BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it

Subject: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:19 PM

A member on the Help forum wanted a clearly-titled thread to do with conspiracy theories so that he/she doesn't open them by mistake. Here is the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: pdq
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:28 PM

That makes opening this 'conspiracy thread' a conspiracy!

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:32 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:40 PM

Obviously, this is a conspiracy between Canada. Obviously, Albertan troops will be marching across the Idaho border any day now and nothing much between them and the Grand Canyon except Idaho and Utah*!

Yes, the Idaho Legion will fight these aggressors, but with more and more Canadian beer available here effective resistance is problematic at best! The availibility of Moosehead and Labatt's and the rest is just another conspiracy, one to cripple the Legion!











*Of course, this includes the Naval base up in Northern Idaho, Mountain Home AFB, Gower Field, Hill AFB, Tooele Army Depot, and a slew of combat-experienced NG and Reserve outfits, but NOBODY can outfight, outdrink, outcuss, outdance, outlove, or outlie the Idaho Legion!

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST,:::
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:55 PM

Coeur d'Alene, Idaho will be one hot potatoe of a Naval Base to circumnavagate. I think they got the Kanuks whipped there.

Sincerely,
:::

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: bobad
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:57 PM

Is that you Dan?

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:14 PM

Gotcha! Okay, aside from the looming Canadian invasion of Idaho, the even more looming Liechtensteinian invasion of the world (in stages), the government coverup of 911, the government coverup of contact with extraterrestrials, the real story on who killed JFK, RFK, and Martin Luther King, and the real story on why we invaded Aghanistan and Kuwait, and the real story on Iran.....

Whaddya got?

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: RangerSteve
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:46 PM

Conspiray Theory: There is really no such person as Little Hawk. He is actually a committee of people who think up ideas for threads on Mudcat that are intended to keep us entertained and thereby too busy to notice when Canada invades the U.S., after which Great Britain and Australia will also be invaded. They've sent us actors and hockey players, and now their donut shops are in Maine. This is a very slow invasion, but we're too complacent to even notice that.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: bobad
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:06 PM

"There is really no such person as Little Hawk"

Aliens walk among us.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:20 PM

Don't pay any attention to those wild theories emanating from RangerSteve. He is a card-carrying agent of the State Department's Disinformation Bureau of False Rumors and Nasty Accusations (DBFRNA). Nothing he says is true. He is in the pay of Kissinger and Cheney.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST, conspiracy arrow
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:40 PM

I've tried to direct GUEST,clover, who is jousting with Bill D., here, but my linkless effort has been unsuccessful.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:48 PM

Actually, there is no conspiracy. None. Nope. Doesn't exist. Nada. Zip. Zero. I promise you that there is no conspiracy, and all others agree. So forget about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:08 AM

Curiouser and curiouser.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:11 AM

Both this and the above link are YOUTUBE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxFRigYD3s&mode=related&search= Early reports of Bldg 7 collapse.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:19 AM

Odds and Sods.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:14 AM

Good on you, brother. But they don't want to know. Some smartass will no doubt post a link to the twilight zone music any time now. Another will mention tinfoil hats. Sheep do not want to be disturbed while they're grazing.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:49 AM

"Actually, there is no conspiracy"


Ooooo, I like that - can I join in your conspiracy (that there IS no conspiracy!) Rapaire?

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Alec
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 05:15 AM

Surely contributions to this thread ought to be posted in Illuminati TTF? (available from Da Font.com,amongst others)
JFK was killed by a lone gunman called Lee Harvey Oswald, but don't tell anyone, it's supposed to be a secret.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 05:26 AM

There ya go:http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/
-

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST,Lets Beavenue
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 06:03 AM

Current UK discussion about the lies being fed and swallowed about 9/11.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: 3refs
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 07:50 AM

"Conspiray Theory: There is really no such person as Little Hawk. He is actually a committee of people who think up ideas for threads on Mudcat that are intended to keep us entertained and thereby too busy to notice when Canada invades the U.S., after which Great Britain and Australia will also be invaded. They've sent us actors and hockey players, and now their donut shops are in Maine. This is a very slow invasion, but we're too complacent to even notice that."

"Don't pay any attention to those wild theories emanating from RangerSteve. He is a card-carrying agent of the State Department's Disinformation Bureau of False Rumors and Nasty Accusations (DBFRNA). Nothing he says is true. He is in the pay of Kissinger and Cheney."

I always figured there was something about Little Hawk. Canada's answer to the Bohemian Grove.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:16 AM

I clicked on to Peace"s "Curiouser & Curiouser" posting, and watched the "conspiracy " video. I have to say that I can give no credence to a bunch of people who can"t even spell relatively simple words, and who don"t know how to use an apostrophe where the necessity of its use is clearly obvious. The lesson is clear----If you want convince people of your sincerity,then use proper,grammatical English, or don"t bother !!

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: RangerSteve
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:58 AM

As any conspiracy theorist will tell you, when someone denies something, it's because they have something to hide. LH's denial of my accusation, accompanied by accusations against me are proof that I was right. None of this, of course, applies to me, because I said so.

Actually, I got my first disability check from the government a few weeks ago, retroactive to last November. It should have been only to December, so maybe the extra month was a payment from Cheney and Kissinger added on to disguise it. I may be in their pay without knowing it. I'll check, and if that's the case, you can be sure I'll return the extra money.

Come to think of it, maybe that extra money was from Little Hawk, (or, rather, the committee hiding behind the name "Little Hawk"), and they're trying to set me up. Forget it, "LH", whoever you are. I'm keeping the money, but I son't be your dupe.

