Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 10:06 PM

My Gawd, is this thing still going on!??

Amazing!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 09:04 PM

ok, so just because they look like real woman, and sing beautifully you guys have to go out and accuse them of lip syncing?? ok. and for "i heard violin music after she stopped" she's the main fiddler. and when she isnt playing, the orchestra that accompanys them take over. so that is why you hear violin music. and have you guys ever heard of the word "PRACTICE"????? you know its what people do to get it perfect. so her jumping around on stage, isnt her first time doing it she PRACTICES! if any of you guys do music, you know what its like. their voices are genuine. they have crystal clear voices none of the chest gunk, and such. they use their voice as a musical insturment which is what it is ment for. so next time you go and ridicule celtic womans perfromance remember they PRACTICE. PRACTICE makes PERFECT...goodness people they make beautiful music and i hope they keep changing the world into a better place with their voices.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 06:48 AM

Ive been holding back for some time on this but Im going to post it publically. Yes on the live tour shows they do Lip Sync some of the songs. Her is the breakdown by performer.....you have to figure out which songs they are.


...all group numbers ( minus one). Solo songs, Orla does one live, Meav does all of hers live, Lisa does all but one live, Chloe lip sync's minus one
(8:55:34 PM) : Hayley ALWAYS sang live................

But of course Hayley is no longer with Celtic Woman

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,JKL
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 10:41 PM

*Repost of above, correcting a few typos*

AWG, just because the show you attended didn't appear to be lip-synching doesn't mean that previous shows weren't doing it. I mean look at the "great" Pavaroti, he had been lip-synching for a long time until he was busted...after that he had no choice but to go back to singing live. Now, about the "live" DVD. I'll tell you this, I wrote to the producers of the Celtic Woman show, in a journalistic capacity, asking them directly if lip-synching was used for the DVD. The answer was that the audio heard on the DVD and the video seen are pasted together from different "performances" in order to "enhance" the DVD production. This came directly from the CW producers. As far as the "live" DVD at least, yes, it's a conclusive and total misrepresentation, by their own admission. As far as the purportedly live shows, I can't speak for that because I haven't attended. My initital comment still applies, though, it's very possible that the earlier shows were in fact lip-synched, and when the rumors started flying and the questions arising, they then possibly went to real live shows. But in regards to the DVD, this is not really a live production, but a dubbed one. Cheers, J.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,JKL
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 10:34 PM

AWG, just because the show you attended didn't appear to be li-synching doesn't mean that previous shows weren't doing it. I mean look at the "great" Pavaroti, he had been lip-synching for a long time until he was busted...after that he had no choice but to go back to singing live. Now, about the "live" DVD. I'll tell you this, I wrote to the producers of the Celtic Woman show, in a journalistic capacity, asking them directly if lip-synching was used for the DVD. The answer was that the audio heard on the DVD and the video seen are pasted together from different "performances" in order to "enhance" the DVD production. This came directly from the CV producers. As far as the "live" DVD at least, yes, it's a conclusive and total misrepresentation, by their own admission. As far as the purportedly live shows, I can speak for that because I haven't attended. My initital comment still applies, though, it's very possible that the earlier shows were in fact lip-synched, and when the rumors started flying and the questions arising, they then possibly went to real live shows. But in regards to the DVD, this is not really a live production, but a dubbed one. Cheers, J.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Well into Music
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:07 AM

Dear All, some months later and I was checking the net for "Riverdance" and "lip synching" and I got to your forum. I am an amateur musician, but music is a big part of my life ... and I have seen lips and instruments not matching the sounds that were heard. I went recently to a Riverdance performance and I purchased a DVD. I am disappointed and irritated that (as I thought during the performance) voices and instruments do not always match.
Live is live. If it is "canned", then a CD should be enough.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 01:24 PM

Sorry to hear that, Tony. Thanks for the heads-up. It would still be fun to go to a M & G, but how much is too much ? PBS must be catering to the rich folks, because most people wouldn't be able to spring for the $1000 or more to go. For that money, you should at least get to have dinner with the girls, and backstage at the show !! Now THAT would be an experience !! :-)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 11:50 AM

