second Seth Lakeman thread also been closed down? Again, just as with The Oysterband, it was *only* started because the MODS REMOVED the FIRST THREAD COMPLETELY!!

AND **WHY** are you returning these threads and posts....and then removing them again???????????

I can obviously NOT write about Seth Lakeman, The Oysterband or Show of Hands...and as I view this as discrimination and suppression, I want to know WHY!!!! I truly do not think this is too much to ask!!

This is causing chaos and it needs sorting!!!!!!!

NONE of my posts are breaking House Rules, because they are all being checked against the House Rules in the first place!!!

PLEASE TELL US WHAT IS GOING ON????????

YOU are causing these problems Mods....NOT ME!!!
I merely wanted to write about 'The Music That You Love' as I am permitted to do and encouraged to do by those very words on YOUR board...and yet....LOOK what is happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Lizzie
<<<<<<

__________________________________________________________________



And yet.....STILL I have no answers!!

Deeply appalling BBC!

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:37 PM

Try telling that to the BBC Peter. I can't even talk about the music I want to talk about on their new board. It's appalling.

And folk *should* be mainstream again. I don't think of it as 'my' music though or 'our' music, it's just music....and I feel that talking of it as 'ours' is one of the problems that has held it back.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:29 AM

Once upon a time, folk music was mainstream. Its popularity has been supplanted by other forms that seem more relevant to those who like it. It took some time and repeated visits for me to appreciate the beauty, value and place of folk music and traditional music in particular. My experience with my children is that they will tolerate my chosen music as much as I will tolerate theirs. Encouragement is one thing but when people are told that is is what they should like, they tend to go elsewhere (unless it is the 50 best things about .... in the broadsheet newspapers). So please, let's not foist "our" music on others, but encourage.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:11 AM

'Tis OK.....it's my thread and if people want to veer of into fRoots, then they have my permission, not that it's needed by the way, of course ;0)


Titles are coming back over on the BBC, but...the threads are still locked!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:42 AM

If you have something to say about the July Editor's Box from which I was quoting, you could always make a contribution to the fRoots forum. It seems a tad inappropriate to be sounding off here in a thread which is about someone's perception of strange behaviour at the BBC. How off-topic can you get?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Liam
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:17 AM

>>fRoots has a readership of 40,000 and the online forum has 673 registered users:

Countess, unless you haven'yt noticed, no one has posted on the fRoots "letters page" in 24 hours, and that is not unusual.

23 people voted in the "shall we ban the trolls" poll, and that has been going a whole month too to even get that many.

I'm always very sceptical about "readership" as opposed to "copies sold" figures.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 04:27 AM

Bloody 'ell Al, calm down, it's too early.

eric

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 03:38 AM

fRoots and BBC

lost causes.

it was ever thus.

In the 1970's. melody Maker used to do this competition every year. The melody maker Folk Rock Competition. open to all comers.

Two years running - Andy Dwyer was placed. Voted best soloist. he was a young Brummy, he was working class and he didn't have a clue how folKies were supposed to dress and behave. he'd turn up to gigs in his beat suit, and shake hands formally with the club organiser.

Yet his songs were something else. there was one extraordinarily powerful one about the buses with segregated facilities for Black people, we were building for South Africa in Birmingham factories.

singer songwriters - oh they are old stuff. Punks the thing nowadays, they would say - that's real working class music. My arse!

I've just seen so much important English music die of neglect. ian wants to patronise Zulu satirists, and Portuguese bongo players, and whoever has got a decent recording contract. Radio 2 thinks the future of folk music is jigs and reels that nobody dances to, and songs about collier laddies.

Bollocks to the lot of them. they will always have some reason for not being interested in what is going on in the folk clubs. its never going to be Britpop or Shitpop enough for them.

Now there is the internet - we don't need them.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:47 AM

fRoots has a readership of 40,000 and the online forum has 673 registered users:

http://www.frootsmag.com/

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Effsee
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:31 PM

"That's pretty much the entire readership of the magazine, isn't it?"

If that's the case, how come it survives in this oh so commercial world?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Mr Fox
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:57 PM

"In nearly two years of the the fRoots forum's existence, Ian Anderson has banned a total of four users: two for being abusive (one to me), one for being a terminally boring troll and one for smiley abuse and unfunny silliness"


That's pretty much the entire readership of the magazine, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:52 PM

I had this weird dream an hour ago....it was about the BBC Music Club
board.

I think it was brought on by the fact that the BBC have now, for no reason whatsoever and without any explanation, closed down threads on The Oysterband, Seth Lakeman and Show of Hands.

