BS: Deleted posts & closed threads

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 12:26 PM

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 10:44 AM

It is a well known psychological fact that children will seek attention, if not receiving it, even if it is negative attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 09:08 AM

It must be quite clear to most posters by now what the price is of being seen to hold and try to openly express any views different to those held by the current holder of that post.

Shambles, I will agree that it is difficult making any comments critical of Mudcat, Max or the volunteers. That said, you do your best to provoke harsh reponses from others and to "suffer" editorial action. What is quite clear to me is that you willfully provoke in order to become a "victim".

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 08:18 AM

Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell.
Max Spiegel 11th May 06.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 07:55 AM

Why isn't Clinton Hammond's personal attack being deleted? Because of the clones need to have their villians attcked and trampled by the sheep....baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Just one more example of the gathering of power Michel Foucalt warned us about in a complex society.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Alba
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 07:27 AM

Deleting a post for whatever reason is an editing act and does not require a criminal investigation.
Just as the Moderator of this Forum, in my opinion, should not have explain any of the deletion decisions that are taken.
This place ain't a democracy.
Want democracy, Go and start an un-moderated Forum somewhere out there. It will last a week before it crashes and burns.

Having no class is carrying out a hate campaign against this Site's Administration Team in public instead of using the available private channels to express your feelings.
That way the Moderator and or Owner can deal with an individual's gripe without Members being subjected to having to see said gripe on the Forum again and again and again.

If I recall correctly the owner of the Mudcat expressed his feelings on a Thread directly to the person that started this tedious thread.
In his remarks, the owner was very clear about what he thought this person should do.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 05:19 AM

I'm sorry, Bert, but that's not going to happen. If we have to report and defend and debate deletions, it would only exacerbate the trouble caused by problem posts.... -Joe Offer-

Why would it exacerbate anything by always placing an editing comment to indicate where some form of censorship had taken place and briefly stating the reasons? The censor could also always identfy themselves.

It would be the open, honest and classy way to do it - if it had to be done at all. For then all posters would have all the evidence to be able to judge for themselves if the censorship action imposed in their name and in order to protect them was actually serving this purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 05:00 AM

The thing is Roger your campaign is motivated by truculence over your post/s being edited or deleted, it's not pro bono. You come over as a petulant child who can't get his own way, not as a Robin Hood, or a Nelson Mandela.
I applaud all unselfish ideals for the betterment of our lot, but that's not the way it comes over when you whinge about being suppressed.
Then we have your continuous diatribe against Joe Offer, he is not the only clone, he is not the one who does all the deletions. You seem to be trying to patray him as the Maggie Thatcher of Mudcat, responsible for all that happens under his watch.
Start sounding more altruistic and less curmudgeonly, you might find you get more sympathy and support.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 04:26 AM

It's mind over matter Guest, we don't mind and you don't matter!
G.

I hope when you die, your quick witted remarks will give you some sense of peace when you breathe your last breath.

or will your death be as boring as your wit? Wait for it....c'mon goik i know you still got one more? C'mon, make us happy? Everyone loves you, you character, you lovable character that makes a room important when you walk in.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 03:29 AM

When Joe particpates as a poster, I know him to the same extent I know shambles, his opinions and know what he means.

It's nonsensical to include the moderation duty which Joe performs (and Max says can be done anonymously) and shambles can't in your "character analysis".

Well I also very seldom know what Jon means. I have little ideas what the above means.

But it is not a popularity contest between the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team and any ordinary poster. It must be quite clear to most posters by now what the price is of being seen to hold and try to openly express any views different to those held by the current holder of that post.

For people to post and express satisfaction at the current level of censorship when they are not aware of what it is and what it is increasing turning into is bad enough. It makes even less sense for these posters to publicly rubbish any poster who does experience the full extent of this personally motivated censorship as a matter of routine and who is trying to bring this to their attention.

In order for any poster to make a judgement - the first step is to establish what the extent of censorship is. This can't be done if the censorship action is not recorded and posts just vanish.

Are the arguments made in this thread - for not recording ALL censorship action - really very convincing?   

The best way to permanantly curtail any so-called anti-censorship campaign - is to bring and end to censorship. Or if you can't do that, at least to always to be seen to be keeping any that may be necessary, out in the open.

The request to give a name and to always be prepared to stand by one's views and actions - is one that is often made by one poster to another (usually a nameless guest). Perhaps it is not too unreasonable for our forum to expect the same open and accountable approach from those who feel qualified to impose their judgement upon and censor the invited posts of others?

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 02:25 AM

Shambles comes out and says what he thinks. [...] BUT, we all know him and know his opinions and know what he means.

I don't know what he means half the time.

Now Joe, well this is difficult 'cos we DON'T know what Joe is doing.

When Joe particpates as a poster, I know him to the same extent I know shambles, his opinions and know what he means.