For future reference.....there was front row seats for Toronto on Ebay less then a month ago. And the price wasnt too bad all things considered....$250 for 2 tickets. I have gotten several tickets that way. Remember all the good seats go to the scalpers first so that is a good place to look. The seats I got for wolftrap were Row CCC Pitt. Thats third row. You have to pay more for them but as I have said in the past, the days of cheap CW tickets for the best seating are long gone. PBS has basically taken the price levels to outragous ammounts along with the meet and greets. What ever you do stay away from PBS in Boston (WGBH) they along with CW LTD ripped us off good this spring.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 09:06 AM

Alcan1, my goal next time is first 2 rows. Heck, might as well be right on stage with them ! :) I can only imagine what it must have been like from your seats. Way to go ! See you at a show next year.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 12:49 AM

AWG..Glad you liked the show. They are all awesome. You have to see it many times to be able to take it all in. The Hummingbird Theater is one of the bes theaters Ive seen them in and I love love to go back there. Also I still want to go to the CN Tower as well. I had that planed but I had to scrap that at the last second.

Row 9 for you isnt too bad. I had row 1 when I was there. I got very lucky on that. Was able to get 4 fromt row tickets for Brian, Jenny, Rickie and myself. It was a blast.

I love the lighting for the live tour instead of DVD. My favorite part is when during Sing out the lights sweep acroos the whole theater. I always turn around to watch them.

I was going to see them one more time this year but due to my relief at work haveing a major heart attack Ive had to cancle my trip to Washington DC. Well mybe next year. At least my coworker is OK.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 12:40 AM

"Sounds like a cross between "Coronation Street, The Musical" & "Celtic Woman, First Blood" ..... Is there a chariot race?"

Yep....You got that right. You hit the nail on the head. AND THE SAGA CONTINUES!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 08:20 PM

Sounds like a cross between "Coronation Street, The Musical" & "Celtic Woman, First Blood" ..... Is there a chariot race?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Manx
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 08:00 PM

That was a wealth of background info. Thanks, Alcan. Poor Deirdre. I have never heard of her. My Mother has just gotten me into them, as she got their albums.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 06:28 PM

AWG> This issue is now put to rest
AWG> End of discussion

In your dreams!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 05:43 PM

I thought they had an Anti-Stalking law in Torrana'!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 01:52 PM

Okay, so I went to the Hummingbird Theatre in Toronto last night to catch Celtic Woman's live show in front of 3200+. From the 9th row centre, it was more than obvious to me that there was absolutely NO lip-synching going on, and I was paying close attention, believe me, after hearing you guys rant about how they lip synch. My conclusion ??... It was 100% real, and well worth the money to attend. I now believe all those who professed to attending a CW show and that it was a 'lip synch' fest, as one poster put it, are wrong, wrong, wrong. That lady that left after 30 minutes (guest,Cat) couldn't be more wrong. Mr. Tuba nailed it ! This issue is now put to rest, Celtic Woman are REAL and perform LIVE with NO lip-synching. End of discussion. P.S. Alcan1, now I see why you keep going back.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:40 AM

Due to time restraints, like Alcan1 stated, I wouldn't be surprised if ALL tracks were identical, Manx. I mean, it is supposed to be the 'A New Journey 'CD so why not use the same songs from the DVD minus applause ?. Please, keep us posted. Just curious.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 04:47 PM

You could be right. The CD tracks on some of the songs may be identical. I can assure you that the DVD was recorded over 2 seperate nights. The CD was done AFTER the filming. To understand why a few of the tracks may be identical to the DVD you need some background information on CW. Ill try to be as breif as possible.

CW was founded and the First DVD was recorded in September of 2004 and was released in the US and on PBS on March 1, 2005. One of the performers (MEAV) became pregnant either shortly before or shortly after the filming of the first DVD was done. As a result she wasnt able to perform for the first tour that CW did in the late spring/early summer of 2005. Therefore a replacement was named for the first tour while MEAV was on maternity leave. Her name was Deirdre Shannon. Deirdre performed in MEAVs place for the summer of 2005 and MEAV was expected to return for her first tour with CW in the fall of 2005. About 4 weeks before the fall tour started MEAV announced that she was not going to be joining the tour, that she wanted to spend time with her daughter, record her new album, and do limited solo touring. As a result Deirdre stayed on for the fall 2005 tour as well.

