Real Ale v Lager

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:03 PM

Jon, one of my better memories is sitting in a pub in Doolin, Ireland, drinking Smithwicks (while the rest of the Americans drank Guinness) and being amazed that the locals were drinking Bud.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:56 PM

Usualy art, yes, although names would include Fosters, Carling, etc. and not (that I've seen) a couple of the names you mentioned.

I honestely do not know about UK "real larger" production but typically in a UK pub, where you will normally find one or more real ales, you will only find the mass produced lagers.

The only pub I use on a fairly regular basis that sells another type of lager is one in Norwich (20 odd miles from me) I go to for a session. That one as well as a selection of real ales which include a couple it brews also has a few Belgian lagers available. I must admit I have yet to try one of these but I am told they are excellent.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:39 PM

So then, when UKers say "lager," what they mean is really the Bud/Coors/Labatts/Corona/Miller crap rather than a beer produced by the lagering method? OK...another one for transatlantic incomprehension.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:29 PM

By the way, don't get me wrong. I LOVE ale. I just can't say that I enjoy it more than any other style. It is like being forced to pick a favorite child.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:28 PM

My apologies if I am mis-reading. I am sorry it is not produced in the UK, but I am betting that you have enjoyed some lagers without realizing it.   Lager technically means "to lay down". It is a method of fermenting beers at cool temperatures. The byproduct of this process is that it actually helps stablize the beer. While it normally takes longer for a lager to be produced, the mass brewers discoverd that adding rice or corn would speed up the process, which also created some of the beers that have given the term such a bad name.

Oktoberfest beers are lagers. Oktoberfest and Marzen beers are sometimes ranked in with Vienna-style lagers. They are sweeter with a nice malty flavor. You can also have dark lagers, and I would highly recommend Germany's Ayinger if you can get your hands on one.

Pilsner, which includes Budweiser, is a process that was developed ito produce clear and golden brews. This is the style that has been corrupted to meet the taste buds of the most drinkers, people who respond to advertisement more than taste.

One question, I have heard that most UK pubs only carry one brand. I hope that is not the case.   I was told that pubs usually are owned by the brewers and they will sell their own brand.   Please tell me that is not true. I can't think of a duller way to spend an evening at a bar then to be forced to drink only one style of beer.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:04 PM

I think it is you miss-reading Ron. Most, if not all of us are aware there is "real lager". It is rarely found in UK pubs.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:02 PM

...you'll here just as much grumbling over here about naff beer as about naff lager, believe me.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:01 PM

Fair enough Ron, fair enough.

It seems the Lagers you are talking about are, like Real Ale, 'hand-crafted' by artisans, rather than mass produced on a production line by mechanical &/or flesh-&-blood cogs in a machine.

If you came over to the UK, you would see that we are saying pretty much the same thing about OUR real ale as you are saying about YOUR lager.

We arent any of us here slagging off lager JUST BECAUSE its lager, but because its CRAP lager.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:51 PM

Wow. Some of you really bought into it. If you truly had "real lager" you would be singing a different tune. What I am reading is that some of you have become convinced that there is something called "real ale" that makes it superior. Folks, it is just a matter of process and yeast, and ales AND lagers do not have to come out as pasturized swill. Lagers are more complex then you give it credit for. Unfortunately, some of you can only think in terms of LAGER=BUDWEISER(or insert the name of a multi-national brew here). It is NOT the case!

The swill they serve at rock concerts is not "real lager".

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: skipy
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:42 PM

simple answer - because they are!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:37 PM

A GENUINE quote from a policeman at a small village festival when I commented that he must hate pulling duty lie that - " No mate ! We LOVE it - Folk and Jazz people drink LOTS of real ale and stay happy - Rock festivals , they have two pints of lager and want a fight ! "

Nuff Said

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:17 PM

Well, to go back to Mr Beck's (unfortunate name that, considering the question) query, its not QUITE as you ask. Its more that rather than considering themselves superior because of drinking real ale, they drink real ale because THEY are superior to those who'll settle for pissy, factory-made Eurofizz lager.

It really DOES come down to the Lager-Lout culture, of those who are afraid to be dfferent to their mates, by not drinking the same as them.

Damn, I could do with a pint now...long overdue too, I'd say!

...& as for the name Beck (not Becks, I know!) the fact its 'Jeff Beck' is a major saving grace! (& even on a Folky forum, I reckon most people are sufficiently eclectic to know of The Great Man!)