In my dream, I dreamt that Smooth Ops were hovering around....and..in my dream....they were absolutely panic stricken....that for the first time...FOLK & ACOUSTIC music was being discussed on a BBC board other than theirs.

And as I dreamt I saw the orders going out for threads to be closed down if they contained posts/discussions about certain folk artists.....and the more I dreamed the more clear it started to become...

And then....I woke and.......I just couldn't get the word 'suppression' out of my mind.....

How strange dreams can be, because of course..that could never happen.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:42 PM

"In nearly two yearsof the the fRoots forum's existence, Ian Anderson has banned a total of four users"

That's what I meant though. Now, he's only got five left in the Tooty fRooty Snooty Club.

He needs a chatterbox....with a big smile! ;0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 10:04 AM

In nearly two yearsof the the fRoots forum's existence, Ian Anderson has banned a total of four users (excluding Russian porn spammers): two for being abusive (one to me), one for being a terminally boring troll and one for smiley abuse and unfunny silliness (you can guess who this last one was. I can only recall disagreeing with Ian publicly on two issues, and not all that profoundly. I'm sure he'll tell me in a civilised manner if he wants me to go.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:51 AM

She's not ringing on your bell GUEST. If you don't like it just don't read it. If you read it and don't like it, just say so. Where's the need to add Putting down would be a good move? How pathetic is that? Just say you don't like it and there's and end to it. probelem solved

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:43 AM

Is it any wonder that Lizzie gets put out

Put out? Putting down would be a good move. If you tell the sanctimonious bible pushers who ring your doorbell on a Sunday morning that you don't want a copy of Watchtower they push off. She doesn't.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Liam
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:42 AM

The only people left on the fRoots board are the 20 people that agree with Ian all the time plus Diane, and she has diagreed with him 3 times this year, so her days there must be numbered. There seems to be about one post a day there too, which shows how thrilling the place is.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:41 AM

Sorry Guest, but I think the verse appropriate to the list Lizzie gave. Here is one version.

Nobody likes me, everybody hates me,
Guess I'll go eat worms,
Long, thin, slimy ones; Short, fat, juicy ones,
Itsy, bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms.

Down goes the first one, down goes the second one; oh, how they wiggle and squirm!
Up comes the first one, up comes the second one; oh, how they wiggle and squirm!

First one's greazy, goes down easy, second one sticks to your tongue.
Third one's rusted, fourth one's busted, fifth one starts to run.

Nobody likes me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna' go eat worms.
Big ones, little ones, ooshy gooshy gooshy ones; worms that squirm and squirm.

I bite off the heads, and suck out the juice and throw the skins away
Nobody knows how fat I grow on worms three times a day

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:34 AM

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:22 AM

"You are not one of us"
"You do not belong here"
"You are a troll"
"You are lower than the lowest form of human"
"We do not want to hear what you have to say"
"We do not want to hear your music"
"We do not want you"

Sounds like you should go eat worms, Lizze.
============================================

Is it any wonder that Lizzie gets put out. Shame on you GUEST, Jon. Is that the best you can do? The lowest common denominator just doesn't cover it!! Don't answer GUEST, Jon - Lizzie. Don't give them the satisfaction

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:22 AM

"You are not one of us"
"You do not belong here"
"You are a troll"
"You are lower than the lowest form of human"
"We do not want to hear what you have to say"
"We do not want to hear your music"
"We do not want you"

Sounds like you should go eat worms, Lizze.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:11 AM

Apologies to folks for this, but it has to be said:


Lordy, I do hope so Fiona!

And er...Vinnie already has some dates booked up for next year. He's hoping to come and live over here, actually. The reason being? He is desperate to get his message spread, as are very many people in this world Fiona, and that message is that we all need to change.

If you took the trouble to look a little deeper you would find song after song of his that deals with our children, drug addicts, corruption, apathy, racism!

Steve over at The Acoustic Stage, was so impressed that he got Vinnie's music over almost immediately, take a look. He's hopefully playing at Otterton Mill, down the road from Sidmouth next year, as once more, the man who runs it was deeply impressed. I'm sure he will have many other offers coming in too. I certainly hope so.

You have, in my opinion, a very deeply suspicious mind Fiona. It is what has twisted your view of me and given you the zeal to try and twist the views of others.

Before you go round messageboards slagging people off I'd suggest you find out a bit more about them first!

