BS: Back problems - please give weird help

Subject: BS: Back problems - give 'alternative' help
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:25 PM

I am in complete agony much of the time with my back. I have no idea why, but when I wake up in the morning I am in an L shape and it takes me up to an hour to straighten out and stand up. It's excruciating. Walking is reaaaaaaaaallly painful. I therefore have some time to pass. Usually I have a few kind-hearted and well-intentioned friends who come up with all kinds of 'alternative' remedies, which I generally don't think much of (because they're untested, nonsensical and quite mad). But now it occurs to me that this is just the kind of help I need to laugh away the pain. Any wierd, 'alternative' remedies, anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:29 PM

Aquatic exercise-- stretching sloooowwwwllllyyyy in warm water (84 degrees or warmer, hot tub best).

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:32 PM

A new mattress? A trip to an MD?

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:37 PM

See the doctor. A friend who stayed with us once woke in the night screaming in agony with a pain in his back. We were so concerned that we called an emergency ambulance. The ambulanceman looked at him, manipulated his back forcefully for a few moments, and cured the probem- a trapped nerve. Then went off to a real emergency, leaving us feeling idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: MMario
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:42 PM

see a doctor or a chiropractor, or at minimum a good, licensed masseuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Old Guy
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:47 PM

I injured my spine severely but it has healed very well. I had to sleep in a recliner because straightening out in a bed was painful. Now, after three years I have no problem sleeping in a bed and no pain.

I take 2 Glucosamine/Chondroitin Sulfate capsules and 2 calcium citrate pills every day.

The GC definitely helps with stiffness and soreness and I think the Calcium Citrate has helped with the healing.

A good mattress is a necessity. We have a Euro Atlas

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: bobad
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:48 PM

The rack?

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: MMario
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:51 PM

Ian:

Stop sleeping in the boot of your Austin!

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: gnu
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 01:28 PM

Forget the doc and the practor and... go to physio. That ain't weird, it's just the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: My guru always said
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM

Definitely a good Chiropracter if one can be recommended to you locally. The one I see now is happy to 'fix' my back with his back-cracking magic powers as & when necessary rather than having on-going treatrment which can work out very expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 02:00 PM

Invasive Chiropractic can be dangerous.

McTimoney Chiropractic usually not.

Osteopathy usually not.

Chiropractitioners and osteopaths usually know more about spines than physiotherapists who in turn usually know more about them than doctors! But as Guru says (I couldn't resist that) going every week for another 25 quid soon adds up.

This sounds like muscle spasm, so a visit to a McTimonay Chiro may be a good investment. It wil feel as if they do nothing, but the next day you will feel as if you were kicked by a horse. After that it may improve.

I had a fair bit of back pain quite a number of years ago, and a cynic told me to lose weight and get fit - and although you would not think it to look at me now, I did, and unless I get stoopid (which I do sometimes) the problem has never really been back.

Tell the gym of the back problems when you start. If they are any good they will assist you to find safe exercises for the lumbar region. If they suggest a lot of sit-ups, go elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: MMario
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 02:06 PM

have you tried wrapping your torso in streaky bacon and then applying cats?

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 02:17 PM

I am a fellow suffer. At the moment I am fine. First thing is to go to your doctor and see if it is Muscular or Neurological. A MRI scan will tell the tale. Mine showed SL3 4 and 5 were out sitting against the nerve. The pain is hard to put into words. By the time I got to see a specialist he felt an operation would not help as the damage to the nerves was done. I am on Morphine patches daily and every three months get an injection in the spine, this works for me.
So get to the doctor first.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 02:27 PM

Absolutely the best advice Divis mate! Don't try anything until you have had diagnostics done to determine the cause Ian.

Good luck.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 02:31 PM

learn the alexander technique

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Pompy
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 02:58 PM

The problem is Ian that you form an 'L' shape as you sleep. If someone can strap you into bed in the traditional 'l' shape, you'll wake up raring to go. Just be grateful it's not the 'W' shape which takes an hour and forty five minutes to sort out. Alternatively see an osteopath. There's a guy called Neil Fennel who does quite a few festivals inc Bridgnorth (I'm presuming he transferred to Shewsbury) and Towersey, who's excellent. Worked for me and I was a 'U' shape.

Next patient please

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:01 PM

honestly - find out about the alexander technique

No bullshit - get lessons from a reputed teacher

You won't regret it

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: lady penelope
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:21 PM

Snuff?


No, really, go see a professional who can at least diagnose you properly first. Different kinds of back problems will require often very different forms of treatment. Once you know exactly what the problem is, then you can decide on how you're going to treat it.

People can give you advice on how to help your back pain, but what they're really telling you is how to help their back pain. Apply the wrong treatment to you condition and you may very well make it worse!