There you are Jeff...your question answered, AND basking in the reflected glory of an Icon!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:11 PM

I see Creemore Springs every time I go into the beer store and don't think I've ever sampled it, Bill, but will do so, on your recommendation, the next time.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:03 PM

well, as I posted in a different thread..Creemore Springs lager makes the effort to find it worthwhile!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:04 AM

I understand what you said Bill, but if you read the tone of some of these posts as well as a general feeling that most(but not all) "real ale" drinkers have, the definition that they follow becomes apparent.

I could also give you a whole page of lagers, and I am sure that if we compare notes we could have a wonderful session!

The bottom line is, people tend to gravitate to a style that they enjoy. If you developed a taste for ale, you will probably find lagers not to your liking.

In reality, lagers are more difficult to brew. Temperature control becomes more of a factor, and off-tastes are easier to develop if not brewed correctly. As Eric pointed out, they are often served ultra-cold as a way of masking the taste, or lack of.

The glorious thing about beer is that is complex, more complex then wine. With wine you crush grapes and sit back and let the fermenting begin. Beer involves add the precise amount of grains and hops and then maintaining strict timing and temperature during the brewing process. The amount of flavors in beer is much higher than that of wine.

Okay, it is only 11am but now I am thirsty!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:03 AM

Real ale (cask-conditioned ale) has taste and needs careful cellaring to get the best out of it. The skills of the cellarer has an important effect on its final taste.

Lager generally means ice-cold, factory produced garbage, very much over-priced and sent to the pub in sealed metal dustbins. The cellarer has little effect on its taste since it is brewed to a lowest common denominater and offends no-one.

And yes there are some great lagers, generally brewed abroad and served in bottles. Mass produced lager is served cold to distinguish it from gnat's piss.

Much the same applies to Guinness but there are many myths about Guinness so it is hard to convince people it is no better than lager.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:46 AM

I didn't SAY "by definition", Ron...I said 'usually'....and I stand by that. I, too, have had lagers with nice qualities, but they are harder to find, and I can count them on one hand. I'd need a whole page to list the 'good' ales with distinctive flavors that make me want more.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:24 AM

Ale does NOT by definition have more distinctive flavor. There is a perception that it does, but I have had ales that taste like swill and lagers that are very complex.

As Eric has pointed out, lager has been closely associated with the multinational crap (can you say Budweiser?) and now everyone thinks that is how a lager is supposed to taste.   There are many craft brewers here in the U.S. that make very interesting lagers, and they are not meant to be served ice cold.

"Real Ale" has become another stereotyped term and those behind the folly are doing the same type of marketing that Budweiser does - create an image and "educate" the ignorant as to what they think they are drinking.

Ron

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:16 AM

Because Jeff, here in the UK unless you are lucky enough to get some traditionaly brewed lager all you get is that tasteless pap made in a factory [ not a brewery ] by the multinationals,sterilised to death and deliberately served ultra cold so you can't tell how shite it tastes, whereas ' real ale ' is [ generally ] produced in a brewery, using only natural ingrediants and delivered to your local pub still alive, ie the yeast still working.

eric

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:14 AM

Why do people ask silly rhetorical questions? The answer of course, is that most ale drinkers DON'T think themselves superior...they think ale is superior.

(for a reason....ales 'usually' has more distinctive flavors and variety than lager)

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:05 AM

you're lucky.. !!??

..Why do people who drink real ale & lager walk (or stagger) around thinking they are superior to people who drink cider !!!!?????


..and best not even mention supercillious pseudo-toff wine snobs!!!


all together now .. lets celebrate and sing out loud

the joys of Folk musics real natural pressed thirst quenching wassailing apple nectar..



"God gave PunkFolkRock 'n' Cider to you" [Argent/Kiss..arr: punkfolkrocker]

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:56 AM

Huuumm...definitions, please. Is this a case of transoceanic language usage? In the US, ale and lager refer to different types of brewing. That is, lager is a type of beer that is normally bottom-fermented and cold-cured and ale (sometimes claimed not to really be beer at all) is top-fermented. We usually don't use the term "real ale" at all, but generally understand it to be equivalent to what we call "craft-brewed," without such nasty additives as sugar, rice, preservatives and rat droppings.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:51 AM

Basement please

Subject: Real Ale v Lager
From: Jeff Beck
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:32 AM

Why do people who drink real ale walk (or stagger) around thinking they are superior to people who drink lager?

I'm posting this on a folk forum because there seems to be a huge % of real alers in that community.