BS: Pub Names

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Bob Hitchcock
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 06:08 PM

Why not call it "Free Beer"? be great for attracting customers.

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 04:58 AM

Some vague memory in the recesses of a gin-sodden brain tells me that the name 'The Case is Altered' was thought to have been brought back by soldiers from Spain, and refers to the casa altera (sp?), or high house, selling hooch.
But I may be horribly wrong, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 05:35 AM

Lot's of myths or near-myths about pub names, like the Elephant and Castle coming from Infanta de Castille, or the Square ond Compasses from the supposed puritan phrase His Care Encompasseth Us. Perhaps The Bulls Head came from Double Zed, the Wheatsheaf from The Witch Heath (as in Macbeth)

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 05:46 AM

Ah, a goo d can o' worms there, Guest.
Certainly there seem to be other views on The Case is Altered. And the Elephant and Castle would certainly seem to have nowt to do with infantas - or even Fanta - and more to do with knife handles.
There are some links and wittering here, and some more talk of fabled names on Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 06:26 AM

At what point, as you travel into London, are the pubs called the 'Jolly Farmer' replaced by the 'Jolly Gardener '?

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 06:52 AM

About the point that the Red Lion is replaced by the Yellow Line.

I've always liked that name "The Gate Hangs Well"- which is apparently a reference to turnpike toll gates. The one at Chapel-en-le-Frith still has the little jingle outside:

This gate hangs well
And hinders none.
Come in, refresh,
And travel on.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 06:54 AM

The "Queens Heid" in Burley in Wharfedale - not an unusual name but a damned good pub nevertheless.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 09:15 AM

Well a relative of a relative (if you see what I mean) used to live between two pubs in Knighton Wales) - one is still there.

"The Lion" and "the Lamb" (probably "& Flag")

so his friends called him the Peacemaker.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST,Martyn
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 03:26 PM

Re the "Hark To Mopsey" in Normanton. When I was a kid the pub sign didn't show a hunt, but we were told that in years gone by there had been a fire at the pub and the Landlords dog Mopsey had raised the alarm and woken everyone up. The landlord then renamed the Pub.

It's a nice story but I suspect it's a fairytale.

Martyn

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM

A few of my favorites, from my youth:

Mickey & Vinnie's Dew Drop Inn
Lift a Latch
Cus from Ho (short for 'cousins from Hoboken')
Tavern at the Inn (the owner bought two generic neon signs)

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 06:54 PM

Geoff Higginbottom tells a canny story aboot a toon in Cheshire (aah think) with two pubs - The Red Lion and The Golden Lion

A third pub wez built as the toon grew and was caalled The Pavillion but everyone referred to it as The Pavil Lion

Aah aalwez thowt a great name for a pub wad be 'The Frog & Nightgown' or 'The Ghost & Gumboil'

Divvent ask uz why - It's just summat me marra and me used te think ab oot when we wez kids

Gerramonsgstit Man!

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 07:37 PM

One of the great sessions pubs (most nights of the week) in Sheffield is called Fagan's after a long-standing landlord Joe Fagan of whom there are many legendary stories.

Go in and ask Tom the current landlord to tell you some of them.

Joe was a Lancaster bomber pilot and used to tell how not only was he blown out of the sky and had to parachute down, he caught a fellow airman on his way down without a parachute. Not only that but he smoked a Woodbine on his way to earth.

When asked how he lit the Woodbine, since he was holding his fellow airman, Joe answered "flak".

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 08:17 PM

*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 09:48 AM

Not funny but really rare - Brown Lion (Pleck, Walsall)
Rose & Lion Bromyard (seesions every Sun)
and just round the corner from me the Spa Inn which I often see as the Spain (you can't concentrate on pub names every time you drive).

I used to publish fictitiuos name/Location/pub signs combinations in Folkwrite eg "the Long and Winding Road" - Utrecht, "the Full Platter" - Chew Magna, "Prince of Wales" - Greene King etc I have hundreds of varying hilarity

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: bubblyrat
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 05:12 PM

Some pubs I have known---"The Trip to Jerusalem," Nottingham--"The Goat and Tricycle," Bournemouth--"The Royal Arms",Gosport,known to generations of sailors as "The C**T and Drums" .The Royal British Legion is always "The Leg-Iron" in naval parlance. I did find a pub once called "The Old Woman who Lived in a Shoe"--might have been in the West Country: can"t remember !! "The Donkey House " in Windsor is now a poseur"s restaurant. With regard to an earlier posting--You can"t say,or play the tune from,Captain Pugwash down under ---Pugwash means Blow-Job !!