And I presume YOU have asked the BBC to remove a post of mine then, where I brought up the fact that Vinnie has the passion of Springsteen mixed with the compassion of Martin Luther King? Shame on you! Absolute SHAME! Because that is exactly what he is about Fiona! Although HOW Vinnie aims to turn people's views around when people such as yourself malign him in that way....I've no idea...but I'll tell you something...he won't give up, no matter what you decide to throw at him!

So...is Vinnie going to become the new 'hate figure' in your campaign....or do I still feature as No 1!

I wish you well in your twisted, mixed-up world....but do not bring it to my door again!

And talk not to me of racism!!!! I may be the same colour as you, I may not, but your's and others attitudes to me is exactly the same thing!

"You are not one of us"
"You do not belong here"
"You are a troll"
"You are lower than the lowest form of human"
"We do not want to hear what you have to say"
"We do not want to hear your music"
"We do not want you"

SHAMEFUL....yet...DEEPLY illuminating!

Racisim is about hatred and fear. It is about one form of people deciding they are better than others. And one 'tribe' of people being fearful of others. It is about darkly dominating things, that should never be, but sadly are....it is all around us and...at present...for many people...it is getting worse!!!!

And the VERY PEOPLE who are writing about it, who have experienced it first hand and who are trying to make a difference are the VERY PEOPLE whom you choose to DAMN!!!


Look into your soul 'Fiona' *whoever* you may be!   

And look DEEP!



Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:02 AM

: Meanwhile, over on the BBC Music Club board, I can no longer post on the Show of Hands,
: Oysterband or Seth Lakeman threads. I can on the others though. Er...somehow, I don't think
: it's a technical glitch either...

Of course not. They're an entertainment business, why should they give a platform for boring self-righteous people to drive their audience away?

Now go away.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,stevethesqueeze
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:02 AM

In my humble opinion Racism is the wrong word. But I think there is prejudice against folk and acoustic music in the manstream and I accept that it is a minority interest. For me though I don't mind. I hate comercial radio and the whole commercial music scene. I am rather glad and a little bit proud to be seperate from the mainstream. But thats my own opinion.

stevethesqueeze

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Fiona
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:44 AM

In between complaints I'd suggest you look up what 'racism' means, the misuse in this thread title is objectionable, even more so since you're bandying Martin Luther Kings name about. I'm glad the BBC have removed it.

And I've just looked at Vinnie James myspace site again. It's quite clear, he's asking people to send him $20 so he can tour Europe, in return you'll get a 'free cd' which you can buy on Amazon for $1.98.

No dates planned, so if he doesn't tour will he send folks back their money?

This is just making me cross, so it's my final word.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:22 AM

'Tis OK John...I like the sound of firkins! ;0)

And Jon, do give it a rest there's a good fellow. I never posted acres of Smilies on Ian's site....he has a fit if you go over two. But, I've a feeling that Ian grins from ear to ear as he zaps us all, one by one....Oh! The power of your own board eh! ;0) Good job Max isn't like that.

Now, if I were you, I'd hurry on over there because Ian needs each and every one of you on his board to fill it out a tiny bit.

Meanwhile, over on the BBC Music Club board, I can no longer post on the Show of Hands, Oysterband or Seth Lakeman threads. I can on the others though. Er...somehow, I don't think it's a technical glitch either...so there we are then. "We don't want your type of music around here!"

APPALLING behaviour by the BBC, and one I shall be making yet another official complaint about, although I've already made *two* and not heard a thing...yet.

Hey ho!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Barden of England
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:59 AM

I'm afraid my girth probably wouldn't allow a hug Lizzie :-). Far too much of the falling down water in various hostelries has turned my six-pack into a firkin!

Jon - I take your point in that it is normally the one person who gets on my nerves regarding 'snigger/snoggers' seeing as I'm one of that band, so I'd like to apologise for painting everybody with that particular brush.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:24 AM

But Ian, like you cannot *bear* Smilies...I love them...and so...he locked the door.

Was that were you you were posting rows and rows of smilies per post, had a polite request from the site owner to be more sparing with thier use and continued with your "smilie abuse" despite the fact you knew that lines of smiles were annoying the site owner.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:03 AM

I could get into fRoots board anytime Jon. I *choose* not to. I have no argument anymore with Ian Anderson, we agree totally over Myspace at least. But Ian, like you cannot *bear* Smilies...I love them...and so...he locked the door. I never said anything rude on fRoots. I did mention Show of Hands...once...and that was also enough to send his BP up! ;0) Basically Ian has er..banned more people than are left on there. It's a very quiet board, filled with er...self named intellectual types.

Oh..and that quote from the new "Whoopppeee! Let's slag Lizzie Off" thread that has just started over on Radio 2 was put there by another of The Weird Ones from the Music Club, needless to say, he's over on that board, trying to direct people over to the F&A board to join in.