Deirdre performed that tour which ended in November 2005. CW returned to Ireland for the christmas holidays and they all worked on the new arrangements for the upcomming sprin 2006 tour. In December 2005 CW announced the spring tour dates which was to begin on March 8. 2006. Before the spring tour was in the US started, CW released all the solo albums of all the performers in the US under the Manhatten/EMI record label. There was one exception to this....Deirdres was not released on 1/10/06 along with the rest of them. For some reson it was held back. On Febuary 17, 2006 CW performed their first PUBLIC concert in Ireland at The Point in Dublin. Deirdre Shannon was there instead of MEAV as MEAV was still on maternity leave. The plan was that after that concert in Ireland CW was to be on a plane 5 hours after the end of that show for thier promotional tour of Japan which was to run from 2/19 - 2/28 2006. MEAV would be staying behind to care for her daughter and Deirdre would be going along with the rest of the group. Within minutes of the Point concert ending it was announced to Deirdre that MEAV would be on that plane to Japan with the rest of the group and Deirdre was fired.

The group did their promotional tour of Japan and CW was silent as to who would be attending the tour in the US untill March 1 2006. The spring tour was to start in Toronto in just 8 days. MEAV was pulled in at the last minute and forced to do the promotional tour and the US tour. Deirdre was left out in the cold and was devistated. It was just several weeks earlier that CW LTD told her that she would remain with CW untill the fall of 2006 and there was even talk about her joining the show as a permanent member. As a result of these actions by Dave Kavanagh and Sharon Browne, Deirdre took legal action against Celtic Woman LTD.

CW recorded their Christmas album in July 2006 and began work on the DVD arrangments which was to be filmed in Augest. CW announced the filming date and sent out the invite 28 days prior to the filming.

They entered into talks to bring her back in the summer of 2006 after the summer tour just prior to the filming of the DVD A New Journey on Aug. 23 - 24 2006. Deirdre was added back to the CW official site in early Augest and then she was removed from it shortly before the filming was to take place. Deirdre never returned and CW gave no statement concerning her. Several days before the filming Hayley cut her vacation short and went to Ireland to join CW.

Thus as a result of this, the DVD was filmed FIRST and the 2 CDs that were made of A New Journey was done after the filming. Thats why Hayley is on Both the CD and the DVD. Had the CD been done first Hayley wouldnt have been on the CD because she wasnt a mamber untill several days prior to the filming.

Sharon Browne was removed from her management position from CW LTD for the duration of the production of the DVD and Ivan Gavin the COO of EMI took her place. Scott Porter (Lisa Kellys husband)was added as the "company production manager" during the summer and was promoted to the GENERAL MANAGERs position after Sharon Browne was fired at the completion of the filming of A New Journey and Ivan Gavin surrendered his place as managing director (Sharon Brownes former position) to the newly created General Managers position filled by Scott Porter.

Celtic Woman did their National Tour of Japan in early October 2006 for 3 weeks. So when you take all this into account they simply didnt have enough time to record a full studio album as they did for their first CD and DVD. With the touring they were doing and a release date of 12/2/2006 for the PBS stations they would have had to use the audio from the 2 live performances for the studio album on several of the tracks.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Manx
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 03:37 PM

....unless, of course, the CD was recorded from this performance and the crowd applause was not recorded by the soundboard. I am willing to concede this. I have overlapped 4 tracks and every one is identical.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Manx
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:48 PM

I found this thread specifically because I suspected some fishyness after watching this dvd. I cannot comment on the touring production, as I haven't seen it. I have no doubt that the performers are extremely talented. Perhaps too much polish is not a good thing, as it makes people doubt a genuine performance. I just feel that I bought a full length music video of a CD that I have, with some clapping over it. I intended to get new, unique recordings of these tracks.