Ranger Steve, acting entirely on his own.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:12 AM

Yeah, sure, "acting entirely on his own." Right. These days nobody is capable of acting entirely on his or her own, even if they could act entirely on their own if they wanted to, which they don't or can't (because of the fluoride in the water and the chemicals that are constantly being sprayed into the sky to kill the flu virii brought here by comets).

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM

Peace, thanks for the links. All it does is prove that the storytellers are hypocrits. If you ever spent time in a newsroom you would realize how absurd these new theories are. These people are grasping at fluff because they can't find any evidence to back up their fanciful claims. The eyewitnessed was planted? The filmaker asks - "Who talks like that?"   Well, they do! They question how an "expert" could have known how the building collapsed so quickly and ignore the reason why the person was a guest - he knew building construction and he clearly gave a "theory" as to what occured.

I sincerely doubt these filmmakers did any fact checking - interviewing the reporter, camera crew or witness - and simply relied on making up crap as if it were fact. That is bullshit journalism and we take shots at Fox News and other organizations for trying to do that. Shame on the filmmaker who resorts to the same tactic. Hypocrite.

For a "story" to be planted in the way these filmakers are suggesting would require a conspiracy of dozens of people in the organization, and you can be sure there is always a whistleblower who would love to uncover such a plot.

IF such a story were planted, do you really think they would make such an obvious blunder as to showing the building they are reporting demolished?   Chalk that one up to misinformation - which, if you choose to remember, was rampant that day. There were news reports of 15 planes hijacked, explosions all over DC, manhole covers being blown off, shots fired, etc. The sad part of journalism that day was that nothing was being checked and everything was being fed to the public. WTC7 was discussed as being in danger of imminent collapse most of that day - it was not a surprise when it fell.

It is easy to say that people like myself do not buy these conspiracy theories and follow the official party line - but that is a cop out. In reality, the conspiracy theory followers are simply frustrated that people cannot buy their convulted and fantasy filled theories without a shred of evidence. Giving circumstantial ramblings about what a witness saw or did not see serves no purpose. It is just guessing.

It would be easy to discard reality and accept these conspiracy theories as the truth.    The only conspiracy that I feel exists is that the adminstration planted many of these ideas themselves, throwing off public away from the real story - why were we so inept that we did not heed the warnings and let this happen?   Our government failed us.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:41 AM

You may or may not be right, Ron, but Silversteins remark is a tough one for people to handle. "The little snippet where he says, "pull the building [bldg 7]."

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:46 AM

It is hard to handle because people do not want to accept it for what it was. "Pull" the building sounds like a man who just gave up any hope of saving the building. We are all human and say the wrong thing sometimes - making a statement that could be interpreted the wrong way. IF this man truly had a plot in place, I think he would have been very careful about what he was saying. As it came out, I think we just saw a human being talking with the emotion of the moment.

IF this were a plot, the evidence would be obvious. It is not. IF this were a plot, it would require a large group of people to pull it off.   SOMEONE would talk or a smoking gun would be found. Nothing that I've read or seen from these theorists make any sense or have any credible weight behind it. It seems that they are just selling books and DVD's.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:51 AM

OK. So you don't want this thread. Alright with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:07 AM

I never said I do not want this thread. IF someone can come up with convincing evidence, I will be more than happy to say I was wrong.

Theorists should keep digging, but they should not resort to tactics that are hypocritical. To use hyperbole and scare tactics is the domain of the spin doctors. These conspirists are preying on people who need an easy answer and love the smell of a good mystery. This is the stuff of great fiction, and if they can hang on to the idea that it might be real - then it opens up doors for all the other fantasies.   That is what makes science fiction so popular.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:52 AM

Another page which might be interesting

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:57 AM

Even better...with pictures

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:01 AM

well, gee, if you have EXTRA time, skim thru this It might be the best yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:09 AM

...and if you bothered to read ALL the way to the bottom of that one, you'd find a link to the BBC explanation of what was involved in that 'early' report!

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:30 PM

Some people are saying that Hedge funds owned by billionaires are expempt from FTC guidlines.

SOme people say that defense contractors and the military actually collude on weapon projects.

Some people say the media may not be fair and balance.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:06 PM

No evidence is ever convincing to people who don't want to be convinced. ;-) I've noticed that time and again in my life. People are subjective creatures with very shaky egos to defend, big mouths, and little regard for objectivity or fairness. Their opinions usually aren't worth a flyspeck. Their knowledge of the subject being discussed is generally pitiful, and their pretensions are grandiose.

Yes, RangerSteve, I do have something to hide, but it's not what you think. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:20 PM

"No evidence is ever convincing to people who don't want to be convinced. ;-) "

What a copout. You try to belittle people who read the evidence and come to a conclusion that is different than yours. Shame on you. You resort to shoddy tactics when you can't prove your point.

Failure to convince people does not entitle you to a sense of superiority.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: jeffp
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:32 PM

He could be talking about himself, Ron.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:36 PM

Interesting that any mention of conspiracy has people slagging each other within ten posts. Be nice. This ain't the corner bar. Use some fuckin' manners.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:49 PM

"If we reported the building had collapsed before it had done so, it would have been an error - no more than that." from the bbc link.

How in the world do you claim that a building has collapsed when, in fact, it hasn't? Why would anyone even think that it was going to collapse? Why that building, specifically?

It still makes no sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:55 PM

They reported it because everyone knew it was in danger of collapse - it was a matter of time.

