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'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'????
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: bubblyrat Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:46 PM A fiddle is , in nautical parlance, a rim or lip on a shelf, or a rail on top of a cooker, placed there in order to prevent items from falling off due to the roll of the ship or vessel.I have not encountered any such descriptions relating to the word "violin", although there are several pubs in numerous naval ports that could be so described,viz. the Royal Arms in Gosport. |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: fiddler Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:15 PM You're like the rest of us then. Which bit of OZ? I've been to sydney and Adelaide and surrounds, actually played for a bush dance in Manum once. I was band and caller till about 2am. It was Christmas and very hot (over 30 when we stopped). Andy |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,ozchick Date: 05 Feb 07 - 03:37 PM hmm.... I couldn't log on to mudcat at all yesterday... don't know what was going on? I had a bit of a search on the internet and found that article that Donald suggested yesterday - it is a good read. I'm finding this all very interesting. Being new to the 'Folk World' - I never realised there were so many different styles and opinions. When I took up 'fiddle' it was because it sounded like more fun than classical and it seemed to be less restrictive when it came to technique. I can now hear the differences between some of the different styles - Irish, Scottish, etc (mainly the more obvious ones) and I think there's probably a variety of 'Aussie Bush Style' too. Since my teacher at the moment is a Jazz player, and my initial teacher was a Bluegrass and Irish player, I think my style is now one all of its own!! |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Scrump Date: 05 Feb 07 - 11:00 AM This came up in another thread not long ago. 'Fiddle' is simply slang for a member of the violin family, including violin, viola, cello and double bass. A double bass was sometimes called a 'bass fiddle', although you don't often hear the term used today. 'Fiddle' on its own normally refers to a violin. The verb 'to fiddle' means to play a fiddle. I know classical violinists who refer to their 'fiddles', although I suspect this may be frowned upon by certain sections of the classical music world. So on that basis, I don't think there is a difference. |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,Donald Date: 05 Feb 07 - 09:30 AM This is as definitive an answer as you are likely to find: How does fiddling differ from classical music? |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Sorcha Date: 04 Feb 07 - 05:53 PM At least she didn't say it isn't music. That is what my teacher said when I was 18 and discovered it. |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: fiddler Date: 04 Feb 07 - 05:42 PM ozchick, yup you asked the question - cool, now you've slept on it Cool, fine to ask, loadsa folk are not too open minded on this one, thats why I tend to get A BIT TWITCHY. Sorch, good comments girl. hugs to all and keep sawing the strings everyone - one way or another. At least I didn't get in to the differences between old time, bluegras, Irish, English, Scottish Cape breton...... The liSt goes on and on - Is ther an OZ style - AND FROM WHICH STATE? Andy |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Sorcha Date: 04 Feb 07 - 05:28 PM Well, truth be told, if you will use some of the classical techniques, you will be able to have a larger repetoire and do more with fiddle music. YES, there is a difference. It only took me 15 years or so to stop sounding like a vionlinst masquerading as a fiddler. |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,ozchick Date: 04 Feb 07 - 05:23 PM Morning!! It seems there IS a difference between fiddle and violin. Thanks fiddler, for your comments - I'm not giving up.... it's a bit late to do that now! Plus I love it, so why would I? I'm very open to instruction and constructive criticism. I'm not at all saying that I'm as good as I'll ever be (I still attend weekly lessons) I was simply asking the question - any differences? because I was unsure myself. I do have a good solid base in music theory thanks to my classical guitar (and piano) training which is why I've managed to pick up this instrument relatively quickly. When I started playing fiddle at the age of 25, the above lady told me it was ridiculous for me to start at any age other than 6 and I would have no hope of playing well. She doesn't say that