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Real Ale v Lager
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Edward Bridge Date: 01 Aug 06 - 11:03 AM There is only a small amount of maize added for colouring - no artificial colours! Also a smidgeon of natural wheat, which encourages bottom fermenting yeast. It is a pure natural beer. The only thing added after brewing is CO2 which gives it a fizz which is not to everyone's taste, but most people enjoy this. The CO2 also acts as a preservative. There is nothing more refreshing on a hot summer day! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: manitas_at_work Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:13 AM Maize?!! What's wrong with just water, barley, hops and yeast? |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Edward Bridge Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:44 AM Foster's is a light golden colour with medium malt character. It has a subtle hop bitterness achieved from hopping the beer as late as possible to capture all the flavour of the unique "Pride of Ringwood" hops. With a delicate fruity hop aroma and balanced taste. Foster's rolls off the tongue leaving a clean crisp finish. It is the biggest selling beer in London. It is brewed by Scottish & Newcatle Brewery. The ingredients are: Water, Malted Barley, Maize, Wheat, Hops & Yeast Thats it! No chemicals as ignorant informed people will try to tell you. It is a truly great beer! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Bob Darthen Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:32 AM Fosters is a lovely lager. What do you mean by "super chilled" surely it would be ice if that were the case. How do you know it tastes like shite? It's obvious to me who the moron is. BTW do you have a beard? |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Jon Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:32 AM I don't think it is quite that bad. I'll drink Fosters, even if not just desparate for a drink. It's far from my first choice of drink though. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:29 AM *LOL* |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Dave Hanson Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:23 AM FOSTERS?............. FOSTERS for fucks sake, are you some sort of moron ? it's super chilled shite, I know desparate alcoholics who won't drink it. eric |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Paul Burke Date: 01 Aug 06 - 06:11 AM Dis gustibus est dis Bud sputum. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: ossonflags Date: 01 Aug 06 - 05:53 AM "Camerons Strongarm" the true path !!!! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Folkiedave Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:46 PM Gimmee a can of Bud!! Why do they serve Bud so cold? To distinguish it from gnats' piss. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Bobby The Brewer Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:07 PM See BBC article It reveals lots of chemicals in our beer - but not in the purest of pure Carlsberg! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:57 PM There must be some good Aussie beer. Any nominations? So I know what to ask for next time I'm in a Aussie eatery |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Judge Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:30 PM Interesting article Dave. However in the UK there are strict EU rgulations governing beer containers. Wood is NOT ALLOWED unless it has a plastic lining! This defeats the object of having wood in the first place. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Paul from Hull Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:37 PM I shall do that then, me owd 'oss! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Dave the Gnome Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:26 PM Nowt wrong with a pint of the old kangaroo piss if your just back from a week in the bush, Judge. As to As for coming in metal containers so does all draught beer there is a nice article here disproving that theory. Hic. DtG |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Judge Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:57 PM Nothing better than a cold pint of Fosters. You lot slag it off and say it comes from a "factory". You don't drink it so how do you know so much about it's flavour etc. As for coming in metal containers so does all draught beer. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: alanabit Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:52 PM You're a brave man 'Spaw, but I worries 'bout you sometimes... |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:45 PM Y'all are fucked up right and proper for sure. Gimmee a can of Bud!! Them boys put the date right on the can so ya' know ya' got a fresh one. 'Sides, them Anheuser-Busch folks dump about a ton of money into racing in general and NASCAR in particular and that's a shitload more important then taste anytime. >>>> 8 >>>> |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: artbrooks Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:42 PM Mudcatter Alaska Mike (Mike Campbell) has a great song with a refrain which begins Put that Budweiser back in the Clydesdale, which is a perfect place for it. {Can this thread go back on top now?