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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Lil' Kiwi Date: 17 Jul 06 - 12:05 PM Just like 'In the Name of The Father' and 'Bloody Sunday' heck, even 'Braveheart' for that matter - I again observe (yes, even from NZ) British people having issues dealing with their shameful history. I have just seen this movie for the second time. It has had 2 screenings here in Auckland (New Zealand) as part of the 'International Film Festival' we have here annually. The first screening was pretty much sold out and received solid applause, the final screening in Auckland, at least 85% of seats were attended (I understand this goes on to another city or 2 in NZ too). This is a well written and (rarely) honestly written piece of such a tragic historic era of a country. I had to see it a second time as I was too blown away emotionally seeing it the first time to get a grip on the underlying story. There were people visibly upset by this movie throughout the theatre too. New Zealand could not be socially or geographically further from Ireland than it is - however I feel Loach if anything, toned down the Black & Tans violence in the film (which I understand RTE Live Line listeners would have heard Loach himself say too about 2 weeks back). I don't think the debate/arguement of who killed how many of who is relevant here in this instance. For those of you pro-Brit or what-not hung up on such figures - why doesn't the Republican case throw in the number of civilians that died from famine too? (rhetorical question!) The fact there is an unlawful military and opppressive (continuing) pressence in a sovereign country is just plain wrong and the history does nothing less of illustrating this. (bring on November!) Upon seeing this film (and following up with some studying of my own), how else does one wonder why the IRA has had so much public support? So few movies (or even documentaries for that matter!) have made one think so much. Good on ya Ken. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 17 Jul 06 - 12:26 PM Glad you enjoyed it GUEST,Lil' Kiwi. Wonderful film and very true to fact. Yes this is what the people of my Island had to live with and let me tell you it was no easier throughout the 70's and 80's. The British really hate to see films like this, as the truth hurts ! Best wishes from Ireland Seamus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Jul 06 - 12:51 PM Still looking forward to seeing here in Manchester - Can't seem to find it though. How did 'Braveheart' get through to that list, L'il Kiwi - I could take your post a lot more seriously if you did the same;-) Out of interest though, while Longshanks was stuffing the Scots in the south of Scotland the Irish were doing similar in the North. Funny the film glosses over that by showing them as allies against the English isn't it:-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Jul 06 - 04:44 PM Two questions Li'l kiwi. Why "unlawful"? What made you think that the IRA ever had a lot of support? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Jul 06 - 04:49 PM Sorry, I just thought of a third question. Would you support an armed terrorist struggle by the Maori people against white domination? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Jul 06 - 04:58 PM Very sorry, one more. You posted at 0405 local time. Trouble sleeping? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: ard mhacha Date: 17 Jul 06 - 05:07 PM Lil Kiwi, It is no surprise that the film played to a large audience in NZ, and it is also no surprise that this great film won the top prize at Cannes. To those people who haven`t seen the film, don`t form an opinion until you do, you may be surprised. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,beachcomber Date: 17 Jul 06 - 05:24 PM Keith, you asked Lil Kiwi why he thought that the IRA were well supported. I do not know very much about the IRA, their activities, policies or membership from 1956 up to date but, I have lived with the stories of too numerous relatives, friends and acquaintances not to be certain that the Volunteers of the "Tan War" were given 90 - 95% support by the populace back then. They could not have struggled for as long as they did without that , nor without the tactics that they were forced to employ. (This was in spite of some of their leaders exhortations, that they should fight a "legitimate" War (whatever that is) against a vastly superior force) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Jul 06 - 05:41 PM but less than 20 years later, tens of thousands of young men from the free Republic of Ireland, flocked to join British forces to fight against Hitler and his ally, the IRA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:10 PM Good point beachcomber, the support has always been there for the I.R.A. When you consider the number of nationalist people that attended the funeral of Bobby Sands in 1981. The campaign would ever have ran without the support of the people, believe me unlike some I was there on the ground. Always best to address any questions to those here that know what they are talking about, otherwise you will attract the type that have to search the net for some British sponsored report and then select little bits out of it, if this happens just ignore it, the rest of us do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Lil' Kiwi Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:14 PM 1: Why 'why unlawful?' Did they not arrive by force in the first place?... 2: The existence/survival of such a group for so long requires this from the general population around it. And people like beachcomber have answered this better than I probably could. (Thanks beachcomber) The IRA is longer 'fighting' as times have changed in Ireland. In my opinion there is Sinn Fein as the best alternative to the gun for Republicans. The reunification of Ireland is on its way and I do not see how the current situation of the Peace Process as such could have been attained without those that chose to fight on since the 20's. 3: The Maori were treated 'better' and differently than most other 'native' people in colonial days. Apart from their language I believe being banned from schools at some point in time, they were/are free to be completely open with their culture. NZ was much more 'settled' rather than colonised or invaded/conquered. The Land Wars that followed were about sovereignty not 'oppression vs resistance' as such. Under the right sort of oppressive conditions I would 'suppport armed terrorism' however with the country and conditions I live in, it is not necessary. On the Maori topic - they have their own seats in parliament AND their own political party with candidates for both those and the 'normal' seats. A Maori person can go on the General Electoral Roll or Maori Electoral Roll, but not both. 4: Guh. Stupid question. pog mo thoin! (did I get that right?) I mean really?! Who cares 'when' someone makes a post? Maybe I'm a shift worker for all you know. Maybe I'm not. Maybe it's a really ^&*&^%&^!!! question. Actually it is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:32 PM *I meant to say "....people like beachcomber AND Divis" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:33 PM * and "...IRA no longer fighting..