As an eperiment, I chose the track Newgrange, which is on both video and cd, and played them overlapping each other. I found the audio was indestinguishable. Identical. No variance AT ALL. If the DVD is several performances, one without audience etc, then that is the ONLY way this is a legitimate concert film. All other options point to it being a multi-song music video.

Again, I am not saying this was an entirely mimed performance for the filming, but it is definately NOT what the audience there heard. This makes me sad.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 10:10 AM

Hey Tony, welcome to Mudcat. Thought I recognized you from the LK forum, you're quite a fan. Take care, and say hi to 'the girls' for me when you see them next. C Ya.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 10:47 PM

Art:
Wow. I don't know what kind of Tuba your uncle played, but I have two Besson BBb Tubas. One is an upright that weights in at 38lbs., and the other is a Rocording model that weights in at 40lbs. It would take a lot of tornado to pick these babies up. In my next life, I am going to play the piccolo.

Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 07:47 PM

the guest post was from me. I forgot to put the username in the box....Sorry

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 07:43 PM

Been a fan since April 2005 when I first saw CW on a commerical on CNBC during the Suze Orman show. Danielle was Lisa and Orlaghs webmaster untill March of this year. When I first decided to travel the 8000 miles to see CW in Cincy in October of 2005 in the weeks prior to the show Danielle joined the first official forum and launched lisakelly.org. When it was suggested to to danielle that she attend the show in Cincy she stated she couldnt afford the gas money. As a result I wired her $150 and bought her sister Michelle a ticket to the she. I had never meet either of them before so I like her and Michelle was taking a chance. We met Lisa and Chloe after the show while waiting by the busses and Lisa knew who we all were by name even though none of us had met before. During our tour in the Pacific Northwest we were in Portland OR and there we met Josh (another fan from the forum). Danielle and Josh fell in love and were married in October of 2006. Celtic Woman brought them together. Danielle in late Aug of 2006 stated that she was letting lisakelly.org go and thats when Lisa hired her do her official site. Site was relaunched in November of 2006 and the new forum was a part of it. Since then the site was hacked and all files deleted but the forum remains. Danielle is still the webmaster but has given up on the sites for reasons I cant state publically.

Oh the one thing that pissed me off and the mugs you are refering to was the products that one member was selling with Lisas picture on it that he had printed up. That violated copywrite laws up the wazooo and Danielle amoung others were very unhappy about it.

for my complete story about my first CW show along with many of our pictures ive got it on my blog and alcan1.blogspot.com

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 07:20 PM

Hey Alcan1, how long have you been a CW fan ? Does the name Danielle mean anything to you ? What pissed you off the most on the LisaKelly.org forum ?? Something about mugs ? Just testing your identity, some posers on this sight you know. If you are who you say, Ive known you for quite a while from the CW sites. C Ya.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 06:59 PM

Just an aside for Mr. Tuba,

My old uncle played tuba out in his corn field 'cause aunt Adele wouldn't let him do it in the house. (It was music to his ears.) A tornado came along and screwed him 20 feet into the ground.

So, a word to the wise, BE CAREFUL!

Art

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 06:57 PM

AWG.........

As I always end every post on the CW forums

"LONG LIVE CELTIC WOMAN....MAY WE ALL HEAR THEM SINGING IN OUR SLEEP. ESPECIALLY MEAV. MAY WE ALL HAVE ENDLESS MEAVDAYS IN OUR DREAMS AND ENJOY EVERY SECOND OF THEM!!! AMEN"

You can guess who my favorite is. LOL MEAV!!!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 06:47 PM

I'm listening to Celtic Woman right now.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:40 PM

Oh yes!!! Ok I remember. Yep CW management is a mess. As you can see I was right all along on that. The filming for the Christmas show next month proves that. I didnt even think about attending that filming. No way would work allow that. Im lucky Ill be able to fly to Washington DC in 12 days for the show there. I cant wait. Orlagh knows were comming. Shes such a peech. :D

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:27 PM

ALCAN1:

Do you need an assistant ?? Maybe a personal driver ?? Just kidding. I have too many ties Central Florida. Last year, I believe you and my wife e-mailed each other about the CW management mess. Her name is Vickie. Anyway, good to hear from you.

