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BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 23 Jul 06 - 02:31 PM You may judge me to be a moron and to therefore have no rights and agree totally that anonymous fellow posters should close threads, my posts should be deleted and subject to all forms imposed censorship with no indication or explanation. But what of other posters? Recently posts from (at least) two other posters were also deleted along with mine (in addition to the entire threads that were also closed). These were not offensive posts and neither of these posters would be generally considered as morons. One of them later indicated that they were OK with this - having seen the explanation provided by the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team as to why their post was deleted and after I had brought this fact to their attention. They did not seem to care that I or others may not be not be OK with this treatment - but that it a matter for them. But if the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has his way - in this new stepped up censorship move (justified as being what Mudcatters want) - there would have been no indication that censorship action had been imposed nor any explanation given as to the reasons. Can all forms of imposed censorship actions in future be indicated and a brief explanation provided? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: John MacKenzie Date: 23 Jul 06 - 12:49 PM Please note Roger and Azizi another silly childish post that was racially incorrect, and also I'm sure a lie, (as with Guest personality he couldn't get laid at a whore's wedding), was deleted prior to Kendall's post. I saw it so it was there! Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: kendall Date: 23 Jul 06 - 12:13 PM Are you on some kind of kick that you know will be deleted? What is your game anyway? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Clinton Hammond Date: 23 Jul 06 - 11:29 AM If anybody who helped run this place had HALF a stone in their sack, "Shambles" would have been banned a long time ago.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Azizi Date: 23 Jul 06 - 11:18 AM Alba, imo, your 23 Jul 06 - 10:31 AM post serves as an example as to why Mudcat needs a succient reason for a message being deleted [like the reasons Giok listed] In that post you are referring to a post that is no longer in existence, but apparentely was racist/sexist with regard to Welsh woman. I'm wondering if that original message was deleted, and a message as to the reason for the deletion placed there instead, would you have still had the same need to write your 23 Jul 06 - 10:31 AM post? Maybe. But imo, having that message would tell that poster to cease his/her posting of such vile messages because we at Mudcat are aware he or she is doing it and in no way do we condone it. But again, this is just my opinions. To use a saying I learned here at Mudcat, your mileage may vary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: John MacKenzie Date: 23 Jul 06 - 11:02 AM Roger you are making less and less sense with every post, your 10:29 is totally paranoid. G. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: number 6 Date: 23 Jul 06 - 10:58 AM "However, there are times when posters will test the limits of civil discourse, and completely go over those limits with regards to racist, sexist, profane, spam, personal attacks etc. I'm grateful that we have moderators who can and do remove such posts." I'm fully in agreement with Azizi .... we need the moderators, and yes, some threads and posts should be deleted if not for the sake of human decency. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 23 Jul 06 - 10:47 AM As are all women and men of any race, nationality or religion at risk obviously in any forum where people can posts slurs under the blanket of anon! It bothers you to called an abusive name by an anonymous fellow poster on our forum. Does it not bother you to have your posts deleted and threads closed by an anonymous fellow poster on our forum? Or would this not happen to you - as you are not a moron? And as it would not happen to you - the fact that it happens to others and all posters are not now to be treated equally - is not a concern? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 23 Jul 06 - 10:36 AM I think that non-morons would have less need of an explanation than morons. But as it is only the contributions of morons that are censored - by this definition any poster who has their contribution deleted - is a moron. And a moron of course has no rights......... But this word is just as meaningless (and damaging) as any other derisive term for a minority group. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Alba Date: 23 Jul 06 - 10:32 AM and...my cap lock is behaving rather oddly today..:) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Alba Date: 23 Jul 06 - 10:31 AM Welsh women are"easy"... I take it you mean "easy Prey" for rascist sexual misfits that prowl Forums. As are all women and men of any race, nationality or religion at risk obviously in any forum where people can posts slurs under the blanket of anon! As I HAVE said before, it is a relief that the Mudcat has such a gREAT Admin Team that are on the ball when it comes to this type Anon Flamers. Good point 23 Jul 06 - 09:53 AM . Thanks for bringing it up. Though it really does highlight the case for those that are of the opinion there should be no Guest posting on the Mudcat I suppose. Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 23 Jul 06 - 10:29 AM Also if that is the crap we DO get to see, all be in briefly, maybe it is just as well we don't have to read the crap that the Admin removes before we do huh! That, of course is what you are supposed to think and expected to be grateful for......... But anyone who has been online for any period will have just about seen it all and already had much of it arrive unannounced in their in box and ignored it. Good or bad - it is the online world and most of it is filtered automatically anyway. But how do we know the level and extent of all this we are supposed to be protected from on our forum? Because we are now told this by the 'we' who wish to carry on protecting us from it and who can't even trust us enough to be informed of their identity. The implication is that all the secrecy and division involved in having this unknown number and anonymous 'we' - is necessary because of the vast quantity and level of all this 'crap'......Is it? If our forum could see when and where all the occasions when 'crap' is deleted in our name and in order to protect us - we would all be able to judge if this secrecy and division was proportionate and worth the sacrifices that are being made to the public's freedom of expression on our forum. Without this information - any judgement posted here about the level of censorship being OK and worth the sacrifice - is worthless. There is always a balance to be struck and few of us have any idea if the current balance is about right - or totally over the top. If all censorship action taken from now on - were to be indicated and the reason why were briefly explained (even with a number code as suggested) - our forum would then be in a position to judge if the response being made was proportionate and worth the sacrifices being made to enable posters to be protected from making the decision ourselves what to read, respond to or ignore. Rather like 'the war on terrorism' - censorship on our forum seems to have little effect on the guilty but places more and more restrictions on those just trying to go about their business. Those who impose restrictions on us in the name of 'the war on terrorism' also ask and expect us to trust them. And of course we all do - don't we? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: GUEST,Jon Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:47 AM Do non-morons deserve an indication that censorship has taken place and an explanation for why? I think that non-morons would have less need of an explanation than morons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Alba Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:36 AM Also if that is the crap we DO get to see, all be in briefly, maybe it is just as well we don't have to read the crap that the Admin removes before we do huh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:36 AM Morons do not deserve an explanation...they know why their posts have gone and so do the Mudcatters that are unfortunate enough to seen those posts. Do non-morons deserve an indication that censorship has taken place and an explanation for why? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Alba Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:27 AM There was also a Racial/sexual slur posted on another Thread directed at Welsh Women last night. It was removed. No explanation given because the subhumans that post such garbage are fully aware of the hurt it causes and that is why they do so. Self moderating and contacting the help section to bring posts of this nature to the admin is, for me, the best way to go. Get the garbage out of the Mudcat quietly and without fuss. Best this kind of twisted hate is removed asap and the eegit that posted said garbage given no reponse. To bring the reasons up for removing hate posts simply starts a discussion which would be loaded and only cries out for yet more numb nuts with an obvious problem to come in and foul the Mudcat with their opinions. So Thanks Mudelfs and Thanks Joe for dealing with the Flamer last night quickly and stelth like. Morons do not deserve an explanation...they know why their posts have gone and so do the Mudcatters that are unfortunate enough to seen those posts. Nuff said IMO. One Love. One World. Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:26 AM I want to provide this input if the matter of posting succient messages in place of deleted messages is still open for public comment. I trust that everything is still open for public comment - as this is supposed to be a discussion forum for the public and it is said that.... We usually delete only personal attacks, racism, and spam. -Joe Offer- But that is 'we'. Joe Offer - the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has already told us in this thread that the step-up in providing no indication or explanation for where censorship action has been imposed - is the way it is going to be and a change to always indicating where this has occured - is NOT going to happen. Presumably because he does not wish to do it for the (rather weak) reasons he has stated but also because he states that Mudcatters wish it. Do they? And do their wishes matter anymore? Is it only the wishes of the mysterous and sinster sounding 'we' - that now matters? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Azizi Date: 23 Jul 06 - 08:47 AM A personal experience: Last night around 10ish there was a one word racist slur-the n word spelled out-that was posted by a Guest in a children's rhyme thread. I reported this to the Help thread and within minutes of my reporting it, it was gone. I am not saying that it was my posting to the Help thread which resulted in that post being removed. One or more moderator may have seen that message before I reported it. And one or more Mudcat Members and/or Guests may have directly contacted Joe Offer or another moderator to report the existence of that slur in that thread. Be that as it may, I am glad that someone quickly deleted that post. I want to publicly thank the moderator/s for that action. That slur may have been directed to African Americans, but it diminished the person posting it not me & not other African Americans. And imo, its continued presence in that thread would have diminished this forum. This is not to say that I think that the n-word should be removed from every Mudcat thread in which it is found. Imo, context is important. For instance, I understand when quoting lyrics and/or quoting or referring to folk cultural sayings some folks will spell out that word-and others like me will not. Imo, the use of that word would not necessarily call for that post's deletion. The context has to be considered for the use of that word. However, there are times when posters will test the limits of civil discourse, and completely go over those limits with regards to racist, sexist, profane, spam, personal attacks etc. I'm grateful that we have moderators who can and do remove such posts. I don't know if Giok was serious about his listing of reasons for deletions as indicated in his 23 Jul 06 - 06:04 AM post. But I am supportive of a public indication in that specific thread that a message has been deleted. For instance, if this were the case, that specific post in that children's rhyme would be there-with the date of the posting, and the poster's name [in the instance I am citing, one of the anonymous guests]. But the slur would be removed and be replaced by the message such as this one "this message has been deleted because of its use of a racial slur". I'm not suggesting this particular language, but I am suggesting some such language that puts the person on notice that his/her message was deleted because Mudcat has no tolerance for out of context use of racial slurs etc. I recognise that public indications of a message being deleted is Max's decision or is Joe Offer's decision because Joe has been given that authority by Max. However, I'm not sure if a final decision has been made about this matter. I want to provide this input if the matter of posting succient messages in place of deleted messages is still open for public comment. In my opinion, posting a public message that a post has been deleted for a specified reason shows that person who posted that unacceptable message-and the Mudcat community at large that Mudcat does not tolerate such language. By 'the Mudcat community at large', I include persons who have just recently joined Mudcat, persons who may be visiting Nudcat for the first time, and person who have been lurking on this forum for a while trying to decide if they will join or otherwise participate in our discussions. I think that it is important to replace an unacceptable post with a succient message as to why that post is unacceptable. Imo, this would serve as a deterrant for such postings. I also believe that it would help to encourage more persons from possibly targeted groups to visit and to post on Mudcat. I don't think that I'm the only one here who is trying to encourage more participation in Mudcat by African Americans and other people of color. Some African Americans who I have talked to have said that they have visited Mudcat. I think it's doubtful that they saw that particular example of unacceptable posting on Mudcat last night, because it was removed so quickly. But if they did see that slur, and went back to read that thread, they wouldn't find it [since that message was a way of refreshing an archived thread]. They know that the thread was there, but later it wasn't, and they also know that they saw what they saw. Imo, by not posting a succient, form-like message saying that that message was deleted and why, this forum is missing an opportunity to show that we mean it when we say that we don't tolerate the [out of context] use of such slurs. When I'm asked by African Americans I know is this community welcoming to Black people and other people of color, I say yes. I also explain to the best of my ability the distinction between in context and out-of-context use of the n-word. And I let people I'm talking to know that Mudcat doesn't tolerate the out-of-context use of that word or any other racist, sexist, or homophobic slurs. I don't deny that some slurs have appeared on this site-after all Mudcat is part of the real world. However, what is important-I think-is how we deal with such slurs when they appear. Again in my opinion, it would be helpful to show people that Mudcat is quickly on the case in deleting such posts, By posting a message in place of that slur, it lets people know that such post are not acceptable here. Although I feel strongly that it would be a good thing to have a public indication that such posts have been deleted, if the decision has been made not to post such messages in place of the deleted message, I will abide by that decision. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Alba Date: 23 Jul 06 - 08:14 AM Mucho Coffee required. Reminder to self: Drink Coffee then post, drink coffee then post!. Doesn't help my errors but it sure helps me ignore them! *double smirk!* Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Alba Date: 23 Jul 06 - 07:41 AM Who's Roger? There was Member here called Roger once. (Mudcat anme: Shambles) Amazing Songwriter and posted fun and interesting stuff but he was abducted by aliens and well...that was that. Once the aliens put the little microchip thingy under his skin.. *twilight zone music* I'll tell you something for nothing Giok and kendall. It made me believe that we are NOT alone in the Universe and that is when started buying and reading that great media source called: The National Enquirer. Happy Sun Day! (even if it is still raining here..*smile*) Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: kendall Date: 23 Jul 06 - 07:21 AM Blah blah blah. Poor Roger,everyone picks on him. I wonder why... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: John MacKenzie Date: 23 Jul 06 - 06:04 AM How about a list of the reasons for deletions with a number for each one like, 1 Blasphemy 2 Bad language 3 Personal attack 4 Flame attack 5 Total rubbish etc etc? Then the clones can just say 'Deleted for 1' or 'Deleted for 5' Or perhaps we could go to a members only site where policing the threads would be easier! Then you could post what you want under your own name. Of course we could always ask Max to publish a list of the clones names and their home adresses, so that Roger can send them Christmas cards! Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jul 06 - 07:23 PM The stuff we delete is garbage, Roger. It's duplicate stuff, personal attacks, Spam, and racism. If I delete a personal attack and leave a message saying: this message was deleted because in it, Susie called Janet a shithead, what good does it do? I haven't removed the garbage - I've just called attention to it. This is weak. If you really have to remove it - when you record it, all you have called attention to is that fact. A brief explanation of why - does not have to go into any detail or risk offending anyone. If a post does not appear - the poster will then know - if they do not see any indication of censorship - that the mistake is theirs and paranoid posts like Shag's - assuming the worst - will be a thing of the past. When prisoners send or receive letters - the blanked-out words at least indicate that censorship has taken place. If prisoners can know the true nature and level of the censorship they are subject to - perhaps our forum can also be permitted and trusted to know this? But despite this being repeatedly said to be the main justification for the introduction of The Mudcat Editing Team - it is quite plain from this thread alone, that it is not abusive personal attacks and offensive foul language that are deleted by them. For these personal attack posts remain. This is no surprise as the example of posting only such things to certain easy targets, is one set and encouraged by the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team, other volunteer fellow posters and their regular supporters. The fact that I am seriously accused by these posters of abuse - and this accusation is used to high-mindedly justify the further step-up in personally motivated and selective censorship would be laughed at anywhere any normal logic applied. As for trust - why is our forum not now even to be trusted to know the number and identity of those anonymous fellow posters who can impose judgement on them and in order to protect them, can delete posts and seemingly close threads quicker than posters can now start them? If all the imposed censorship actions were indicated and briefly explained - our forum would know the true nature and level of censorship undertaken in their name and in order to protect them. They could then judge if all the secrecy and division involved in this was proportionate. Why cannot our forum be trusted with this information? This is still a forum to encourage threads containing discussion. It would now appear to be one obsessed with division and of finding ways to discourage discussion, imposing judgement on fellow posters and of finding the slightest of excuses to close threads. It is not too late to return to all poster being treated equally, for all threads to remain open and for all posts to remain as posted and for us to stop judging each other's worth and get on with discussion and being allowed to agree to disagree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Peace Date: 22 Jul 06 - 07:16 PM OK. It's in the DT. There's the sheet music to go with it. I have no idea how to do the links. Shambles, I apologize for interrupting the flow of things. Keep well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Peace Date: 22 Jul 06 - 07:09 PM Anyone heard of this song before? "Darby and Joan"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: kendall Date: 22 Jul 06 - 06:11 PM Joe, it's useless to play the violin in front of an ox. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Peace Date: 22 Jul 06 - 05:02 PM I have an extra set of uppers. (My cousin worked in a funeral parlor.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Jul 06 - 04:58 PM
I suppose if you don't trust us, then there'd be a need for explanations of deletions - but if you don't trust us, then you wouldn't believe the explanations, so what's the difference? So, I guess if you don't trust us, that's too bad. I'm saddened that seems to be the case. I don't think the volunteers and I have done anything to deserve that distrust. There's just no logical reason for us to do all the stuff you accuse us of doing - why would we want to bother to get involved in all that pettiness? But back to the basic issue, Roger - in your time at Mudcat, you've posted over eleven thousand messages. Several thousand of those messages were complaints against Mudcat editing, and you've expressed the same few basic ideas over and over again - oftentimes repeating yourself word-for-word. Enough is enough. If you want to complain about Mudcat, go ahead, but restrict yourself to one thread at a time. If you want to post more, try finding other subjects to talk about. This obsession of yours with Mudcat editing just isn't healthy. It's getting you all upset, and shortening your life and making your teeth fall out and ruining your eating habits. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: John MacKenzie Date: 22 Jul 06 - 04:10 PM Because whatever reason is given for the deletion, you or someone as cantankerous as you are, will gainsay Mudcat's right or reason for doing it. In other words Roger with people who are professional members of the awkward squad like you are, Joe et al can't win! Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jul 06 - 04:04 PM That's the problem, Shambles. It's not what you post - it's how often you post the same thing. Perfectly logical. So our usual suspects can just carry on following your example and post only abusive personal attacks and inflict the kind of foul and obscence language on our forum that we have evidence of in this thread and these will be quite safe from deletion. But what our forum must be protected from at all cost by stepping up unrecorded imposed selective and anonymous censorship actions - are any posts from me - not containing anything offensive but simply material that may also appear in other threads.... Is this punishment really proportionate to the so-called 'crime' and can it be considered to be free from personal bias? Is it really too much to expect a move back towards equal treatment for all posters on our forum - rather than finding excuses for more inequality and more petty restrictions. Are not even the youngest of posters here old enough to decide for themselves what they will read, respond to or ignore? And if imposed censorship MUST be stepped-up at this point - are posters not old enough to be informed where and why such imposition has taken place in order to protect them? Then all posters will be aware of the true nature and level of censorship that you have judged for them is required to be imposed, and can then express an informed opinion whether they consider this stepped-up censorship to be as desirable as you have claimed in this thread that Mudcatters do. Why can there not be an indication and explanation given for where all imposed censorship actions have taken place? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Jul 06 - 03:12 PM
Shambles, there's really nothing wrong with anything you've posted. That's not the issue. Many of your ideas are good. In principle, I agree with your concern about our editing policy, and I agree that editing should be done with extreme moderation. I do my best to heed that principle, much to the chagrin of many who would like to see far stricter moderation. Hiowever, there is a problem with the sheer volume of what you post and with the fact that you post multiple copies of the same thing in multiple threads - and sometimes you post the same thing multiple times in the same thread. Certainly, it's fine to post a link to another thead - but you've posted some links twenty times, and you've copy-pasted some quotes more than twenty times. That's the problem, Shambles. It's not what you post - it's how often you post the same thing. That's why you're restricted to one active complaint thread at a time, because you have had a pattern of multiple posting that has spanned a number of years. If you want to post complaints to another thread, you have to wait 24 hours, or keep posting to the same thread. If you fail to comply with this restriction, your messages will be moved or deleted. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: jeffp Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:49 PM It's called an audit trail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:34 PM Hi, Slag - I can't find any evidence that any of your posts have been deleted or edited. We usually delete only personal attacks, racism, and spam. -Joe Offer- If the post had been deleted - would there have been any evidence? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:28 PM http://www.mudcat.org/detail.cfm?messages__Message_ID=1786151 Posts and misunderstandings like this one - can easily be avoided if all censorship actions are indicated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:22 PM Hi Joe! Finally made it to this thread. I guess that post of mine wandered off into cyber-land somewhere. No "Biggy". Interesting change of view here. I remember your first reaction was that it was indeed a big deal and to assume your post had been deleted and to make accusations of your free speech was being curtailed. The point being that - if whenever censorship action had been taken - there was some indication and explanation given for it - had you not been able to find your post - you would have known the cock-up was yours and not gone off on one............... No matter what apolgetic noises you make now - I suspect that after that post - your number is marked and that you will be the next one on the list for special treatment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: kendall Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:09 PM Mudcarp !! Now that's a good one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Slag Date: 22 Jul 06 - 12:20 PM Hi Joe! Finally made it to this thread. I guess that post of mine wandered off into cyber-land somewhere. No "Biggy". Hey, you know it's really so cool that some folks set up an open forum where people can share ideas and interests FOR FREE! So much is available here. There are a lot of caring folk to help and guide and provide info and the like. Both the music-specific and the BS pages are very broad: some so broad that I don't even want to peak into them but that's MY taste. So---Shambles! What's your beef?? Set up your own site with no rules, no restrictions, a site where everyone can carp and spam and do cyber-graffiti all day long FOR FREE while you foot the bill. Hey You can call it MUDCARP !!! (that's a freebie, no copyright, OK?). Joe and Co. Thanks! I appreciate the site. Slag |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: John MacKenzie Date: 22 Jul 06 - 07:23 AM See here Roger G. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jul 06 - 07:10 AM Is there a cure for compulsive obsessive behavior? How long have you had it Kendall? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: jacqui.c Date: 22 Jul 06 - 06:55 AM Only if the person who has it is prepared to accept that they have a problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: kendall Date: 22 Jul 06 - 06:52 AM Is there a cure for compulsive obsessive behavior? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jul 06 - 06:38 AM This restriction applies only to you, and only to the subject of Mudcat editing policy. Joe Offer Can we be clear here? Is the restriction you refer to - when my posts are deleted and threads closed - that there will be no idication that censorship has taken place or explanation given? Are you saying that it is now the case that when any other poster has their posts deleted or threads closed - there always will be an indication that censorship has taken place and an explanation given? Or are you still maintaining that - whenever ANY form of imposed censorship takes place against ANY poster - there will never be ANY indication that this action has taken place and that no explanation will be given? If so - you will accept that a poster trying to post a link that is deleted without ANY indication being given that censorship has taken place - may quite reasonably be expected to make 7 or even more attempts to make their post stick? And should they take issue with this - will their concerns then be dismissed as being paranoid? As this is not the FBI - perhaps this step-up in censorship can be thought through at this point and reversed so that if ANY censorship action is imposed - indication that this has taken place and some form of explanation is ALWAYS given? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Alba Date: 22 Jul 06 - 06:32 AM " We seem to be getting somewhere." LOL! Only problem is that one of the "we" is intent on going backwards today! Which means the "we" will be going nowhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: John MacKenzie Date: 22 Jul 06 - 06:19 AM (10) Do not disrespect moderators. Be respectful in both the forums and any private communications with moderators. Moderators are volunteers that donate many, many hours of their own time to help in the forums. Violations of this rule will not be tolerated Rule 10 from the list of rules for the site that Ragdall linked to. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jul 06 - 05:46 AM I deleted the "Boo" for good measure,since it didn't have anything to do with the thread. Joe Offer And the (joke) post about nipples will also be deleted in this thread? And all such posts from every thread? I really feel that posters should be aware of the real nature and level of personally motivated and selective censorship that we have reached on our forum. And how this personal difference is being made worse by the use of editing powers in order to win this dispute and impose this view by force. Despite this attempt and possibly because of it, I will continue to do what I can to bring the reality of current censorship on our forum is to poster's attention and to suggest fairer, more stylish less draconian alternatives, than those that would not be out of place in the FBI - but are totally unproportionate on a friendly disccussion forum. As can be seen - Some help towards this would be much appreciated by me. Placing (only) a link in a thread - only indicates to a poster that a thread on that subject exists. Posters who only use the music section may be unware that the opportunity for a discussion and a debate on that subject is available. The choice to click on it, or ignore is their's. Even though should they do so - many may be rather put off by the abusive personal attacks and foul language that are permitted (or encouraged) to litter these discussions. It matters little what state Max is prepared to permit our forum to fall into to enable these increased abuses of power. That is a matter for him. But it is important that no pretence is publicly maintained of it (and this step-up) being undertaken in any noble cause. The step-up in censorship announced here by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team is NOT coming from Max. It is justified as being what Mudcatters want. Is it? It is plainly what the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team wants. Presumably then, if Mudcatters do not want it - They will not have to have it imposed upon them. Perhaps encouraging censorship measures introduced to settle personal power struggles - is not the correct way to approach increased restrictions? The essense of this is a personal difference of views between two individuals who were once posting as equals (and friends). Then one day about 5 years ago, one of these posters received a PM from the other, threatening them with all mannner of imposed restrictions - if the other did not do what the other one demanded. Threats as the first and only element, are not really likely to achieve