Once you've sorted out the initial problem, it probably is a good idea to do something like the Alexander technique. Bad posture is the cause of more back pain than anything else. Alexander technique is really good because it's all about balancing the body round the spine. It's even used by yoga teachers for the warm up exercises in yoga classes.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:39 PM

An advertisement for travel to India (BBC News channel) shows two lovelies massaging the 'sufferer' with their bare feet.

Recommended without reservations!

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM

the majority of back pain, muscle injuries and other osteopathic/chiropractic issues are caused by tension in your muscles.

Not just the large motor muscles but the multitude of tiny postural muscles that hold your body together.

If you learn Alexander from a good teacher who knows their stuff (there are lots of charlatans out there) it is possible (as any professional who has researched it will tell you) to self treat in a sustainable and extremely effective way.

I know of cases where people have been receiving osteopathic/chiropractic therapy for long periods of time with no real results to write home about, but big improvements have been made in maters of weeks once they have begun a course of alexander lessons.

"Lessons" sounds strange in the context of therapy, but it is the appropriate word as it is something you learn how to do not something that is done to you.

It isn't mystical mumbo jumbo, it is grounded in very solid physiological knowledge.

It translates well into all sorts of other areas, yoga, dance, singing etc but primarily it is about health.

I learned it from a PROFESSIONAL.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:57 PM

All well Dave I hope. At first when my problems started I went to every private Osteopath and physiotherapist and witch doctor. When my appointment at Musgrave Park hospital in Belfast arrived I got an earful for seeing these guys, he said they could have done more harm then good. Lucky for me none of them would touch me ! Ian see your doctor please.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 04:04 PM

A proper diagnosis is first. Go from there.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 05:38 PM

Been to the doc, who gave me anti-inflammatories and strong pain killers. Says he can't examine me until the pain subsides, so come back when it does. I'm sooooo glad he didn't try to manipulate my back!

Your suggestions seem mostly considered, sensible and reasonable. Thank you. I'm doing or considering all those.

The original post asked for wierd, 'alternative' remedies.

Bobad, that rack looks so very comfortable, thank you.

MMario, no, I haven't tried streaky bacon or cats. This is a problematic cure, as I'm a vegan. Well, I suppose as long as I don't put either the streaky bacon or the cat in my mouth ...

Popinjay, thanks for making me laugh. It hurts to laugh, but it's good!

Q, India sounds really good. However, now I can hardly walk, never mind get into a car or on a plane. Do you think those barefoot masseurs do home visits?

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Bert
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:56 PM

Carry a cushion around and put it in the small of your back when you sit down - especially in the car.

Also lay off of the caffeine, you don't REALLY want to take anything that livens up your nerves at a time like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Bert
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:58 PM

Oh, and I forgot. If you are taking any kind of pain killers then STAY IN BED.

If you try to work while taking pain killers then you can make matters worse 'cos you can't feel any additional strain.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give wierd help
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:03 PM

Take up the bodrhan or fiddle - the noise will deaden the pain! Alternativel I will volunteer to come and walk up and down your spine - kill or cure :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:51 PM

Hello GUEST Ian Pittaway.
I am an Osteopath known by many festival-goers, particularly at Sidmouth and Chippenham festivals.
As has been stated above. the first thing is to get a diagnosis. Unfortunately, as Richard Bridge stated above, GP's usually know less about musculo-skeletal conditions than do osteopaths, chiropractors or physiotherapists. If an osteopath needs imaging diagnosis (s)he will refer a patient, either through their GP or direct.
As regards the fact that manipulation "can do more harm than good", this is a view held by very few doctors, usually those still remaining from the Dark Ages. In fact, the treatment recommended by NHS for back pain is manipulation followed by gentle exeercise.
However, be careful of any GP who might offer to manipulate you himself! a number have gone on a weekend course and then think that they can manipulate you as well as an osteopath who has undergone a four-year full-time course!
A few GP's have also done a full-time course in osteopathy, when they will have the letters LCOM after their names.
I have four GP's as regular partients, all of whom are very happy with my treatment of them but although they are permitted by the GMC to refer patients, their contracts with their practices do not allow them, due to the bonuses achived by the practice for keeping the patients within house.
As for Osteopathy being "alternative", you will find quite a few osteopaths employed by the NHS!
Join Mudcat (details on opening page) and PM me for a more full reply.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Kaleea
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:14 PM

Interestingly, I was just going to suggest an osteopath! They have all the education of chiropractors, plus the education of an MD. It's what I call one stop shopping!

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: NH Dave
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:16 PM

Not knowing where you are posting from makes this advice a bit difficult, but . . .

Go to or get a referral to a Pain Center. They specialize in treating pain of various sorts, and are usually pretty good at what they do. My local folks shot two lots of Cortisone into the spaces between my lower vertebrae, where the pain was originating, and the cure has worked for about 9 months so far. This needs to be done by someone who knows what s/he is doing. My doctor had me on the table, sedated, using something like X-ray to tell exactly where he was shooting the steriod. These injections may need to be repeated every 6-12 months until your back and nerves get the message.