I'm amazed - everyone always complains that television news screws up and gets the facts wrong. Then when an obvious error is discovered, people are in disbelief that they could make a mistake. It still makes no sense to me.

Spend 15 minutes in a newsroom and you would be amazed at how easy it is to screw something up.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: RangerSteve
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 05:47 PM

LH - I'm not thinking about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 06:14 PM

The BBC news folks were getting (in their own words) "very, very sketchy" reports...at some point they heard 'something' about 'collapse' of WTC7, which was actually only predicting collapse, and misunderstood. They made a natural mistake. The woman reporter didn't have a map....she was just juggling little bits of information. There was nothing sinister about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST,9q4ruj f j pvu u
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:24 PM

The biggest conspiracy theory out there is that 19 men with boxcutters and failing grades in flight school got NORAD to stand down on 9/11 and then trick-flew jets into 75% of their targets. TRY to make up a more outrageous story than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:53 PM

WELL said.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:10 PM

Maybe I wasn't talking about you, Ron, but just about the human race in general. You have chosen to take it personally. I have noticed that people are set in their ways, okay?, and that includes their basic beliefs. You, however, may be an exception. Not for me to say.

What I am saying is that most people have an absolutely tremendous resistance to new ideas (if those new ideas aren't presented to them by Big Brother on every mainstream news outlet), and every pioneering scientist and radical new thinker in history has been well aware of that. Galileo, for instance...

It works this way: Someone comes up with a radical new idea that is in conflict with the ideas embraced by the ruling establishment of the day. First people great it with skepticism, laughter, and ridicule. Next....if the person with the new idea will not give up and go away, and specially if he begins to change a few people's minds...the laughter and ridicule then turn to insults and threats. Finally, if the society is a primitive enough one, the guy with the new idea is tortured into recanting or he is publicly executed, and everything goes back to "normal" for awhile, and most people are quite happy that that dangerous thinker has been dealt with and shut up.

Do you disagree that this is what has happened to a lot of radical thinkers in history who came out with an unconventional idea?

Now...some of them were wrong...but a good many of them were right, as we now know.

If a German citizen had said openly to other Germans, in 1939, that the Nazis were responsible for the war, that they were planning to murder Jews and other people wholesale and that they had already murdered quite a few people, and that they were betraying the very country they imagined they were serving.....what do you think most Germans would have said about that person? Would they have believed him? Certainly not.

I am saying that elements in the USA administration were probably deeply involved in planning 911 in some way, that they arranged it or helped to arrange it, possibly in concert with genuine Islamic terrorists attackers who may not have even realized they were being used as pawns by the neocons...and that they did it in order to:

1. Have a "Peal Harbor" type incident that would make Americans willing to go to war pre-emptively against countries which had NOT attacked the USA.

2. Invade Afghanistan, which they very much wanted to do anyway, in order to build oil pipelines through there from the Caspian region.

3. Next invade Iraq.

4. Nest invade Iran.

5. Next invade Syria.

6. Plus get rid of 2 white elephant buildings which were losing money and cash in on insurance claims.

7. Plus make a bloody fortune for their best buddies short selling airline stock before the disaster.

None of that pre-emptive war stuff could be done without first providing a massive and very visual provocation that would absolutely infuriate the American public and make them turn a blind eye to their government committing the most blatant large power aggression against small countries since Hitler attacked Poland and Norway and the Low Countries in 1939 and 1940. The provocation was provided.

I don't believe it was done just by a bunch of Muslim terrorists, and I don't believe that the airplanes alone brought those buildings down, and I most of all don't believe that building # 7 came down due to collateral damage. I think it was taken out by demolition charges, as were the others. Look at the way the fell, for God's sake. Have any other modern buildings fallen that way, right into their own footprint, which were NOT brought down by carefully placed demolition charges?

I have plenty of good reason to think so, just like you have plenty of good reason to think not. It's just a question of which aspects of the evidence you want to apply your powers of logic too...and it works this way: People who want a given conclusion sift through evidence, but they do it with an emotional bias...that emotional bias accepts certain evidence as "important" and discounts other evidence as "inconsequential". It interprets according to its bias.

Everyone does that. You do it. I do it. The thing is, though, I initially believed the official version of 911. Why? Well, it was all I had to go on. Naturally I believed it. Why wouldn't I when it was the only info generally available? I later found out a lot of other stuff, and I started not to believe it anymore.

Lack of respect for others' viewpoints goes both ways on this one, Ron.

The government's version of 911 IS a conspiracy theory...and one that I am not too impressed with, to say the least. I think they did it themselves...with a little help from the outside on the part of some Muslim fanatics? Yeah, probably, but they still did it themselves anyway, and for their own gain. Osama Bin Laden was just what the Neocon doctors ordered. He was perfect for their plans. Same deal for Saddam and the Taliban. Now they are joyfully grooming Ahmadinejad for the next official "maniacal bad guy", and praying that he will say something nasty that they can quote again and again on CNN and Fox, and rubbing their hands with glee whenever he does. Now a lot more than 3,000 people have died, and a lot more are on the way. And what for? The neocon agenda. Control the Mideast and Caspian oil. Terrorize any opposition through massive military power. Control the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:52 PM

Hold on, you are way out of line. You get respect when you earn it. You, my friend, have not earned any. Your stance and attacks on those of us who disagree with you comes from the same dark place that you rebel against.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it does not make you correct. If you have serious evidence and data to share, I am open to discussion and willing to change my mind. NOTHING that has been presented by you or anyone else on this website has been compelling enough to make me re-think the obvious.   