Steve
Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:17 PM

Well Mr Tuba. I really wanted to go to Ireland but I work for a company that houses and feeds the workers on the Trans Alaska Oil Pipeline. I work 84 hours a week and usually work 3 months on and then take a week to 4 weeks off before returning to work. I live at work so I have no expenses.

Yes I have been to many CW shows and infact it was my first show in Cincy where I met Danielle (Lisa and Orlagh's former webmaster). Her and I are really good friends. I think you may have see some of our pictures from our group events that Ive financed. Im thinking of doing the same thing again next year. If so then I will see what can be arranged to get you to attend. I recall some of your posts on another forum but dont remember which one.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:05 PM

Jim Lad, I'm Baaack. I am for real. I just have limited time, at times. I just found out about this forum the other day. As for Alcan1. You should have gone to Ireland. If I had your money, I would have gone. Would you like to adopt a 52 year old man with a wife and son ?? All joking aside, I envy you for all the concerts you have been able to attend. Kinda like a slice of Heaven on Earth. AWG, you sound like the kind of person I could talk to for hours. But, until Alcan1 adopts me and gives me some of his unlimited fortune, I will have to work for a living.

Steve
Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mt.Tuba
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 03:53 PM

To: Jim Lad.
Mr. Tuba is the name I am known by. My name is Steve. I have been called many things, by many people. Steve & Mr.Tuba are two of the better ones.

Steve
Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 03:50 PM

The DVD audio was recorded during 2 live concert events. Boy am I now really kicking myself for not flying to Ireland last summer for the 2 day filming then I could give you a first hand account. I was invited to the filming but because of work I simply wasnt able to attend. But I do know several people who were there and have talked to them about the DVD and they have assured me that what you hear on the DVD is exactly what they heard at the filming in Ireland.

Now onto the concert tour. I should have elaberated more on my conversation with Kelvin Thompson in Seattle May,4, 2006 and why we were talking about the delay between what happens onstage and what goes out over the audio system. The night before the Seattle show the 6 of us were in Spokane Washington. During the first half of the show 4 of us were in row 7 and 2 of us in row 10. Both were in the dead center. There were 2 times during that first half of the show where there was static or "white noise" comming from the sound system. It only lasted a second or 2 each time. I figured that it could be one of 3 things. Either "white noise" comming from a wireless mic, static from a loose connection, or some type of flaw in the recorded track. So the next night before the show in Seattle, Michael and myself were able to spend an hour talking to Kelvin about the show and I mentioned what I had heard the previous night in Spokane and described it in detail. Thats when he told me about the delay and he also said that because of the placement of the main speakers and the monitor they all wear in one ear he wasnt able able to hear it himself from the stage. I was sitting in the first row balcony in Seattle that night and during that first half of the show the same static occured again in the same spot that I had heard it the previous night so I tend to think its something with the recorded track itself.

Now for those that know more about how thses tracks are laid out, are the vocals laid on a seperate channel? In other words If they were to be using prerecorded vocals and also singing live onstage could they...during the show dump from the prerecorded track and go to to live mic feed or vice versa? If so, could or would there be "white noise" or static during that process?

Prior to the Seattle show I said there was no way there was any lip synching going on. It was only after Seattle that I kept an open mind to the possibility that there was. The static and change of volume comming from the sound system was one factor. But the one thing that really sparked my interest was during the second half of the show in Seattle there were 3 in our group that moved down to the second row for the rest of the show. After the show all 3 of them reported to me that there was at least 1 time they were using a recorded track. So given the source of that first hand account I decided to keep an open mind to the possiblity. I have more that I could post on this subject but Im not going to do so at this time. But I will say this, what difference does it make if its all not totally 100% live? I love SEEING the show. There is alot more to it then the audio. I find the lighting, dancing, and the other visual effects very enjoyable. The lighting to me is really cool. There are times during "Sing Out" where the lights sweep the whole inside of the theater and that is a really cool sight to see. So it doesnt matter to me weather or not the whole audio is live comming over the sound system.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:35 PM