If your country doesn't do Pain Centers, get a referral to and work with a neurologist to determine what is causing the pain, and then follow his/her advice.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 12:10 AM

I damaged my L5-S1 when I was in my 20s.

Two things have helped me greatly.

1)

Lie down on the floor - not on a cold surface. At first you will need to do this with your knees elevated, but as you get the stretch working, you will be able to get them down on the floor.

The 'trick' is to get your spine as close to the floor as possible - at first you will find it is high off the floor so try gently to get it down there. As you get more strtech over time you will be able to keep it on the floor as you lower first one knee, then eventually both knees. This stretch can often give immediate relief (to the 'slipped disk' area pain) once you can do it.

2)

In the gym, there is a technique called 'fly's, where you hold a weight in each hand, your arms up at your shoulder level, and bring your hands towards and away from your chest.

What I discovered was extremely helpful to reduce back pain was 'half fly's - where you only do this one arm at a time. You lay on a bench, and at first you put your feet down on the floor, but as you build strength, you can balance yourself on the bench, feet up.

What you are strengthening are the 'spinal rotator' muscles, which are rather difficult to isolate, at least without having vertical weight on the spine, as most of the standard 'spinal rotator strengthener' excercises do. Most of the gym intructors had never heard of this technique - can't say I invented it! - but they all agreed that was great for assisting those with back problems, and could not aggravate the existing problems, cause the weight was off the area.

After a few months, I had worked up to 5Kg weights in each hand - hold one arm fully extended while doing the 'half-fly' with the other, also works things harder than holding it over your chest, If you get real strong, you can even swing BOTH hands to the left and right too!

When the 'spinal rotators' get very good tone, they hold the spine (the disks) tightly and I found far less pain from movement, even for years after.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 12:15 AM

I should have added that I also got lots of professional help, but the two things I mentioned - the first one advised to me by a professional - have assisted long term more than any other temporary palliative treatment, including TCNS.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 02:51 AM

Good point further back (sorry) - we are all telling you how to cure our back pain! But what else can we do. In my experience of my back:

1. "Been to the doc, who gave me anti-inflammatories and strong pain killers." This is essential the pain has to stop - you wont become addicted or resistant but you might get constipated.

2. If you don't have pain, then you have pain, find out what provokes it and stop doing it. It has been low chairs, lifting, washing up at a low sink, soft beds for me and tucking my trousers into my socks.

3. If you can find exercise that strengthens your back, that should help but it sounds difficult and could make things worse - Of this I have no experience.

When in pain find videos to watch, music to listen to, books to read and don't feel guilty that you are unable to do much. Just enjoy as best you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 05:52 AM

Seriously.. get cats. Mine sit nicely on my back when I lie on my front so I get a nice warm heatpad glow.... They will massage you (the claws can get a bit painful, but there are people who will pay good money for that sort of treatment) when they feel like it, and keep you fed (providing you like mice). They'll also snuggle up against you in bed, thus keeping you to the unorthodox but convenient (for them) R shape.

LTS ~ cat owned by 3 and not had a bad back for years. Manitas is a cat repellant and is suffering from a bad back.... you do the equations!

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Bert
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 02:05 PM

And don't bend over to pick things up. Bend your knees instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 05:47 PM

As long as you know its not kidney trouble or bulging herniated disks, you could get relief with magnetic as well as electrical stimulation.

Combining Sulindac with narcotics might work.

supportive orthopedics are good for a few hours.

hot tubs

wild wesson oil orgies,
maybe not for the back for the spirit.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 05:52 PM

Bert, "And don't bend over to pick things up." Just the thought of it makes me jealous! I *have* to bend my knees and behave like I have a lamp post down my back - the alternative is excruciating. The pain killers are beginning to work now, I'm glad to say - constant gnawing pain now instead of lightning strikes followed by waking up the whole neighbourhood. Now I'm beginning to get just tired. Being in this much pain is so exhausting. So ... any wonderfully wacky or wierd cures, anyone? Lots of sense in these posts, but light on the jokes to keep me amused. And I'm supposed to have a gig on Friday - yikes!

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:09 PM

oxycodone will not cause tiredness or strong dependency.

oxycontin will cause numbness in face and hands and a heroin like dependency which is fine if you are treating chronic agony or if you are stuck in an elevator with Jerry Falwell, Rush Limbaugh and Tucker Carlson.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:34 PM

Don't get out of bed.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:25 PM

GUEST Ian Pittaway
If you ask around you will find a number of Mudcatters who can vouch for my treatments - Cllr, Fiddler, MBS Lynne, Breton Cap, plus others.
Contact me direct at [e-mail] and I will discuss your case with you directly.
I am a professional Osteopath so can give advice (no charge) based on many years of practice.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:55 PM

where are you?

some chiropracters are very good, others not so great.