No one is denying that radical thoughts change the world. I don't think I could name one positive "conservative" revolution in the history of the world. My role models have been the individuals who put themselves on the line for their cause - so don't lecture me about "radical thinkers".

Your rambling discourse seems to be saying that your indignation about the war justifies believing in conspiracy theories. I might be wrong in that interpretation but I honestly had difficulty following your lines of thought in that last posting.

The war is wrong, and yes they jumped on the opportunity that was handed to them.

Just two points - the buildings were not "white elephants" and I have watched numerous videos of #7. I do not see a comparision to a controlled demoltion as you and others claim. It is not that I don't want to see it - it is just that it differs signficantly from all videos of controlled demolition that I've ever seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:06 PM

Jayzuuuzz H. ..... all the threads here in the Cat are starting to look, read, the same .... again, and again ... the same verbiage, the same rhetoric, the same arguments, the same characters (LH always bringing in the Nazi's into play) .... over, over, and over again.

Hmmmm ... think I'll go dig out that old DC5 45.

Hey guys ... winter is almost over.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:14 PM

Some people say that TV evangelists are in it for the money!?

'If I had a hammer' - if sung by Ted Haggard, written by donuel

If I had a hammer
I'd hammer on the gays and queers
If I had a second chance
all over this land
I'd preach about Satan
I'd preach about gay ay sin
I'd preach about hate between the faithful and the sinners
all all over this land.

If I had an ego
I'd brag about it endlessly
If I had a book to sell
all over this land.
I'd spew out blind faith
I'd spew out God's design
I'd spew out evolution is the devil's institution
all all over this land

If I had an hour show
I'd ask for viewers last dollar
If I were on TV
all over this land
God needs all your rent checks
God needs all your savings
I'd tell them that all they give would come back twice as needed.
all all in the name of God.
-but sign the check to Haggard-
all all over this laaaaaand.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:14 PM

Thank you Don. Well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:21 PM

Yes, thanks Don.

Much better than that DC5 45.

I said ... over, and a over, and a over again....

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:38 AM

You think I'm saying that my indignation about the war justifies my believing in a conspiracy theory, Ron?

Huh? Why single me out for that? We both believe in conspiracy theories. Everyone believes in a conspiracy theory about 911, except the people who actually did it. Yours is the government sanctioned conspiracy theory, the popular one flogged by the media, that says those guys with boxcutters did it all by themselves, mine isn't that conspiracy theory, it's a different one, a more complex one involving more players, not just the guys with boxcutters. I like mine better, because it seems a lot more likely to me. Yeah, sure, it's just my opinion. Naturally.

You want me to retype all the data I've seen about it? Well, sorry, I just don't have time for that. And would it make any difference to the world if I found enough info to convince Ron Olesko of my 911 theory? Nope. It wouldn't make much difference at all. It wouldn't even change your or me in any useful way. We're just 2 people blathering away on an obscure internet forum, because we can't resist not doing so. (People like expressing their opinions...it strengthens their sense of identity. I like it. You like it. We're human, right?)

Here's another amusing thing about human nature, Ron. People will go out of their way to read and investigate any stuff that supports their established opinions strongly...they will waste precious little time on the stuff that doesn't. That stuff they skim over just so they can find something in it to attack. Thus, I do not really expect you to hunt out and enthusiastically absorb stuff that supports my favorite theories of 911. You wouldn't be acting like a normal human being if you did.

Neither do I expect that I will enthusiastically read, re-read, and memorize the material that supports the government position on the matter, because I simply don't believe those guys.

So we have, as usual, an insoluble divide on our hands. I don't know for certain who did it any more than you do. I'm just looking at probabilities, same as anyone else. I assess those probabilities differently than you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:48 AM

"Everyone believes in a conspiracy theory about 911, except the people who actually did it."

LH ... what kind of statement is that ... it reminds me of the famous "over and a over" line from my daughter when she was in grade school .. "I gotta have one cause everyone has got one"

There are many, many people who don't beleive in any conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 ... people who who are so far removed from the "ones who did it"

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:24 AM

"Thus, I do not really expect you to hunt out and enthusiastically absorb stuff that supports my favorite theories of 911."

Don't make foolish assumptions. You would be surprised. I think you have a problem with people who have debunked these conspiracy theories and you cannot get beyond that. You seem to be refusing to accept that people HAVE read on both sides of the issue and came away with a conclusion other than the one you made.

Again, the problem with ALL the conspiracy theories that I have read are lack of supporting evidence.

If I worked at it, I am sure I could come up a list of 100 reasons why Little Hawk was motivated enough to plot out the whole operation. I could come up with lists of theories on how you and your friends went ahead and pulled this off. Would I have a shred of evidence? Absolutely not.   Could I make it as convincing as some of the websites and articles I've read? You bet.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:29 AM

conspiracy theory :

ALL WILL BE FORGIVEN IF WE CAN PUT BIN LADEN'S HEAD ON A STICK.

Cheney's trip to Pakistan was in part to tell Musarev that we are sending Marines into Pakistan to capture bin Laden.

Even if all we get is a look alike corpse we can be sure that the story will break on FOX NEWS>

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:26 AM

6 - How do you define the word "conspiracy"? I define it as a secret plot by 2 or more people to do something.

Every theory about 911, including the government's chosen version of events describes a secret plot by 2 or more people to attack the WTC, the Pentagon, and possibly some other target (the White House?).