} |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: The Walrus Date: 31 Jul 06 - 12:39 PM "...Bud going down tastes like real ale coming up... " That, Mr Fox, is an insult ... to regurgitated real ale. W |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Mr Fox Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:38 AM The worst liquid masquerading as beer HAS to be the UK version of Budweiser - a nasty British imitation of a nasty American imitation of a decent Czech beer. Bud going down tastes like real ale coming up. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: ossonflags Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:13 AM Well you could kill two birds with the one fiver in a months time when we are due to play at Durty Nelleys again. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Paul from Hull Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:45 AM I'll have to get round to having a pint of somthing one of these days. I'm long overdue |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Jon Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:44 AM I think there was a difference between the Dublin brew and the English brew. It always seemed creamier, although the joy of being in Ireland might have helped... I do like Guiness but I've given up with it, It's pushing towards £3 per pint here and I can get a really good bitter for maybe £2.20. If I do drink a stout these days, it is usualy in the Shed (the pub I mentioned earlier) and not one of the Irish types. Of all the Irish stouts, my favourite was Beamish but, at least as far as I understand it, they changed the recipe when they started calling it "Beamish Black". It's seemed to become more Guinness like in taste. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Paul from Hull Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:39 AM I'll have to get round to seeing Punch the Horse one of these days |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: ossonflags Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:27 AM You are dead right paul.Having drunk many a pint and sung many a song - see "Punch The horse" thraads - in the Durty Nellies in Hull I can personnaly vouch for its excellance.Chris the gaffer probably sells more pints of the "G" than any one else in 'ull I have also drunk the black stuff all over Ireland,including your mates pub.What I find really strange however, is one year I was drinking in "McDaids" Harry street Dublin, a pub not a thousand miles from St.James Gate brewery, and the pint was dearer than a pub in Ballyferriter County Kerry that I visited two days later !! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: jeffp Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:16 AM Real ale is actually pumped by a "beer engine," which looks on the outside like a simple tap, but is actually a hand pump. Cask conditioning does not develop enough pressure to push beer up from a cellar. Lagers and ales are created by different yeasts, ale yeast forms a cake on the top of the fermenting wort, while lager yeast forms its cake on the bottom. Ale is fermented at 65-72 degrees fahrenheit, while lager is slowly cooled to around 50 degrees after fermentation begins. It develops fewer esters at that temperature, keeping the flavor "cleaner," in some peoples' opinions. There is also a third variety - California Common or "Steam" beer. This is exemplified by Anchor Steam Beer. It is produced with a lager yeast fermented at warmer temperatures. My preference is for ales. They just feel better in my mouth. BTW, there is just as much "Everybody know that ..." bullshit in brewing as there is in folk music. Good thing is that both are great fun to discuss while drinking the one and listening to the other. Jeff |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:01 PM i gave up beer and lager drinking a few years ago when my weight was creeping too close to 18 stone.. growing up in the west country provided ample opportunity to enjoy real hand pulled draught barreled beers.. but about 15 years ago i went on my first trip to Czeckoslovakia with a mate who organised cultural exchange trips.. one of the perks was guided tours of czeck breweries and drinking in the bars that served the freshest purest barrels of local brews.. including the real genuine origional budvar in Ceske Budejovice .. after that first trip.. i'd spend the equivalent of 3 or 4 weeks a year travelling and drinking all around that beautifull mid european paradise.. you really can drink that stuff until you fall happily and gently unconcious.. and still wake up next without a hint of a hangover.. after that i couldnt enjoy heavier gravity trad english beers so much anymore.. luckily.. a few choice pubs around uk started to import barrels direct from czech suppliers.. anyway.. in late 90's it seemed big global US & UK corporate beer brands.. were negotiating to buy into czeck breweries.. amidst much fear of modernisation and sterilisation of real czeck lagers in name of corporate progess.. and general westernisation of communist / mid european culture.. i stopped visiting and have'nt been back since 6 years.. so cant say if the lagers have been ruined or not.. .. anyway.. i reverted back to my own trad regional folk culture and only drink fine quality natural pressed ciders these days.. or at worst.. big pubchain bland chemical fizzy ciderpops if i'm outsocialising in a place thats too prejudiced to ever consider stocking selling & the 'real thing' [and my weight is now a healthier 15 and three quarter stone; mostly gym toned muscle..!!!] |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Paul from Hull Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:21 PM Had a friend from Galway who lived in Dublin for a few years before coming across to England to live (& for the past few years he's been in Wales...) He used to say that the 'Durty Nellys' pub in Hull (Durty Nellys is an Irish-themed pub 'chain' in UK) served the best pint of Guiness hed had outside Ireland...