It's nonsensical to include the moderation duty which Joe performs (and Max says can be done anonymously) and shambles can't in your "character analysis".

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 01:37 AM

The difference between Shambles and Joe...

Shambles comes out and says what he thinks. OK. Maybe a bit more than some of us would like. BUT, we all know him and know his opinions and know what he means.

Now Joe, well this is difficult 'cos we DON'T know what Joe is doing. SOMETIMES he tell us what he thinks. Other times he sneaks in under cover of his editing priviliges and deletes messages or moves them without telling us. Then when Shambles complains that one of his messages has been deleted, then all the usual suspects jump in with a knee jerk reaction to trash Shambles.

Personally, I prefer someone who is open and above board, even though he may go on a bit at times, to someone who is abusing their editing priviliges by secretly deleting somone else's messages.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:43 PM

Sorry for not having read many of your postings before Shambles so have never got to know you. Can I say it is not really a pleasure to have rebellious children on the Mudcat..although it does make life a little more interesting. However are there no childrens forums where you can wind people of your own age up?

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:11 PM

There is a general feeling among Mudcatters that enough is enough, that there is no need for abusive posts....

Piffle.

There seem to be plenty of abusive posts in this thread that have not been deleted from it, in order to protect this new 'general feeling among Mudcatters'.

But abusive posts have always been thought to be OK by many Mudcatters, depending on who it is posting the abuse and who it is that is being abused.

And this recent concern, expressed by the Chief of the Mudcat Editing team for the general feeling of Mudcatters has never prevented him from setting the example of making abusive personal attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:19 PM

"It's mind over matter"

Ya... -I- don't mind, cause NONE of this matters

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: number 6
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:19 PM

Ah .... the atmosphere of freedom.

One has to admit ..... ya just love all this !!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:13 PM

It's mind over matter Guest, we don't mind and you don't matter!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:49 PM

never mind

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:40 PM

my old Social Studies teacher once replied to a LONG discussion about 'freedom of expression' by writing on the board:

"This class is run democratically"
    signed, King Harmon I

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:33 PM

3 letters - about 33% difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:32 PM

There's a BIG difference between red-headed and red-necked....

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:23 PM

"Oh Clinton if only you were a red headed woman!
G[iok]"


BELLAMY BROTHERS

Redneck Girl

Redneck girl likes to cruise in daddy's pickup truck,
And a redneck girl plays hard when she's down on her luck,
Living for Friday afternoon,
She's gonna show one ol' boy that weekend moon.

And I pray that someday I will find me a redneck girl
A redneck girl likes to stay out all night long
She makes sweet rock and roll while she listens to the country songs
She's waiting for that moment of surrender
her hands are callused but her heart is tender

And i pray that someday I will find me a redneck girl
Gimme a, gimme a, gimme a redneck girl
Gimme a, gimme a, gimme a redneck girl

Gimme a gimme a gimme a redneck girl
Gimme a gimme a gimme a redneck girl

Redneck girl got her name on the back of her belt
She's got a kiss on her lips for her man and no one else
The Coyote is howling out on the prairie
First comes love, then comes marriage!

And I pray that someday i will find me a redneck girl
Gimme a, gimme a, gimme a redneck girl

Gimme a, gimme a, gimme a redneck girl
You've got to gimme a, gimme a, gimme a redneck girl,
Gimme a gimme a gimme a redneck girl.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:06 PM

"it just sapped the fun out of it"

Then bog off..... Why stay where there's no fun?

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:00 PM

Whose fun?

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:56 PM

No it just sapped the fun out of it thats all.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:55 PM

According to what I read on bathroom walls in truckstops and around rest area Glory Holes, you don't like women, Giok

:-P
heh

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:53 PM

It didn't keep you out did it?
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:47 PM

i stopped being a member 2 years ago because of censorship. Many of you knew me too. I pop back sometimes as a guest, but i see censorship has got worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:45 PM

Giok - he's only off by two letters.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:42 PM

Oh Clinton if only you were a red headed woman!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:29 PM

Hurts don't it Giok....

Just lay back, relax and breath regularily.... the pain will pass quickly, and the pleasure will come

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:28 PM

I don't agree with CH..Asshole is too nice a desription!

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:22 PM

Don't you just hate it when you agree with CH?
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:20 PM

Well, it certainly doens't refer to you Shambles....

Maybe it's because you're an asshole.....

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:17 PM

(Shambles has a compulsive need to ask who "we" is whenever I use the word)
Joe Offer

The important and sad thing to remember is that when you use the word 'we' - it no longer refers to us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Grab
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 10:44 AM

How has this general feeling been expressed?

The "general feeling" of us really doesn't matter.

The "general feeling" of Max, who owns the site, and of Joe, Jeff and all the volunteers who actually make it run, is what counts. And you'll find that "general feeling" expressed in various posts from Max, Joe, Jeff and others.

If it is the general feeling - is there any consensus that these methods to deal with it are proportionate?