Those are conspiracy theories.

It's a common ridiculing tactic in conversation these days to label someone else's theory as "a conspiracy theory", as if that in itself means that someone is a wingnut. Well, my friend, ALL the theories about 911 are conspiracy theories because they are theories about a conspiracy.

And that's why I'm drawing your attention to the nonsense of someone trying to discredit some theory about 911 by calling it a "conspiracy theory". It's manipulative rhetoric, calculated to sway minds, and it's BS. Sort of like calling any criticism of something done by any black person "racism" (no matter what he did...)....or criticism of something any woman did "sexism"...or criticism of anything Israel did "anti-semitism"...or criticism of anything any Native American did "racism".

You follow me? This use of the term "conspiracy theory" to attack people is illegitimate. It's Newspeak, intended to shut up people who are outside the official line. Every theory about 911 is a conspiracy theory, must be a conspiracy theory, because 911 was accomplished BY a conspiracy on the part of some group of people.

A theory only ceases to be a "theory" when it is fully proven to everyone's satisfaction. Until then, it remains a theory.

Ron - I am simply saying that I have neither the time nor the motivation to search out all kinds of alternative stuff for you to read about 911, because I don't really see any big payoff in doing so. What difference would it make? Would it be an incredible triumph my ego could bask in for the next 10 years if you changed your mind? (heh! I don't think so.) You're just one person, after all, and if I did persuade you....then what? I accept that there are people who don't believe what I believe. It doesn't make them "wrong" or "evil", it just makes them different, that's all. And life will always be like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:38 AM

Little Hawk - I am only one person, but you did not post your thoughts just to me. You posted on a public forum for all the world to see. If you can't back up your comments, I understand. If you do not wish to further the discussion and simply back down and say that you don't have the time or motivation, I understand that too.

As for your semantics arguement about "consipiracy", I do see your point. Obviously somebody planned it, and they were not alone. There was a conspiracy. It just has not been proven, or seriously argued that the U.S. government was involved in that planning. I do believe the government was negligent and it led to the action, but that is another "theory".   The term "conspiracy theory" does not intend to discredit serious research and fact finding. I think you are taking it too personal.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:32 AM

Re the Galileo example (Little Hawk):

To be comparable to Galileo you need not only to be laughed at (by some) but also to be right.

How many Galileo's are there to 100,000 people who are laughed at and not believed by a large majority and are wrong after all?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:48 AM

LH ... Conspiracy Theory (I was not referring to the word 'conspiracy')... Conspiracy theories often defy an official or dominant understanding of events, and proponents sometimes substitute zeal for logic.

There are those (and yes intelligent people) who believe the the towers were brought down on 09/11/2001 by a well organized group of people from the middle east who were inspired to perform these violent acts by their anger with and revenge on the United States.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:53 AM

The links that Bill D posted on the other thread are definitive and convincing. I do NOT believe that the US government perpertrated this.

* It would take a lot more faith in people's ability to participate in and keep silent about it afterward than I have. Anyone who was able to blow the whistle would be famous for all time.

* The seqence of the various tragedies of that day are clearly traced on that link.

* Conspiracies are easy, and pander to the worst instincts of us all. In addition, there are people in this world for whom it is fun to manipulate a populace.

* It is up to the conspiracy theorists to answer and account for all the anomolies that don't fit AT ALL into their theories.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:02 PM

Why, thank you, Ebbie....glad to see someone read them! *grin*..

(what I have been TRYING to say all along is that explanations such as in those links are the sort we should 'normally' expect when confronted with strange events like confused broadcasters and molten metal in basements. It is only when we have folks whose entire mindset is aimed toward FINDING something more sinister than the already unhappy situation that we get these "shooting from the hip" theorists tossing out wild claims and daring others to refute them.)

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:25 PM

"* Conspiracies are easy, and pander to the worst instincts of us all. In addition, there are people in this world for whom it is fun to manipulate a populace."

Thank you for posting that Ebbie.

Many of the world's most violent acts of humanity against humanity have been the results of 'conspiracy theories"

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:30 PM

'Many of the world's most violent acts of humanity against humanity have been the results of 'conspiracy theories"'

Yep. And many of the world's most violent acts of humanity have been the results of conspiracies.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:33 PM

Peace ... I apologize for straying off the topic of the thread.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:34 PM

and there we have 2 true statements....neither of which actually supports any specific claims....

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:35 PM

Conspiracy against Libby

He was found guilty on 4 of 5 charges.

conspiracy theory 1
Basicly he is going to white collar prison for protecting his boss.

conspiracy theory 2
Rush Limbaugh says that "what we have here is a criminalization of politics. IF Ronald Reagan could say he didn't remember, why can't Libby?

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:36 PM

(lest anyone think there is a conspiracy to silence me...I am just off to do woodworking now...*grin*)

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:36 PM

Cosmic conspiracy
Asteroids and comets could hit the Earth. Has anyone ever seen this happen? case closed.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM

Conspiracy theory

Why did Syria rattle its sabres and say that they have small pox weapons that they will use if the US should invade Iran.
(maybe they got Saddam's cache of weapons.)