& his local in Dublin was the pub nearest the brewery.... just couple of hundred yards down the road... the barrels were delivered by hand! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:11 PM I've always enjoyed a good draft Guinness. The stuff in the bottles is fine for cooking with, but not a great drink. While there are other stouts that I enjoy more, I think that a properly served Guinness is nice. Recently I was in Washington and stopped into the Dubliner, reportedly one of the finest Irish pubs in our country. Their pint was served very, very cold and was awful. On the other hand, there is a bar in my hometown that serves "the perfect pint". I think that there are beer snobs that will automatically disregard Guiness. Because it is successful, people automatically feel that it is inferior. As McGrath pointed out, the upkeep of the establishment will determine the taste. Again, if any of you find yourself in Northern NJ please look me up. I would love to sample some great brews at the beer mecca - Andys Corner Bar in Bogota, NJ. Finest kind. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Paul from Hull Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:53 PM Psst.... Mr McGrath, hush up about Guinness...Divis Sweeney is back, & if he hears you talking about Guinness, there'll likely be words said... |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:50 PM What makes the difference with Guinness is how far the taps and the pipes are kept clean - well, it makes the difference with all beer of course, but the thing with Guinness is, since no other skills are really needed in serving it (apart from knowing how to pour it, which is tricky enough), the normal skills of looking after beer can be lacking in people selling it. They can get away without them, most of the time. But if the taps aren't clean, or worst of all, if the cleaning stuff is allower to remain in the system, it can taste absolutely disgusting. As Dylan might have sung: One kind favour I ask of you, See that my taps are kept clean |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Folkiedave Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:42 PM I am sure that is right (all brewed in Dublin) and I am also sure that whilst everyone claims to be able to taste the difference with all due respect it is all no better than Eurofizz lager. It is served cold or very cold and arrives at the pub in a sealed metal dustbin. It takes absolutely no skill to look after it and whilst I am willing to concede to its fans that there may possibly be a difference in taste from pub to pub this is due to turnover of the product and nothing else. If they ever stopped advertising it, its sales would drop like a stone. It is vastly overpriced. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:37 PM I guess the word "lager" has been corrupted and misused in te UK. A real shame that the word cannot be used as intended. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Dave the Gnome Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM Guiness is no longer brewed in England under license. All UK Guiness is brewed in Dublin. Unfortunately the stuff exported over here is made from the guard dogs urine and bears no resamblance to the Irish stuff. But it is brewed there all the same. Up here in the frozen North we have an excelent brew from Dobbins (If I remember rightly) that was called Guiltless stout until some pratt from Dublin made them change the name. The brew is still very nice all the same. :D (tG) |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:24 PM A propos of your comment on Guinness, McGrath, that's another one brewed in England under licence. What you buy under the same name in Dublin has, IMHO, a much finer flavour. I agree with you about Murphy's tho'. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:16 PM There's good beer in all varieties, and terrible beer as well. The rule of thumb is to avoid stuff you've seen advertised too widely, and when it comes to draught beer, avoid anything that isn't hand-drawn. There may conceivably be some good lager produced in the UK, but I've never come across it. So I'll stick to (some) imported lagers and some English-style beers I've got reason to trust. And Guinness, but preferably Murphy's if they have it. And of course I'll be happy to sample any of these hand-crafted American beers if anybody's buying... |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: The Walrus Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:12 PM There are two ways to tell bloody aweful (Eurofizz - or should that be Urifizz) lagers in Britain, they either come from a tap in a 'chain' pub (or 'piss-and-plastic' bar) or they come from bottles with the obscene phrase "Brewed under License". There are the the occasional decent lagers to be found in Britain, but they are, regrettably, few and far between. W |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:08 PM Agreed Ron, but