BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom

Subject: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 05:12 AM

My neighbourhood has been plagued by a peeping tom who gets his kicks by shining a powerful infra-red torch through people's windows.

The guy is clearly breaking the law on behaviour liable to lead to a breach of the peace, and probably quite a few other things. However, I was told last night that infra-red torches are banned here in the United Kingdom.

I've asked the police whether this is true, and they were unable to give me an on the spot answer.

Does anybody know for certain whether infra-red torches are banned in the UK and even better, what act of parliament they're banned under ? It would be extremely helpful if I could quote the same the next time I talk to the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 06:54 AM

Gosh - for a moment I thought this was a thread about that excellent ceilidh band, Peeping Tom, from Coventry.

I don't think infra red is banned but aren't there rules about those light pen things used as pointers in lectures and so on. I know these are banned from some public places like football grounds but that might just be a local rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 07:04 AM

The laser pens can be dangerous if shone directly into someone's eye.
Infrared is probably intrusive, but not an immediate physical danger.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Flash Company
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 07:17 AM

A quick 'google' produces a number of UK companies offering infra-red light systems, one of which actually specifies 'Suitable for Covert purposes'

FC

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 07:38 AM

How do they know it's an infra-red torch? They won't be able to see it, as you feel infra-red wavelengths as heat, and the companies making these things are advertising torches of a few hundred milliwatts as high power, so you won't feel it

Do you mean an infra-red night vision system, which someone might use to look into dark houses? They often will have an attached IR source. If so, thick curtains are your answer. Any standard insulation measure, to keep your house warm, will keep such spying out.

I know the police carry them as standard kit in a patrol car, but I'm guessing from the list of people UK based sites are trying to sell such sights to, ((casual or professional wildlife observation, conservation, home or professional security, land management, gamekeeping, marine, search and rescue or law enforcement)) snip.
that they are legal.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 08:25 AM

I tihnk they are against the law, I might be wrong but I know that if they are shone into someone's eyes then they can cause damage.

So they should be illegal I think

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 08:44 AM

I'll bet we're talking the red laser light pens here, and not true infra red stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 08:52 AM

True night vision devices no longer use infrared and haven't for about thirty-five or more years. Instead, they use electronics to gather in what light there is and form images from that. An early example of this was the "Starlight Scopes" used for sniping and survelliance in Vietnam.

Infrared-based vision devices are WW2 and Korean War technology, easily spotted because of the IR source needed. The new stuff, not needing a source of IR, is covert.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:58 AM

Very true Rapiere. But for civilians, who are not likly to be looking for someone with the gear to detct them, or shoot back, is it an important distinction?

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 10:29 AM

Mind you now, I'm just a dumbass from the States where we can't see infrared light. See, infra means "below" and red light has the longest wave that the human eye can see so infrared is actually below that and can't be detected except as radiation. So an IR flashlight wouldn't be any too bright here but maybe they are in England................Might be the fog or something.......Or maybe it has something to do with the royalty thing. We're stuck without a royal family to issue some decrees or maybe we could have really bright infrared flashlights too.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Amos
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 10:32 AM

If somone is going to go to that much trouble -- climb a tree, hide in a bush, carry an infrared source AND wear special goggles to see the reflected light -- in order to find out what Mrs Bumly-Cholmesley-Jones-Raffington has under her windbreaker, I'm afraid he's in a losing business. Fifteen minutes on the internet will get him far better results in the exposed body parts department, for much less effort and much less risk.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 11:45 AM

Let me try again. The device this creep is using has a very large very bright red beam and I'd guess the lens must be about two inches in diameter. It is much too powerful to be an infra-red pen, which the police tell me were outlawed in Britain after several people had been blinded by them. This thing produces a very intense light and I have been caught in the glare of it a couple of times from approximately 120 feet away. You can't see anything for quite a long time afterwards. Also, the beam takes a noticeable length of time, perhaps a second or more, to go from a tiny glow to full strength.

Incidentally, I don't think he's a pervert, at least not a sexual one. He does though seems to be getting some perverted pleasure from causing distress and discomfort to people.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 12:18 PM

Sounds to me like a very powerful flashight (torch) with a red filter on it. A 6-cell Maglite can have from 30,000 candlepower, and there are other lights, such as the Maxabeam, which will put out up to 7.5 million candlepower (Maxabeams were sold to the SAS, among others). Slap a red theatre gel on the front.... (Red filters are sold for many flashlight to help preserve the night vision of the user.)

If the thing is about 2 inches across it's not a laser, because I suspect there would be complaints about the power drain if it were.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Dead Horse
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 12:27 PM

Mebbe you got aliens, huh?
I seen a few recently, but that could be due to the time of year :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 12:34 PM

uh, Fred........Look man, it ain't a damn infrared torch so it doesn't matter if it's banned or not. If it were a LASER of the size you describe it would be a lot more then aggravating!

Just have the guy busted for all he IS doing and get it over with.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 02:19 PM

A decent Infrared illuminator should not be visible, and certainly shouldn't be seen as a "bright light." It's possible this person (not necessarily a guy?) has got him/herself an old surplus IR vision device that's not quite up to snuff in the performance department.

The second or so that it takes to build up to full brightness most likely is because his "lens" is leaking out the sides. When he points slightly away from you, it looks dimmer because all you're seeing is the "leakage." As he swings the beam in your direction it appears to get brighter.