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:38 PM

sIx: We go back too far for there ever to be any need of apologies between us. We've been friends for years, and nothing we say on this site is gonna change that.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: bubblyrat
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:42 PM

Well ,what if it really was a "conspiracy" , and the whole thing was planned and expedited by the US government ?? How are you going to PROVE it ?? What are you planning to DO about ?? What other theories have you got ?? Next ,you"ll be saying that the US government   knew about the Japanese fleet approaching Pearl Harbour, but held back the information,as they wanted an excuse to enter the war, in order to prevent the murder of any more Jews in Germany . Well,it"s POSSIBLE ,isn"t it ?? Like the British Government, who deliberately carried out the murder of Lord Mountbatten, in order to discredit the IRA, and then murdered Princess Diana because they didn"t like her boyfriend"s dad ?? And then discovered fairies at the bottom of the garden ??

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:43 PM

Borat is the father of Cheney's grandchild.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:02 PM

Monsanto Used Sick People Like Lab Rats In GM Trials

NRC used orphanages and GIs for radiation experiments

Electronic voting can be manipulated.

There have been over 100 atmospheric nuclear tests.
20 of which were done in near orbital space.

There are insecticides in your breakfast cereal.

George W's IQ is over 100.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:15 PM

And there are bugs crawling in your eyelashes, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:17 PM

Conspiracy theory
4 out of 5 dentists prefer Crest

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:39 PM

Ancient structure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWkGTJEK0Mc&mode=related&search=

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:50 PM

And that would not be photo-shopped, NG?

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: 3refs
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 02:04 PM

"Rush Limbaugh says that "what we have here is a criminalization of politics. IF Ronald Reagan could say he didn't remember, why can't Libby?"

Because they have photographic proof that Ronny was asleep at the wheel on more than one occasion.

I forgot! Pictures can be doctored.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 03:06 PM

If the film is doctored, it is beyond my expertise.
I wouldn't know where to begin

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 04:38 PM

I sat and watched a lot of that 'live'....I musta missed the 'alien structure' and commentary

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:11 PM

"How do you define the word "conspiracy"?"

Australian Law defines it as several people acting together (against the law) to produce an outcome detrimental to someone - these 'conspirators' do not even have to be in contact with each other, physically, or by any other communication means.

Case law.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:14 PM

bubblyrat, the USA high command DID know that a Japanese attack was imminent. They fully expected a wide-ranging Japanese attack to commence at any time after the beginning of Dec '41. They were nervously waiting for it. They had been tracking the Japanese carriers as best they could (by monitoring radio transmissions) and were perturbed by a sustained period of silence in those transmissions for a couple of weeks prior to Dec 7, suggesting strongly that the Japanese were commencing setting up a long range attack and attempting to avoid detection of same through radio silence.

Roosevelt DID want a war with Japan, and he made sure to get one by cutting off their overseas sources of oil and steel earlier in 1941 by a trade embargo. War was inevitable after that, and Roosevelt knew it.

Whether they knew Pearl Harbor would be hit is hard to say. They may have underestimated Japanese capability to launch a serious raid at that distance from their home bases. They certainly expected the Japanese to hit Clark Field (in the Phillipines) and invade the Phillipine Islands. They may or may not have expected them to hit Pearl...by "they", I mean FDR and the top brass.

I'd give it a 50/50 chance that they knew a raid was coming shortly on Pearl...but even if they did, I doubt they had the slightest notion just how effective and deadly the Japanese attack would be. They were accustomed to thinking of the Japanese forces as far inferior to those of the USA or Britain. They were in for a big surprise in that regard. The Japanese were far and away the MOST effective navy and naval air force in the world in 1941. They were superbly trained, experienced from years of fighting in China, and equipped with the finest naval aircraft squadrons in the world.

Roosevelt knew war was coming in late '41. He may have known an attack on Pearl was coming. But he did not know how competitive the Japanese war machine was.

In the end it didn't matter. The USA had the industrial strength to overwhelm both Japan AND Germany in the long run, and Roosevelt knew it. Therefore he arranged to get in the war by provoking Japan with his trade embargo. I'd have to say that it was a smart decision on FDR's part...and a most unfortunate and tragic decision on the part of the Japanese...but it was inevitable, considering their national character. "They preferred to die fighting than live on their knees..." to quote the old phrase.

So, did Roosevelt conspire to get the USA in a war with Japan...and in short order from there, with Germany? You bet he did. ;-) And like I say, probably a smart move on his part. Hitler fell for it like a lead balloon, and conveniently declared war on the USA, saving FDR the trouble of having to convince Congress to declare war on Germany first (which could have taken some time to arrange, given that Germany had not yet attacked the USA).

Roosevelt was clever. Bush's wars, however, I do not call a smart move. I think they rank among the dumbest moves ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:15 PM

Now we have the definition of 'conspiracy' and 'conspiracy theory' established ... let the posts continue ................

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:18 PM

Thanks for the history refresh LH ... I remember all that rhetoric in my grade 10 history.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:19 PM

I should have added that it is the 'outcome' as interpreted by The Law that establishes a conspiracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:29 PM

That Australian definition sounds like a pretty good one to me, Foolestroupe. Yes, we all assume that a "conspiracy" implies results that are detrimental to someone, and also illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:31 PM

The Canadian legal definition of Conspiracy ...

Conspiracy: A criminal offence that is complete whenever two or more persons (other than a husband and wife) agree to do something that is unlawful, or something that is lawful by unlawful means.

So ... are we playing Australian rules or what?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:37 PM

"(other than a husband and wife)"

So, wot's the odds Bush and Cheney tie the knot?

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM

Number 6, I recall Grade 10 history in New York State. I do not recall ever being offered a hint that Roosevelt made moves which might have been intended to provoke Japan into launching a war. All I remember was lots of emphasis on the "day of infamy" aspect, the "sneak attack", the cruelty and bestiality of the Japanese, and stuff like that.