Nicely put, Guest Dave. However I do believe that what you hear on the DVD is what, for the most part, the audience hears. The audio is then 'enhanced' using the best technology available to give a cleaner, near perfect, end result on the DVD. I doubt they could lay an entire new audio track over the video (or vice versa) and have it match that good, right down to the tiniest picks of a guitar or violin, or the singer's voices and breaths themselves. But I admit some for sure is added in the studio after the concert. Common practice, no doubt. What do you think Jim ? Something tells me you are nearby.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,dave
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:21 PM

There are two types of lip synching. One where the pre-recorded voices are played at a concert and the singers just move their lips. This has been proven to not be the case with CW. They perform live at their concerts, as attendees have attested to.

The DVD shown on PBS is a different matter. The video footage show from Slane Castle was, for the most part from that live concert. Some addidtional closeups might have been done pre or post production because of camera placement issues, but the main filming was live during the concert. Now, the audio used for the DVD was probably not the audio captured during that show. A clean, well mixed studio recording was used for the soundtrack on the DVD, and the actual video footage was laid over to match. The wireless headset mics and instrument pickups used in concert cannot create a mix like the one one the DVD.

This is not cheating. This does not make CW hacks. When you are creating a high profile, high production DVD like this, you can't just "record the take" that you get during a live show and call it a day. If the fiddler had broken a string, or a performer had cracked a note, you wouldn't expect the producers to just say "That's the way it goes, Print it!" The DVD is a polished version of these wonderful ladies performances, and while I would expect and enjoy seeing a live show of their's with all the artifacts that come with a live performance, I'm also very pleased with a beautiful, visually stunning representation of what these woman can really do.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 04:13 PM

Could it be.....????? Naaaahhhhhhhhhh. Nobody is THAT bored !!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 11:40 AM

Funny that! Mr. Tuba dropping into Mudcat, just to help restore this dying thread and then Poof! ... he's gone.
Who was that masked man?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 10:44 AM

What cracks me up is all the 'guests' posing as industry pro's (engineers, sound mixers, etc. etc.) as if they will have any credibility as they badmouth CW. Notice how they all seem to have a lifetime of experience (so they MUST know what they are talking about, right?). I wonder if any one of them has actually even seen a CW concert or the DVD, for that matter. By the way, Jim Lad, you are obviously a closet CW fan. Don't you think it's about time you came out of the closet ?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 10:13 AM

Mr Tuba, you are awesome, I couldn't have done it without you! And Jim, don't simply watch the show, attend a live concert. Betcha you get hooked, just like Mr. Tuba and millions of others like him.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 03:13 AM

Like shooting ducks in a barrel!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Barry T
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 11:30 PM

Art> As I was often fond of saying...

LOL! Here's another one for your collection, Art. This one comes to us courtesy of a gaff by one of our former Prime Ministers here in Canada...

"You can lead a horse to drink, but you can't make him water!"

This doesn't fit the thread at all, but you gotta admit that the imagery is striking!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ART thieme
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:34 PM

As I was often fond of saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't rip his lips off!!"

ART

(I wondered when and if there would be a thread where my saying was appropriate for posting therein?! This be IT ;-)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:08 PM

Well worth the wait, Oggy!
I honestly thought I was going to have to watch the whole show just to find out for myself.
Mr. Tuba has spared me though.
Thank you very much, Mr. Tuba. (if that's your real name)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 08:41 PM

Jim Lad & AWG, thanks for the roses. As for GUEST Cathiasus, your remark about Celtic Classics is immature. Ever wonder why they make vanilla and chocolate ice cream ?? If CW sings their style of music, and Willie Nelson sings his, and The Stones sing theirs, then all styles of music get covered, and each of us can support the style that best suits our taste. I was not a fan of this kind of music in the past. Actually, I had never really heard it. But, from the first CW concert, I was hooked. In truth, my background is mostly in Southern Gospel, and Country music. My love for the CW type of music is purely because they have a sound and style that appeals to me. Each of us needs to find something that moves us, and follow that. Whatever moves you is right for you, and that is what is important to you as an individual. No real right or wrong, just personal taste.
Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 05:49 PM

I've been defending Celtic Woman throughout this entire thread, while waiting patiently for someone like Mr. Tuba to come along and back me up. I trust we can all agree now that CW is definately for real, and they do NOT lip synch. Told ya!! Na Na Na Na Na...... P.S. Hey Jim, wasn't it worth the wait ??