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Big Mick Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:39 PM Ignore this idiot, LK. He seeks to whitewash the history of the North of Ireland at any cost. His favorite tactic, as in the question as to why you were up at that hour, is to shift the premise that the discussion is based on. I am not sure what relevance the hour you post at has, but it really demonstrates the intent of the question. K of A, no matter how you attempt to shift the argument to what's wrong with the IRA, the fact is that it was spawned by centuries of repression, occupation, and outright anti Catholic, anti Irish, bigotry. The Orange card, like the race card here in the States, was brought out to divide a people with like interests, namely the value of their labor. Later the Orange card was played for political reasons, namely maintaining the Orange MP's in this camp or that. But the end is near, and all the stuff being put out won't matter. The North of Ireland will have its government, and ultimately will be part of the Republic. And the way will be lead by Sinn Fein politicians who have dedicated themselves to the power of the ballot over the way of the gun. The so called Loyalists will continue to try and provoke them to return to violence, but the world is watching. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:50 PM I did fall for that 4th one didn't I? (learnt my lesson!) :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:57 PM Well said Mick. We are all aware of the Brussells plan to solve the situation here, British and Irish ministers are using the Europeans to pave a little deal within five years which will allow both governments to walk away with face, let time tell the tale ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Jul 06 - 07:17 PM Most of Ireland has been for the Irish since early last century. Hopefuly all of it will be in the very near future. Will New Zealand be owned by the Maori people in the same period? Much as I agree with lots of your argument LK I think you need to remove the beam from your own eye... Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Jul 06 - 07:24 PM Ken Loach just on telly a minute ago BBC4 - talking about his early days as an actor alongside Kenneth Williams in West End Review. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 17 Jul 06 - 07:30 PM Ta DtG. However, the Maori people have no desire to 'own' the whole country. Their 'issue' as I understand it is that the Treaty of Waitangi has not in some areas been fully honoured by the government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 17 Jul 06 - 07:57 PM Christ just had a guy tell me on another thread that the British concentration camps in South Africa during the Boer war were a one off, never repeated-hence,and was not British government policy. I must have f...... imagined that camp at Long Kesh that held hundreds of men for over four years without any charge or court appearance, known to most of you as internment ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Big Mick Date: 17 Jul 06 - 08:57 PM The Kesh, the Blocks, this is exactly what I am talking about. There is this concerted effort to try and whitewash all that by changing the premise. Who was it that said if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth? Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:01 AM L Kiwi, If you had been following these discussions in recent weeks, you would know that we have been plagued by Guests who turn out not to be who they claim to be. There is no reason why you should not make your first ever post at 4 o'clock on a winter's morning, but it made me wonder. Beachcomber, my reply to you was too brief. I know that the Tans were at least as bad as Loach portrays them. Revulsion at their behaviour should have driven people to support the IRA. But the IRA committed apalling atrocities too that also revolted decent people. I have read that the film glosses over this and therein lies its imbalance. When support for IRA was put to the test in 1939, the people turned their backs on them. Nationalists will soon be the majority vote in NI. Unity will follow. Good. Previously IRA were a minority of a minority. Unity was not brought a day nearer by any of the bombs they planted or people they shot. It is literally true that they would have achieved it sooner by making love instead of war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:42 AM I don't agree at all. I think British & Unionist actions have proven much otherwise. If you really feel as such though, I'd like to know then what was the alternative before recent times? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:21 AM http://www.historyireland.com/magazine/features/13.3FeatA.html Kiwi, Ithink that unity would have had to wait for a Nationalist majority, but everything else up to and beyond good Friday agreement etc. could have been achieved decades ago by the non violent Civil Rights movement had it not been hijacked by IRA. Such a belief in not conducive to proof, but look at what the US Civil Rights movement achieved. Sweeney, did you mean me when you said"the type that have to search the net for some British sponsored report and then select little bits out of it," If so please say so and withdraw it. I have only posted one such in recent years. It was from an Irish History journal, by a lecturer in Irish History at the Irish University. Pro British? His sources are all given and are all Republican publications. I did cut some bits but only because there is a maximum 2 screen paste in rule. Here is a link to the article.http://www.historyireland.com/magazine/features/13.3FeatA.html I hope that people will read and see if I changed the meaning with my small cuts. To