I mean, it was as if they were still trying to get us schoolkids mad enough to enlist right away and go off to Asia and kill "slant-eyed, bucktoothed little maniacs" for America....and that was a whole generation later, after the fact.

How long does hatred for another people have to be maintained in a "free society"? And what for? What good could it possibly do?

Would it serve to expiate guilt for having dropped atomic bombs on 2 cities, and incinerating a few others with conventional bombing? I wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM

That's the issue peace ... do we go for the Australian rules?

I think the Canadian definition would just make things to complicated if we apply them to this thread.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:59 PM

LH ... to bad you went to an American High school .. I do remember my grade 10 history and the mention of the of the Americans forcing the Japanese with various embargos to tempt them into hostile aggression.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:04 PM

"do we go for the Australian rules?"

Aussie Rules is getting popular in the USA

(Our friends from the Great White North (Canada) have challenged us (USA) to a junior Aussie Rules match to be held in Vancouver, BC, in the summer of '07. ...)

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:31 PM

The latin derivation of the word conspiracy is "to breathe together"

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST,9q4ruj f j pvu u
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:24 PM

Some of the folks you're talking to are from the "greatest generation" in the U.S., Little Hawk. Those old hogs aren't going to lift a lip against the government because it might endanger their pensions. Kudos for trying to educate them, though.

I need to go back and find my categorization effort...the thing I was doing on the issue of denial. The people supporting the boxcutter Jihad myth are a pretty fascinating group. The ones who aren't govt operatives, that is.

I just heard part of an interview, and the next big slap in the face of the govt's 9/11 lie may involve a retiring Northwest airline pilot. Says he has evidence of a missile guidance system in Boeing's planes. A quick search shows this on the system, known as the QRS-11. The thing definitely exists, and Boeing paid fines for using the dangerous system. A Boeing spokesman said:

"We have not resolved QRS-11 [a gyrochip Boeing exported inside some of its commercial jets without an export license between 2000 and 2003], which is a BCA issue. But the other four, we have paid a total of $50 million in penalties, we've had three consent decrees and several special compliance officers...."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002772424_boeingtranscript31.html

Some stuff about this on infowars.com's page today. Then, oddly, this story appeared in a U.K. paper 3 days ago:

New autopilot will make another 9/11 impossible

Scientists at aircraft giant Boeing are testing the tamper-proof autopilot system which uses state-of-the-art computer and satellite technology.

It will be activated by the pilot flicking a simple switch or by pressure sensors fitted to the cockpit door that will respond to any excessive force as terrorists try to break into the flight deck.

Once triggered, no one on board will be able to deactivate the system. Currently, all autopilots are manually switched on and off at the discretion of pilots....

The pilot being interviewed said this system most likely uses the QRS-11, and that's what took over control of the planes on 9/11.

The "official version" of 9/11 is dead. Decapitated, drawn and quartered. Yet some people think it's still walking around. All you can do is repeat the obvious and add more grains of sand to the scale as they appear.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:30 PM

I gotta ask this: What does 9q4ruj f j pvu u mean? And how does he/she remember to type it the same way every time?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:34 PM

Hmmm. Well, that's interesting. The technology certainly exists to fly planes automatically wherever you want to fly them, and crash them too, if you want to. Only question is, was it involved at all in 911?

Number 6 - Yeah, I would've loved to have been in school in Canada instead at the time, I can assure you. ;-) I was in a small and spectacularly rightwing town in upstate New York. "Liberals" were definitely an endangered species around there...in fact, they were almost unheard of. Rural New York State is a very different world from New York City in that respect. I moved back to Canada in '69, after finishing high school.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: GUEST,9q4ruj f j pvu u
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:47 PM

The name came to me in a sneeze. Now I use my great powers of copy and paste to summon it.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:01 PM

WHAT DOES KATRINA RELIEF AND WALTER REED HAVE IN COMMON?

The same private firm hired by FEMA to deliver life saving water and ice to NEw Orleans (3 weeks late) is the very same firm that the Defense Dept. outsourced the care and maintenence of Walter Reed with less than 100 private employees which replaced 400 - 500 experienced goverment workers.

The company's name, I A P Worldwide Services.
http://www.iapws.com/who/heritage.aspx

What I have not been able to find out yet is if they are a subsidery of Kellog Brown and Root / Halliburton.

But they smell the same so far. http://www.iapws.com/who/heritage.aspx

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:06 PM

"The letter said Walter Reed also awarded a five-year, $120-million contract to IAP Worldwide Services, which is run by Al Neffgen, a former senior Halliburton official."

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:13 PM

"IAP is owned by Cerberus Capital Management, a New York hedge fund chaired by John W. Snow, the former Treasury secretary [under George W Bush]. The company specializes in global operations and logistics, facilities management, and professional and technical services. Last year, IAP acquired Johnson Controls World Services, a longtime federal contractor."

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:22 PM

Interesting to note that

1) Cerberus is the dog that guards the gates of Hell
2) Cerberus owns Bushmaster Firearms

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:23 PM

Uh-huh. Think: "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" - John Perkins

The job of an economic hit man is not to improve society or spread freedom. It is to land lucrative contracts for major corporations and enlarge their profits.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:24 PM

Man, you are good.

Not even MSNBC could dig up the root faster than you.

Besides being a teacher , were you also a journalist?