But Jon, I've have been bullied so much lately, that it is now Water Off A Duck's Back! I have had to learn to wrap myself away so tightly from foul words and twisted minds. It got to me...OH HOW it got to me....but never again. NEVER will I let people whose souls are filled with bitterness ever harm my soul again!

So, if I were you, I'd go back with Fiona and all the other Guests or new names who may appear on here, join in that thread, which breaks every House Rule going...and have a thoroughly enjoyable day.

Personally, I'd prefer to write, as I so love to do, about this soul soaring music that has become so important to me.

Thanks very much Jon.




And John, (John Barden to avoid confusion) thank you for your kind words. Yes, I'll come and find you and give you a hug! (that's if, The Weird Ones haven't 'got me' first of course!)

;0) Chuckle!! ;0)

Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:27 AM

John, let's not confuse the issue. The snigeer snog write comment is not people but just one person. Few bother to critice or Lizze for matters of taste but get fed up with her crusades, Most accept people's tastes vary.

Here is a comment from the BBC F&A board this morning.

"I think the person in question has ruled out a return to this board but I'm not holding my breath.
Recently this board has been quieter but a good deal more civilised and with a greater variety of posters.
I'm very sorry to see that the infant Music Club board has turned into a war zone (all in the name of 'passion')within a few short days."

This is a good indication of the effects Lizzie has and is having on other boards (of which, outside the BBC, she is banned at least from froots). And no, this is not happening because she likes SOH.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Barden of England
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:11 AM

I'm with you Lizzie, although I too think the word 'racism' is a little over the top and that 'prejudice' is probably what you are really trying to say. I also do sometimes think that you can push SOH a bit too much, but you obviously are enthusiastic about them and their music, as am I. I too feel agrieved when people try the put down of 'Take your MOR and snigger/snoggers' in amongst most of their posts. What the hell is wrong with MOR or singer/songwriters? There are many singer/sogwriters who would pass their very blinkered view to my mind, but there you go, and who moderates what is 'Middle of the Road'? We live in a broad church and all the better for it. To my mind it is far better to just say 'I don't like' than to just show ignorance by that petty put-down.
By the way Lizzie - don't just pass us by at the Bedford Sessions at the next Sidmouth Festival. Come in and have a listen - and introduce yourself to me. Just ask for me by name - they know me.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:47 AM

She's got more false identities than a tone-deaf, professional people smuggler

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:37 AM

At least Lizzie has the courage NOT to hide her identity, unlike the cowardly guest above.

eric

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:38 PM

> "take your highly ludicrous, and as always, deeply insulting, personal comments back to the Radio 2 F&A board, I, and I'm sure others, would be much happier."

Lizzie, YOU take YOUR highly ludicrous, and as always, deeply insulting, personal comments back to the Radio 2 F&A board. I, and I'm sure others, would be much happier.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:27 PM

: This is from my first message on this thread:
: "And could it please be possible for any of the Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang
: Of Pathetic Suspects' to not come on this thread to hurl their usual
: 'She's A Troll!' abuse at me."

I have never heard of this person before but I know *exactly* what to think when somebody comes across like that at the start of a discussion.

Go away.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:10 PM

Don't blame the media. Unless you're proposing some grim conspiracy, which is highly unlikely, IMO. Any genre of music gets attention in proportion to the bills it pays. Perhaps it galls you to think of the music you love as "niche" but there it is.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:19 PM

Trouble is this music is not being played in the media is it? It USED to be, but now...it's not.

And unless people go on general music boards and jump and down about that fact, all over the place, write in, write to papers etc. whatever it takes, things will never change!

Folk music is JUST music, same as any other genre. It has every right to be discussed openly on a BBC board which states quite clearly that it is for discussion of music that you love and have a passion for. I shouldn't be 'hounded' because I dare to go over there and talk about people they may never have heard of. WHAT is that all about?

Mudcat is a wonderful place, filled with some lovely people, but it's *only* known about in the folk world. Again..closed doors, fences etc....

This music is way too good to keep shut away.

You may be happy to see it lying in the media's gutter, but I'm not. I know of so many talented people and bands, who, perhaps years ago, would have been 'out there' yet now, they feel, to borrow some ideas from John Young and his band (prog rock) as if they are 'strangers in their own land'

It needs to change. (at least, in my opinion)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:14 PM

I am with you, Lizzie, even if the term ;racism; is not quite the right one. It is not just BBC music boards but the establishment in general. If you say you would rather have Jez Lowe than Ladysmith Black Mbazo you are a 'racist'. If you like North West Morris instead of Albanian ethnic dancing you are accused of being against immigration!