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 05:25 PM

Heard on the radio recently that a lot of English pubs are called the Marquess of Granby (I think it was), because the said marquess, as an officer, saw old soldiers falling into poverty without a pension. So, being a rich guy, he started buying pubs for his old soldiers, and of course they were all named after him - and many were successful.

Here's a toast to the Marquess of Granby!

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 02:04 AM

"You can't say, or play the tune from Captain Pugwash down under"

Pity nobody told that to ABC TV when they had it on years ago...

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 06:34 AM

Just remembered an unusual pub name from my youth - near Southam (I think), in the West Midlands: The Blue Lias - supposedly named so because the bones of a prehistoric animal from the species with that name was discovered in the grounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 06:35 AM

The famous old pub Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem in Nottingham will probably have its sign replaced by a Greene King logo, if recent events elsewhere are anything to go by (the Hardy and Hanson brewery was taken over by GK and closed; and GK have aroused ire in many localities for replacing the old pictorial pub signs with their logo).

:-(((((((

(Very p***ed off at this state of affairs)

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 06:37 AM

Correction: The Blue Lias is named after a kind of limestone which is abundant in the area, and has a dinosaur as its pub sign because dinosaur bones were found in the limestone some years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:38 AM

Scrump, thats blooy shameful indeed! Ive been in the Trip to Jerusalem only 3 or 4 times down the years, but I LOVE that pub! How long has it had the name do you know? (I could do a search for that, I suppose)

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:29 AM

The Olde Trip is almost certainly one of the oldest pubs in England (there are many claimants to the 'oldest pub' title, but it's difficult to prove absolutely). It claims to be over 800 years old. I believe it was named because it was where the crusaders drank before leaving England.

I assume even GK wouldn't presume to rename this particular pub. As for the sign, I don't know - it's happened in many other places. The old pictorial pub signs are regarded by many as part of the local heritage (even though many of the signs have been repainted, sometimes by different artists, many times over the years). GK has been removing these signs and replacing them with a sign just showing the GK logo (as far as I know, they haven't actually renamed the pubs though). In one village (I forget where, for the moment) the villagers were up in arms and GK were forced to restore the old sign - so there's hope! I've seen plenty of GK pubs where the 'logo' sign has replaced the old one, though, so I guess GK are aiming to do this everywhere (there doesn't seem to be a 'campaign for real pub signs', unfortunately).

I used to like the Olde Trip too, but I wouldn't now, having seen the list of ales on their website (GK IPA and Abbot, 'Hardy & Hanson' mild, 'Morland' Old Speckled Hen - the new, significantly weaker version, of course - and 'Ruddles' County). What have these apparently different ales got in common? They're all made at the Greene King brewery in Suffolk, that's what :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:09 AM

When I moved to Suffolk in 1969 all Greene King pubs had identical signs, with the Greene King logo on the sign, and only the pub name differing according to location.

Sometime in the 70s they decided to replace these with pictorial signs, but now they seem to be going back to their old, traditional signs.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:14 AM

Very good, Snuffy :-)

Except they have changed their corporate logo at least twice since the 1970s, and the new signs bear their latest logo, not the 'traditional' 1970s one.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: HuwG
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:56 AM

Greene King, and other pub chains ("Pubcos") have recently come under fire for being even more insensitive to customers' tastes and local feelings than the brewery chains they replaced.

Some years ago, brewery chains who owned large numbers of "tied" houses were taken to task by the Monopolies and Mergers Commission as restricting competition in the trade. Unfortunately, the pubs they disposed of were snapped up not by sitting tenants or landlords, but by the pub management chains.

The pub management companies have come under fire for allowing pubs in Stockport and elsewhere to degenerate into derelict eyesores since no landlord could afford to take on the tenancy on the terms offered. As a result, the town council has had to compulsorily purchase the sites. The management company has suffered no penalties for allowing the sites to decay to this point.