much with some people and these threats and restrictions have now steadily increased to the level of the special treatment that has now been spelt out here in this editing comment. By this (once) fellow poster to another. From the level of special censorship treatment, personal abuse and witch hunts that I have been encouraged to be subject to - some newer posters may assume that my so-called 'abuses' must have been the very worst of all posters....Are they? Is trying to express and evidence your view - when others are determined to use everything in the book, to prevent this - in fact abuses at all? If you want to post something against one another, why don't you PM me first and see if we can't resolve the issue without further disrupting our Mudcat. Bert - My postings will show that I do try NOT to post anything personal about Joe Offer or anyone else, not to respond in kind to those addressed to me and to try to keep focused on the issue. I am prepared to do as you request - but after the last editing comment - can you really see the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team using you or anyone as a mediator in this spat? But how about you as Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - or anyone else? Or perhaps no fellow poster tying to combine two impossible roles. Perhaps the role of the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team should be more one of a mediator than one of chief poster, prosecutor, judge and hangman. Perhaps Bert if Joe Offer and myself (and all posters) were once again posting our views on an equal basis, and one was not able to simply delete any posting and close every thread started by them, with no indication or explanation, there may be some hope of working out our differences. For personal differences of views between 'moderators' and posters should not be allowed to involve the forum and be confused with censorship issues. If they must exsist, perhaps so-called 'moderators' should just moderate and not be able to express any views? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: ragdall Date: 21 Jul 06 - 09:08 PM http://inashambles.proboards47.com/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Bert Date: 21 Jul 06 - 07:49 PM Well Joe and Shambles. We seem to be getting somewhere. Shambles, yes there are times when technical problems plague our use of Mudcat, let's give the benefit of the doubt here and say that this is the case. One problem that I often have, is that I type an a message and find that the internet has forgotten all about me before I hit submit and the message doesn't get posted. And Joe, thanks for taking the time and trouble to explain what is happening. I think that it goes a long way to resolving this issue. The problem that I have is that both of you are good friends of mine and I hate to take sides in this matter. From knowing both of you for some years now, I know that if either of you were to arrive at the other's door you would be welcomed with open arms. So please, both of you, bear this in mind before you carry on this disagreement on line. If you want to post something against one another, why don't you PM me first and see if we can't resolve the issue without further disrupting our Mudcat. Bert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: The Shambles Date: 21 Jul 06 - 03:22 PM Today I tried to place a link to this thread in the following one - Mudcat update from Max There appears to be a technical fault. I see the link in the thread but when I return - the link has vanished! A post containing only 'BOO! - is OK and remains in that thread but there would still appear to be a technical problem with posting the link there. Or is the posting of links to other threads now forbidden on our forum and are they also to be amonymously deleted with no indication or explanation? If so why?
Your campaign against Mudcat editing is restricted to one active thread at a time. This restriction has become necessary because of your long history of posting the same thing over and over again, oftentimes in threads that have nothing to do with your topic of choice. Say what you want, but restrict your comments on Mudcat editing to one thread. Once that thread is no longer active, you may post comments on another thread that deals with Mudcat editing, or you may start another thread. This restriction applies only to you, and only to the subject of Mudcat editing policy. It is necessary because of your long history of abuse, and because of your repeated failure to comply with requests that you limit your practice of copy-pasting the same information in multiple threads. Reasonable duplication and "thread drift" is certainly acceptable, but not for you - you have repeatedly gone far beyond what anyone would consider to be reasonable, and your posts have therefore been placed on restriction. It is important for people to understand that these restrictions apply only to you, and that they are a result of your long history of abuse. If you make good use of your one-thread allowance and don't attempt to play games with the restrictions placed upon you, I'm sure you can say everything you need to say on the issue. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Bill D Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:43 PM remember "socks with sandals"?...they have a wide variety of interests! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads From: Joe Offer Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:35 PM Gee, maybe it would be better if we talked about nipples or something. So, do you women have any thoughts about men's nipples? Navels? -Joe Offer- |