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:27 PM

"> March 1, 2007
U.S. Navy Reaffirms Global Contingency Construction Contract Award to IAP, URS

> February 1, 2007
Retired Marine Corps Gen. Michael W. Hagee Appointed to IAP Board of Directors

> January 17, 2007
IAP Selected to Continue Supplying Emergency Ice Nationwide

> January 11, 2007
IAP Subsidiary Awarded U.K. Prison Contract

> January 5, 2007
Edward R. Hamm Promoted to IAP Senior Vice President, Facilities Management

> January 5, 2007
G3 Systems Awarded Contract to Provide Medical Facilities for Afghanistan Airfield

> December 22, 2006
IAP to Partner with CACI to Provide Logistics Support to U.S. Army

> December 21, 2006
G3 Systems Opens New Integration Facility

> December 14, 2006
Department of Defense Renews IAP Contract to Manage the Defense Visual Information Center

> December 13, 2006
State of Florida Awards IAP Contract to Provide Emergency Power for Special Needs Shelters"

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:30 PM

Selected capabilities: [of I A P]

Base camp facilities and life support
Air traffic control
Power generation
Transportation and heavy lift
Facilities management
Program management
Engineering services
Disaster relief and cleanup
Procurement
Infrastructure reconstruction
Contingency planning
Augment existing workforces
Logistics planning
HVAC systems
Food and custodial services


Their Air Traffic Control is of interest to me. Also that they now have their hands in the IRS where they do some contract work. I'd wonder if then they have access to the IRS database. Nice access if ya know what I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:39 PM

Bush appointed Dole and Shalale to investigate the Walter Reed story.
I think the thing to do is to send a certified letter with return recipt to both Bob Dole and Shalale that contains this information, particularly the loose (good ol boy) connection to Halliburton, so that when the Dole report comes out I will have proof that he recieved information that he may neglect to mention in his final report.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:45 PM

NB

""IAP is proud to have the opportunity to partner with CACI on FIRST," said Al Neffgen, IAP CEO. "FIRST requires project discipline and understanding of the Army's mission in a complex and changing environment to provide services in a disciplined and responsible fashion. IAP has a strong record of success providing logistical support for the Army and the warfighter, and we look forward to building on that success."" from http://www.iapws.com/Newsroom/Newsroom_details.aspx?id=63


": Does CACI currently provide interrogation services to the U.S. military in Iraq or at any other location such as Guantanamo Bay or Afghanistan?
: CACI does not currently provide interrogation services any where in the world, and it has never provided interrogators for work at Guantanamo or in Afghanistan. Civilian interrogators employed by other private companies have been involved in interrogation at Guantanamo and in Afghanistan, but Iraq is the only place where CACI employees ever provided interrogation services." from http://www.caci.com/iraq_faqs.shtml

Nice to know who sleeps with whom. Business goes on as usual . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:47 PM

http://www.iapws.com/Newsroom/Newsroom_details.aspx?id=63

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:52 PM

Don, it's no secret. They openly publish this stuff on the www. That's how brazen they are and how secure they feel. Hell, IAP's value now is on the order of $16,000,000,000. They are a company that's all over the place. CACI does work for the Dept of Homeland Sec. These fuckers have been in bed with each other for years. The only people capable of dealing with them for any wrongs they may have done are the Senate and House. As an aside, Dan Quayle is on the Board of IAP.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:57 PM

16 billion and what do ya get
another vet sicker and deeper in debt.

Tell St. Peter when I gotta go
I owe my soul to the company store.



Neo cons have billion$ of reasons to destroy America and the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:59 PM

Bt the way, some pages will undoubtedly vanish as this story gets legs.

I have seen the White House web pages vanish while browsing.

saving offline is a good idea incases such as these.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: number 6
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:03 PM

Donuel ... You trying to out perform Dennis Kucinich

The soul man Dennis

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:10 PM

"Currently, Dan Quayle is Chairman of Cerberus Global Investments, LLC (Cerberus), President of Quayle & Associates, and serves on the boards of directors of IAP Worldewide Services, Inc., K2, Inc and Aozora Bank, Ltd in Tokyo ."

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:15 PM

http://www.unbossed.net/index.php?itemid=1355

Keep a record of that link. These folks have done their homework.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:17 PM

Please note:

Look closely and you will see some faint dotted lines under various words (look at 'discussed here' in the first paragraph). Click them, because they link to further info.

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:33 PM

"The dismal state of some facilities at Walter Reed cannot be directly attributed to poor performance by a contractor. After all, it has been only a few months since a politically connected firm called IAP Worldwide Services started taking over many of the management functions at the medical center.

Yet a battle over whether to outsource those functions has been going on since early 2000, when the Army commenced a cost-comparison study of support services at the medical center. Such studies—which were being promoted by the Clinton administration's "reinventing government" initiative led by Vice President Al Gore—forced groups of federal workers to compete with potential contractors to figure out which could perform a given function more efficiently."

from http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2007/03/06/outsourcing_walter_reed.php

Subject: RE: BS: Conspiracy: Thread for those who want it
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 07:24 AM

"(QRS-11 autopilot) Once triggered, no one on board will be able to deactivate the system."


So... since auto landings aren't yet reliable (read always able to walk away from - if they were, then the military would have them in every plane, especially for carrier based aircraft!) the plane is pointing somewhere - not always the final destination, since commercial airliners are 'handed off' from one controller to another at differing heights and headings to stop them all flying into each other! - then suddenly the hostess carrying the tea tray to the pilot stumbles against the cockpit door, and BOING! nobody can control where it is going...

F*CK!

This is somehow desirable, and 'safer'

????!!!!