And yes, GK and others (Wetherspoons) have fallen prey to the megalomaniac company desire to stamp their own logo all over the place. Why the McDonalds and other such tin god empires feel the need to spray their urine all over the walls of every town in which they have a foothold (and serve universally mediocre wee and force landlords to jack up prices) baffles me.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 11:35 AM

The "Beer Orders" which forced breweries to allow their managers or tenants to sell a guest beer from another brewery, and restricted the number of pubs that could be owned by a single brewery, were rescinded a few years ago. But when they were introduced, the large breweries at the time simply did deals with one another, where one would swap their brewing operation for the other's pubs, so instead of two big breweries each owning large numbers of pubs, there was one mega brewery company and another mega pub chain.

Greene King is rapidly becoming as bad as the original large pub-owning breweries were in the 1970s, taking over other breweries and closing them down. They are not the only ones - Marston's (formerly Wolverhampton & Dudley) and Fullers seem to be following their example.

Quite how sending large tankers and truckloads of beer all over the country, instead of brewing it locally, helps the environment I've yet to discover. Maybe there should be a mileage tax on beer.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:24 PM

Then there's the Cat and Custard Pot at Hawkinge nr. Folkestone. This served the pilots at the nearby RAF airfield during WWII - and the pilots were never given credit for sadly obvious reason!! I think this pub also has an old wooden beam that customers have forced pennies into over the years, and some of the pennies date back a couple of centuries. Haven't been there for a while so it's probably now called Greene King and the beams are plastic.


Arnie

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:57 AM

I asked this on the thread about Pub signs, but it more properly belongs here...

Isn't there (or its maybe was...) a pub somewhere in UK actually called 'The Temporary Sign'?

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST,jimlad
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:10 AM

I dont know about 'The Temporary Sign' but near here ( Gods Country) there is a pub called
Letters Inn, whilst nother pub is called 'Bobs Smithy' because a local Blacksmith spent so much time propping the bar up there it was decided to rename it in his honour.

We have a pub called 'The Griffin' whose nickname is " The War Office' because of the number of battles that take place therein and for the same reason 'The Grapes' became 'The Blood Tub'

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 01:50 PM

God's Country, Jimlad? Nah, you only live next door dont you?...wrong side o't'Pennines?

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GRex
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 02:09 PM

The "South Western Arms" in Southampton once changed it's name to "Nellie's Nob" with a picture of Nell Gwyn, a very buxom wench with a very low-cut dress. The name was changed back after numerous complaints by neighbours.

Also in Southampton the "Honest Lawyer" is close to the "Bent Brief"

Happy supping.
                   GRex

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST,jimlad
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 02:34 PM

Paul from Hull you must be a rare sort of feller,not many folk admit to cummin from theer
As the old saying goes

"From Hull,Hell and Halifax may the Lord preserve us."

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 03:22 PM

Well, Jim, we dont like to gloat...*G*

Hmmm, actually, yes we do!

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Arnie
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:13 PM

And speaking as someone from Halifax, I agree with Paul from Hull - now then, any 'Catters from that other place???

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST,jimlad
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:51 PM

Hi Arnie

You must have heard this one............

Yorkshire born,Yorkshire bred.
Strong in't arm,weak in't yed

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:32 AM

Isn't there (or its maybe was...) a pub somewhere in UK actually called 'The Temporary Sign'?

Not sure whether this question was tongue in cheek or not, but sometimes if a pub is having their 'swinging' picture sign repainted by a sign artists, they put up a temporary replacement with the words "Temporary Sign" on it. So I assume it was a joke, where someone misunderstood and thought the pub was actually called that (instead of its real name, e.g. "The Red Lion" or whatever).

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:35 AM

Yorkshire born,Yorkshire bred.
Strong in't arm,weak in't yed

I've heard this from many different counties, including Hampshire and Devon (except instead of "weak in t'yed" they would have "weak in the 'ead'", etc.)

No idea where it originated though. It's probably too old to be sure where it was first used.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:41 PM

Gloucestershire

".... & thick in the 'ead"

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:49 PM

I heard today that the Dove in Sidmouth is an ex-Dove, indeed a deceased Dove. It was for a while an Irish theme pub called Finns, before reverting to the Dove, but has been converted into flats so isn't even a pub any more.