I've had more success with men chiropracters than women - I suspect a degree of strength is called for. but I could be wrong - it could be just coincidence.

There was a terrific one at the Nottingham Chiropractic Clinic called Paul Allason, but he moved up to Richmond in Yorkshire. the guy at Nottingham is very good

Or was very good -its a few years since I needed his services. I think you need to ask locally and find out what's on offer.

Paul was astonishing though. I was on co proxamol - maximum eight a day and the stuff wasn't even touching the pain. He poked his fingers right inside my back - and said look all your muscles have gone into spasm - they're in knots and he simply unknotted them, flattened them out with his fingers.

Then he loosened up the joints in the usual way with a collapsing bed sort of thing, and the short wave massager. They probably all have the same bag of tricks, but some of them are really talented.

I wish I could help better.

al

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Pompy
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:07 PM

Have you tried back-friendly foods?

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:09 PM

Osteopaths sound like th3e right path to me

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 03:36 PM

You want weird? Try prayer and a trip to Lourdes.

If you are insured get a CAT-scan to check which area has the displaced vertebra (it sounds like you might have). A copy of the scan will help an osteopath or chiropractor.

This is the only value of a cat, for back pain.

If all else fails (and it if it is a disc prolapse) then a fusion operation can be good. It is not failsafe, but I know a lawyer (or rather, used to know a lawyer) called Mo Yusef it worked very well for.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 03:45 PM

"This is the only value of a cat, for back pain."


My cats are very helpful for back pain..they do know how to lift the spirits...but the little buggers will steal the heating pad quicker than you can imagine!

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: My guru always said
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 04:52 AM

I can certainly vouch for Bonecruncher!!! He's very well known at a lot of UK Festivals and Song & Ale's and is a friend to many on the Festival circuit. I haven't had to call on his services (though I know many who have), but I would ask him for help or advice if needed without any qualms.

As a matter of interest I was going to post this before Colyn mentioned that Catters knew him, but he got here first!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 04:51 PM

I meant to seek out Bonecruncher at Towersey, because I've got a problem heel.... Ah well.. another day.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 07:32 PM

Thanks for the plug, MGAS.
LTS - PM me about your problem and I will try to advise.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: My guru always said
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 04:22 AM

A problem heel LTS? Not policeman's foot is it? I've had that experience only 2 weeks ago & the heel is still a bit sore. Hope Colyn can help whatever it is!

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 10:45 AM

Nwe research for an old thread topic:

Tylonol not effective, research 

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 10:47 AM

Should read "Tylenol"in last link.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 11:43 AM

Should read "paracetamol", which is the generic name that most of the world uses for the drug which in the US has "Tylenol" as a common brand name.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140724094025.htm

A friend of mine had low back pain that developed over a few weeks. She found herself persistently leaning to one side. She tried massage but it didn't do anything. Got me to try and I couldn't do anything either. I never saw her again after that. She developed a massive infection from the underlying cause, multiple myeloma, and died within a month. The reason she was leaning to one side was because her vertebrae were being eaten away. (Most cases of multiple myeloma are diagnosed after emergency admission, even in countries like the UK with adequate preventive health care). So I tend to the "get it checked out" school of thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Rumncoke
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 04:04 PM

After a couple of unhelpful trips to the doctor - advice such as don't pick up the children is not what is needed - I decided to go to the gym.

I graduated to the 'pull down on this bar' machine after a week or so, and after the demo I included it in my routine. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.

I was sore for several days, and half an inch taller.

I can only assume that the lengthening effect realigned vertebrae in my lower back displaced by having children - they both started out at over 9lb and grew like weeds.

I used the machine without the strange sensation and twinges, so presumably it was fixed with the single set of ten repetitions

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 04:30 PM

I came across a back condition and related exercuses a few days ago. It seems interesting.

Interesting exercises for this back condition 

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: LadyJean
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 12:08 AM

A heating pad will do you a world of good. I did some interesting things to my back trying to move a voting machine. The heating pad made me human again. Aspirin is good stuff. When I was working Christmas gift wrap I used to take an 8 hour aspirin before I started my shift. By the time it kicked in, I needed it.

DO see a doctor. Manipulating a cracked vertebrae will make a bad situation worse.   I reccomend a massage therapist. I have some back trouble, thanks, in part, to my sister's idea of fun when we were kids. Massage helps a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Back problems - please give weird help
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 12:32 AM

Me too, It was 48 degrees this morning due to a POLAR VORTEX.

A HOT TUB AND BACKBRACE WHILE REMAINING ACTIVE AS POSSIBLE ALONG WITH PAINKILLERS