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:04 PM

See! I knew it! Straight from the horse's lips.
Thank You Mr. Tuba!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:00 PM

WOW !! So many panties in a wad. O.K. I have seen CW live 4 times. One time I was 6 rows back, center. One time I was 4 rows back, just off center. One time I was 3 rows back, dead center. I have heard them breathe. I have heard their raw voices off the stage. I have been a Tuba player for 42 years, and, not to brag, I am very good. I should be after all these years, or I should hang it up. Anyway, when a musician/singer breathes properly, they breathe so as to fill the bottom of the lungs first, then fill to the top of the lungs. This gives full wind capacity, support, and eliminates a nasel sound. If you breathe thru your nose, or just fill your throat, you will not have the above mentioned qualities. As for the violin bow not touching the strings, remember, a violin neck and strings are not flat, like a guitar. You have to work the bow at an angle, depending on which string you want to sound. This can give the optical illusion that the bow is not touching the strings. I have seen Mairead, up close, and she is not only playing, but she is burning up those strings faster then they can cool off. In Orlando, this week, I heard Maev's voice clearly off the stage. The lag in lip movement, to the sound coming out of the speakers is due to system travel time. I cannot understand why this is so hard to realize. There is no way you can sing into a mic, have the sound travel thru the sound system, and come out of a speaker at the exact same time that your lips are moving. DUH !! If they were to lip sync at times, I can live with that because you have to remember, these ladies are singing night after night, 20 songs, month in and month out. They go thru all kinds of weather changes here as they travel. I want to see any of you perfectionists keep up their schedule. I have sang in choirs, quartets, and as a soloists over the years. In a choir setting, my voice is good for only about 4 songs, then I am worn out. That is because in a choir, you have to project. In a quartet, or as a soloists, I can sing 8 to 10 songs, because all I have to do is sing into a mic. The sound system does the work. As for those of you who feel cheated, you have too much time on your hands. Get a hobby, and stop going to CW concerts. That will free up more good seats for the rest of us. I especially take exception to those of you who have made this a mud slinging contest against the ladies as individuals. If you do not like CW management, fine. But to attack the ladies personally, shows just what kind of bottom feeders you really are. I have personally been blessed to be able to talk to Maev, Lisa, Orla ( she signed one of our CDs ) David Downes, and Des Moore. These folks are very sweet people, and love to just stop and talk to their fans. They usually do not have a lot of free time, but I have been fortunate enough to stay in the same hotel as they did twice. We stayed accross the hall from Lisa and her family in Cary, N.C. We stayed in the Omni in Jax, and ran into Orla in the hotel driveway, and then again in the lobby. In fact, when we saw her in the driveway, she was going to the center for her sound check. When she came back, she saw us in the lobby, and she came over to us to talk some more. She did not have to do that, but she did because she is a sweet person, and she loves to see her fans. The others are much the same. Lisa came up to us also in the lobby. In N.C., Maev and her husband were talking to a man in the lobby, and I walked up to her and asked her if she was Maev. She said yes, and stood there and talked to me for about 5 minutes. She could have easily said she was busy, and excused herself, but instead, she spent time with me and my wife. CW is real, and these ladies are lovely inside and out. I could go on and on, but this subject really boils down to one thing. If you do not like CW, you will look for something, anything, to complain about. This is not about lip syncing, it is about people who want to find something to find fault with. Like I said before, if any of you what to try to keep up with them, and their schedule, good luck. I am sure you will find something else to fault them over. As for me, I cannot wait to see them again, as time and money permits. The pleasure and fun my wife and I have had going to their concerts, and meeting them, far outweighs anything else.
Mr. Tuba
P.S. I still am ready to play Tuba for them is they ever decide to add one. I want to see someone accuse me of lip syncing on the Tuba.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:38 PM

I just stumbled on this thread. Interesting topic and discussion. Im not 100% certain either way weather the WHOLE SHOW is or is not Lip-synced. However I will say this. Because this subject keeps comming up Im interested in knowing the truth either way. I will explain what I have observerd.