those who say I am too confrontational, I ask how you would respond to lies told to discredit you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: ard mhacha Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:11 AM Two grat books on the Net, John McGuffin`s Internment and The Guinea Pigs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:15 AM Yes Lil' Kiwi you are correct in your views of the situation here.I remember the actions of the british forces of occupation in the North throughout my lifetime all too well. Read up on Plastic and rubber bullet murders of children, shot at point blank range by these brave men. Please read up on how the British worked hand in glove with the Loyalist paramilitaries in the murders of innocent Catholics. Never allow yourself to be put off by the odd irritant here, great to see you. Best wishes from Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Big Mick Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:16 AM Pure rubbish, Keith. Had there not been an armed struggle bringing light to the plight of the Catholic in the North of Ireland, the same old gerrymandered crap would have gone on and on. Had not the struggle gone on, there would have been nothing to draw the world's attention to the collusion between Crown forces, RUC, and the Orange militias. What dear old England wanted was for the Irish to be nice wee lads and lasses and let her exercise her mandate from God over their lives, property and country like good little colonials. And no one has told lies to discredit you, but rather the policies of your government. Your use of this tactic also discredits your arguments. You attempt to claim victim status, and thereby shift the focus. The focus must remain with the root of all the troubles. Your approach shows how disengenous your arguments are. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Paul Burke Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:44 AM Keith, I think we're at the point where "versions of history" play an important part. I don't think the Civil Rights movement was hijacked by the IRA. Indeed, the Official IRA was not campaigning at the time. It's more that the Civil Rights approach was killed by the reaction of the RIC- remember the B Specials? The IRA split when ethnic cleansing by the "Loyalists" started, and some people (in my opinion understandably) thought fighting back was more likely to stop it than singing We Shall Overcome. The siege of Bogside finally confirmed PIRA as the defenders of Nationalist areas. If what has happened since has been a rake's progress to gangsterism as many say, it wasn't how it started. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:05 AM Yes Paul and Mick. Alternate versions of history. Who knows. But the B Specials and the Stormont government were got rid of before the IRA killing machine got into high gear. I think and believe that steady progress would have followed any way, and quicker without the killing. I believe that the page of history had turned against the sectarian bigots of NI, just as it had against the racist bigots of the US southern states. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:19 AM Five European families either burned out or stoned out of their homes over the weekend here. All in Loyalist areas. A fifteen year old boy was beaten to death in a loyalist area five weeks ago, police said his only crime was being a Catholic. At the 12th bonfire in the area where this child was murdered, they burnt a mock up of him with the sign around his neck "Another good Cathoilc " History turning where exactly ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:28 AM I'm not to sure, Mick. These arguments about how things would have happened had things been different are nothing but speculation and have little use apart from an excercise in philosophy. I think that the British government today is as different from the ones of the 60's as can be and we would get a lot further now anyway but that, as I say, is beside the point. As you quite rightly say the governments involved should be concentrating on getting things right as soon as possible. This type of film and documentary will always raise blood pressures on all sides. I class myself as English (even though I am only 1/4 that nationality!) and do not find any shame in anyone pointing out that the successive governments of my country committed some shameful acts. They committed the same acts on the ordinary working people of their own country. It should be understood, by everyone, that the ordinary man in the street in Manchester, Munster or Mumbai has nothing to do with these ridiculous power struggles. That our governments have got an enormous ammout of people hating the British/Irish/Moslem/Jew is a testament to how effective they have been. What we need to do is to stop believeing their lies and unite against any form of oppression. Fat chance unfortunatley. The bastards have us too well controlled for that:-( One point in the favour of the British government. They have shown how well things can be done. Ask our friend from New Zealand - he has already pointed out that the Maoris are quite happy. It was a British treaty that gave them their status so perhaps they are not all bad after all:-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:59 AM That's pretty much it regarding NZ. They were treated from equals right from the start. Never oppressed and quite openly took on European ways into their own culture too whether that be clothing or games etc. A sort of integration/assimilation (right words?) and even mixed marriages from very early on too. (I once had a girlfriend of Maori/Welsh mix, and damn is she a hot thang!) Yes, let's unite against oppression. Fight for freedom, justice & peace. A world of different cultures, but equal peoples. Dreams are free, but we can do stuff - just gotta get out there and actually DO IT :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 07:03 AM Sweeney, I know that there are still some bad people. There always will be. And some racists still in Alabama too I expect. But things have changed. No thanks to IRA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:28 AM K.A.H. Who's it down to then ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:38 AM The changes in my Ireland have been brought about by public opinion throughout the world. The fact that Irishmen would NEVER lay down under your hate filled army told the world what we were made of. I honour each and every one of our volunteers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Fiolar Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:58 AM I'm not sure if I posted this recently but I understand that some of the top folk in the Orange Order are considering turning the 12th of July marches into a carnival type operation in the same way as the Notting Hill one in London. Pigs might fly? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:04 AM Fiolar, this is a old ploy to get government grants. The nationalists in Belfast make a great carnival each March and the world attend it. So they are trying to get in on the act. They are hate filled beyond belief. I worked with two of them for years and got on well. When my mother died a few years back both of them came to my home to pay their respects. They told me together that they would not be attending the funeral as they do not enter the Catholic Church ! Christ better if they had said nothing. I go to all funerals, even D.U.P. ones ! Says more about them I feel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:09 AM The changes in my Ireland have been brought about by public opinion throughout the world. I absolutely agree sweeney. IRA atrocities alienated some public opinion, but the old bigotted regime would not have been tolerated any more. L'il Kiwi, Your last post made me think of a song I sometimes do. Somewhere in Otago by Martin Wyndham- Reeves. Do you know it? It has the lines I met a girl of Maori blood, She'll be good for me I know, Think I'll wed and settle down, Somewhere in Otago. Sorry I was supicious of you at first. We really have had some frauds on here. I hope you will think about joining. We are not always like this. If you do, expect some Mr. Nice Guy private messages from sweeney. You have just seen how slickly he tells a lie, and when confronted, ignores it and carries on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:22 AM I've already 'joined' - well, enough so that there is no longer 'guest' attached to my nic. I think that's rather sly of you to add "We are not always like this. If you do, expect some Mr. Nice Guy private messages from sweeney. You have just seen how slickly he tells a lie, and when confronted, ignores it and carries on." Tut tut tut! Not cool dude. I shall freely make up my own mind as I always do. I never let petty things such as that sort of comment of yours influence me one way or other. One thing I like about the geographic isolation of NZ is that it allows significant events to be 'viewed' as part of the bigger picture (unless something happens here or to us directly) and things like bias and coersion can be left aside, well once you've sifted through the news media that isn't controlled by certain groups. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:37 AM Blimey. I don't often get called dude. Welcome to Mudcat. keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: ard mhacha Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:45 AM He may have seen that photo of you playing at soldiers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:59 AM Oh dear. I got off lightly then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:43 AM Lil' Kiwi hope you got my message this morning okay ? Please take the advice ! Don't feel you have to ever answer any stupid silly questions here, like "Can't you sleep" we all just ignore them. It's always nice to see people from other countries visit and listen to the true facts about that the English did in Ireland. Sometime you should consider starting a thread of your own, but be warned, a certain member is well noted for posting as a guest to support his rubbish claims when he finds it's going against him ! don't be put off by this, it's the norm to the rest of us here and we expect it. Anything you want to know about Ireland please just ask, those of us who know what we are talking about are always glad to help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Big Mick Date: 18 Jul 06 - 11:16 AM Fair enough, DtG. I will buy that as an honest explanation. I have always said that when one looks at the history of Ulster fairly, then they will understand that historically this has very little to do with Catholic/Protestant or Loyalist/Republican Nationalist. It's roots lie in the industrialist mentality that felt as though their rights to profits were God given and that the working class were the tool given to them to be used as they saw fit. When the working class, Protestant and Catholic alike, started to realize they had more in common than not, the English industrialists played the card that is with us today. As this whole phenomenon interbred with itself it was twisted into the intellectual wreckage that is strewn all about 6 counties. At the very root, of course, it goes all the way back to the plantation policies, but the catalyst, or straw that broke the back, lies squarely in the industrial age. That is why it is easy for the English apologists to use demagogery to make their points. There is several centuries of acts to choose from. But when one approaches it with an overview, it is clear who the villain is and what the solution is. It is also clear where, thanks be to God, it will end. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 06 - 11:40 AM Still happening today, Mick. I would hazzard a guess that given the choice of George W or Osama Bin Laden most of your countrymen (and mine for that matter!) would choose the former. Hide your evils by giving people a greater one to hate. Happens all the time. Even here on mudcat! ;-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,DB Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:59 PM A load of IRA worshipping rubbish. Hang the murderers I say! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:27 PM Go on guest DB, get it off your chest, I really love to hear it ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:33 PM I guess that is the same 'GUEST,DB' that refers to Moslems as 'fermenting leper shit'? A fine caring human being if ever there was one. :D (tG) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:34 PM Keith A, the King of Thread Drift and the Prince of Petty... A 'more balanced' account would involve re-writing history, Keith, and I know how you would hate to be accused of being guilty of such. Do people who get mistreated by the British Army, automatically become guilty of subversion, in your eyes? Supporting your boys in the Gulf would lend tacit support for such an inference |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:34 PM 100 so there! |