It winds me up no end. It is what the right wing nutters use as examples of why the country is 'going to the dogs'. It is seldom the ethic minorities themselves who accuse us of these things either. It is the politicaly correct, offend no-one brigade that make matters worse.

If people would rather have English folk music than Reggae why should they be called racists? If they prefer fish and chips to rogan josh why call them blinkered? If they will not listen to or eat different things at all then by all means educate them. But if they have tried and still prefer English stuff, don't decry them for it.

There, got it of my chest. Step down from the soap box:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:36 PM

I'm afraid I'm just an ignorant Yank, but educate me: why in hell should ANY particular forum necessarily be forced against its wishes to cater to any particular community who don't seem to be interested in whatever the forum's stated focus is, but who want to focus on something else? No doubt there are people who drop into the mudcat now & again and wish there were more stuff going on here about indie-punk, but there are tons of places devoted to indie punk so why should it upset anyone? (Speaking of Indie punk, look up BravoFuckingBravo, great band, currently touring the US after successful completion of college freshman year by a couple of the member one of whom looks a lot like me)

The point I'm asking I guess is, if this or that particular board doesn't cotton to the kind of palaver ya fancy, why go there? Come here. Screw 'em if they can't talk acoustic.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:52 PM

Fiona, please read my first post about the Radio 2 gang of pathetic suspects coming over here to insult. If you want to insult me in your usual manner, I would suggest you PM me and spare other people you ignorant comments. I won't open your PM's, but at least you will be able to get it off your chest.

And if I could just point out that at least I have not had to change my name, as you have, from 'fiona nic' to 'faerie nuff' to avoid being tracked back to some damning posts. So PLEASE do not lecture me on behaviour, when you were one of the very instigators of such unpleasantness on that board. Please check out the 'Is This Board Rubbish?' and 'Enough Is Enough' threads, amongst others, if you've forgotten.

Oh and as far as Vinnie James goes....you know nothing whatsoever about him, or how Myspace works for him or for others. When you care as much as he and others do and can write songs such as they are writing, then and only then would I perhaps contemplate listening to what you have to say.

And now...if you would kindly take your highly ludicrous, and as always, deeply insulting, personal comments back to the Radio 2 F&A board, I, and I'm sure others, would be much happier.

However, if you have *anything* worthy to say on the subject of this thread then please feel free to contribute.

Thank you.

Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:24 PM

FILM STAR: THE EASY LIFE
(Attributed to one V.Jones)   

I'll grant at football I'm past my best.
So from sport I may have to take a rest.
I've a new way to support my sons,
With lock, stock, and my two smoking guns"
       CHO: Toor-a-loora-la, toor-a-loora-lie
             Toor-a-loora-la, toor-a-loora-lie
             I've a new way to support my sons,
             With lock, stock, and two smoking guns"


"My latest film now is "X-Men 3"
And those X-Men may get the best of me.
Professor X reads my every thought,
Yes, it's Vinnie Jones as the Juggernaut!
       CHO: Toor-a-loora-la, toor-a-loora-lie
             Toor-a-loora-la, toor-a-loora-lie
             Professor X reads my every thought,
             Yes, it's Vinnie Jones as the Juggernaut!"




Sorry... thread creep!

Nigel

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Fiona
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:01 PM

Would it please be possible to refrain from using the word 'racism' in this way? It's quite the wrong word, nor are people who disagree with you 'twits'.

eric the red is quite wrong, you've not been 'banned' and are only being pre-moderated because of your behaviour.

As for Vinnie James is it the norm on myspace for artists to ask folk to send them money 'to support a European tour'? It looks like a scam to me.

fx

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:22 AM

This is from my first message on this thread:

"And could it please be possible for any of the Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang Of Pathetic Suspects' to not come on this thread to hurl their usual 'She's A Troll!' abuse at me."

Thank you.


And now....an apology:

This is for the mysterious 'Guest' in messages 4,7 and 9, who picked me up over getting Vinnie James surname wrong. I said Jones! (oh the embarrassment!)....and I then, in exasperation, referred to said Guest as Guest Plonker.

I shouldn't have done that, not only was it uncalled for, but you were being very funny, I just 'saw red' at the time and didn't see the humour.

So...I'm very sorry if I upset you by calling you a Plonker....it was wrong...and you were right...it WAS funny, as were your posts....I COULD certainly use Vinnie Jones on the BBC boards, as you suggested...particularly on the thread over there, of a similar name to this one.