I have seen the show 13 times in total and will see it 1 more time this year. Ive seen the postings from day 1 about the possibility of Lip-synching. I have seen the show 6 times from the first row. I can say that I can hear their unamplified voices on stage. However there are times that it is really hard to tell. If there is Lip-synching going on then its bing done only on certain tracks. If that is the case it would be easy to fool you. One track would be live then another may be recorded. That is a possibility. One other reason I say that it is live is the fact being so close I have watched the choir very closly during a couple shows. They are the key. When watching and listening to them you can tell its live as you can hear them unamplified and at times on the stage they are very powerful and there is no mistaking the vocals from their mouths.

There are things that I have observed that also lend credibility to the Lip-synching theory. One thing I have noticed is there are times when during the vocals (both with the choir and the soloists) I have noticed that the lights on their microphone packs warn on their backs are not light then at times in the same number they are lit up yet I have still been able to hear their unamplified voices. Could it be that it is live on stage yet a prerecorded track being played over the sound system during the same number. I think thats possible but can be 100% sure.

1 thing I do know for a fact is that there is a small delay between whats going on on stage and what is heard over the sound system. This fact was stated to me by Kelvin Thompson the alternate musical director in Seattle.

During all the shows I saw with Hayley that I saw I have no doubt that she was live in all the numbers that she did. She made so many mistakes in Boston, Moheagen Sun, CT. and Both shows in New York that there wasnt any doubt that it was live and not Lip-synched. I understand that she has gotten alot better since those shows.

I love CW very much, met them many times, and maintain in contact with the members via internet. Ive traveled over 50,000 miles in total to see the shows and I for one enjoy it weather or not it is Lip-synched at times. I concede that there may be Lip-synching going on from time to time but it is so hard to tell because I can hear their unamplified voices comming from the stage. That coupled with the fact that there is an intentional delay of the sound system confirmed to me by Kelvin I think its very likely that its a combo of both live and prefabed.

As far as Mairead not playing I know for a fact that she is playing as she knows me and when Ive been in those front row seats she will spend alot of time and make the effort to play within 3 feet of me during the show. All the performers love us and know us. There are a few of us that have supported CW from day one. Their management on the other hand is a different story. Im shocked they they even answered any emails concerning Lip-synching or any other subject. I know it isnt Dave "Murry Wilson" Kavanagh answering emails. I can go on and on about the deception from the management of CW, PBS, Madstone, and the PBS stations but those problems are not the performers fault. If their is Lip-synching its not by the performers choice. The only excepting to that is if one of them were sick and was having a hard time singing then I could see them wanting to Lip-sync. The members of CW love what they do and love thier fans. I dont believe for 1 second that they would want to decieve their fans or want to make their fans feel let down in any way. I will say this....One of the members went out of their way to express their understanding to my being upset with those in their management. These performers are the real deal IMO and I beleive that most if not all the show is live. However I will concede its possible there are parts that may not be live. If that is the case I cant tell. But ill be looking for anything out of place when I travel to Washington DC in June for the last show of the year.

ALCAN1

Tony P.
VALDEZ ALASKA

Toronto 2006 Asst Group Event Host
New York City Group Fan Forum Host-
March 2007

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,B Murphy
Date: 19 May 07 - 07:01 PM

Saw them last wednesday and the complete proof for me was in the first song of the 2nd chunk when it starts out with the 2 percussionists drumming on the bodhran's. They get to a part of the song where there's wind chimes playing (which is normally the 2nd percussionists part, but he's on stage with a bodhran in hand).