now, in fact she enjoys the 'Music' that is made - it's just the technique that she has a problem with. Maybe It's not really a problem at all now that I've had a sleep on it! :) |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: HiHo_Silver Date: 04 Feb 07 - 02:59 PM For what it's worth: My personal take on the subject is that all different styles of music are different and require different touches. Jazz, folk, country etc. Although there is nothing like a good solid base of music theory you must learn the style of the music you are playing. In my area we play Down East style fiddle which will sound differently than say true scottish fiddeling or southern fiddeling, although playing the same tune, for example. I believe this results from learning without a good solid background of music and the instrument. Many times incorrect although workable theory. That being said, I have heard excellent musicians who could play both classical and folk or fiddle equally well. Hope you hear from Sorcha on this one. Cheers: Jim |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,Jim Date: 04 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM What's the difference between a fiddle and a violin? A fiddlers answer:"A fiddle is fun to listen to." A violinist's answer:"Technique" |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST Date: 04 Feb 07 - 02:21 PM a Violin Sings and aFiddle dances |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: fiddler Date: 04 Feb 07 - 02:08 PM How many times have I heard this discussion or argument! The folkies tend to be as bigoted as the Classical camp (and parts of this thread prove that) in the end so both can be as bad as each other. There is room to learn for both Sides! I was taught classically but always resisted orchestra - thats not what I wanted to do. Then I'm not the best folk fiddler either. Listen to Nigel Kennedy play Chardas - then tell me the difference. There are some things you can do with classical hold, poise methods that you can't with folkie methods and - vice a versa - doesn't mean one is right or wrong just one might not need what the other needs. Be open minded, if she is bothering to talk to you about it take it as a complement, she thinks your playing is worth it, but perhaps she can help you make it better. Try and learn from her years of experience working in her field and see if you can learn anything from her. If you can't learn anything then you really should give up! Sorry to sound harsh this is a really old chestnut that sadly will never be put away! MUtual respect and the ability to learn fomr each other, that cna be one way traffic though - so what learn none of us ever reach perfection. Andy |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Rasener Date: 04 Feb 07 - 01:40 PM >>A lot of 'good' classical musicians have trouble with anything outside their own field << hey Leadfingers, much the same as folk traddies LOL :-) I personally couldn't care less about whether it is a violin or fiddle so long as the musician is very good. A very good musician will make the violin/fiddle sound so beautiful and adds something special to the tune or song. |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton Date: 04 Feb 07 - 01:34 PM I have read that "fiddle" is an older word. Something like "fidel" or faithful. "Violin" seems to have come from the viols in early music. There is a difference. Observing great fiddlers, many do things that classical violinists would eschew. Holding the bow away from the frog, sticking the elbow out on the bowed arm, different bow holds, and the phrasing and vibrato (if used) are different. Mark O'Connor used to put his thumb under the frog area rather than inside..a technique learned from Benny Thomasson. (Texas fiddle). Ti Jean Carignan was a phenomenal fiddler from French Canada. Many classical violinists would see him and be amazed that he could do what he did (they couldn't) "all wrong". The analogy above: blues guitar players and classical guitar players. Oranges and apples. The cross-over seems difficult. Stylistic approach is different and one not conducive to success in the other. The European bow holds almost preclude getting a "lilt" to Irish fiddling or the drive of US rural styles. Watching Mairead Nesbitt with the Celtic Women, it seems that she holds the bow up from the frog, sticks her bowing arm out at the elbow and gets a beautiful sound that lilts. She may have had classical training but she has a fiddler's approach. Frank Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Wincing Devil Date: 04 Feb 07 - 01:01 PM Simple: A fiddle is played by a fiddler, and a violin is played by a violinist.