in the UK at least, Lager has become associated with a very specific grouping of binge drinkers (rightly or wrongly referred to as lager louts) who are currently occupying a disproportionate amount of police time and resources, in controlling their behaviour after closing time in pubs and clubs. As I have said, I don't subscribe to the idea that "Lager" per se is inferior, but what tends to be served under the name Lager in this country (with a few very notable exceptions) is. When you add to this the public perception of the group I have described above, it isn't too surprising that it gets a rather bad press. Some years ago (more years than I care to admit) I took a walking holiday in Austria, and at that time virtually every farm made its own Hofbrau (House brew). You could, when thirsty, knock at the door and buy a two litre bottle of lager for a few Schillings, which invariably was purest nectar. In the Bierkellers you could buy dark beers as good as the finest ales ever made in England. The problem seems to be that these beers were never exported to the UK, so the vast majority of people here are unaware of the difference. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:47 PM Well put Don, but to say "ale" or "lager" is not enough. You would not order a glass of wine or a plate of food, you need a further description. "Lager drinker" could mean anything. It sounds like it is a reference to a style of commercially made Pilsner, but when people use simple terms like "lager" they are ignoring some fine beers. If you don't like pizza, you don't necessarily hate all Italian food. Real ale has become a catchphrase that makes it simple to compartmentalize a certain style of beer. Luckily the world offers much more. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:40 PM Many lagers sold in the UK have names associated with very good beer, but are in fact made and bottled here under licence, and have none of the finer characteristics of the original brew. Examples of this would be Lowenbrau, and Tuborg, which are generally awful in UK pubs, but try them in their country of origin and they are delightful. The term "real ale" has become a way of distinguishing between cask conditioned live beer and keg beer which has been killed by fermentation, and is delivered by CO2 pressure which gives it a fizzy head and makes it a sort of beer flavoured lemonade. This also chills it and partially hides the inferior flavour. Real ale is delivered by the internal pressure produced by the conditioning, and comes up at cellar temperature, which allows the drinker to get the full complexity of flavour. I don't consider myself superior to anyone, but I do reserve the right to choose to spend my money on those products that my taste buds best appreciate. I think most people feel the same about their own choices, and good luck to them. It would be a dull world if everyone liked the same things. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Richard Bridge Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:27 PM There are some interesting beers in Alsace too: I once had one allegedly made from Sauerkraut. One of the main reasons in England that real ale drinkers (the beer in question is of course not an ale but a beer since it is hopped) think themselves superior to lager drinkers is the behaviour of lager drinkers. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Grab Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:50 PM Jon, that is sadly correct. Most pubs in the UK are either owned by a particular brewery or tied to that brewery (for preferential rates on that brewery's product). Art, it's not quite as bad as that, but very close. Budweiser and co have just taken English lager to its logic, taste-free, watery conclusion. And back to Jeff Beck's original question, drinkers of real ale think themselves superior to drinkers of cheap lager for the same reason that someone going to see Tom Paxton (or a similar good musician - obligatory music link there :-) for £20 a ticket might consider themselves superior to the yob who goes out and spends £20 on getting utterly ratted. Or the same way a person who carefully finds a good local painter selling an original landscape for £50 might consider themselves superior to someone who buys a framed print of "Stag at bay" or similar tripe. It's a question of having the values to spend your money on something worthwhile which will give you pleasure, instead of spending the same money on something indescribably cheap and nasty. And worst of all, not realising that you're wasting your money on crap. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Cobble Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:41 PM All ale is real or it would'nt be ale. It should be called traditional ale meaning brewed in the old fashioned way. Cobble. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: HuwG Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:21 PM I work behind a bar at present. GUEST,Jon is perfectly correct; tied houses are more restricted in the range of bitter beers they sell and at the same time more expensive than Free Houses. Judging by comments in this thread and others, and books by Bill Bryson et al. both British and American suppliers are up against a bleating, I'll drink it because everybody else does, follow-my-leader attitude. That is why a Starbucks will drive Fred's Coffee House out of business if it opens within a few city blocks. Likewise with pubs. Hordes of young people will flock in and just say, "Lager". If really pushed for details, they might just say, "Carling". They can quite happily ignore half a dozen pumps for light or dark bitters or milds. "Real Ale" also suffers a little from the image presented by CAMRA. CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale, was formed in the 1970's to protest about the growing homogenisation of the brewing industry in Britain. All well and good. Unfortunately, most of the real ale enthusiasts show ample evidence of their dedication to their palates, in the form of gigantic beer-bellies. A few others show the obsessive name- and number-collecting habit associated with train-spotters. My personal opinion; most draught lager sold in Britain has the authentic taste of hacksaw blades dissolved in battery acid. It is served extra cold to make it palatable. I wouldn't normally touch bottled lager, but there are some specialised brands available albeit at a price; Leffe, Hoegaarden (sp? I have difficulty with the gothic script on the bottle). |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: Leadfingers Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:18 PM Any one who has spent time AND money in Nothern Europe will know that there are a wealth of pale lager type beers from Belgium , Holland and Germasny which APPEAR to be lagers , but are in fact GOOD Beer ! Every now and then you MAY find a pub in UK selling the REAL thing (At Exhorbitant prices) which make your Fosters , Carling , etc taste like the crap they are . By the same token there are a lot of VERY drinkable Non lager type beers in our long lost colonies of the North Americas ! Adams in Boston is one I have enjoyed ! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: GUEST,Jon Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:41 PM One question, I have heard that most UK pubs only carry one brand. I hope that is not the case. I was told that pubs usually are owned by the brewers and they will sell their own brand. Most pubs in the UK are owned by breweries or by (I don't know what you call them) "property groups" (they don;t brew but own pubs) such as Punch Houses may be managed (employed by the brewery), tenancy or leases (not quite sure on the difference there). I think there is a law requiring a tied pub to have a "guest beer" but the choices can be limited and publicans usualy compelled to buy from within the group. Where I am, in North Norfok, Punch seem to be the biggest player. We also do have "Free Houses" who don't have these restrictions but they are less common. Free Houses btw often have an advantage over ones that are tied when it comes to pruchasing beer BTW. It may sound odd but lets say you had a tied "Tetley" pub and I had a Free House, you could well find I could buy "your" brew cheaper than you can. |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: artbrooks Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:35 PM Giok, come to Albuquerque and I'll take you down to the local brewpub for a pint of good lager! |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: John MacKenzie Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:27 PM When you compare Budvar and Budwieser, allegedly the same style of beer then you begin to realise what a catchall name lager is. I can drink the Chekoslovack style lager/pilsner beers till the cows come home, but Carling Harp and Tennant's, and other big brewers lagers made in the UK are crap, and give me a bad stomach. I like a proper hand made bitter like Fiddlers Elbow, or Wychwood, of the draught beers I like Youngs Special,and Courage Directors amomg others, with my favourite being Gale's HSB. However, to sum up, Lager is a good beer but not well done outside Eorope, and good British bitter beer with malt and hops in the right proportions takes a lot of beating. Giok |
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Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager From: alanabit Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:24 PM I am definitely a real ale drinker, but I want to add to what Ron said earlier. The original Budweiser comes from Ceske Budejovice in Bohemia. I can't recall whether it is in the Czech Republic or in Slovakia nowadays. At any rate, it is slightly to the east of Bayreuth and to the north of Upper Austria. The German name for the city is Budweis -hence the name. I recall saying to a German that I really liked orginal Budweiser, which you can occasionally get in cask form in Germany. I said it was one of the best Pils I had ever tasted. I was quickly corrected and told that it was a lager. Up to then, I had never thought of lager as being the tasty, mature drink, which Budweiser, for example, is. (All beer drinkers will quickly realise that I am not talking about the mass produced American product.) I would rather not drink anything at all than the sugary, plastic tasting "lagers" in the UK. If you drop into Köln though, I will happily take you down to Schwejk in the Altstadt for a glass of a prince among beers. Good beer is good beer. I won't drink rubbish German beers and I won't drink English rubbish either. Making beer is like anything else. You can do it badly or you can do it well. No country has a monopoly on good beer, any more than it has a monopoly on good music. |
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