So...here's a big (((XXX))) for you instead!

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 07:05 PM

Secondly, despite a few hurtful posts over there from you Jon, particularly lately

Over where Lizzie? Not the BBC F&A I've only posted to 3 threads since I took a break from the place in April and I can't recall making a single comment directed at you in that time.

I've no wish to dictate to anyone what bands anyone enjoys or don't enjoy and am open to the fact that one's definition of what is folk differs from anothers. None of these things are problems to me.

Where I have had a problem with you is simply that when you know something is causing out and out mayhem, you seem to delight in doing it more. You even described one set of rows as fun, etc. In my earlier days at the BBC, I used to try to defend you and would atill defend your rights to like SOH, state an opinion that differs to mine, etc. but not to do so 20 times over for the sake of a row, and not to defend one single person's unwillingness to give and take a little.

I'm sorry I reached the opinion I have of you Lizzie, but it wasn't for trying to reason with you.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:30 PM

These are Jon's words I was referring to, they didn't appear in the post above.

From Jon:

"Apart from getting banned and having duplicate membership identities, it has included several repeated rants and or/crusades in the F & A, perpetual SOH promotion etc. My initail reaction knowing that is perhaps you have just been pissing people off again."

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:26 PM

I think the North East has a far stronger sense of identity than most other regions in the country. And to overlook you like that....makes me fair seethe! But then...I'm doing a lot of that lately I'm afraid.

From Jon:

<<<>>>

First of all Jon, I have posted very little about Show of Hands on the new BBC boards which have been up and running for over a year now. And the *only* reason that the whole Show of Hands thing started in the first place was that from the very first day I arrived on that board all hell broke loose about them, apparently because I DARED to talk positively about Steve and Phil...and EXACTLY the same thing is now happening on the Music Club board..it is uncanny!

Secondly, despite a few hurtful posts over there from you Jon, particularly lately, I have, not once *ever* behaved in such a manner to you. Perhaps you'd care to think on that, before posting any more words like the ones above, however it is your freedom to think of me in whatever way that seems to make you happy.

As far as your words 'pissing people off' go, I'll just say that I have always written, and will continue to write, in the way that I have a right to and that is, the way which is entirely natural to me. I will *never* write as others tell me to, nor will I write ONLY about the subjects or artists you or your friends so desire or deem to be 'acceptable'

And, if you care to remember I started a thread where I quite openly listed and admitted to the names that I had, just before Mel let me back on under my original name. Don't you remember? Surely you do....Naughty Lizzie, Show of Hands Susie, Elsie (LC)....and for your information anyone can change their 'nickname' at anytime on the BBC board these days, it is on the screen each time you post. Mind you, they've fixed mine now...ever since I changed my name to 'Thegirltheycouldn'thang' after those two weeks of unadulterated bullying that went on.

I am my own person and I refuse to be turned into a Stepford Wife by a few fiercely controlling people who inhabit messageboards! And if that is, to use your words again, 'pissing people off' well.....Hard Luck!

Anyway, this is not about me, it is about whether folk music should be spoken about freely and openly on all BBC boards, and in all places.

Oh..and Eric, many thanks for your kind words.

Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Tootler
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 05:34 PM

Tootler....that's bad isn't it! When are we going to realise that the music of ALL of us is important and that the English come under World/Roots music right alongside everyone else.

Absolutely. Especially as the traditional music scene is particularly vibrant here in North East England and there is a distinctive local repertoire of both songs and traditional dance tunes plus there are probably more people than ever playing Northumbrian Pipes (not me, unfortunately - I have enough on coping with my Anglo ).

We also have Folkworks encouraging and supporting traditional music and running classes and workshops plus an excellent set of summer schools.

If that's not Roots music what is?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:52 AM

Lizzie, I would agree the BBC boards have terrible troubles with mods (usualy every inconsistant and at times illogical and plain wrong application of the house rules) and that the house rules are too rigid and they can make some discussions on folk music impossibe.

I however see nothing wrong in some segragation and desire to keep boards reasonably on topic. I believe this is far more important at the BBC than most Internet forums simply because of thier volume of traffic and the number of specaiist areas they try to cater for.

Dave Hanson has given his view above, comparing the BBC to Mudcat but I don't think that comparison takes all factors into account. Although, personally I do perfer increased breakdown of categories into logical areas, Mudcat is small enough to cater for all its discussion into 2 areas without to many problems but I don't believe it would be workable on the BBC site which under it's current structure I believe has hundreds of areas each with it's own followers whether it be football, cricket, various forms of music, individual tv and radio programs, local interest disucssion for each county, etc.