I quote from Joe above: "The volunteers are supposed to make deletions only for the most obvious problems, and they are to report all deletions to Jeff or me. Jeff and I consult with each other." Max has explicitly delegated this authority to Jeff and Joe, and he's made his opinions clear about how Jeff and Joe are dealing with your posts.

How is this hijacking to be defined?

"on other subjects to use in your campaign against Mudcat editorial actions", "copy-pasting the same information over and over again"...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 10:34 AM

Well Roger I'll put it this way, I don't always agree with Joe Offer, but this time he's hit the nail on the head.
Does that naswer your question?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 10:16 AM

That's right, Shambles. There is a general feeling among Mudcatters that enough is enough, that there is no need for abusive posts like those of Martin Gibson and Gargoyle, or for your abuses - hijacking threads on other subjects to use in your campaign against Mudcat editorial actions, and copy-pasting the same information over and over again.
Joe Offer

How has this general feeling been expressed?

If it is the general feeling - is there any consensus that these methods to deal with it are proportionate?

How is this hijacking to be defined?

Are there not attempts to hijack this thread?

Will these attempts be dealt with in the same hysterical manner?

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 08:15 AM

Black and white, but not read all over!
G

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Bugsy
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 07:31 AM

I really don't care where, or what, shambles posts.

If someone posts to a thread that detracts or diverts from the subject of that thread, I tend to ignore the post and read on.

Just because it's writ, don't mean it's got to be read....

Cheers


Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 07:13 AM

Now farts, well they are spreading all the time, and they don't seem to be contagious, although in all male company they can become competitive. Unlike yawns however, when the person beside you farts, don't just sit there with your mouth open!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:09 AM

Hey, Peace:

Now I understand the phrase, "Do you get my drift?"


EEEE Hawwwwww!

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:01 AM

Democracy on forums

If posters knew that any post of theirs judged to be offensive enough to require deletion would have an editing comment to that effect - - they would always know that if they could not find their post - that the mistake would have been theirs.

Without this common courtesy being shown to invited contributions - posters will never sure - without posting again in some form to ask..........

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:12 AM

I have this theory about yawns, I believe there is only one yawn in the world and it is passed from person to person. When it's your turn to have it the person next to you will pass it on.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:05 AM

I found it on a site that has all kindsa facts. Pieces of trivia that are of absolutely no use to anyone unless they have run out of their three lifelines and they are gonna go for the million. Is it true? I really don't know. But I figured it would give folks a break from the regular stuff. I realize it's thread drift, BUT, it's thread drift in a good cause on a thread that needs some drift.

Here's another one:

"Most people who read the word 'yawning' will yawn!"

I did, but then I have had six hours of sleep in the past two nights and it's just gone 2:00 AM here and I've been up for 20 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:58 AM

Bring home the soldiers and send in the donkeys I say.          Joking aside Brucie, is that true?

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:30 AM

Are you all aware that the USA has never lost a war in which donkeys were used?

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:24 AM

I'm sorry, Bert, but that's not going to happen. If we have to report and defend and debate deletions, it would only exacerbate the trouble caused by problem posts. The volunteers are supposed to make deletions only for the most obvious problems, and they are to report all deletions to Jeff or me. Jeff and I consult with each other.
-Joe Offer-

The whole point of starting this thread is to demonstrate to our forum (or at least those who are interested) what the true level of censorship is. It is pretty obvious that the whole point of those who would defend it – is to keep its true nature a secret.

Subject: RE: BS: Religion=good folk doing bad things?
From: Slag - PM
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:09 AM

Well it looks as those my comments never made it passed your censors! Gee, I thot you folks, if anybody, believed in free speech. Maybe speech is only free if everyone agrees with you.

Hi, Slag - I can't find any evidence that any of your posts have been deleted or edited. We usually delete only personal attacks, racism, and spam.
-Joe Offer-

Editing comments like the one inserted into the above post, state that only personal attacks, racism and spam are subject to censorship. So when one's censored post not any of these but is still subject to imposed censorship action - perhaps an editing comment of explanation (whenever it takes place) is the best option?

This will prevent more posts asking where the posts have gone and prevent threads being started asking for explanations. If such imposed actions are now thought to be necessary – perhaps it is only being polite and showing respect, for an explanation to be given.

When unpleasant things need to be done - there is classy way to do it. And there is the now preferred way of imposing it on our forum.


Are all thread originators (except me) now entitled to have their threads closed – if they request this?

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: JennyO
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:39 AM

Bee-dubya, I think you're onto something there! Why, in no time at all we can build that other rubbish thread up to 5000 posts -

(then we can delete the whole thing mwuhahahaha ha ha ha)

Ya might beat that pesky khandu yet. You has my vote!

Subject: RE: BS: Deleted posts & closed threads
From: Bert
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:08 AM

Why keep trash?

Hey we keep YOU ;-)