Infrared filters are available for cameras, and it's possible he's just looking for wildlife to photograph. If he has really shitty collimation of his beam, and lots of leakage, the "shining in the windows" would be unavoidable if he's scanning the hedgerows for skunks - in any reasonably dense housing area. He/she may not be deliberately shining the light into peoples windows. A "real Klutz" might even really believe it's "invisible" to everyone else, and might just be really careless.

Infrared photography is a sort of fun thing, but the most common use of infrared photo filters now is for the night scenes in the movies. You can't expect actors to emote in the dark, and most of them are so clumsy they'd risk hurting themselves; so the scenes are filmed in broad daylight, through an IR filter, to make it look like it was dark. Normally, for this usage, no "extra" IR illumination is needed, since normal daylight contains enough IR for pretty decent photography, and the ordinary movie lights are hot enough to produce quite a lot - invisibly.

UV observation is a lot more popular in my area, 'cause they've found that all scorpions fluoresce under UV light. They used to be almost impossible to find, but UV makes it easy to spot them so the "scientists" can watch their "domestic activities."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 02:55 PM

The only skunk in my area is the bastard who's been shining a very powerful beam straight into my windows and following me round the house with it. He is not a wildlife photographer. As I've since found out he lives six doors away from me. How do I know ? Tonight I caught him at it, along with two accomplices The three of them ran off with me shouting after them. I then rang the police. While I was talking to the police officer, this little scumbag's father came out and accused me of being "very abusive" to the poor sod!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't it grand to have nice neighbours?

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: jeffp
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 03:05 PM

So it's a kid?

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 03:22 PM

So it turns out. The laugh of it is that I wouldn't have realised who he was if his father hadn't come out out mouthing all over the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 03:26 PM

I had the thought that only a kid would be likely to be up to something of the sort. A "real pervert" likely would have better knowledge of what equipment to be using ... and what it was good for.

Two questions come up:

1. What the $#^!@ did the kid think he was doing?

2. Even if "dad" came on to you, will he still take the kid home and whack the crap out of him?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Peace
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 03:29 PM

Our department would love to have an IR scanner. They are mucho bucks, FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Metchosin
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM

Sounds to me more like an red LED torch or flashlight, What's wrong with you people? Its Hallowe'en! I'm sure most here did as bad or worse stuff when they were kids than shine a flashlight in some neighbour's windows. I know I did. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 05:31 PM

It's been going on for too long to be a Hallowe'en prank, Metchosin.

If the kid would have been doing that in some places around here he might have gotten himself shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Metchosin
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:44 PM

Well, one thing I have noticed that's changed since I was a kid is that pranks, vandalism and firecrackers start at least 2 or 3 weeks prior to the arrival of Hallowe'en around here.

Fortunately one thing here, that hasn't changed much, is the likelihood of some dumb kid getting his brains blown out by a gun because of such stuff. One of the reasons I prefer to live where I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:53 PM

A guy was arrested in New Jersey a couple of years ago for shining a laser pointer of some sort at the pilots in jets at the airport. It wasn't considered a joke.
Here is the story.

If you complained to the police about this light being shone in your house, then the police should take it up with the father and the kids. With or without the light, it is still trespassing.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:56 PM

Not on Hallowe'en, no, they wouldn't. But before...or after...could happen, especially in rural areas. Cattle have been killed on local ranches recently.

Of course, the shooter would be arrested and probably jailed. Idaho might be The Wild West, but you still have to have a damned good reason to shoot someone. Problem isn't with the legitimate folks, but with the nut cases and the thugs. (The first shooting in three years in the Old Town happened this past summer. The shooter shot just, literally just!, as two cops walked around the corner and saw the whole thing. Yes, the guy was caught and is enjoying a long stay behind bars. The guy who was shot has completely recovered, as the bullet barely penetrated his skin. The cops here do NOT shoot unless they are pushed very hard to do so -- ever since they started using the "orange shotguns" with beanbag rounds "suicide by cop" has become unusual here.)

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Metchosin
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:57 PM

Gee, remind me to call the police the next time my neighbour turns his backyard floodlight on. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:23 AM

It wasn't a flashlight and it was going on for at last a week before Halloween. Last Saturday, this collection of scumbags were following my every move all over the house. They kept this up for over an hour. Whatever they were using was powerful enough to shine straight through my curtains. I don't call that much of a Halloween prank.


Sounds to me more like an red LED torch or flashlight, What's wrong with you people? Its Hallowe'en! I'm sure most here did as bad or worse stuff when they were kids than shine a flashlight in some neighbour's windows. I know I did. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:23 AM

Fred:

(1) If you can see it, it's not infra red, it's visible red.
(2) They are following your movements, you say- with the curtains drawn? No red (or infra- red) light can see through adequate curtains. Not only does the light have to get through, but an image has to get back. So
(3) make sure it's real, and you're not having spots before the eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Metchosin
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:31 AM

Well they certainly got the response they intended. Kids usually target the neighbour with the shortest fuse or the one most likely to get bent out of shape, in response to a prank. While the technology may have advanced, the workings of some kid's minds haven't changed much in 50 years. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 11:22 AM

From the description it is pretty apparent that the kids have laser pen.   They could damage your eyes, and the incident with the NJ pilot is a very well known story here.   It is against the law here in the U.S. to point them at airplanes.

I am surprised it went through curtains. Perhaps you have lace curtains?

Subject: RE: BS: Infra-red Peeping Tom
From: Metchosin
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:56 PM

Any laser pen I've ever seen hasn't had a 2 inch radius, but if one is nervous or angry, things can get blown out of all proportion, even the size of a beam of light.