To drift breiefly into censorship and Dave's comments, Mudcat is not going to make the national headlines or get sued for posts in their forums, etc. Applied badly, or otherwise, I can see needs to be tighter than here.

If there is abosolute refusal to allow any OT comments at all in some of the BBC boards, it is something I would probably disagree with but I can't say I've experienced problems with the occasional aside in any of their boards I have used or have I reference to non-folk, eg rock, music in the BBC folk and accoustic board.

Where I would be more likely to agree is if a board is getting bombarded with OT stuff. I haven't looked through the example given towards the top of the thread but I know your posting history in F&A well Lizie.

Apart from getting banned and having duplicate membership identities, it has included several repeated rants and or/crusades in the F & A, perpetual SOH promotion etc. My initail reaction knowing that is perhaps you have just been pissing people off again.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM

Lizzie, I may or may not agree with your opinions about SOH but NO-ONE has the right to CENSOR o BAN your opinions unles you are being offensive and I've never known you to be so.

At least here on the Mudcat you will be treat like an adult, and if someone has a go at you it's mostly done in fun, unlike the BBC boards.

eric

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 07:08 AM

Tootler....that's bad isn't it! When are we going to realise that the music of ALL of us is important and that the English come under World/Roots music right alongside everyone else.

Eric ;0)....The BBC boards are basically appallingly modded and they are, in my opinion, visited by small group of total control freaks! Freedom of discussion is not permitted, just take a look at what Paul Sherratt and his buddies have done to the Show of Hands one on the new Music Club board, and before you tell me I'm rabbitting on about SoH again and it puts people off, I merely chose them as my FIRST thread on there, because Johnnie Walker has started playing their music on his Sunday show over the last few weeks, plus Steve was recently on Radio 4 as 'Country Life' has been chosen for the soundtrack of a new film on the problems in the countryside. This was shown in the House of Commons last Monday....as always All Hell Broke Loose!! My first post has been removed btw, although WHY when I am on Pre-Mod in the first place, I have no idea!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3146306


I'm aiming to talk about loads of other people too, but keep following the BBC link above, as that discussion grows and watch the control freaks telling me that I musn't talk about folk music on any other board than the F&A one.

Oh...and last night, someone else started a thread on Karine Polwart on there...now interestingly, she's not been harrassed to death over that, as I am being over the SoH one...and it's raising interest as people over there don't know about Karine! I've put masses of info and links on about her in Message 3, but....the Mods still haven't allowed it on! Grrrrrrr...!

Those boards could be used for such good! They could open up so many closed minds and get people thinking! But no....they are controlled by The Weird Ones and the BBC is happy to let it happen.

Folk music has been held in a box for way too long, English music in particular, often being kept locked away by the very control freaks I'm talking about. Well....the time has come to throw the box away and let it out.

*BUT* it won't get out if everyone sits on boards for er...folk music, where you are all talking only to each other.....

TALK TO THOSE WHO **DON'T KNOW!**

For....."Without our stories or our songs, how will we know where we came from?" Steve Knightley 'Roots'


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:25 AM

Lizzie, you of all people should know what a pile of crap BBC message boards are, and as to the BBC attitude to folk music, it plays what it plays because it is OBLIGED to by it's charter, the BBC would be happy if it could get away with just playing pop and classical.

eric

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Tootler
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 06:41 PM

Lizzie,

If you really want to see the Beeb's attitudes to our Folk Music, follow this link and click on "Roots".

Whose music do you notice is missing?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 05:14 PM

This is a link to the BBC 'Music Club' board, where I started a similar thing earlier on:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3163834&latest=1#p36636632

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 02:12 PM

I agree with you Lizzie.
Why should the musical elite declare a rich and varied genre to be unworthy of consideration alongside their stuff?
Thanks for raising the issue.
keith.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:56 PM

So much good music so little time!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:48 PM

Thanks Les. ((xx))

Sometimes I just get so exasperated that this music is hidden away. But I'm going to keep on keeping on over there and to hell with the lot of them!

And Guest Plonker above, you're right Mr. Jones IS a great folk singer...

I'll start a thread on Nic over there shortly! It's way overdue that more people knew about his music too!


:0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:08 PM

I guess some people would rather spot a typo than address a difficult and important point Lizzie.

In reality many genre of music blend from one to another. It suits the BBC to compartmentalise music for resons of their own. As a consequence they compartmentalise the forums (fora?).