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: BanjoRay Date: 04 Feb 07 - 12:15 PM The classic example was when Yehudi Menuhin played with Stephane Grapelli. Stephane had to write everything out for Yehudi for it to sound as if they were both improvising, and he sounded much stiffer than Stephane. In classical style you satisfy the conductor's wishes. In folk style you satisfy your own, within the limits of the tradition. Ray |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Jim I Date: 04 Feb 07 - 11:56 AM I once saw a TV programme with Yehudi Menuhin playing with "The 40 Shetland Fiddlers". When they played together the effect was very trad/Shetlandy but when Yehudi played a solo it was very classical i.e. I found there was a certain rigidity about his playing of a jig (or whatever). I think there is a certain solemnity about playing the 'violin' which is much less obvious in fiddle playing, even in slow airs. About 35 years ago I played in a folk group with a very good trad whistle player and a classically trained violinist (I think he was from the SNO) and we had the same problem. It was always "lighten up Norrie!" Another problem with him was he could not adjust to playing by ear! Can you imagine how hard it was in about 1967 to get sheet music for "The Wild Rover" etc? |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,Guest, Tim Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:57 AM Fiddle is the English word for the instrument, violin is the French word for the instrument. If Itsahk Perlman can call his million dollar plus Stradivari instrument a fiddle then us hillbillies don't have to call our instruments violins. When in Rome, Italy, speak as the Romans do, when in Rome, GA, speak like Americans do. |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,ozchick Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:46 AM thanks guys..... now i can get some sleep. zzzzzzzzzz |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:33 AM If the music is there, forget about "the look". They should be happy to have your talent in church--and most probably are. |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Leadfingers Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:24 AM A lot of 'good' classical musicians have trouble with anything outside their own field ! The musicians who can 'fit' into a variety of styles with any degree of competence are a bit few and far between ! |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: treewind Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:23 AM You can't really define the difference because there are so many different types of "classical" playing and so many different types of "folk" playing. There's some crossover in the early music world, and jazz violin is in a category of its own, as is the style in which Indian music is played on the violin. BTW orchestral musicians talk about violins as fiddles, but that's definitely slang and derogatory, though never taken seriously as an insult. Anahata |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,ozchick Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:17 AM Thanks Alec - that's what I wanted to hear!! It is not solo, but playing with about 10 other musicians... piano, guitars, woodwind, drums etc. More vibrato, I should hold the bow differently , I should hold my violin differently.... pretty much everything about the look of how I'm playing. But my pitch is spot on, phrasing... everything's there. Maybe you're right about her own frustrations... Katlaughing, the link didn't work.... thanks tho! |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: johnadams Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:15 AM Ozchick wrote: Recently I have been asked to play my violin at church, which is fine... but I have had one older lady (who is a very good classical violinist, but cannot play anymore due to some problems with her hands) take me to task on my technique. I tried explaining that I've learnt from a traditional fiddler and she basically told me that there's no difference in technique and I'm just being lazy. I'm trying to not be offended by this statement..... I'm sure there is quite a substantial difference - am I right? Yes you are right and she is most definitely and typically blinkered in her view. I can recommend an essay by my esteemed colleague Paul Roberts on my Village Music Project web site to throw some light on the issue. Article by Paul Roberts Johnny A |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:04 AM I would think that if you play musically--with phrasing and emotion as called for in the music--and of course on pitch--she should be happy. Maybe she's just unconsciously expressing her frustration that she can't play anymore herself. What are her specific gripes? Does she want more vibrato, for instance?--certainly found more in classical than in folk. I gather this is a solo? |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: katlaughing Date: 04 Feb 07 - 09:58 AM <More on the subject |
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Subject: RE: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: Alec Date: 04 Feb 07 - 09:55 AM YES! I have always tended to the view that classical orchestras have Violinists & Folk bands have Fiddlers.Just please don't ask me to define the difference. :-) |
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Subject: 'Fiddle' vs 'Violin'???? From: GUEST,ozchick Date: 04 Feb 07 - 09:50 AM I have been playing the fiddle for quite a few years now - after learning classical guitar for all my life, I wanted to get away from the rigidity of the 'Classical' technique and found myself a traditional fiddle player to learn from. I took to playing the fiddle very quickly and LOVE it! Recently I have been asked to play my violin at church, which is fine... but I have had one older lady (who is a very good classical violinist, but cannot play anymore due to some problems with her hands) take me to task on my technique. I tried explaining that I've learnt from a traditional fiddler and she basically told me that there's no difference in technique and I'm just being lazy. I'm trying to not be offended by this statement..... I'm sure there is quite a substantial difference - am I right? please say yes........;) |
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