There was a time when so many members of the Herga Folk Club went to Sidmouth festival that we had the club AGM in the public bar of the Dove on the Monday.

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Scrump
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:18 AM

There's an old pub in Newcastle upon Tyne called the Crown Posada, which I've always wondered about. Next time I go there I suppose I could ask (it has good beer btw).

I think Posada sounds vaguely Spanish (or Latin?). It just seems an unusual name and I assume there's some historical reason. It's not far from the Quay so maybe it was used by Spanish sailors or something?

Does anyone know?

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST,jimlad
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 10:01 AM

Scrump

Geordies are just Scotchmen with their brains kicked out. They speak a strange tongue that is
unknown/understood anywhere else on planet Earth.

Your question "Does anyone know/" translates as "Duz any yan knaa" which may be understood by the literate 22% of Geordies. This may get you a (polite I hope) answer

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:05 PM

Scrump, 'posada' is Spanish for 'inn'. You could still go and ask them why though.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: terrier
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:08 PM

A pub in Warrington (Cheshire,UK),I can't remember it's original name now, was renamed 'The Cemetery'(it is opposite a cemetery). The locals complained about the name so much that it was re-re-named 'The Good Companions'!!!!!! A quiet lot in there ;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 04:45 AM

in the dead centre - everyone dying to go there.


Just to get them over with

d8^)

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: GUEST,jimlad
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:36 PM

Did they serve Spirits?.

Feel free to groan.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 04:37 PM

When I travel in the UK I like to look for interesting pub names, such as, The Black Lion, The Rose & Crown. So much more class than our pubs.
The most interesting one we have here is probably Three Dollar Dewys.
Years ago it was a whore house, and the options were, 1.One dollar lookie, 2. Two dollar feelie and 3. Three dollar Dewy.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Alec
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 05:02 PM

The Crown Posada is on the list of architecturally important Pubs
on account of its magnificent stained glass window & beautiful wood panelling. The posada bit comes from Newcastle being a port. Spanish being a Major trading language (hence also the Bodega about a Mile further North West.)
As for what language jimlad was attempting to replicate, any one got any ideas?

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: HuwG
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 08:52 PM

Many years ago, on long car journeys, my parents and brother and I played a game of pub names. One point was scored for each leg as part of a pub's name spotted by any contestant.

For example, the "Red Lion" would be four legs. (The rules committee i.e. my dad, ruled that how the lion was depicted was immaterial. In many cases the red lion would be depicted heraldically as "rampant" i.e rearing up on its hind legs, before you get the wrong idea, but it was ruled that the leg didn't actually have to be touching the ground to count.)

A reference to a heraldic badge e.g. the "Mason's Arms", was assumed to be singular, so the "Mason's Arms" would count as two legs. Likewise, the "Somerset Arms" would be assumed to refer to one holder of the title Earl of Somerset, and would also count as two legs.

A reference to a group too loosely named to be accurately counted e.g. the "Rescuers", was assumed to be two rescuers and counted four legs. (Assuming Lassie to be one of the rescuers was not allowed). A group too large to be counted e.g. the "Durham Light Infantry" was awarded an arbitrary 100 legs. The same did not apply to e.g. the "Dreadnought", as it was the ship which was named rather than its crew.

The game obviously had long boring spells during journeys which involved stretches of motorway, but could be fast and furious when passing through town centres. It led to some imaginative discussions as to the origins of some names. I don't recall that we saw quite such a name as "Hark to Towler". I assume in that case that we would eventually guess correctly that Towler was a foxhound and therefore counted four legs.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 11:10 AM

Many 'catters will know the wonderful 'Eel's Foot', in Eastbridge, Suffolk ('anything goes' sessions every Thursday evening - no appointment necessary, no disappointment possible). Another piece of transplanted heaven was the 'King's Arms' at Laxfield, where the traditional Tuesday afternoon/evening/night sessions were legendary, but a disastrous change of landlord meant a move of venue to Stradbroke. Luckily, none of them GK, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Pub Names
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 12:03 PM

100 !!