It makes for drab exchanges that relect narrow, drab music. The Mudcat, now that's a bit different. You can say anything you like on here and some people will ignore your central theme and go for the typo! I poked fun at somebody or other yonks ago was accused of "causing trouble on websites"!

Keep posting, you know you have a good point, deep breathing?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:00 PM

so then Lizzie..

if you ever need any help in 'persuading'disagreeable BBC forum users......


http://www.pwagroup.com/celebs/celebs.asp?filter=Actors&celeb=324



BTW.. now you put the idea in my head..

I seriously think Mr Jones could be an excellent folk singer
and ideal personality for popularising
the more 'manly' aspects of our folk music culture

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 12:11 PM

Sorry!!

Vinnie JAMES!!!


VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES!


(Oh Shucks! How Embarrassing Smiley!)

;0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

It may be ghettoisation, but it isn't racism.

Lizzie, you do remember who the other Vinnie Jones is don't you?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:51 AM

lizzie.. for flips sake !!??

"Take for instance this wonderful man..Vinnie Jones, a blend of Bruce Springsteen and Martin Luther King:"


now go pour yourself a cool glass of pop
and calm down a bit

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:46 AM

Sigh!

Are you happy to have F&A music never discussed openly on any other BBC board than the F&A one?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:34 AM

errrmm.. proof read your own writing
before flying off your broomstick handle dizzy lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:30 AM

If you're going to insult artists, I'd suggest you have the guts to at least identify yourself, Cowardly 'Guest' And...for your information:

From Vinnie's 'All American Boy' CD, his song 'Freedom Cried'

"...I remember the red man he was proud and free. Down through the years he's been a real good friend to me. I let him sell me almost everything he had. Then I just took the rest when times got bad.

Then freedom cried and she kept me up all night......

I remember the black man, he was tall and strong. I always knew I couldn't hold him down for long. I never understood why I made him a slave. He never understood the reasons I gave...."

So I'd suggest you do some research and get to know his music and beliefs before you start hurling your negative words around!



But, as usual this is getting off thread....can we try and keep to the subject if possible.

Are you happy to have F&A music never discussed openly on any other BBC board than the F&A one?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Different guest
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:24 AM

I'm with Ernest. You aren't using the word racism in a fair way.

Music prejudice, yes. But while music prejudice does sometimes rise to the level of racism, it doesn't in this particular context.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:19 AM

Vinnie Jones.. folk singer !!??

I'd imagine he'd do great versions of macho trad songs
about shooting and fighting..

.. and more shooting and fighting

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:10 AM

Ernest, I take your point. However......it is folk and acoustic music that has the guts to stand up and shout out about racism in the first place.....and that message, along with all the others within it..is NOT being allowed to get out!

Take for instance this wonderful man..Vinnie Jones, a blend of Bruce Springsteen and Martin Luther King:

http://www.myspace.com/vinniejames

His songs are all about man's inhumanity to man! Vinnie is part African/part Native American, so I'm sure he knows all about racism.
Take a look at his blogs on slavery and the 'n' word, he's trying to get it taken out of the dictionary, and quite right too!

But if the twits over on the Music Club board got their way, I'd not be allowed to tell people about Vinnie's music, which has the power to spread a wonderful message...and that CAN'T be right!

There is only ONE type of music...and that should be spoken about by all of us, no matter what it may be. Vinnie's music is deeply important as is the music of many others in the folk and acoustic world.

It just makes me fume that it is not having a voice out there in mainstream radio and TV....and it's time it was changed!


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Ernest
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:48 AM

Special interest. Please stop using the term "racism" inflationately. Real racism is not as harmless as the question if a kind of music is played during daytime.
Best wishes
Ernest

Subject: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:36 AM

Are you all happy for Folk And Acoustic music to be only spoken about on the Folk and Acoustic board?

...or do you want your music to be out there alongside everybody else? Played in *mainstream* BBC radio programmes, from Radio 1 to Radio 6?

I'm coming up against Music Racism on the new 'Music Club' board, as apparently, despite it being a place where they invite you to talk about music for which you have 'a passion and love'....I'm NOT allowed to talk about Show of Hands or Seth Lakeman as I've been told that they (and I presume therefore many others too) should only be discussed on the F&A board!

So...are you into Music Racism? Or do you believe in One Music?

And do you think that World Music should be on Radio 2 mainstream as well?

And could it please be possible for any of the Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang Of Pathetic Suspects' to not come on this thread to hurl their usual 'She's A Troll!' abuse at me.

..I LOVE this music...so darn well get over it guys!

What do you think? Music Racism or One Music?


Lizzie :0)